Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Z-to answer your question-a 3 game stent at the height of playoff crunch IS an unfair way to judge a rookie QB who has 1 damn week working with the 1's. I would have preferred Hoyer finish out the season and let them start from day one next pre-season (whomever they thought was best).
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
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Everybody knows I'm a Johnny fan, I thought Cleveland made a great move in drafting him. Its only been one game, so I still hold onto hope that he will improve and become the Johnny I'm used to seeing.
But holy hell, he looked terrible. Whatever the reason, he just sucked. For anyone to be making excuses or blaming coaches or other players is dumb.
I think the Browns are loaded with talent, albeit many injured, and with an above-average qb, could be contenders. I hope Johnny is that guy, but Sunday was horrible. No excuses, just play better or become another tebow.
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Z-to answer your question-a 3 game stent at the height of playoff crunch IS an unfair way to judge a rookie QB who has 1 damn week working with the 1's. I would have preferred Hoyer finish out the season and let them start from day one next pre-season (whomever they thought was best).
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
Yeah...because you're not guilty of pre-judging?
Holy feck!!!
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Z-to answer your question-a 3 game stent at the height of playoff crunch IS an unfair way to judge a rookie QB who has 1 damn week working with the 1's. I would have preferred Hoyer finish out the season and let them start from day one next pre-season (whomever they thought was best).
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
Z-to answer your question-a 3 game stent at the height of playoff crunch IS an unfair way to judge a rookie QB who has 1 damn week working with the 1's. I would have preferred Hoyer finish out the season and let them start from day one next pre-season (whomever they thought was best).
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
I don't get it. He's a member of the team. He was the backup and he got promoted to starter. We shouldn't have played him, because it's not fair to him?
I think what you are really saying is that nobody should judge him until he has everything lined up for him, has a full pre-season as the starter and then starts games as the starter.
That's gay. Johnny Manziel would think that's gay. Johnny Manziel thinks you're gay.
You man up and do your best, and if you get judged harshly, so be it, you get better and prove everybody wrong.
Hey, if he comes out Sunday, looking like a pro, and we win these last two games, or win one and play well in the other, everyone will be happy to see him return next year as the presumed starter and then he'll get everybody healthy, more weapons, start the season, and we can all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" before his first start next year just so everybody feels good about everything and nobody is being judged harshly.
In the meantime we have a game to win this Sunday, so let's hope elfboy has a gameplan he can execute and goes out and does it. He's in the Big Boy league now ... You either bring it, or your clock starts ticking and the criticism only gets louder. Time for him to show us he can win football games. Let's see if he can beat a 5-8-1 team with a 7-7 team.
Zombo
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Everybody knows I'm a Johnny fan, I thought Cleveland made a great move in drafting him. Its only been one game, so I still hold onto hope that he will improve and become the Johnny I'm used to seeing.
But holy hell, he looked terrible. Whatever the reason, he just sucked. For anyone to be making excuses or blaming coaches or other players is dumb.
I think the Browns are loaded with talent, albeit many injured, and with an above-average qb, could be contenders. I hope Johnny is that guy, but Sunday was horrible. No excuses, just play better or become another tebow.
Everybody knows I'm a Johnny fan, I thought Cleveland made a great move in drafting him. Its only been one game, so I still hold onto hope that he will improve and become the Johnny I'm used to seeing.
But holy hell, he looked terrible. Whatever the reason, he just sucked. For anyone to be making excuses or blaming coaches or other players is dumb.
I think the Browns are loaded with talent, albeit many injured, and with an above-average qb, could be contenders. I hope Johnny is that guy, but Sunday was horrible. No excuses, just play better or become another tebow.
Stage 3: Acceptance?
Atta boy, he sucked. Hoping he looks better this week, albeit doubtful.
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You want me to be objective. Then it's time you look in the mirror and try exactly the same.
Damn near all of us were in agreement that it was time to see what Manziel had and for him to start. We saw enough of a spark in the Buffalo game to be excited about what he could bring to the table. We had been listening to all of these A&M honks (not necessarily you, but numerous other) telling us all season that the team would have won more games if only Johnny football was the QB.
He got his chance in the spotlight and took a giant shit in the middle of the field with the spotlight shining down on him. The problem this week has been the "fanboys" and the excuses and saying the most idiotic things like "he will get 200 starts for the Browns" and he's clearly the starter next year no matter what happens the rest of the season. It's the homos who are really only here because Manziel got drafted by the Browns that are making a lot of the people on this board hate the kid. I think all of understand that it's better for the Browns long term if Manziel is the answer at QB. Just like we hoped that Hoyer was the answer at QB. Just like we hoped that Weeden was the answer and McCoy and Delhomme and well..you get the picture.
He plays 2 more games like he did this past Sunday, he's not guaranteed shit for next season, even being in the league. There were plenty of analysts and scouts predraft saying that he didn't have what it takes in the NFL. There were plenty who also said he would be a superstar like Russell Wilson. The jury is still out but it certainly doesn't look very promising right now after the first game.
It's the homos who are really only here because Manziel got drafted by the Browns that are making a lot of the people on this board hate the kid.
Loved and could have written your post save the one sentence above.
While his fans have irritated me to no end, they have never made me hate "the kid". Not even starting from where I did, i.e., not wanting to draft him.
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
You act as if none of us ever watched JM at A&M...
You act as if no one who ever watched him play at A&M ever came away with an opinion different from you...
Neither is true.
Everybody knows I'm a Johnny fan, I thought Cleveland made a great move in drafting him. Its only been one game, so I still hold onto hope that he will improve and become the Johnny I'm used to seeing.
But holy hell, he looked terrible. Whatever the reason, he just sucked. For anyone to be making excuses or blaming coaches or other players is dumb.
I think the Browns are loaded with talent, albeit many injured, and with an above-average qb, could be contenders. I hope Johnny is that guy, but Sunday was horrible. No excuses, just play better or become another tebow.
Turn in your fanboy-card.
Go Browns...
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Everybody knows I'm a Johnny fan, I thought Cleveland made a great move in drafting him. Its only been one game, so I still hold onto hope that he will improve and become the Johnny I'm used to seeing.
But holy hell, he looked terrible. Whatever the reason, he just sucked. For anyone to be making excuses or blaming coaches or other players is dumb.
I think the Browns are loaded with talent, albeit many injured, and with an above-average qb, could be contenders. I hope Johnny is that guy, but Sunday was horrible. No excuses, just play better or become another tebow.
Stage 3: Acceptance?
Atta boy, he sucked. Hoping he looks better this week, albeit doubtful.
Stage 3: Acceptance?
Atta boy, he sucked. Hoping he looks better this week, albeit doubtful.
Have to accept it, it happened. I won't be ashamed if I was wrong about him, but I m not giving up. He's got some time to prove he's capable.
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Have to accept it, it happened. I won't be ashamed if I was wrong about him, but I m not giving up. He's got some time to prove he's capable.
According to Pettine, he has 2 weeks to prove himself
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Hate being embarresed by those pumpkin-colored, non-original, front-running fags.
With that said, here are the facts :
1) Johnny wasnt ready. Was that his fault or the teams ? Dont care - doesnt matter...this is the NFL, excuses are for the weak.
2) Our O-line talent/depth/skill level cant support the read-option...past 3 games have exposed this group...this is a major issue.
3) Pettine and the coaching staff layed a major egg in preparing for our in-state rival...unexcusable on all fronts.
4) This past game ranks #2 behind the return game of 1999---- major losses in huge moments.
Where to go from here ? Win or lose - where in the middle of the pack in next years draft. Good news, we have 2 picks...bad news, we could be in another major "reset" with the QB position. If we are going to run Shanahans crap, we had better sign RG3 (assuming Johhny can settle down and stop soiling himself)...draft monster / athletic OL, draft or FA nasty NT, find new special teams coach, and add depth at WR.
most important... N O M O R E R E G I M E C H A N G E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 7 - 7 dont do it Jimmy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bermeck (this x-buffalo bills staff isnt horrible, but have not impressed yet... guess papa Pettine had never seen the counter trey)
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Z-to answer your question-a 3 game stent at the height of playoff crunch IS an unfair way to judge a rookie QB who has 1 damn week working with the 1's. I would have preferred Hoyer finish out the season and let them start from day one next pre-season (whomever they thought was best).
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
Z-to answer your question-a 3 game stent at the height of playoff crunch IS an unfair way to judge a rookie QB who has 1 damn week working with the 1's. I would have preferred Hoyer finish out the season and let them start from day one next pre-season (whomever they thought was best).
Funny thing is most either pre-judged based on nothing or judged based on 1 start. Yeah, that's fair!
The problem was- Hoyer had regressed so badly Pettine almost didn't have a choice but to switch to Manziel- if he thought there was a prayer the Browns had a shot at the playoffs this year- because we sure weren't getting there the way Brian was playing. It was certainly more fair to Johnny to put him out there week 13, after he had a chance to adjust to the pro game- than to start him week one, have him put up a performance like that, and totally deflate the season before it even had a chance to start.
BTW, None of the top quarterbacks this year pre draft were judged on nothing on this Board. They were all- Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Manziel, Garrapolo- extensively debated. Including plenty of film clips, game review, and input from people who had seen them play- plus input from guys blogs who actually rate college prospects for a living. So besides the off-field crap- which was a big negative in my book, I saw Manziel do plenty of stuff at A&M I was 90% certain wouldn't fly in the NFL. Don't forget more than one prognosticator had JFF rated as a third round prospect. What I don't like is those same guys screaming from the rooftops "see I was right about him" after one game. I do wish we had kept Stockton around long enough to be able to fry his ass after that debacle of a performance. You've been around long enough to realize nothing gets the Mods pissed off faster than a Grade A smart ass who belittles everyone who doesn't agree with him. And I do apologize if you think some of the guys here are singling you out with some anti-Manziel hatred. OTOH- us BROWNS fans have had to put up with the Hoyer is a bum Johnny is Da Bomb chant from some quarters- until last week. Instead of "DA BOMB" well, he just bombed. Hey Walter, what ya thinkin' now? I'm hoping Johnny plays 1,000% better this week. The last thing us oldsters want to see is yet another rinse, wash, repeat cycle at the quarterback position.
Zombo said:
I don't get it. He's a member of the team. He was the backup and he got promoted to starter. We shouldn't have played him, because it's not fair to him?
I think what you are really saying is that nobody should judge him until he has everything lined up for him, has a full pre-season as the starter and then starts games as the starter.
You man up and do your best, and if you get judged harshly, so be it, you get better and prove everybody wrong.
Hey, if he comes out Sunday, looking like a pro, and we win these last two games, or win one and play well in the other, everyone will be happy to see him return next year as the presumed starter and then he'll get everybody healthy, more weapons, start the season, and we can all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" before his first start next year just so everybody feels good about everything and nobody is being judged harshly.
In the meantime we have a game to win this Sunday, so let's hope elfboy has a gameplan he can execute and goes out and does it. He's in the Big Boy league now ... You either bring it, or your clock starts ticking and the criticism only gets louder. Time for him to show us he can win football games. Let's see if he can beat a 5-8-1 team with a 7-7 team.
Zombo
What Z said. This is the Big Boy league, we left the College rah-rah at the door. If Hoyer had gotten hurt, would it have been any different, if Manziel had been forced to start, and played equally poorly?
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You could also direct some anger towards the team management who decided to bench Hoyer and bring in Manziel? But the Hoyer haters can't do that. Its all on JFF.
Still don't think it was necessarily a bad choice to put manziel in. He got flack for doing it he would have gotten flack for not doing it. He's gonna play it out but I think we'll be more hopeful on manziel if he shows improvement against Carolina, and even more improvement against Baltimore.
Still don't think it was necessarily a bad choice to put manziel in. He got flack for doing it he would have gotten flack for not doing it. He's gonna play it out but I think we'll be more hopeful on manziel if he shows improvement against Carolina, and even more improvement against Baltimore.
Don't hold yer breath.
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You can have as little patience as you want. I doubt Johnny cares either way.
Signed,
Mrs. Manziel
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Signed,
Mrs. Manziel
Like Johnny would tie himself down to one woman. That's just another one that fell in love after he took them to alley behind the bar for 20 minutes.
Also, they haven't said anything about these tacos. I'm starting to think "Tacosman" doesn't even exist.
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Everybody knows I'm a Johnny fan, I thought Cleveland made a great move in drafting him. Its only been one game, so I still hold onto hope that he will improve and become the Johnny I'm used to seeing.
But holy hell, he looked terrible. Whatever the reason, he just sucked. For anyone to be making excuses or blaming coaches or other players is dumb.
I think the Browns are loaded with talent, albeit many injured, and with an above-average qb, could be contenders. I hope Johnny is that guy, but Sunday was horrible. No excuses, just play better or become another tebow.
Stage 3: Acceptance?
Atta boy, he sucked. Hoping he looks better this week, albeit doubtful.
Stage 3: Acceptance?
No... acceptance is the 5th and final stage.
2) Our O-line talent/depth/skill level cant support the read-option...past 3 games have exposed this group...this is a major issue.
O-line??? Only halfway through Cinci 2.0 and yet to see proper QB execution of the read.
The first attempt, that I believe ended up officially as a sack, had JM starring square at a closing DE, yet he pulled the ball from Crow's belly. All Crow could see was a gaping hole.
The second saw the decision to leave the ball with West come so late that the ball nearly ended on the ground (West's 8 yard gain).
The problem was- Hoyer had regressed so badly Pettine almost didn't have a choice but to switch to Manziel- if he thought there was a prayer the Browns had a shot at the playoffs this year- because we sure weren't getting there the way Brian was playing.
Correction: We thought we had a choice... turned out we did not.
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You could also direct some anger towards the team management who decided to bench Hoyer and bring in Manziel? But the Hoyer haters can't do that. Its all on JFF.
Still don't think it was necessarily a bad choice to put manziel in. He got flack for doing it he would have gotten flack for not doing it. He's gonna play it out but I think we'll be more hopeful on manziel if he shows improvement against Carolina, and even more improvement against Baltimore.
Still don't think it was necessarily a bad choice to put manziel in. He got flack for doing it he would have gotten flack for not doing it. He's gonna play it out but I think we'll be more hopeful on manziel if he shows improvement against Carolina, and even more improvement against Baltimore.
I agree with this sentiment entirely for several reasons. Hoyer's play has been on the decline as of late and before the season is over it was a good idea to at least evaluate how Johnny can do starting a game because lets face it, it doesn't look too likely that Hoyer is gona be your guy if he keeps playing the way he has and doesn't improve in this offense.
Also regardless of who started that game, it was an absolute crap show. Granted Johnny didn't help the situation at ALL, but I doubt Hoyer would have been able to make that game any better than it was.
Another thing to take into consideration is that you knew exactly who you have with Hoyer- with Johnny? You had no clue (well some clue but not in a real game situation). But with the way Hoyer has played recently, isn't it better to take a chance at having someone new in the pocket, especially when you spent a good deal of money and a high draft pick on him?
And as someone stated earlier, I do think that the Buffalo game got kind of over hyped. Yes, he drove down the field and ran the ball in. Good for him, and yes he looked good but you can't judge a QB on one drive in a game. Can you pick up some nuances of their playing style? Yes, but it doesn't tell you who they are when they get out there to START a football game.
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Our running game is non existent without Mack. I don't care who the QB is for the Browns. The O line has suffered and I don't understand why there are no backup centers in the league. We are not the only team who's O line has injuries and it seems there is a shortage of these guys.
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Our running game is non existent without Mack. I don't care who the QB is for the Browns. The O line has suffered and I don't understand why there are no backup centers in the league. We are not the only team who's O line has injuries and it seems there is a shortage of these guys.
I don't understand why there are no backup centers in the league. ....We are not the only team who's O line has injuries ..... it seems there is a shortage of these guys.
I think you just answered your own question(s)....
A shortage would be why it seems there are none....(ie: if there are none, then there's a shortage, right?)
And we are not the only team who's line has injuries...(so other teams also need something that is in short supply, making the supply line even shorter)...
And that basically would explain "why" there are no back ups....
So, a lot of teams(like us) choose to "teach" someone to play center(usually a guard).....we had Greco prepared as our "back up" until it became apparent we needed a full timer.....after failing with McDonald, there were no other centers available, so Seymour is getting some on the job training....
I think thats why the Browns were happy to pay a first for Mack and have used high picks on centers several times in my memory.....Mack, Everett, Baab, Rakoczy and Faine....all were 1st or 2nd rounders.....
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