Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Stability is key, but you have to recognize the clear misses in the change ups too. Shurmur was a bad decision and had to leave asap. Same with Banner and Lombardo. Mangini should've stayed and had more time, but Lerner screwed that up with Holmgren, who is another that you can't say should've stayed for the sake of stability. With Pettine and Farmer, now is the time to keep stability. Even if they struggle to win games for the next two+ years, as long as you see progress being made and improvement, no matter how small, stick wtih it. Might be five years yet until they make the playoffs (especially if the entire AFCN keeps up like this year). That sucks when fans are at wits end, but it's the only thing that hasn't been tried yet.
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Hey it's a little harder to argue that it was a good idea to shit can everybody you've mentioned unless things took a turn for the better afterwards. They didn't. Every rebuilding process sucked. Every new regime booted out the players that weren't their guys.
So far there's no reason to think any change has been for the better. Three more years and we might have a better understanding of the personnel at the top we have today.
WSS
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What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)
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My point is the time is now to keep things as intact as possible on key staff and FO. I hope they can keep away from the dreaded 4-12 / 5-11 seasons so judgement is easy. Biggest monkey on their back right now is, of course, the QB situation. Everything else I feel confident they will have a handle on, or will address the needs accordingly.
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What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)
What about Crennel? Should he have been given more time than the four years he had? With that 2007 season, the stability arguement would say yes.
I might have short term memory loss here when comparing, but I feel better about this staff more than any before since the '99 return. (For me, my opinion of Mangini's time here is hindsight.)[/quote
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4 years is okay. Then what happened? Superbowl? AFC championship?
WSS
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Other teams have taken longer than 4 years to do that. So you're saying Crennel was the one exception to the stability problems? His four years was long enough? That might be true. Then a comedy of errors in hiring happened...until now. IMO.
I don't know. Quite honestly I don't know much about how he hurt or didn't hurt the team. I'm just saying it seems to me that the Browns organization is more fickle then most successful organizations. And the quick trigger hasn't seemed to produce results. We tend to focus on a personality and it just hasn't worked out yet.Other teams have taken longer than 4 years to do that. So you're saying Crennel was the one exception to the stability problems? His four years was long enough? That might be true. Then a comedy of errors in hiring happened...until now. IMO.
All I can say is look at the results. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should replace the coaching staff every six quarters.
WSS
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Ive always been an advocate of make a decision and move on. Hate waffling and waiting on mediocrity....
If we are firing QB's and coaches too soon, why hasn't a single one got a similar job elsewhere?....not one single player or coach got picked up in a lateral move....
Every QB we cut is out of the league or a back up....
Every head coach we fired is out of the league or a position coach/coordinator....
I think that justifies the moves right there.
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And unfortunately it's that very kind of impatience that has kept the Browns in the toilet for over a decade.
WSS
Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
It is your wife's fault. My wife went to an A&M-Baylor game in Waco in 1985 (we lost). Did not go again until the Cotton Bowl against Tenn about 20 years later (lost and banned from any more games by our son). Then went to the A&M Baylor game in 2008 (ban was lifted) and we lost for the first time to them since that 1985 game. My son has now banned her for life and she is not allowed to watch games live either.
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Good point Mud. Crennel is still a good D coordinator, but not good HC material. But another question...those that go nowhere after their time in Cleveland, is some of that attributed to the fact no one wanted to give them a chance after the ineptitude they showed while here? Perception can be killer. I suppose the arguement can be made those that are great would rise above that.
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Or we could go with the ole "Cleveland ruined them" routine....
In the end, that'll probably be what they say about Johnny too
Or we could go with the ole "Cleveland ruined them" routine....
In the end, that'll probably be what they say about Johnny too
That's exactly what they'll say. It's going on in another thread right now, but it's true any QB would struggle with this Browns team of the second half of the season. The difference is we haven't seen a thing from Johnny that shows an NFL-ready QB that's struggling. We've seen a college kid QB not-NFL-ready that's REALLY struggling.
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I have no patience left for Johnny Manziel. I don't care how much he promises to work harder in the off season. I don't believe him. Why should I? He said all the right things about changing his off the field habits before the draft and did manage to at least keep his head down until he got drafted. Then he promptly went out and acted the fool all off season, showed up to camp unprepared and told everyone he was "gonna do" Johnny. He wasn't doing anything wrong and could do whatever he wanted in his own time. He has had 14 weeks this season to absorb everything Brian was doing to prepare every week. If he did any of that, then he just sucks and will never make it, or he wasn't paying nearly the attention he should have been. Why should we believe he will do anything different this off season? He's a circus clown, and an ass clown that has earned no trust from anyone in the organization, or any of us. I can't see what we could get out if him in trade, but I'd take whatever I could and cut ties. Allowing him another chance is what everyone has done for him all his life and he still don't get it and he won't until he suffers the consequences. If we can't trade him, I'd take the hit and release him. He's brought nothing positive to this team except ONE drive. Three or four minutes. All season. The rest has been drama and negative press. IMO, if this FO is going into next season HOPING he will do better, they're crazy.
West Side Troll?
@everlastingxxx said:
Stephen Jones (his son) has the old man under control. He is kindof the one secretly running the show.
Who knows, maybe Shaw will light it up this weekend.
If he gets a shot... yeah, maybe.
So Stephen, the rat bastard that talked Jerrah out of Johnny, the now the puppet master... got it.
I have no patience left for Johnny Manziel. I don't care how much he promises to work harder in the off season. I don't believe him.
You make me look like a fanboy...
Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have rings. Midget QB's can thrive in the right setting. Manziel might suck, but... at least give Johnny his chance to fail. Meaning more than a couple starts.
More starts? No... but I will give him training camp. Especially since it is now abundantly clear that the Staff had the QB evaluation right this entire season.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
West Side Troll?
@everlastingxxx said:
Stephen Jones (his son) has the old man under control. He is kindof the one secretly running the show.
Who knows, maybe Shaw will light it up this weekend.
If he gets a shot... yeah, maybe.
So Stephen, the rat bastard that talked Jerrah out of Johnny, the now the puppet master... got it.
I have no patience left for Johnny Manziel. I don't care how much he promises to work harder in the off season. I don't believe him.
You make me look like a fanboy...
Drew Brees and Russell Wilson have rings. Midget QB's can thrive in the right setting. Manziel might suck, but... at least give Johnny his chance to fail. Meaning more than a couple starts.
More starts? No... but I will give him training camp. Especially since it is now abundantly clear that the Staff had the QB evaluation right this entire season.
VesnaKociper said:
Be realistic, please. Do you honestly think Haslam is going to make an ass of himself by publicly admitting that Manziel........ his hand-picked "Barney Fife" was a mistake?
But if he knows it's a mistake, what does he have to gain by keeping him? Just prolonging the inevitable then, right?
More starts? No... but I will give him training camp. Especially since it is now abundantly clear that the Staff had the QB evaluation right this entire season.
Yes. At least we have that going for us, right? Lol. Unlike last year when Chud and company kept pushing Weeden on us over Hoyer.
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Troll?
Aww now you hurt my feelings.
Actually (even though it was a sarcastic, snotty, facetious and possibly even troll like post) I don't think it fell beneath the standards set by the other shit posts in the thread.
No need to take it personally.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
If the Browns could get ANYTHING for him they have to make the trade asap. Drafting Johnny will go down as one of the worst decisions of all time and the sooner the Browns can move on the better.
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If the Browns could get ANYTHING for him they have to make the trade asap. Drafting Johnny will go down as one of the worst decisions of all time and the sooner the Browns can move on the better.
If the Browns could get ANYTHING for him they have to make the trade asap.
Yea, I'm sure someone in the front office has a car that needs a quart of oil
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Please accept my apologies for single handedly making our team losers since 1999. I ididn't know what I was doing.....I always thought it was my wife's fault. Whenever I was watching a game, and she walked into the room, the Browns would immediately play bad.
It is your wife's fault. My wife went to an A&M-Baylor game in Waco in 1985 (we lost). Did not go again until the Cotton Bowl against Tenn about 20 years later (lost and banned from any more games by our son). Then went to the A&M Baylor game in 2008 (ban was lifted) and we lost for the first time to them since that 1985 game. My son has now banned her for life and she is not allowed to watch games live either.
:lol:It is your wife's fault. My wife went to an A&M-Baylor game in Waco in 1985 (we lost). Did not go again until the Cotton Bowl against Tenn about 20 years later (lost and banned from any more games by our son). Then went to the A&M Baylor game in 2008 (ban was lifted) and we lost for the first time to them since that 1985 game. My son has now banned her for life and she is not allowed to watch games live either.
:lol:I knew it!!
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Are we talking about pulling the trigger? Cutting somebody after six quarters? Seems like there is an agenda underway. On the other hand in the same argument you tell me you have seen some greatness, or at least goodness, in brian.
I haven't seen what I would call flashes of greatness I've seen flashes of good enough to play in the NFL. I've also seen games we've won playing around his limitations. But regardless of the flashes he's been in the league for what 5 or 6 years already?
Look I understand the attitude, we all just want to shit can people if we don't like them personally and that's the feeling I get around here.
WSS
Are we talking about pulling the trigger? Cutting somebody after six quarters? Seems like there is an agenda underway. On the other hand in the same argument you tell me you have seen some greatness, or at least goodness, in brian.
I haven't seen what I would call flashes of greatness I've seen flashes of good enough to play in the NFL. I've also seen games we've won playing around his limitations. But regardless of the flashes he's been in the league for what 5 or 6 years already?
Look I understand the attitude, we all just want to shit can people if we don't like them personally and that's the feeling I get around here.
WSS
Certainly, I have seen much more positive in Hoyer than Manziel, but I've seen Hoyer for a lot more than 6 quarters. My only agenda is to see the Browns win more than they lose at some point. How we acheive that is not really that important to me. Whether it's with Manziel. Hoyer, Shaw, or you at qb. I don't expect Manziel to be cut after 6 quarters....and I wouldn't hope for that. Starting immediately after this season, though, if we don't hear about Johnny Football dedicating the off season to improving, and studying to become a real NFL qb, well... then I fully expect him to become a casualty of the competition, and lose his job. I don't expect Hoyer to be here, but there will be another draftee or veteran to pressure Manziel. I don't have any personal dislike for the guy. He's 22 years old.....holy crap....when I was 22, I didn't even have a job. No one could tell me anything, because I already knew everything. I had been drafted, and returned, collected checks from the government to go to college, but really spent most of my time hitch hiking to California and back.....many times. So...I don't hate him because he is immature...I wrote the book on how to be immature. But...the nature of his job...if he decides to keep it, will mean a lot of hard work and dedication. If he puts the effort in, maybe he can still be successful. I's a long shot, but if he's our qb, I'm rooting for him.
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