Jonathan Paul Manziel

Mudfly

@westside-steve said:

Mud as you know I was talking to tour who just call me out for being repetitive. So I was tossing some shit back his way. Speaking of repetitive I'm too lazy to do the search but I wonder how many times the phrase "liar and alcoholic" has been repeated?

WSS

I would agree that its been said a lot of times and is probably inappropriate and a bit "over the top" at this stage....but at least I understand where its' coming from.....

Cant say the same for all those who are defending him....as I dont see how you can't see that he's been completely immature and irresponsible to this point.....I would like someone to give me one great big positive about JFF from this past season....just ONE

So...it boils down to some people going too far to discredit him and some people going just as far to protect him....there's a middle ground somewhere that just see's it for what it is....and, right now, it doesn't look good....why is that so hard to admit???

TexasAg1969

@diehardbrownsfan said:
He should be kneeling on Rice outside of the Browns training camp all day. it is about 18 degrees here now. He needs to suffer some.

Nah, he needs to be doing this down the Halls of Berea.

Serenity Now!

Westside Steve

Mud it's impossible to admit because of the mere fact that the three men I mention who actually have insight into this situation and the power to do whatever they wish don't seem to agree with the guys on this board who exhibit the over-the-top hatred. If they did they have cut the guy regardless of financial consequences during halftime of the Cincinnati loss.

If the rabid anti Jonny people here are correct he will never play another down in the NFL.

Plus there are a very few people on this board who think the kid has a chance to be a successful NFL quarterback. And I guarantee nothing.

WSS

Tour2ma

@westside-steve said:
Mud as you know I was talking to tour who just call me out for being repetitive. So I was tossing some shit back his way.

And I have just arrived at a new low where Johnny is concerned. To me the continued contrast is pertinent.

So brace yourself, Steve, as I fear Johnny, and my opinion of him, have yet to bottom out.

Zombo

Manziel will be back and will compete for the starting job next year with a veteran.

I don't hate him, just disappointed in how he handled his first year as Cleveland Brown.

Really disappointed.

But he's got a chance to come back and play well and win us all over.

I'm rooting that he does so, because he's a Cleveland Brown.

I think a lot of us want to see him take the responsibility of being the Browns QB more seriously, and for the next 8 months all we have to judge him by is media reports, social media and whatever he puts out there himself, because we're not going to watch him play.

So those that hate him now will hate him for another 8 months, those that are disappointed but hopeful, like me, have to wait 8 months to get a real feel, and those, I mean "he", that still believes in him will believe in him for another 8 months.

All I want to see in the offseason regarding Manziel is spending time in Cleveland when he doesn't have to be in Cleveland.

Zombo

Canton Dawg

@westside-steve said:

If the rabid anti Jonny people here are correct he will never play another down in the NFL.

Plus there are a very few people on this board who think the kid has a chance to be a successful NFL quarterback. And I guarantee nothing.

WSS

I think JF's biggest obstacle in his NFL career is JF.

Unless he changes his piss poor work ethic, and lackadaisical approach to being an NFL caliber QB he's destined to fail.

I certainly hope he changes his demeanor during the off season and proves me wrong.

God knows the Browns don't need another 1st round bust.

NGgator60

Moving beyond the 7 quarters of professional football...

Quite simply, Johnny Manziel is losing the battle of public perception and that is why many fans are up in arms. As fans, we are at the mercy of whatever information the news outlets feed us and we've become almost conditioned to see, hear, and read the sensationalist mantra that drives user-clicks and ad sales. Tell me that Johnny is riding an inflatable swan while clutching a bottle of champagne and Joe Sixpack will bite, yet print an article detailing his car arriving before schedule every morning in Berea and he'll pass it over. Heck, at this point is has become a self-fullfilling prophecy for critics because anytime Manziel does enjoy himself the moment will instantly be captured and blown up via social media, without mention of any other athlete doing the same.

Let us remember that prior to arriving in Cleveland Manziel was renowned for having a terrific work-ethic exemplified by his tutelage under George Whitfield each summer in San Diego. Whereas a large portion of college athletes returned home or worked summer jobs, Manziel willingly sought out a well regarded QB guru and leveraged this relationship in his committment to get better. Are we to believe that this dedicated approach to the sport was disregarded once Johnny was selected by Cleveland? I think it would be foolish to jump to that conclusion at such a nascent point in Manziel's professional career.

Truth be told, I'd argue that we will glean little insight into Johnny's development as a football player this offseason through whatever is reflected in the tabloids or newspaper because there is no way to quantify improvement until we see him step onto a football field next year. We simply do not know what work, and the utility of that work, Manziel is putting in from 9-9 or whenever. Is Manziel more committed to the Browns by drinking in the privacy of his home rather than at a bar? The next time that we see Manziel in Vegas are we going to argue that he'd become a better football player if he instead was flipping burgers at a casual backyard BBQ? I would hope not (but we will) because its an ignorant leap in logic. The professional athletes that we cheer for are not robots and do enjoy lives outside of sport. We are but given a small window, 19 weeks if we're lucky, of which to view them. The priviledge of hindsight offers that the Roethlisberger's, and Favre's, and Brady's, and Manning's did alright for themselves but lest we recall that winning has a way of curing any reasonable suspicion or care for how players utilize their personal time. And therein lays the dangers of perception that we, as fans, always struggle to interpret.

Farmer, Pettine, and the decision makers within the front-office should have the purest insight into Manziel's character, abilities, and work habits, so as difficult as it may seem at times I would argue that we should defer to their assessment of Johnny. My hope is that Johnny puts in the time and effort that will most certainly not be acknowledged by media outlets, and I will temper my judgement when his extraneous and irrevalent social exploits become media fodder.

USFBrown

I feel bad for the guy. I don't like him, he's spoiled, entitled, and thinks the rules don't apply to him. He'll either be a broke drunk out of the league in 3 years or he'll be a rich kid drunk living with his parents.

Either way he won't be in the NFL much longer. I'm willing to take wagers if anyone thinks otherwise.

tml1138

Found this article today:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2313809-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-johnny-manziel-channels-his-inner-eddie-haskell#articles/2313809-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-johnny-manziel-channels-his-inner-eddie-haskell

Although Mr and Mrs Cleaver could see right through Eddie Haskell...

Westside Steve

Yeah I'd be more impressed by a guy that came in holding his dick and asking where the white women were. And of course the Browns are looking for another quarterback. Brian Hoyer, according to most of you guys and the commentators, wants to go somewhere he will be guaranteed a starting job.

MasterDog

@diehardbrownsfan said:
Your posts sound like a vindictive woman.

Yes, i despise him. This dumb ass and his "rec tum" tweet got us to trade up and blow a first round pick on him while Bridgewater and Carr was still on board.

MasterDog

As sad as the Raiders have been over the years, they might have nailed a potential set of franchise players on both side of the ball over the next decade with Mack and Carr.

Could had been us...but noooooooooo some of our great fans (including the homeless person) with excellent eye for talent wanted Manziel.

Mudfly

@westside-steve said:
Brian Hoyer, according to most of you guys and the commentators, wants to go somewhere he will be guaranteed a starting job.

Let's be fair....thats "according to Mary Kay Cabot", considering it was her story....

So,now Im confused and need to hate...

do I hate Brian for saying he doesn't want play with JFF and being arrogant by demanding to start???

or do I hate on Mary Kay for making up stories and creating controversy where it doesn't exist???

DieHardBrownsFan

I don't despise anyone that I have never met, and only read about on the Browns Board, TMZ or heard on the news. I do think he needs to get his shit together ASAP. I think some of the anti-JFF posters are much worse then the JFF fanboys.

Westside Steve

@mudfly said:

Let's be fair....thats "according to Mary Kay Cabot", considering it was her story....

So,now Im confused and need to hate...

do I hate Brian for saying he doesn't want play with JFF and being arrogant by demanding to start???

or do I hate on Mary Kay for making up stories and creating controversy where it doesn't exist???

Do you think she made that up? Do you think he's not looking for a starting job? Do you think he's not looking for starting money? As far as the rest I'd say carry on as you have. Just hate everybody.

I don't blame Brian Hoyer and his agent for wanting to get the best deal possible for him.

It's a process.

but I don't hear any commentator saying sure Brian Hoyer will be back in Cleveland next year! Bank on it.

WSS

Tacosman

Brian hoyer is the worst rated qb by most metrics in the nfl. He's terrible. We should be glad we aren't going to resign him to be dog catcher, much less some sort of qb.

Zombo

@tacosman said:
Brian hoyer is the worst rated qb by most metrics in the nfl. He's terrible. We should be glad we aren't going to resign him to be dog catcher, much less some sort of qb.

There is a separate thread about Hoyer. This thread is about Manziel who had the worst rating in the league for anyone throwing 20 passes or more.

I guess we weren't good at throwing passes, because our backup was even worse.

Both of them, actually.

Z

Tacosman

Zombo said:

There is a separate thread about Hoyer. This thread is about Manziel who had the worst rating in the league for anyone throwing 20 passes or more.

I guess we weren't good at throwing passes, because our backup was even worse.

Both of them, actually.

Z

The key difference is that 20 passes is not an adequate minimum to determine anything......the whole season hoyer sucked for to place him at the very bottom of the league is adequate.

That's why on official stats you will find hoyer at the bottom and not manziel. Because hoyer had a ton of playing time and attempts.

Zombo

@tacosman said:

The key difference is that 20 passes is not an adequate minimum to determine anything......the whole season hoyer sucked for to place him at the very bottom of the league is adequate.

That's why on official stats you will find hoyer at the bottom and not manziel. Because hoyer had a ton of playing time and attempts.

2013

Hoyer 3-0 W-L, 82.6 Rating

Campbell 1-7 W-L, 76.9 Rating

Weeden 0-5 W-L, 70.3 Rating

2014

Hoyer 7-6 W-L, 76.5 Rating

Shaw 0-1 W-L, 55.2 Rating

Manziel 0-2 W-L, 42.0 Rating

So, yes, compared to rest of the league his passing numbers were sub-par. But he was clearly the most effective QB on the Browns roster each year. Yeah, he is a backup quality QB, but he was the best we had and the offense, and QB play, was putrid without him.

So why rip on the one guy that at least helped us be competitive when there were no better answers on the roster?

So maybe Brian Hoyer is the 40th best QB in the NFL ... that would make him one of the top backups in the league. A guy you can start until you find better. That's all he was. The problem is that we didn't find better.

The problem is that first round pick Weeden busted. And first round pick Manziel was not prepared to play the position at the NFL level.

And even former first round pick Campbell did worse than Hoyer.

The problem is not that the undrafted free agent journeyman played like a competent backup, the problem is that the guys who were supposed to become the starters, played worse than the undrafted free agent journeyman.

We get it. Hoyer's a backup. He can win a few games in a stretch for you, but he is no franchise QB. We understand that. He shouldn't be starting. The problem is that the guys we brought in to be the franchise QB are so awful that we has continued to be our best option.

Let's not blame the career backup for playing like a backup. Let's get pissed because he was so much better than everybody else on our roster that two years.

We are spending first round picks on QBs and they can't beat out Brian Freaking Hoyer. That's the problem.

Zombo

bbedward

Bravo ^

But remember who you're quoting.