Hortons defense was better than this...
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Oh sweet is this where you take a shot in the dark that I didn't play football at all? I played it my whole life. I also knew that if I had Joe Shit on the defensive line that the LBs were going to be shit out of luck. They can only do so much.Phil Taylor is truly healthy one game and the run defense looks fine. He goes out again and the run defense goes to hell. I am sure that is just a coincidence to you
The burden is on you to prove your point other than just trying to talk shit like you are the only person on the entire board who played football.
LB'ers are responsible for the run. DL is responsible for holding their gaps. That's what people who played know. Anybody that's played LB'er knows that OL are going to get off on them even with the best of lineman infront of them. They have to deal with it, it's part of the pre requisite skillset that comes along with playing LB'er...even at the HS level. I had guys at the semi pro level that took bad run defense more personally than the Browns LB'ers. Dudes' were so mad they were in tears practically after the game. And those were unpaid semi pro players. Not millionaires.
^^perspective maybe?
LB'ers are responsible for the run. DL is responsible for holding their gaps. That's what people who played know. Anybody that's played LB'er knows that OL are going to get off on them even with the best of lineman infront of them. They have to deal with it, it's part of the pre requisite skillset that comes along with playing LB'er...even at the HS level. I had guys at the semi pro level that took bad run defense more personally than the Browns LB'ers. Dudes' were so mad they were in tears practically after the game. And those were unpaid semi pro players. Not millionaires.
^^perspective maybe?
Well then as someone who dealt with semi-pro football players, would you say that their job would be easy if their starting point for cleaning up the run is 3-5 yards up field after the d-line acted as if they were on roller skates?
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Seems to me that last year's defense gave up some leads as they got winded near the end of the game. Are my recollections faulty?
WSS
You are 100% correct...last years team(2013) gave up several games in the second half, while this years team was actually better in the second half of games....
Bottom line......
Pettines red zone defense was 5th in the league
Hortons red zone defense was 30th in the league
Those are facts....though Cleve4life is really worried about yards, stats and sacks....not points....
Statistically....we were better in the second half this year....scored more points and gave up fewer points
And if you break it down by quarters.....we were the #2 defense in the league for the 1st & 3rd qtrs......and the #22 defense for the 2nd & 4th qtrs......which means we come out strong, then lose it as the game goes on....i suspect a better offense would help this, as the D plays great when rested...but I think the O could do more to keep them off the field and prevent the late half wear downs....
You are 100% correct...last years team(2013) gave up several games in the second half, while this years team was actually better in the second half of games....
Bottom line......
Pettines red zone defense was 5th in the league
Hortons red zone defense was 30th in the league
Those are facts....though Cleve4life is really worried about yards, stats and sacks....not points....
Statistically....we were better in the second half this year....scored more points and gave up fewer points
And if you break it down by quarters.....we were the #2 defense in the league for the 1st & 3rd qtrs......and the #22 defense for the 2nd & 4th qtrs......which means we come out strong, then lose it as the game goes on....i suspect a better offense would help this, as the D plays great when rested...but I think the O could do more to keep them off the field and prevent the late half wear downs....
Were you watching the games at all? We giving up 100 yds before my first beer. Ok so after the 1st halfs when teams had to revert to passing more to keep up with our offense, our defense started to look better. But seriously if I was 10 minutes late starting the game I'd sit down to an opposing rusher with like 70 or 80 yds. <----only a slight exaggeration. Very minor at best.
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LB'ers are responsible for the run. DL is responsible for holding their gaps. That's what people who played know. Anybody that's played LB'er knows that OL are going to get off on them even with the best of lineman infront of them. They have to deal with it, it's part of the pre requisite skillset that comes along with playing LB'er...even at the HS level. I had guys at the semi pro level that took bad run defense more personally than the Browns LB'ers. Dudes' were so mad they were in tears practically after the game. And those were unpaid semi pro players. Not millionaires.
^^perspective maybe?
Well then as someone who dealt with semi-pro football players, would you say that their job would be easy if their starting point for cleaning up the run is 3-5 yards up field after the d-line acted as if they were on roller skates?
Well then as someone who dealt with semi-pro football players, would you say that their job would be easy if their starting point for cleaning up the run is 3-5 yards up field after the d-line acted as if they were on roller skates?
Yeah but that wasn't what happened. Especially not at the beginning of the season. Our LB'ers just weren't in the hole. Didn't take long into the season for me to start paying attention to the LB'ers cause we were shitting the bed on run defense. Maybe if I saw all-22 I could figure out why they were never in the right spot, but from the TV angles all I could tell was that our OLB'ers were forcing everything inside and our ILB'ers just missed....a lot. They were never at the point and the RB's skated through without a hand barely being laid on em. Our LB'ers just were never at the point of attack. It wasn't because someone had blocked them either. Why I have no idea. Part of the reason I started this thread. I wanna know why. Was hoping there were some x's and o's types here that knew the game better than me. But most of you are crying about the d line and giving our LB'ers a complete pass which means infact that most of you have no idea how defense is supposed to work.
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But, but, but....we couldn't stop the run when our LB'ers were playing up. Nothing you're saying makes any sense from a football standpoint. Your the one just bringing up stats. Our scoring defense is better. Ok, that's not entirely unimportant but it's also kind of irrelevant this season given that our run defense cost us the season. That's beyond debate. Even a mediocre run defense this year has us in the playoffs easily. Again if that doesn't resonate with you than have fun watching pixels move across the screen cause that's about as deep as it's gonna get for you.
Yep....yards are more important than points...you're right.
Very typical....rather than address the football points, you regress to name calling and put downs. Good ammo man!
You say Im the one bringing up stats, but all your posts are SCREAMING about stats....go back and read your own words.
Im talking about points....not fucking stats....get it straight.
Your screaming because we got 38 yds worse per game......Im saying we got 6 points better per game....which do you prefer?
Yep....yards are more important than points...you're right.
Very typical....rather than address the football points, you regress to name calling and put downs. Good ammo man!
You say Im the one bringing up stats, but all your posts are SCREAMING about stats....go back and read your own words.
Im talking about points....not fucking stats....get it straight.
Your screaming because we got 38 yds worse per game......Im saying we got 6 points better per game....which do you prefer?
and you're not understanding that our offense, especially early on....had more to do with that scoring stat than anything else. Had teams stuck with the run throughout the season....we would have been an historically bad defense imo. "Historically". If our offense sucked as bad throughout the year as it did at the end.....there would be no discussion here. This defense got bailed out by the offense, which was the exact opposite of what I thought was going to be the case before the season started. Again, middle of the road mediocre run defense and we're in the playoffs. How do you not get this?
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Well then as someone who dealt with semi-pro football players, would you say that their job would be easy if their starting point for cleaning up the run is 3-5 yards up field after the d-line acted as if they were on roller skates?
Yeah but that wasn't what happened. Especially not at the beginning of the season. Our LB'ers just weren't in the hole. Didn't take long into the season for me to start paying attention to the LB'ers cause we were shitting the bed on run defense. Maybe if I saw all-22 I could figure out why they were never in the right spot, but from the TV angles all I could tell was that our OLB'ers were forcing everything inside and our ILB'ers just missed....a lot. They were never at the point and the RB's skated through without a hand barely being laid on em. Our LB'ers just were never at the point of attack. It wasn't because someone had blocked them either. Why I have no idea. Part of the reason I started this thread. I wanna know why. Was hoping there were some x's and o's types here that knew the game better than me. But most of you are crying about the d line and giving our LB'ers a complete pass which means infact that most of you have no idea how defense is supposed to work.
Yeah but that wasn't what happened. Especially not at the beginning of the season. Our LB'ers just weren't in the hole. Didn't take long into the season for me to start paying attention to the LB'ers cause we were shitting the bed on run defense. Maybe if I saw all-22 I could figure out why they were never in the right spot, but from the TV angles all I could tell was that our OLB'ers were forcing everything inside and our ILB'ers just missed....a lot. They were never at the point and the RB's skated through without a hand barely being laid on em. Our LB'ers just were never at the point of attack. It wasn't because someone had blocked them either. Why I have no idea. Part of the reason I started this thread. I wanna know why. Was hoping there were some x's and o's types here that knew the game better than me. But most of you are crying about the d line and giving our LB'ers a complete pass which means infact that most of you have no idea how defense is supposed to work.
You must have been watching different games. I remember the d-line getting moved around all year. But who am I other than a guy talking to a person who was vaguely involved with a semi-pro football team. No one is giving the LBs a pass (ex: Mingo was most definitely out of position and tackled poorly) but I don't think you can give a proper evaluation when the defensive line was a sieve.
When Taylor was off and got healthy, his game back the run defense was fine. Any explanation as to why you think that is?
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Yeah but that wasn't what happened. Especially not at the beginning of the season. Our LB'ers just weren't in the hole. Didn't take long into the season for me to start paying attention to the LB'ers cause we were shitting the bed on run defense. Maybe if I saw all-22 I could figure out why they were never in the right spot, but from the TV angles all I could tell was that our OLB'ers were forcing everything inside and our ILB'ers just missed....a lot. They were never at the point and the RB's skated through without a hand barely being laid on em. Our LB'ers just were never at the point of attack. It wasn't because someone had blocked them either. Why I have no idea. Part of the reason I started this thread. I wanna know why. Was hoping there were some x's and o's types here that knew the game better than me. But most of you are crying about the d line and giving our LB'ers a complete pass which means infact that most of you have no idea how defense is supposed to work.
You must have been watching different games. I remember the d-line getting moved around all year. But who am I other than a guy talking to a person who was vaguely involved with a semi-pro football team. No one is giving the LBs a pass (ex: Mingo was most definitely out of position and tackled poorly) but I don't think you can give a proper evaluation when the defensive line was a sieve.
When Taylor was off and got healthy, his game back the run defense was fine. Any explanation as to why you think that is?
You must have been watching different games. I remember the d-line getting moved around all year. But who am I other than a guy talking to a person who was vaguely involved with a semi-pro football team. No one is giving the LBs a pass (ex: Mingo was most definitely out of position and tackled poorly) but I don't think you can give a proper evaluation when the defensive line was a sieve.
When Taylor was off and got healthy, his game back the run defense was fine. Any explanation as to why you think that is?
The Bengals had an off game for one. I think we dared Dalton to beat us over the top and at least for that game it worked.
And I wasn't vaguely involved with a semi pro team I played HS, College than Semi. Not one of those "I coulda been a contenda" guys. But I did learn the fundamentals. And yes everyone is/has been giving the LB'ers a pass. The fact you bring up Mingo means you still don't get it. Mingo's the OLB'er. If he's in and a run breaks to the outside on his side, than it's on him. But Pettine said they used him mostly in coverage, probably cause of his shoulder. I'm not giving Mingo a pass on his OLB'er edge responsibilities, but he's not part of the inside problem which is where we got gouged the entire season. GOUGED. That's a DL/ILB problem. So why are you bringing someone up that didn't play at the positions in question? You say you played your whole life so you must know what these guys responsibilities are right? OLB'ers in a 3-4 contain the edge and force everything inside....right?
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You must have been watching different games. I remember the d-line getting moved around all year. But who am I other than a guy talking to a person who was vaguely involved with a semi-pro football team. No one is giving the LBs a pass (ex: Mingo was most definitely out of position and tackled poorly) but I don't think you can give a proper evaluation when the defensive line was a sieve.
When Taylor was off and got healthy, his game back the run defense was fine. Any explanation as to why you think that is?
The Bengals had an off game for one. I think we dared Dalton to beat us over the top and at least for that game it worked.
And I wasn't vaguely involved with a semi pro team I played HS, College than Semi. Not one of those "I coulda been a contenda" guys. But I did learn the fundamentals. And yes everyone is/has been giving the LB'ers a pass. The fact you bring up Mingo means you still don't get it. Mingo's the OLB'er. If he's in and a run breaks to the outside on his side, than it's on him. But Pettine said they used him mostly in coverage, probably cause of his shoulder. I'm not giving Mingo a pass on his OLB'er edge responsibilities, but he's not part of the inside problem which is where we got gouged the entire season. GOUGED. That's a DL/ILB problem. So why are you bringing someone up that didn't play at the positions in question? You say you played your whole life so you must know what these guys responsibilities are right? OLB'ers in a 3-4 contain the edge and force everything inside....right?
The Bengals had an off game for one. I think we dared Dalton to beat us over the top and at least for that game it worked.
And I wasn't vaguely involved with a semi pro team I played HS, College than Semi. Not one of those "I coulda been a contenda" guys. But I did learn the fundamentals. And yes everyone is/has been giving the LB'ers a pass. The fact you bring up Mingo means you still don't get it. Mingo's the OLB'er. If he's in and a run breaks to the outside on his side, than it's on him. But Pettine said they used him mostly in coverage, probably cause of his shoulder. I'm not giving Mingo a pass on his OLB'er edge responsibilities, but he's not part of the inside problem which is where we got gouged the entire season. GOUGED. That's a DL/ILB problem. So why are you bringing someone up that didn't play at the positions in question? You say you played your whole life so you must know what these guys responsibilities are right? OLB'ers in a 3-4 contain the edge and force everything inside....right?
"..giving our LBers a complete pass". Your words. If you want to be specific, be specific. Instead of just using it as a means to argue about specific LB position responsibilities. If your only gripe is with the ILBs then by all means volunteer all of this information you have on plays where the ILB were out of position. It should be easy for you to name a player and a specific game, right?
Oh and I know lots of dumb shits who played semi-pro football. It by no means makes you an authority.
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The Bengals had an off game for one. I think we dared Dalton to beat us over the top and at least for that game it worked.
And I wasn't vaguely involved with a semi pro team I played HS, College than Semi. Not one of those "I coulda been a contenda" guys. But I did learn the fundamentals. And yes everyone is/has been giving the LB'ers a pass. The fact you bring up Mingo means you still don't get it. Mingo's the OLB'er. If he's in and a run breaks to the outside on his side, than it's on him. But Pettine said they used him mostly in coverage, probably cause of his shoulder. I'm not giving Mingo a pass on his OLB'er edge responsibilities, but he's not part of the inside problem which is where we got gouged the entire season. GOUGED. That's a DL/ILB problem. So why are you bringing someone up that didn't play at the positions in question? You say you played your whole life so you must know what these guys responsibilities are right? OLB'ers in a 3-4 contain the edge and force everything inside....right?
"..giving our LBers a complete pass". Your words. If you want to be specific, be specific. Instead of just using it as a means to argue about specific LB position responsibilities. If your only gripe is with the ILBs then by all means volunteer all of this information you have on plays where the ILB were out of position. It should be easy for you to name a player and a specific game, right?
Oh and I know lots of dumb shits who played semi-pro football. It by no means makes you an authority.
"..giving our LBers a complete pass". Your words. If you want to be specific, be specific. Instead of just using it as a means to argue about specific LB position responsibilities. If your only gripe is with the ILBs then by all means volunteer all of this information you have on plays where the ILB were out of position. It should be easy for you to name a player and a specific game, right?
Oh and I know lots of dumb shits who played semi-pro football. It by no means makes you an authority.
Yes I too knew a lot of dumbshits that played semi pro. But I played HS and College so know "something". I stated I was hoping someone here knew more than me and could explain exactly why Pettine's D is soft against the run. But when people say it's all on the DL they of course concede that they don't know much about playing defense in the game of football. I myself stated it isn't 100% on the LB'ers, it can't be otherwise it wouldn't be a "team" game. However for the most part it is. When a team has piss poor, and I do mean piss poor, run defense....the LB'ers have to be the first group you look at.
And no I don't have timestamps of games where I saw our ILB'ers out of position. lol This has been talked about all season though. Other people noted early on that our LB'ers seemed to be out of position, but back then it was all about the scheme. And for the most part we all bought it. Surely this will right itself is what we all said at the beginning of the season, myself included because I couldn't fathom we'd be that bad all season. Not with a self appointed "the best LB'er in the NFL" that we just paid for on the open market.
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I am more than willing to concede the point if we get some talent on the d-line and get people healthy yet still see dogshit run defense. I will be the first to apologize to you. I just know in the time I watched that the d-line was getting pushed around at will.
Dansby said that about himself? I fucking hope not.
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I feel bad that a couple dumb asses turned this thread into a rant/on rant/off fuck circle...I really wanted this thread to be a serious discussion about why exactly we were soft cunt against the run this year. But couple you guys just can't seem to get over the fact that it's a joint problem amongst several positions and may also include scheme. But the people who are probably football smart enough to know exactly why the Browns defense was soft against the run this year are probably not going to comment in here, and thanks for that you asshats.
I originally brought up our run stats cause, well, we were worse against the run...which is what this thread is about anyway. For this thread I didn't care that we were 6 points better scoring, which might have meant something if we were even marginally effective against the run. We lost multiple games because of our run defense and would have lost many more if it weren't for our early season offensive success. I think we can all agree that if this run defense persists next year, than it's going to be another long ass year isn't it? But let's hear more about 6 points better scoring. For sure let's hear more.
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Sure enough he did haha. Oh boy.
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I am more than willing to concede the point if we get some talent on the d-line and get people healthy yet still see dogshit run defense. I will be the first to apologize to you. I just know in the time I watched that the d-line was getting pushed around at will.
Dansby said that about himself? I fucking hope not.
I am more than willing to concede the point if we get some talent on the d-line and get people healthy yet still see dogshit run defense. I will be the first to apologize to you. I just know in the time I watched that the d-line was getting pushed around at will.
Dansby said that about himself? I fucking hope not.
"I'm the best right now, the best by far". Aug 5th, 2014
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Yeah I looked it up. Guy is an idiot.
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I am more than willing to concede the point if we get some talent on the d-line and get people healthy yet still see dogshit run defense. I will be the first to apologize to you. I just know in the time I watched that the d-line was getting pushed around at will.
Dansby said that about himself? I fucking hope not.
I am more than willing to concede the point if we get some talent on the d-line and get people healthy yet still see dogshit run defense. I will be the first to apologize to you. I just know in the time I watched that the d-line was getting pushed around at will.
Dansby said that about himself? I fucking hope not.
My original question in this thread though is why was the run defense so bad with the exact same front line this year? If it's scheme I wanted to know what exactly it was. But dudes coming in here saying "we've been over this it's the DL" blah blah blah. It ain't all the DL and I know that cause I played. I ain't gonna hear any nonsense about how our LB'ers were just fine it's the DL that gave up the poosy. That's fucking low rent bullshit from people who don't know football. Last year we all talked about how this was the best d line in all of football. Maybe Hortons scheme fitted these guys better? So it comes back again to what did Horton do with our guys that was so much different than Oneil?
And yeah that's a hoot little quote from Dansby isn't it? I watched Chris Borland in two games against Seattle go 1 up with the beast and for the most part, got the better of Lynch. Fucking rookie Chris Borland against the most physical RB in the NFL.
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I feel bad that a couple dumb asses turned this thread into a rant/on rant/off fuck circle...I really wanted this thread to be a serious discussion about why exactly we were soft cunt against the run this year. But couple you guys just can't seem to get over the fact that it's a joint problem amongst several positions and may also include scheme. But the people who are probably football smart enough to know exactly why the Browns defense was soft against the run this year are probably not going to comment in here, and thanks for that you asshats.
I originally brought up our run stats cause, well, we were worse against the run...which is what this thread is about anyway. For this thread I didn't care that we were 6 points better scoring, which might have meant something if we were even marginally effective against the run. We lost multiple games because of our run defense and would have lost many more if it weren't for our early season offensive success. I think we can all agree that if this run defense persists next year, than it's going to be another long ass year isn't it? But let's hear more about 6 points better scoring. For sure let's hear more.
I feel bad that a couple dumb asses turned this thread into a rant/on rant/off fuck circle...I really wanted this thread to be a serious discussion about why exactly we were soft cunt against the run this year.
No... Your own words say it. You wanted to discuss how many reasons why your conclusion was right. As best I can tell that conclusion was DQ's departure accounted for it a decline, or all except some small slice of Khalil Mack is better than Kirksey.
It never occurred to you someone might disagree with your conclusion let alone your premise... despite the above, awesome display of football prowess.
I saw only one dumbass here...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I feel bad that a couple dumb asses turned this thread into a rant/on rant/off fuck circle...I really wanted this thread to be a serious discussion about why exactly we were soft cunt against the run this year.
No... Your own words say it. You wanted to discuss how many reasons why your conclusion was right. As best I can tell that conclusion was DQ's departure accounted for it a decline, or all except some small slice of Khalil Mack is better than Kirksey.
It never occurred to you someone might disagree with your conclusion let alone your premise... despite the above, awesome display of football prowess.
I saw only one dumbass here...
No... Your own words say it. You wanted to discuss how many reasons why your conclusion was right. As best I can tell that conclusion was DQ's departure accounted for it a decline, or all except some small slice of Khalil Mack is better than Kirksey.
It never occurred to you someone might disagree with your conclusion let alone your premise... despite the above, awesome display of football prowess.
I saw only one dumbass here...
woefully wrong. I gave my opinion about why "I" think the run defense sucked this year, and gave some empirical evidence to back it up. Yet I still acknowledged that I may be wrong and wanted to hear from people who actually knew how the game of football was played. Those of you, including yourself, who say it's the d line stupid.....clearly show you don't know how the game is played. That's not me saying "I'm completely right and you're all completely wrong"...but there's certain facts to football you can't get around. One of those being that if you're getting gouged on run defense up the middle you have to look at what your LB'ers are doing wrong. If you dont' understand that you really don't know the game of football. Now exactly why those LB'ers weren't doing their job...is what I was trying to get at in this discussion. How much of it was scheme and how much of it was on them. Said plenty of times I'd like to hear what Oneil was doing with our LB'ers that was so different than Horton was.
Woefully inept analysis of someone's else's writing. Really. You can agree or disagree with someone but at least grasp the basics.
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No... Your own words say it. You wanted to discuss how many reasons why your conclusion was right. As best I can tell that conclusion was DQ's departure accounted for it a decline, or all except some small slice of Khalil Mack is better than Kirksey.
It never occurred to you someone might disagree with your conclusion let alone your premise... despite the above, awesome display of football prowess.
I saw only one dumbass here...
woefully wrong. I gave my opinion about why "I" think the run defense sucked this year, and gave some empirical evidence to back it up. Yet I still acknowledged that I may be wrong and wanted to hear from people who actually knew how the game of football was played. Those of you, including yourself, who say it's the d line stupid.....clearly show you don't know how the game is played. That's not me saying "I'm completely right and you're all completely wrong"...but there's certain facts to football you can't get around. One of those being that if you're getting gouged on run defense up the middle you have to look at what your LB'ers are doing wrong. If you dont' understand that you really don't know the game of football. Now exactly why those LB'ers weren't doing their job...is what I was trying to get at in this discussion. How much of it was scheme and how much of it was on them. Said plenty of times I'd like to hear what Oneil was doing with our LB'ers that was so different than Horton was.
Woefully inept analysis of someone's else's writing. Really. You can agree or disagree with someone but at least grasp the basics.
Those of you, including yourself, who say it's the d line stupid.....clearly show you don't know how the game is played. That's not me saying "I'm completely right and you're all completely wrong"...
Riiight. Makes total sense now..
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No... Your own words say it. You wanted to discuss how many reasons why your conclusion was right. As best I can tell that conclusion was DQ's departure accounted for it a decline, or all except some small slice of Khalil Mack is better than Kirksey.
It never occurred to you someone might disagree with your conclusion let alone your premise... despite the above, awesome display of football prowess.
I saw only one dumbass here...
woefully wrong. I gave my opinion about why "I" think the run defense sucked this year, and gave some empirical evidence to back it up. Yet I still acknowledged that I may be wrong and wanted to hear from people who actually knew how the game of football was played. Those of you, including yourself, who say it's the d line stupid.....clearly show you don't know how the game is played. That's not me saying "I'm completely right and you're all completely wrong"...but there's certain facts to football you can't get around. One of those being that if you're getting gouged on run defense up the middle you have to look at what your LB'ers are doing wrong. If you dont' understand that you really don't know the game of football. Now exactly why those LB'ers weren't doing their job...is what I was trying to get at in this discussion. How much of it was scheme and how much of it was on them. Said plenty of times I'd like to hear what Oneil was doing with our LB'ers that was so different than Horton was.
Woefully inept analysis of someone's else's writing. Really. You can agree or disagree with someone but at least grasp the basics.
woefully wrong. I gave my opinion about why "I" think the run defense sucked this year, and gave some empirical evidence to back it up. Yet I still acknowledged that I may be wrong and wanted to hear from people who actually knew how the game of football was played. Those of you, including yourself, who say it's the d line stupid.....clearly show you don't know how the game is played. That's not me saying "I'm completely right and you're all completely wrong"...but there's certain facts to football you can't get around. One of those being that if you're getting gouged on run defense up the middle you have to look at what your LB'ers are doing wrong. If you dont' understand that you really don't know the game of football. Now exactly why those LB'ers weren't doing their job...is what I was trying to get at in this discussion. How much of it was scheme and how much of it was on them. Said plenty of times I'd like to hear what Oneil was doing with our LB'ers that was so different than Horton was.
Woefully inept analysis of someone's else's writing. Really. You can agree or disagree with someone but at least grasp the basics.
you got everyone else's opinions and they all disagreed with you. if you can't grasp that the dline injuries hurt us then you can't grasp the basics.
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I know scheme was mentioned. It seemed there was a big time emphasis on building this defense to stop the pass.
Some idicators: drafting 2 cbs, Kirksey was supposed to be a better coverage LB than run stopper, and l remember the reports in camp about how they were trying Mingo in coverage. He was drafted l thought because he was a savvy pass rusher.
I don't claim to be a football guru but it seemed evident to me the defensive emphasis was on stopping the pass.
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woefully wrong. I gave my opinion about why "I" think the run defense sucked this year, and gave some empirical evidence to back it up. Yet I still acknowledged that I may be wrong and wanted to hear from people who actually knew how the game of football was played. Those of you, including yourself, who say it's the d line stupid.....clearly show you don't know how the game is played. That's not me saying "I'm completely right and you're all completely wrong"...but there's certain facts to football you can't get around. One of those being that if you're getting gouged on run defense up the middle you have to look at what your LB'ers are doing wrong. If you dont' understand that you really don't know the game of football. Now exactly why those LB'ers weren't doing their job...is what I was trying to get at in this discussion. How much of it was scheme and how much of it was on them. Said plenty of times I'd like to hear what Oneil was doing with our LB'ers that was so different than Horton was.
Woefully inept analysis of someone's else's writing. Really. You can agree or disagree with someone but at least grasp the basics.
you got everyone else's opinions and they all disagreed with you. if you can't grasp that the dline injuries hurt us then you can't grasp the basics.
you got everyone else's opinions and they all disagreed with you. if you can't grasp that the dline injuries hurt us then you can't grasp the basics.
Of course the d line injuries hurt us, but as I've provided we were equally as bad against the run healthy as unhealthy this year. And last year was this d line not "EXACTLY" the same? So SOMETHING changed and it isn't just due to injuries. If you can't grasp that than the basics of football escape you. For the umpteenth time I'm open as to what was done differently this year. What I'm not open to is that it's ALL on the D line as it isn't ALL on the LB'ers. But what I've said from the beginning of the season and what anybody who's played organized football on the defensive side of the ball knows, final accountability for run defense falls on the LB'ers. Last year we were better against the run with the exact same D line but different linebackers. WHY? What, if anything, did we do drastically different with the d line and/or lb'ers. That's the discussion I wanted to have.
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