I miss Art Modell..
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Those of you who are old enough to remember know that Modell had his problems, but never let the franchise fall to this level. The point of the post was to support my position that this team is not the Cleveland Browns. Sure...Gipper can park his Yugo in his driveway and hang a name plate on it that says, Ferrari....but it's still a Yugo.
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People, don't feed the troll. It'll be daylight soon and he'll be going back under his rock.
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People, don't feed the troll. It'll be daylight soon and he'll be going back under his rock.
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I think the argument of whether the new team should have been called "the Browns" or "The Caped Crusaders"
is a pointless exercise in semantics.
What screwed (doomed?) the new team was the NFL's approach to bringing the new team to Cleveland.
In the early/mid 90's, with the addition of the expansion Panthers and Jags, both teams had their ownership
groups in place for over a year and a half before their first draft. With Cleveland, however, the NFL allowed
the ownership process to drag out in order to drive the franchise price up due to the bidding war between the
different ownership factions. If I remember correctly, when Lerner was named the new owner there was less
than 1 year to our first draft. Less than a year and we didn't even have a coach. Then the first of endless horrible
decisions was made: Chris Palmer---REALLY? Between the NFL's fuckery, and the Browns inability to get out of
their own way---well, we've been bent over and taking it hard and dry ever since.
Speaking of hard and dry----Fuck Art Modell.
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Lodi I am pretty much in agreement with you. Pretty much not totally. I always liked Art Modell and thought he really enjoyed owning the Cleveland Browns.
I think we forget that had he not fired Paul Brown the coach would have gotten rid of Jim Brown.
I think that Art Modell may have over reached a few times too often in the financial realm and found himself behind the eight ball. Most of his moves that piss us off I believe were done because of money troubles. I also think there was a big movement against him in Cleveland especially some of the council people like Fannie Lewis who was against spending public money on the stadium in the first place.
After grudgingly agreeing to a stadium renovation it became clear that in itself wasn't enough to right the ship. Baltimore offered more plus the huge bribe and he took it.
Where I fault him is for not appearing on television looking the citizens in the eye and stating in no uncertain terms that what he needed was the deal Baltimore offered, that he was going broke without it and if the city of Cleveland refused he was going elsewhere.
He never did that and if this were classic Theater that would have been his tragic flaw. The point from which salvation is impossible.
I also liked Al Lerner and would have liked to see what would have happened had he lived.
Randy was never a football fan but did what he thought was best for the team and never complain about spending money or turning the organization over to football people. Football people that these fickle fucking fans thought would be the savior until they turned on them. Sadly the fortunes weren't on Randy's side for that decision.
I have yet to make up my mind on Jimmy Haslam but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And for the haters out there who use this as an excuse I couldn't care less about the truck stop rebates.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
The way some of these guys talk you'd think they own trucking companies who couldn't track their rebates or competing truck stops.
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The ONLY other way I could have gotten behind a team other than the browns is if they were wearing scarlet and grey.
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Lodi I am pretty much in agreement with you. Pretty much not totally. I always liked Art Modell and thought he really enjoyed owning the Cleveland Browns.
I think we forget that had he not fired Paul Brown the coach would have gotten rid of Jim Brown.
I think that Art Modell may have over reached a few times too often in the financial realm and found himself behind the eight ball. Most of his moves that piss us off I believe were done because of money troubles. I also think there was a big movement against him in Cleveland especially some of the council people like Fannie Lewis who was against spending public money on the stadium in the first place.
After grudgingly agreeing to a stadium renovation it became clear that in itself wasn't enough to right the ship. Baltimore offered more plus the huge bribe and he took it.
Where I fault him is for not appearing on television looking the citizens in the eye and stating in no uncertain terms that what he needed was the deal Baltimore offered, that he was going broke without it and if the city of Cleveland refused he was going elsewhere.
He never did that and if this were classic Theater that would have been his tragic flaw. The point from which salvation is impossible.
I also liked Al Lerner and would have liked to see what would have happened had he lived.
Randy was never a football fan but did what he thought was best for the team and never complain about spending money or turning the organization over to football people. Football people that these fickle fucking fans thought would be the savior until they turned on them. Sadly the fortunes weren't on Randy's side for that decision.
I have yet to make up my mind on Jimmy Haslam but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And for the haters out there who use this as an excuse I couldn't care less about the truck stop rebates.
WSS
Lodi I am pretty much in agreement with you. Pretty much not totally. I always liked Art Modell and thought he really enjoyed owning the Cleveland Browns.
I think we forget that had he not fired Paul Brown the coach would have gotten rid of Jim Brown.
I think that Art Modell may have over reached a few times too often in the financial realm and found himself behind the eight ball. Most of his moves that piss us off I believe were done because of money troubles. I also think there was a big movement against him in Cleveland especially some of the council people like Fannie Lewis who was against spending public money on the stadium in the first place.
After grudgingly agreeing to a stadium renovation it became clear that in itself wasn't enough to right the ship. Baltimore offered more plus the huge bribe and he took it.
Where I fault him is for not appearing on television looking the citizens in the eye and stating in no uncertain terms that what he needed was the deal Baltimore offered, that he was going broke without it and if the city of Cleveland refused he was going elsewhere.
He never did that and if this were classic Theater that would have been his tragic flaw. The point from which salvation is impossible.
I also liked Al Lerner and would have liked to see what would have happened had he lived.
Randy was never a football fan but did what he thought was best for the team and never complain about spending money or turning the organization over to football people. Football people that these fickle fucking fans thought would be the savior until they turned on them. Sadly the fortunes weren't on Randy's side for that decision.
I have yet to make up my mind on Jimmy Haslam but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
And for the haters out there who use this as an excuse I couldn't care less about the truck stop rebates.
WSS
Steve...thanks for weighing in on this. I knew there had to be another idiot with similar thoughts on this subject. It must be from the late '60's and early '70's that caused the brain damage. Obviously we're in a minority. All kidding aside....we're Browns fans for life....it's like a disease. I just hope we get to see this team come back and win a few titles. I'm with you on Haslam. I've pretty much given up on Manziel....I know...we discussed that before. I hope he proves me wrong.
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I like truck stop jimmy. He loves football and hates losing. I'll take it over dandy randy who couldn't give a fuck
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whatever. Given the choice I think northeast Ohio should have opened up the checkbook. Modell and Belichick stay in Cleveland.
WSS
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Shoulda, coulda, woulda.
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I won't call you names. All I will say is: you love Modell so much....opt to go join him in the afterlife.
And the only factual thing I will correct is that Modell inherited a team that won 7 Championships in about 15 under owner Mickey McBride. the Browns won one....way early on under Modell. So whatever greatness the Browns achieved was done prior to Modell's arrival....and not under his stewardship.
Do the Lerner's compare to Modell? They are probably just as bad if not worse. They were not handed a winning organization like Art was.
Since you are the master of trivia....you might want to research the Browns' winning percentage during Modell's ownership vs. post 1995. I never said I loved Modell....simply stated a fact. The Browns team was much better with Modell as the owner. Of course you missed the main point of the post. This team should never have been put on the field as the Cleveland Browns. The name should have been retired in 1995, then the new team should have been renamed, to build it's own legacy.
Since you are the master of trivia....you might want to research the Browns' winning percentage during Modell's ownership vs. post 1995. I never said I loved Modell....simply stated a fact. The Browns team was much better with Modell as the owner. Of course you missed the main point of the post. This team should never have been put on the field as the Cleveland Browns. The name should have been retired in 1995, then the new team should have been renamed, to build it's own legacy.
What good would that have done? Just let the Cleveland Browns franchise go into the annals of NFL history? You're complaining with nothing but hindsight. Back in 1999 I bet you were happy as hell that Modell couldn't take the franchise with him to become the Baltimore Browns, and that the Cleveland Browns were returning. So we had to start over and it's been a struggle since. Oh fucking well, deal with it. Throughout NFL history, new teams have struggled to get going. And longer than this. New Orleans and Pittsburgh just to name a couple. It happens. And as Dste Ace stated, if his memory serves, the Browns were destined with a rough start in their first draft. Having your team uprooted like that and starting anew is a fucker, to be sure. It sucks major donkey dick that it's taking this long to get back on track, but there it is.
The Browns haven't won a title in 50 years. And the non-Modell Browns have been responsible for only 15 years of that time....but let's all miss Art and wish he was still here.
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Haslam seems committed to winning and has put some good people in place to try and bring a winning team to Cleveland.
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Okay...all you old farts...Gipper...can call me names until you turn blue. I don't care. Our team sucks...that's reality. No matter how you look at it....no matter what changes are made....it's always the same result. The Browns had a history of being one of the most dominant professional sports teams, at one time. We've watched these imposters drag the name Cleveland Browns through the mud since 1999. The team was respected, and we were proud to be fans. Since the installation of this team in Cleveland, I've never been comfortable with the name. I know Gipper...we've been down this road before, but you have to admit...the name Cleveland Browns is synanomous with big time losers...not great football team. I don't have to tell you, that didn't happen over night. As much as you hate Modell, you have to agree....for the most part, he always put a competitive team on the field. When we had a down season, I remember him saying...."losing is fine for the Tampa Bays of the world, but we're the Cleveland Browns, and we can't have that". I really wish that when this team came back, they would have hung a different name on them. The real Cleveland Browns don't deserve to be disgraced like this. Our team has been reduced to a punch line of some stupid joke. I don't really care for the guy, but I wonder how Jim Brown feels about this situation.....having a bunch of losers try to carry on the tradition that was once cherished among the players and fans. You guys who have been around a while may not admit it, but just like me, you are at the point of not giving a crap what they do, anymore. Maybe it's a sign of aging....when the Browns have another bad season, which is, of course, every season...just kind of losing interest. There's no answer or solution, because what's done is done, and we can't change what the team has become. We will get all excited about the draft, soon. I have no idea, why. It doesn't matter if we have every pick in the first round. We will screw it up. Since 1999 we've had a bunch of overpaid Retards (my apologies to Retards ) who think they are geniuses, picking players. Any idiot could do better by flipping a coin...like Romeo Crennel. Go ahead...tell me how stupid I am, and how I'm full of shit, and that Im not a real true blue Browns fan. Tell me to go root for the Ratbirds or some other team. Then tell me how in Hell these morons who are running this organization, are turning things around in my lifetime, with players like Manziel and Gordon.
As much as you hate Modell, you have to agree....for the most part, he always put a competitive team on the field. When we had a down season, I remember him saying...."losing is fine for the Tampa Bays of the world, but we're the Cleveland Browns, and we can't have that". I really wish that when this team came back, they would have hung a different name on them. The real Cleveland Browns don't deserve to be disgraced like this.
1. Regardless of team name it is the city... the team's fans... that feel any "disgrace" (I would prefer "disappointment"). That would still exist regardless of your "wish".
One question: How did you feel at the time Baltimore was denied use of the team name, "Browns"?
2. You cannot "for the most part... always" do anything. Modell did not come close to always. Once Collier left we began a string of mediocre HC's that managed only a few winning seasons: Skorich, Gregg and our beloved Sad Sam who posted a 5-11 season after "Red Right". It was not until Marty made us relavant that we truly returned to greatness and Modell got rid of Marty because he could not win the "big one". Who was selected to take us home? Bud Fucking Carson! Meanwhile Marty made KC relevant again for a decade.
How'd that work out?
I will say Modell got it right in the end... Belichick replacing Carson (actually Shofner) and ultimately hiring Ozzie as his GM proved that. Then again after the move he dumped Belichick... so there's that.
I do not miss Art one bit. I do miss organizational stability and that starts with ownership. I like our chances of having it now.
Go Browns...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The Browns' all time won-loss mark started to fade after Modell purchased the team. Google 1963-1995, you will see it.
Yeah, its beyond horrible from 1999-present. If Art sold it to a local owner, instead of selling us out, I bet the Browns would have been ok.
Also remember Art fired Paul Brown, and Belichick. Real smart guy Art was.
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Tour....I was thrilled that Baltimore was not using the name "Browns". I don't see the relevancy. Your point of fans of the team being disappointed is not accurate, in my opinion. Here's why....The existing Browns franchise had enjoyed a fair amount of success, before 1995. So...when the team returned in 1999, the fans expected to continue with a decent team...myself included. We know how that turned out. Let's say we were awarded a new franchise but the name "Browns" would be retired. Now you have the Cleveland Cougars...or whatever. The team "always sucks, for the most part", but it was expected. It is a new expansion team. It is not the Cleveland Browns. So, now when you talk football with your brother from Pittsburg, and he says.." Yins team sucks"...you could reply..."When the Browns were playing, we would, for the most part...always kick your asses". While your statement may grammatically incorrect, he would be too stupid to notice. I never said Art Modell was smart, but he was passionate about his team, the fans, and Cleveland. I guess I don't really miss him either....I just miss having legitimate hopes of winning more games than we lose in a season.
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Haven't you been railing on Bernie kosar as a drunk idiot who single handedly lost all the championship games in the 80s since, like, 1995?VesnaKociper said:
Sorry to post this again, and I swear if Zombo has a heart attack over it, I will pay his medical bills.
GIVE BERNIE KOSAR A VITAL, DECISION MAKING ROLE IN THE FRONT OFFICE
Until there is real passion in management, we will get more of this bullshit. Cleveland never was a showboat city where players came to bathe in the sun and ocean. Browns football always was a culture unlike any other NFL fan/player experience. Kosar is crippled and broken because he loved this team so much.
Jim Brown? Fuck Jim Brown. What the fuck did he ever do for the Browns? Yeah, undisputed best football player who ever lived............ Modell moved the team, Jim Brown left at 29 for Raquel Welch's most magnificent T&A. He didn't bleed for Cleveland. Who cares what he thinks?
Get someone who gives a shit. This isn't just about winning football games, it is about restoring Cleveland Browns culture to the team. Manziel is such an insult to our traditions it isn't even funny. Can you imagine cocksuckers like Manziel and Gordon playing for Sam, PB, BC or even Marty? Even Marty would have booted those guys in the nutsack.
Hire Kosar,
But actually I agree with you. Kosar is like football rain man.
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Yeah...I'm not suggesting that Haslam is not a good owner. I don't know the answer, on how to fix this team. I just get frustrated watching other teams have a bad season, make changes, and boom!...they're in the playoffs.
I just get frustrated watching other teams have a bad season, make changes, and boom!...they're in the playoffs.
what teams would those be?
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what teams would those be?
Kansas City: 2012 = 2 wins....2013 = 11 wins. Arizona: 2012 = 5 wins...2013 = 10 wins. Detroit: 2013 = 7 wins....2014 = 11 wins....plenty of examples. Just do a little research.
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