Grading The Winslow Deal
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I think it can be way in our favor.
Having the #50 pick allows us to do some other things with our 1st pick and 1st pick in round two.
It just brings way more players in to the mix and reduces the need to draft for need out of desperation.
Now, in round 1...Crabtree could be in the mix....one of the O tackles...D-line..
Round 2.....guys like Matthews might be around....but at the later pick....Mckenzie is a backer I watch...good centers will be around...a top back...
This is a strong draft in the 2nd round...we can get some players. If we can dump Edwards and or DA...we are going to get some decent picks.
I am liking what I see.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I would have prefered the 5th round pick next year to be a 4th this year but its decent, id say its fairly even...
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I think it can be way in our favor.
Having the #50 pick allows us to do some other things with our 1st pick and 1st pick in round two.
It just brings way more players in to the mix and reduces the need to draft for need out of desperation.
Now, in round 1...Crabtree could be in the mix....one of the O tackles...D-line..
Round 2.....guys like Matthews might be around....but at the later pick....Mckenzie is a backer I watch...good centers will be around...a top back...
This is a strong draft in the 2nd round...we can get some players. If we can dump Edwards and or DA...we are going to get some decent picks.
I am liking what I see.
I think it can be way in our favor.
Having the #50 pick allows us to do some other things with our 1st pick and 1st pick in round two.
It just brings way more players in to the mix and reduces the need to draft for need out of desperation.
Now, in round 1...Crabtree could be in the mix....one of the O tackles...D-line..
Round 2.....guys like Matthews might be around....but at the later pick....Mckenzie is a backer I watch...good centers will be around...a top back...
This is a strong draft in the 2nd round...we can get some players. If we can dump Edwards and or DA...we are going to get some decent picks.
I am liking what I see.
AMEN! When I heard about this trade at work yesterday, I just about jumped out of my chair. I grade it an "A" for the Browns. TB will be lucky to get 2 full, productive, & healthy years out of Winslow. He is 26 years old ONLY in a chronological sense. We made a good trade while there was still value there.
Mike
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I give the browns the edge however it still depends on what mankok does with the 2nd round pick this year.. if they land us a player that turns out to be gifted and develops into or instantly becomes a guy that helps the team and lasts longer then kw2 will then mankok gets a decisive victory..in my mind the jury is still out until the draft..
KW2 was our best hands guy and should help TB out immensely as a hybrid but in all honesty k2 probably never had a real defined role in a plain vanilla mangini offense as they like blocking TEs that can also catch...hahaha we dont have any of those unless you count heiden whom due to age cant take heavy abuse for to long..
I was steaming mad at first when i had heard we got a 3rd and 7th after it was comfirmed a 2nd and 5th i consider it a win/win trade that definately favors the browns unless mankok blows our draft..
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I agree Mike.
As for my grade on the trade, I hope that ManKok had Rucker on their respective draft boards last year because Heiden is oooooooollllllllllldddddddd.
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No doubt. If we draft some 255lb nose tackle out of Furman, it probably isn't going to be a good deal.
We draft a 315 lb guard out of Wisconsin who plays for 10 years, it will probably be viewed as a great deal, especially considering we did have Winslow through are probably going to be his most productive years.
If Winslow manages 4-5 more top seasons, it starts to swing to the bad again.
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No doubt. If we draft some 255lb nose tackle out of Furman, it probably isn't going to be a good deal.
We draft a 315 lb guard out of Wisconsin who plays for 10 years, it will probably be viewed as a great deal, especially considering we did have Winslow through are probably going to be his most productive years.
If Winslow manages 4-5 more top seasons, it starts to swing to the bad again.
No doubt. If we draft some 255lb nose tackle out of Furman, it probably isn't going to be a good deal.
We draft a 315 lb guard out of Wisconsin who plays for 10 years, it will probably be viewed as a great deal, especially considering we did have Winslow through are probably going to be his most productive years.
If Winslow manages 4-5 more top seasons, it starts to swing to the bad again.
Kellen has anywhere from no season to 3 seasons in form at best..due to his knee he could be knocked out forever in any given game or get a season ending injury at anytime as long as our pick is still playing well in 5 years we still get a great deal and if mankok gets a useful 5th next year it sweetens the pot...
Kw2 didnt look overly happy in his interview that he was traded of course our second rd pick likely isnt going to be to happy when he discovers hes been sentenced to serve in cleveland! hehehe
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No doubt. If we draft some 255lb nose tackle out of Furman, it probably isn't going to be a good deal.
We draft a 315 lb guard out of Wisconsin who plays for 10 years, it will probably be viewed as a great deal, especially considering we did have Winslow through are probably going to be his most productive years.
If Winslow manages 4-5 more top seasons, it starts to swing to the bad again.
Kellen has anywhere from no season to 3 seasons in form at best..due to his knee he could be knocked out forever in any given game or get a season ending injury at anytime as long as our pick is still playing well in 5 years we still get a great deal and if mankok gets a useful 5th next year it sweetens the pot...
Kw2 didnt look overly happy in his interview that he was traded of course our second rd pick likely isnt going to be to happy when he discovers hes been sentenced to serve in cleveland! hehehe
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Zombo said:
They default DA as the starter and don't even mention Quinn by name? Hmm.
Zombo
Noticed that too. Has the PD been given the smoke screen/flare gun orders also, or do they really think Quinn is the best back-up in the league?
Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck. -Don Shula -
Zombo said:
A second and a fifth is whole lot better than the third and 7th originally reported ... but now we have no tight end. Don't fool yourselves about the guys on the roster.But here is the interesting part of the article:
They default DA as the starter and don't even mention Quinn by name? Hmm.
Zombo
On the flip side, Kellen didn't mention DA's name. He said, "I enjoyed my time in Cleveland. I enjoyed playing with (pause) Braylon Edwards, (pause) Brady Quinn."
-Al
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Theres not much at TE in free agency, anyone we could pick up in the draft?
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How does Alex Mack grab you guys for a Round 2 selection? You think Heiden is old, well, Fraley is his grandpa. We need to continue to infuse this offensive line with talented youth to protect Quinn.
We certainly need help on defense and there is no doubt in my mind that two of those first three picks will go that direction. But Mangini's track record shows his love for lineman on both sides of the ball in the draft (Ferguson, Mangold, Robertson) and I'm feeling Alex Mack from Cal.
...searching for Nev Chandler..."5,4,3,2,1, Touchdown Browns!! -
Zombo said:
They default DA as the starter and don't even mention Quinn by name? Hmm.
Zombo
Noticed that too. Has the PD been given the smoke screen/flare gun orders also, or do they really think Quinn is the best back-up in the league?
Noticed that too. Has the PD been given the smoke screen/flare gun orders also, or do they really think Quinn is the best back-up in the league?
The wording was misleading. That isn't a grading written by the PD.
It was written by: Andrew Perna , Deputy Editor of RealGM.com
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How does Alex Mack grab you guys for a Round 2 selection? You think Heiden is old, well, Fraley is his grandpa. We need to continue to infuse this offensive line with talented youth to protect Quinn.
We certainly need help on defense and there is no doubt in my mind that two of those first three picks will go that direction. But Mangini's track record shows his love for lineman on both sides of the ball in the draft (Ferguson, Mangold, Robertson) and I'm feeling Alex Mack from Cal.
How does Alex Mack grab you guys for a Round 2 selection? You think Heiden is old, well, Fraley is his grandpa. We need to continue to infuse this offensive line with talented youth to protect Quinn.
We certainly need help on defense and there is no doubt in my mind that two of those first three picks will go that direction. But Mangini's track record shows his love for lineman on both sides of the ball in the draft (Ferguson, Mangold, Robertson) and I'm feeling Alex Mack from Cal.
I like Eric Wood. He's more brutish than the other guys at the top (Mack and Max Unger). Mike Mayock's knock on Mack is that he "spends too much time on the ground." That worries me when it comes to drafting a Center for the AFC North.
@standish said:
Theres not much at TE in free agency, anyone we could pick up in the draft?Brandon Pettigrew is one those old school TEs that can block and catch. He may not be utterly spectacular at either skill, but he is very solid at both. He's mid-late 1st round material. Buffalo may give him a look at #11, but I don't see him getting past Atlanta at #24. Oddly enough, nfldraftsite.com has him being selected by Tampa with the #50 pick...
Other than Pettigrew, TE is pretty thin in this year's draft.
-Al
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Geech,
Good stuff. Seems like you've researched the eligible centers somewhat. We also need someone with a little bit upstairs, too. Not to say Hank is stupid, but if he is replaced we need someone who knows what the hell is going on when Polamalu and Lewis are two inches from his face at the line of scrimmage.
...searching for Nev Chandler..."5,4,3,2,1, Touchdown Browns!! -
How does Alex Mack grab you guys for a Round 2 selection? You think Heiden is old, well, Fraley is his grandpa. We need to continue to infuse this offensive line with talented youth to protect Quinn.
We certainly need help on defense and there is no doubt in my mind that two of those first three picks will go that direction. But Mangini's track record shows his love for lineman on both sides of the ball in the draft (Ferguson, Mangold, Robertson) and I'm feeling Alex Mack from Cal.
I like Eric Wood. He's more brutish than the other guys at the top (Mack and Max Unger). Mike Mayock's knock on Mack is that he "spends too much time on the ground." That worries me when it comes to drafting a Center for the AFC North.
@standish said:
Theres not much at TE in free agency, anyone we could pick up in the draft?Brandon Pettigrew is one those old school TEs that can block and catch. He may not be utterly spectacular at either skill, but he is very solid at both. He's mid-late 1st round material. Buffalo may give him a look at #11, but I don't see him getting past Atlanta at #24. Oddly enough, nfldraftsite.com has him being selected by Tampa with the #50 pick...
Other than Pettigrew, TE is pretty thin in this year's draft.
-Al
I like Eric Wood. He's more brutish than the other guys at the top (Mack and Max Unger). Mike Mayock's knock on Mack is that he "spends too much time on the ground." That worries me when it comes to drafting a Center for the AFC North.
Brandon Pettigrew is one those old school TEs that can block and catch. He may not be utterly spectacular at either skill, but he is very solid at both. He's mid-late 1st round material. Buffalo may give him a look at #11, but I don't see him getting past Atlanta at #24. Oddly enough, nfldraftsite.com has him being selected by Tampa with the #50 pick...
Other than Pettigrew, TE is pretty thin in this year's draft.
-Al
LOL that is funny. 50th pick.
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How does Alex Mack grab you guys for a Round 2 selection? You think Heiden is old, well, Fraley is his grandpa. We need to continue to infuse this offensive line with talented youth to protect Quinn.
We certainly need help on defense and there is no doubt in my mind that two of those first three picks will go that direction. But Mangini's track record shows his love for lineman on both sides of the ball in the draft (Ferguson, Mangold, Robertson) and I'm feeling Alex Mack from Cal.
How does Alex Mack grab you guys for a Round 2 selection?
That would be a great 2nd round pick. There are 3-4 good centers in this draft, and all fall in that 2nd round range.
Mack, Ungar, The guy from Arkansas...can't think of the name at the moment...
I think there is a good chance we take a center with one of those 2nd round picks as they would have to be near the top of the board.
Solid talent at the center position this year.
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Geech,
Good stuff. Seems like you've researched the eligible centers somewhat. We also need someone with a little bit upstairs, too. Not to say Hank is stupid, but if he is replaced we need someone who knows what the hell is going on when Polamalu and Lewis are two inches from his face at the line of scrimmage.
Geech,
Good stuff. Seems like you've researched the eligible centers somewhat.
The key word there being "somewhat."
It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice. The "complete player" is a tag reserved for guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Jordan.
If you want a genius, then Alex Mack (6'4" 311) is the way to go. He won the Draddy Award (the scholastic equivalent of the Heisman), but he has a tendency to play too high and doesn't drive block all that well, especially in short yardage situations.
Eric Wood (6'4" 310) can improve in his drive blocking abilities against bigger DTs (who can't?), but he's at least decent, and has the potential to improve. He doesn't have the quickest feet and may have trouble with NFL speed rushing DTs, who aren't a dime a dozen, anyways. He's a good technician who uses his feet and hands to position himself well to go along with some of that brutishness.
Max Unger (6'5" 309) is a fantastic technician with good quickness, but doesn't rely on size and strength to get the job done.
These guys are all within 1 inch and 2 pounds of each other, but are very different players.
Antoine Caldwell (6'3" 309) is probably the next best after the top 3, but he's all brute with no quickness and not much between the ears, although he did make the line calls. He may be a better fit at OG.
I'll throw in A.Q. Shipley (6'1" 304) for good measure. He's a bowling ball of a former NT who will battle against the whole defense if given the chance. His footwork is adequate, but his lack of size and arm length may mean he'll be most effective in a zone scheme.
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Geech,
Good stuff. Seems like you've researched the eligible centers somewhat.
The key word there being "somewhat."
It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice. The "complete player" is a tag reserved for guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Jordan.
If you want a genius, then Alex Mack (6'4" 311) is the way to go. He won the Draddy Award (the scholastic equivalent of the Heisman), but he has a tendency to play too high and doesn't drive block all that well, especially in short yardage situations.
Eric Wood (6'4" 310) can improve in his drive blocking abilities against bigger DTs (who can't?), but he's at least decent, and has the potential to improve. He doesn't have the quickest feet and may have trouble with NFL speed rushing DTs, who aren't a dime a dozen, anyways. He's a good technician who uses his feet and hands to position himself well to go along with some of that brutishness.
Max Unger (6'5" 309) is a fantastic technician with good quickness, but doesn't rely on size and strength to get the job done.
These guys are all within 1 inch and 2 pounds of each other, but are very different players.
Antoine Caldwell (6'3" 309) is probably the next best after the top 3, but he's all brute with no quickness and not much between the ears, although he did make the line calls. He may be a better fit at OG.
I'll throw in A.Q. Shipley (6'1" 304) for good measure. He's a bowling ball of a former NT who will battle against the whole defense if given the chance. His footwork is adequate, but his lack of size and arm length may mean he'll be most effective in a zone scheme.
The key word there being "somewhat."
It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice. The "complete player" is a tag reserved for guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Jordan.
If you want a genius, then Alex Mack (6'4" 311) is the way to go. He won the Draddy Award (the scholastic equivalent of the Heisman), but he has a tendency to play too high and doesn't drive block all that well, especially in short yardage situations.
Eric Wood (6'4" 310) can improve in his drive blocking abilities against bigger DTs (who can't?), but he's at least decent, and has the potential to improve. He doesn't have the quickest feet and may have trouble with NFL speed rushing DTs, who aren't a dime a dozen, anyways. He's a good technician who uses his feet and hands to position himself well to go along with some of that brutishness.
Max Unger (6'5" 309) is a fantastic technician with good quickness, but doesn't rely on size and strength to get the job done.
These guys are all within 1 inch and 2 pounds of each other, but are very different players.
Antoine Caldwell (6'3" 309) is probably the next best after the top 3, but he's all brute with no quickness and not much between the ears, although he did make the line calls. He may be a better fit at OG.
I'll throw in A.Q. Shipley (6'1" 304) for good measure. He's a bowling ball of a former NT who will battle against the whole defense if given the chance. His footwork is adequate, but his lack of size and arm length may mean he'll be most effective in a zone scheme.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2009C.php
Jonathan Luigs as well, with a draft this deep in centers i wouldn't mind taking one in the 3rd, possibly even 4th if one slips...
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Geech,
Good stuff. Seems like you've researched the eligible centers somewhat.
The key word there being "somewhat."
It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice. The "complete player" is a tag reserved for guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Jordan.
If you want a genius, then Alex Mack (6'4" 311) is the way to go. He won the Draddy Award (the scholastic equivalent of the Heisman), but he has a tendency to play too high and doesn't drive block all that well, especially in short yardage situations.
Eric Wood (6'4" 310) can improve in his drive blocking abilities against bigger DTs (who can't?), but he's at least decent, and has the potential to improve. He doesn't have the quickest feet and may have trouble with NFL speed rushing DTs, who aren't a dime a dozen, anyways. He's a good technician who uses his feet and hands to position himself well to go along with some of that brutishness.
Max Unger (6'5" 309) is a fantastic technician with good quickness, but doesn't rely on size and strength to get the job done.
These guys are all within 1 inch and 2 pounds of each other, but are very different players.
Antoine Caldwell (6'3" 309) is probably the next best after the top 3, but he's all brute with no quickness and not much between the ears, although he did make the line calls. He may be a better fit at OG.
I'll throw in A.Q. Shipley (6'1" 304) for good measure. He's a bowling ball of a former NT who will battle against the whole defense if given the chance. His footwork is adequate, but his lack of size and arm length may mean he'll be most effective in a zone scheme.
The key word there being "somewhat."
It all depends on what you're willing to sacrifice. The "complete player" is a tag reserved for guys like Jerry Rice and Michael Jordan.
If you want a genius, then Alex Mack (6'4" 311) is the way to go. He won the Draddy Award (the scholastic equivalent of the Heisman), but he has a tendency to play too high and doesn't drive block all that well, especially in short yardage situations.
Eric Wood (6'4" 310) can improve in his drive blocking abilities against bigger DTs (who can't?), but he's at least decent, and has the potential to improve. He doesn't have the quickest feet and may have trouble with NFL speed rushing DTs, who aren't a dime a dozen, anyways. He's a good technician who uses his feet and hands to position himself well to go along with some of that brutishness.
Max Unger (6'5" 309) is a fantastic technician with good quickness, but doesn't rely on size and strength to get the job done.
These guys are all within 1 inch and 2 pounds of each other, but are very different players.
Antoine Caldwell (6'3" 309) is probably the next best after the top 3, but he's all brute with no quickness and not much between the ears, although he did make the line calls. He may be a better fit at OG.
I'll throw in A.Q. Shipley (6'1" 304) for good measure. He's a bowling ball of a former NT who will battle against the whole defense if given the chance. His footwork is adequate, but his lack of size and arm length may mean he'll be most effective in a zone scheme.
If the Browns' regime doesn't see that much of a difference among these guys then #50 is probably where we'll see them grab one out of this group. But that's assuming we don't add any more picks before the draft (don't move away from the phone, D.A.).
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