Jonathan Paul Manziel
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And leave the football talk to home security installers, realtors, screen print artists, farmers and saloon singers.
Precisely!
... but don't forget retired, High-school "ballers"..."When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I think if you read between the lines of what Farmer, Haslam , Pettine and now Flip are saying Manziel is as good as gone.
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
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but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
hard drinking is falling asleep at a bar or waking up on a bench clinging to a bottle of swill.
i didn't like drafting him and don't think he'll be much, if anything in the nfl but to say he's riding around on a lawnmower with a bottle of jack in his hands is a stretch.
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but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
hard drinking is falling asleep at a bar or waking up on a bench clinging to a bottle of swill.
i didn't like drafting him and don't think he'll be much, if anything in the nfl but to say he's riding around on a lawnmower with a bottle of jack in his hands is a stretch.
but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
hard drinking is falling asleep at a bar or waking up on a bench clinging to a bottle of swill.
i didn't like drafting him and don't think he'll be much, if anything in the nfl but to say he's riding around on a lawnmower with a bottle of jack in his hands is a stretch.
There are many abusive relationships with alcohol that are not the classic "alcoholism" you describe - but they can be equally damaging to a person's career if they don't get it under control and avoid drinking.
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
Courageous & accurate post sir.
I applaud you!
Mike
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
Congrats and 26 years clean here. I'll go so far as to agree he knows whether he is or not. Let's be clear though if it walks , acts like and hangs with ducks it's probably a duck. He definitely has the feathers and quacks going.GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
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Yep...well I feel like just this week the Browns are starting to separate themselves or publicly sending johnny a message....or both....
Flippo......."we dont even know if our QB is on the team"
Farmer...."we will leave no stone unturned......1st IS an option...."Talk is cheap"....etc
Pettine...."muddy at best"...
and now, all of a sudden, team mates and "inside sources" talking details about Johnny.....hmmmm...
Yep...well I feel like just this week the Browns are starting to separate themselves or publicly sending johnny a message....or both....
Flippo......."we dont even know if our QB is on the team"
Farmer...."we will leave no stone unturned......1st IS an option...."Talk is cheap"....etc
Pettine...."muddy at best"...
and now, all of a sudden, team mates and "inside sources" talking details about Johnny.....hmmmm...
They're not pretty either.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
Then you well know the stages of "denial". As one of the drug counselors I know has on his blackboard in letters a foot high YET. I can quit anytime I want to. Guy obviously is at least a problem drinker- if it affects your job- it's a problem. Having team security show up at your place in the morning and find you still hung over is a BIG problem.
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What Hoorta said. I have not used the label "alcoholic" intentionally. I have made it clear from over 30 years in the counseling business that I have always shied away from using that unproductive term. However, if someone is continually getting problems in their life because of drinking, then they have a drinking problem that needs to be addressed. JF's total surprise that he would screw up within less than a week from his commitment to change is a clear indication that something is terribly wrong. I hope he remembers that surprise next time he goes out after hours and has a repeat performance. That might be the wakeup call that tells him to seek a professional opinion and quit relying on "friends" that enable him to stay off track from what he really wants, a career as an NFL QB.
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IMHO it's more a matter of him 'not giving a fuck'. i think he got what he wanted by getting drafted in the first round (he prob thought he was top ten material) then came to camp last year and realized things weren't going to be given to him and when it was he crapped the bed. i think he's content with earning some extra loot sitting on the bench somewhere until he's out of the league, then he'll go open some firm with lebron on daddy's dime and fade into the sunset.
don't think he wants to be in cleveland and his continual screw-ups are a way for him to get out of his contract and go closer to home where everyone is still convinced he is great.
also don't think booze has anything to do with it. 22 and going out with friends is the NORM, sticking it to the owner who went out of his way to draft you, is not.
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Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself. I laugh at everyone trying to cast labels
around as if that is going to make sense of the situation.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict. From those experiences I can tell you that manziel certainly exhibits many of the same behaviors I did while I was out there getting it in. But the only one that truely knows is Johnny.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom. Everything will burn, every bridge will be smashed, before he finally admits what he is. I know it took my reaching the deepest depths of despair within the living hell I had created before I finally got the help I needed. It's sad because, like most addicts, at heart he is probably a great person with a high IQ and potential.
Our greatest hope is that he is simply a young kid going through a stage of hard drinking and idiotic decisions. That is something one can quickly recover from. Alcoholism and addiction on the other hand is another animal.
GuNNerGatSKy said:
Let's get something straight: the only person who truely knows if he has a drug or alcohol problem is Johnny Foosball himself.
I know first hand what it is to be a alcoholic/addict.
Unfortunately, if he truely is a alcoholic and/or an addict, it's almost a certainty he will not stop until he reaches absolute rock bottom.
Since you put it out there, may I ask whether ever "knew" before you hit bottom?
but there's no real evidence of him being a 'hard' drinker. going out to vegas and drinking champagne and swimming on a swan float is hardly evidence of that. like you said it's just idiotic 20 year oldish behavior.
True, but then he has "people" around him, some of whom may charged with seeing that he gets home. He's always out in the company of others; some are enablers no doubt, going shot-for-shot and providing whatever cover sociability extends to excess, but it's likely others are caretakers.
Or not...
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IMHO it's more a matter of him 'not giving a fuck'. i think he got what he wanted by getting drafted in the first round (he prob thought he was top ten material) then came to camp last year and realized things weren't going to be given to him and when it was he crapped the bed. i think he's content with earning some extra loot sitting on the bench somewhere until he's out of the league, then he'll go open some firm with lebron on daddy's dime and fade into the sunset.
don't think he wants to be in cleveland and his continual screw-ups are a way for him to get out of his contract and go closer to home where everyone is still convinced he is great.
also don't think booze has anything to do with it. 22 and going out with friends is the NORM, sticking it to the owner who went out of his way to draft you, is not.
IMHO it's more a matter of him 'not giving a fuck'. i think he got what he wanted by getting drafted in the first round (he prob thought he was top ten material) then came to camp last year and realized things weren't going to be given to him and when it was he crapped the bed. i think he's content with earning some extra loot sitting on the bench somewhere until he's out of the league, then he'll go open some firm with lebron on daddy's dime and fade into the sunset.
don't think he wants to be in cleveland and his continual screw-ups are a way for him to get out of his contract and go closer to home where everyone is still convinced he is great.
also don't think booze has anything to do with it. 22 and going out with friends is the NORM, sticking it to the owner who went out of his way to draft you, is not.
So it's his fame addiction vs. whatever he has going on with alcohol?
Until Week 15 the partying had only added to the fame. Now it would seem to be subtracting from it, racking up infamy points with every new Instagram.
No way LeBron does anything with JM should he wash out.
Struck me as I clicked "post" for my previous bit that we have not heard anything Johnny since Aspen, which was a true non-deal. No news would seem to be better, if not good, news...
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As long as we are playing Monday morning psychologist, I don't think he's an alcoholic. I think he's a young kid that drinks a lot like many many young kids I knew when I was 22, 23, 24 etc. Playing in a rock and roll band. First of all he's probably unrealistically confident. He believes that his God given ability will let him plows through anything. The people around him? Those are going to be people who think he's the coolest guy in the world and will likely not scold him.
Reading the very same article that blasted him for being unprepared you will also see that he is popular among his team-mates. Those who know him seemed to believe he has ability. What I would hope is for two things. First that this flood of bad publicity is a wake up call and a challenge and he sets his mind to overcoming it. Second I would hope the coaching staff does what they can and need to do to get him ready to play in the NFL. I don't know if that means tailoring an offense toward his capabilities but remember that's one of the reasons many of you hated Bill Belichick. Kosar didn't like to play the style of our fence Belichek asked of him. Phil savage said in essence the same thing. I'm hoping coach Mike is a little bit flexible and demanding.
Hopefully being seen in the national media as an asshole instead of a rockstar will have an effect on Johnny. I'm rooting for him now and hope he succeeds but if he doesn't I won't carry a lifetime grudge.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I'm thinkin he has a drinking problem...and who can expect him to
all of a sudden, get rid of that, change his party personality to a work
hard all day and night long personality, and stop saying stuff that sounds
good, then not backing it up.....
personally, I don't expect him to make the turnaround. Very sad. I guess the
qb coach figured if his coaching failed, it wouldn't be his fault, it would be Johnny's.
Include him in a trade with somebody and let them wait for three years for this knucklehed to get it.
I'm thinkin he has a drinking problem...and who can expect him to
all of a sudden, get rid of that, change his party personality to a work
hard all day and night long personality, and stop saying stuff that sounds
good, then not backing it up.....
personally, I don't expect him to make the turnaround. Very sad. I guess the
qb coach figured if his coaching failed, it wouldn't be his fault, it would be Johnny's.
Include him in a trade with somebody and let them wait for three years for this knucklehed to get it.
I don't have a drinking problem. Fall down, get back up, no problem.
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I don't see how it's "he's just a young rock star type of kid"...
he's missed meetings, left Peyton Mannings qb camp, been
late too often, missed therapy.
all the while, he says the right things, and acts like he means it.
That is very telling, the conflict between his self-destructive actions,
and his words.
I mean, Browns security had to go find him, and he was "drunk on his ass" ???
Come on, man.
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/9271/johnny-manziel
One player called Manziel a "100 percent joke." Team security reportedly found Manziel "drunk off his a--" the morning before the Browns' season finale. He was fined for missing a treatment for his injured hamstring and spent the Week 17 loss to Baltimore in Cleveland's locker room. During his first NFL start, "Several sources said Manziel either didn't know the plays in the huddle or didn't call them correctly." Sources also told Fowler and McManamon that since-departed OC Kyle Shanahan preferred Jimmy Garoppolo and Tom Savage to Manziel as a 2014 draft prospect. Fowler and McManamon claim Manziel still has some "support in the (Browns') building," though it's mostly "on the business side."
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See that? If true, Shanny wanted Garopollo.
Stupid ass Loggains - I guess he wanted Manziel to
enable him to find some babes who would hang out
with him, too.
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As long as we are playing Monday morning psychologist, I don't think he's an alcoholic. I think he's a young kid that drinks a lot like many many young kids I knew when I was 22, 23, 24 etc. Playing in a rock and roll band. First of all he's probably unrealistically confident. He believes that his God given ability will let him plows through anything. The people around him? Those are going to be people who think he's the coolest guy in the world and will likely not scold him.
Reading the very same article that blasted him for being unprepared you will also see that he is popular among his team-mates. Those who know him seemed to believe he has ability. What I would hope is for two things. First that this flood of bad publicity is a wake up call and a challenge and he sets his mind to overcoming it. Second I would hope the coaching staff does what they can and need to do to get him ready to play in the NFL. I don't know if that means tailoring an offense toward his capabilities but remember that's one of the reasons many of you hated Bill Belichick. Kosar didn't like to play the style of our fence Belichek asked of him. Phil savage said in essence the same thing. I'm hoping coach Mike is a little bit flexible and demanding.
Hopefully being seen in the national media as an asshole instead of a rockstar will have an effect on Johnny. I'm rooting for him now and hope he succeeds but if he doesn't I won't carry a lifetime grudge.
WSS
As long as we are playing Monday morning psychologist...
It's Sunday here... and I agree... similar take to mine.
For once you got it right...
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I'm really confused on any hard evidence any of you have that Manziel has a drinking problem. Jesus if someone was taking pictures of every time I was drinking in bars and clubs at 22 you all would have said I was an alcoholic bum. The guy has an attitude problem, that's for sure but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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In part it's pattern, jrb, but the report of him being awakened prior to the Week 17 road trip not just "hungover", but still "drunk on his ass" is both alarming and reinforces concerns attributed to his Dad about JM drinking.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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