How good Is Hoyer?
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Hoyer is a mediocre-talented quarterback who has problems with his confidence and, by extension, his accuracy.
He's also one of the most studious, professional, hard working guys in the league.
If he were on a team stocked with talent and didn't have to worry about losing his job, Hoyer could probably win you 10 games in a good season. With great playcalling and inseason management, maybe even 12.
Hoyer's ceiling is Matt Cassel in 2008/2010. Hoyer's floor is Matt Cassel in 2014.
Brian Hoyer is Matt Cassel. Finkle is Einhorn.
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The funny thing about the NFL is no matter how talented you are you get figured out as a QB after a while. Brian Hoyer despite his age was a new QB in 2014 for all important metrics. The run game was on fire and he just was asked to not turn the ball over. However, right around the Jacksonville game is when the flip switched and the "figuring out" occurred. The game was put on Hoyer to win from the first snap of the ball and he proved consistently he couldn't do it. I personally saw more than enough of this to realize it.
There's plenty of guys like Hoyer in the NFL who are coveted for their mediocre but good enough QB play. Look at guys like Drew Stanton, Shaun Hill, Mark Sanchez, Kyle Orton etc. These guys can go in and win you a short spurt of games when a true starter goes down but all get their game figured out sooner than later. That's what Hoyer is and it will be the same script if he's re-signed to start. I get it, that's probably better than Manziel but it's not good enough either.
The funny thing about the NFL is no matter how talented you are you get figured out as a QB after a while. Brian Hoyer despite his age was a new QB in 2014 for all important metrics. The run game was on fire and he just was asked to not turn the ball over. However, right around the Jacksonville game is when the flip switched and the "figuring out" occurred. The game was put on Hoyer to win from the first snap of the ball and he proved consistently he couldn't do it. I personally saw more than enough of this to realize it.
There's plenty of guys like Hoyer in the NFL who are coveted for their mediocre but good enough QB play. Look at guys like Drew Stanton, Shaun Hill, Mark Sanchez, Kyle Orton etc. These guys can go in and win you a short spurt of games when a true starter goes down but all get their game figured out sooner than later. That's what Hoyer is and it will be the same script if he's re-signed to start. I get it, that's probably better than Manziel but it's not good enough either.
That's a highly coveted list of quarterbacks you listed there, buddy.
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Except Johnny is a self entitled prick. Even if you don't buy into all of the media trash talk, our quarterback was such a douche that he got kicked out of a frat party. Do you know how hard it is to be kicked out of a frat party... As the all star quarterback of your school!
I hated the pick when it happened and he looks just like I thought he would in the pros. He's garbage and he doesn't have the drive to be anything better.
Except Johnny is a self entitled prick. Even if you don't buy into all of the media trash talk, our quarterback was such a douche that he got kicked out of a frat party. Do you know how hard it is to be kicked out of a frat party... As the all star quarterback of your school!
You need a fact checker. The frat he was kicked out of was at the University of Texas @ Austin. They positively hate the guy for making our entry into the SEC a major success when they wanted us so badly to fail because we left the Longhorn conference the were so busily constructing (same reason Neb. Colo and Mo. left).
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Except Johnny is a self entitled prick. Even if you don't buy into all of the media trash talk, our quarterback was such a douche that he got kicked out of a frat party. Do you know how hard it is to be kicked out of a frat party... As the all star quarterback of your school!
You need a fact checker. The frat he was kicked out of was at the University of Texas @ Austin. They positively hate the guy for making our entry into the SEC a major success when they wanted us so badly to fail because we left the Longhorn conference the were so busily constructing (same reason Neb. Colo and Mo. left).
You need a fact checker.
HA!......fact checking?.......here?.......thats a good one
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If starting Manziel is plan A for the Browns next season I just want a good plan B in place. This team has too much talent not to compete next season even with a tougher schedule.
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A mediocre quarterback? Within the context of the entire NFL, regardless of positioning within a depth chart, perhaps. But let's not create revisionist history and pretend that Hoyer was an average starting NFL signal caller this season because he was not. The fact remains that Brian rounded out 2014 near to last in every individual statistical category applicable to starting quarterbacks, many of whom were significantly younger and more inexperienced than him.
Did the team scratch out a collection of nice wins while he steered the ship (and nearly crashed it at some points)? Sure. Did he play marginally better than some past quarterbacks employed by the Browns? Yes. Unfortunately, football is not judged in a vacuum and neither of these answers is exclusive or even a strong indicator of prolonged quarterback success going forward. Do we appreciate the professionalism and exemplary work ethic that Hoyer brought to the team? Of course, however those qualities and a credit card are only good enough to get you season tickets. The fact remains that outside of a limited sample when nearly every other positional unit of the Browns was functioning at an incredible pace Hoyer performed well below the average NFL starting quarterback.
Now, if folks are campaigning for Hoyer because they simply feel as if the alternatives will never amount to anything better then I'd understand it to an extent but to suggest that Brian Hoyer will suddenly secrete some sort of new skill level at the age of 30 that four NFL teams have been unable to unearth? How does that definition of insanity, falsely attributed to Einstein, read again?
My personal opinion is that we all can reasonably project what the Browns ceiling is with Brian Hoyer at the helm and this projection falls substantially short of a Super Bowl, which is the ultimate goal. Does treading water in mediocrity bring the Browns closer to their end goal? I dont believe so, in fact I believe that finding that critical component necessary to charter a championship club (ie. difference maker at QB) will simply become that much more elusive as the organization becomes complacent enough with mediocracy and too fearful of losing to have the fortitude to make a change at that point.
I'd rather take a chance on the unknown that at one point was at least thought to have the upside to be a difference maker at the quarterback position. We can debate the merits and skill of Manziel until next year but the fact remains that a 22 year old with his pedigree does have upside. Did Johnny give any on-field indications of future success in his 7 quarters? He did not (outside of one Buffalo drive). Has Johnny acted like a petulant child? Yes. Thankfully we can rattle off past examples of young quarterbacks that also faltered early and/or refused their professional responsibilities only to eventually develop into quality starting quarterbacks. Even considering the high probability of default we still enjoy a material possibility for healthy returns on investment into this player.
I'd prefer that the organization fail in taking a chance of developing a champion to committing to a future that realistically has a ceiling lower than that of which we'd like.
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I like Hoyer and I put that question out there to see if anyone thought maybe Hoyer could get back to being the same quarterback that led the club to 6-3 midway through the season? I agree with the consensus here. As much as I like his attitude, work ethic and leadership I realistically see he will not be the quarterback to take us deep into the playoffs or even SB. Maybe he could be the bridge until we get the right quarterback? Manziel can say it isn't fair for him to be evaluated after only 7 quarters but he is a good one to talk about fairness. it wasn't fair for the Browns not to get his best from the start. Even backing up Hoyer he could have used that time absorbing the playbook.
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Don't count all those wins on Hoyer. He simply did what a QB is supposed to do most of the time. The Defense won games. They played lights out for a long time until injuries reared their ugly mugs once again.
Hoyer is fine, but my issue with Hoyer is... Is he all about what's best for the Browns or what's best for him. If he only wants to be here because he has a chance to start here because we have sucked at QB forever, then I say peace the fuck out. If he's really a true and through Browns Fan living his dream of playing with the Cleveland Browns he needs to embrace whatever role he has to take. Then, to me he's a man of his word and should get a fair chance to start. Every team needs that go-to guy that pulls out a heroic win when everything else fails and the starter goes down. He could be that guy, if he wants it. He would be a hometown hero and go down in history as legendary.
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
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VesnaKociper said:
He is the best QB the Browns have had since V2 circa 1999.
Nope unfortunatly I think Derek Anderson was our best QB since 1999. Wow thats painful to say but its the truth. Dont forget that his first year he set some Cleveland Browns franchise passing records..... Easily our best over the last 15 years.
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JAX was the first full game Mack was out.
JAX was the great McQuistan experiment... it was never repeated.
Hoyer threw one pick, late on a play where he got killed.
After JAX figured us out, we ran off three straight wins culminating in our best win of the season in Cinci #1.
JAX was the first full game Mack was out.
JAX was the great McQuistan experiment... it was never repeated.
Hoyer threw one pick, late on a play where he got killed.
After JAX figured us out, we ran off three straight wins culminating in our best win of the season in Cinci #1.
All true, but two 2 of those 3 wins came against the teams 1 and 4 in the draft this year. Again, I'm not saying Hoyer is terrible by any means but we've seen his ceiling as all the guys I mentioned in my previous comment. You can win with guys like that in conditions are perfect but when have the Browns ever had that?
That's a highly coveted list of quarterbacks you listed there, buddy.
For sure, there's always a good need for strong back-up talent in the NFL. Heck Stanton showed what can happen with that level of talent even. I guess the point I'm making here is though is I hope the JM shit-show doesn't make the Browns make a Ryan Fitzpatrick type offer and regret in 2 years down the road.
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VesnaKociper said:
He is the best QB the Browns have had since V2 circa 1999.
Nope unfortunatly I think Derek Anderson was our best QB since 1999. Wow thats painful to say but its the truth. Dont forget that his first year he set some Cleveland Browns franchise passing records..... Easily our best over the last 15 years.
I think a few of the quarterbacks would have looked good in the early part of last season when the team was firing on all 8 cylinders.Nope unfortunatly I think Derek Anderson was our best QB since 1999. Wow thats painful to say but its the truth. Dont forget that his first year he set some Cleveland Browns franchise passing records..... Easily our best over the last 15 years.
Had we taken Tim Couch in the last draft I think things would be looking pretty damn rosey today.
WSS
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Conditions have been perfect for Hoyer going 10-6 vs. 1-15 with anyone else?
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Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99.
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Short answer: not very good but the best shot we have unless we commit to fail for cardale
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I don't know how you can lose drafting Cardale. If he doesn't work out as QB, defensive end would work next.
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I liked Hoyer when I saw him come in and win games when nobody else was getting the job done. I'm hoping he will be reasonable on a contract and we resign him.
Instead of "perfect" I like to think "we can win with Hoyer if there are enough right ideas around him" with all other facets of the team and within a game. If there's a better FA or a trade that can be made, go for it, but at this point, bringing Hoyer back is the best "bridge" - and like it or not, the bridge could be all the way to Sept. 2017 - and "best chance to win the next game."
The most optimistic way of looking at JFF and JFF vs. Hoyer/Shaw/whomever is he's entering his rookie year again. He flunked last year and is having to repeat the grade level.
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Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99.
Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99.
Except that he did?
He went to Arizona and started for two years.
Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam.
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Anderson may have been our best but even with him he didn't go somewhere else and start. We just haven't found the right QB since 99.
Except that he did?
He went to Arizona and started for two years.
Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam.
Except that he did?
He went to Arizona and started for two years.
Then he went to Carolina the same year they drafted Cam.
1 year.
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I was wrong he did start some with the Cardinals but bottom line he was no success story:
On March 17, 2010, Anderson signed a two-year deal worth $7.25 million with the Arizona Cardinals.[6] After Kurt Warner retired and Matt Leinart was released, Anderson became the starting quarterback for the Cardinals. After struggling in his first few games, Anderson was benched in favor of rookie Max Hall on October 6. Anderson was named the starting quarterback again for the November 7 game against the Minnesota Vikings after Hall struggled.[7] However in week 14 he was benched again after suffering a concussion and was replaced with Hall, whose season ended with a separated shoulder later in the game. Rookie John Skelton finished the game and succeeded Anderson as the Cardinals' starting quarterback. Anderson also created a notable soundbite after being caught on national TV laughing with teammate Deuce Lutui while he and his team were playing poorly. His subsequent anger toward the reporter who asked why he was laughing made national news and was featured on several sports shows.[8]
Anderson was released by the Cardinals on July 28, 2011.
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