"Browns won't target a WR in the first round"
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But you shouldn't use just one example to make a conclusion...
like with a lot of positions, it's a hit or miss. It depends on a lot of things...
can a team sign good free agents because they are a playoff team?
How badly does a team need to upgrade the wr's they have, through the draft,
if not through FA?
Does a team have most of the pieces in place, but they need that #1 wr?
Green has been a star for the Bengals...
I think the most dramatic addition to the Browns this year, would be a star wr to replace
Gordon. I think that guy is White.
Here's a pretty cool list of first and second round wr's....
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In the championship round there was one WR on all four teams combined that was a first round pick. That guy, Hakeem Nicks, was nothing more than a depth guy for the Colts who played zero role in their season or the playoffs. I've been preaching to anyone who will listen that WR is absolutely not a position to draft in the first round unless the value is incredible. The best teams do this and so should the Browns. Strengthen the defense, anchor the line and then find your WR corp.
In the championship round there was one WR on all four teams combined that was a first round pick. That guy, Hakeem Nicks, was nothing more than a depth guy for the Colts who played zero role in their season or the playoffs. I've been preaching to anyone who will listen that WR is absolutely not a position to draft in the first round unless the value is incredible. The best teams do this and so should the Browns. Strengthen the defense, anchor the line and then find your WR corp.
I agree, but it's not like that's a cut and paste strategy that works for every team. Even the two championship teams have very different strategies. Tale a look at their starting players' draft positions in the trenches.
Seahawks-
Russell Okung LT - 1st round pick by Seattle
James Carpenter- LG - 1st round pick by Seattle
Max Unger C - 2nd round pick by Seattle
J.R. Sweezy RG- 7th round pick by Seattle
Justin Britt RT - 2nd round pick by Seattle
Michael Bennett LE - Undrafted by Seahawks
Tony McDaniel DT - Undrafted by Jaguars
Kevin Williams DT - 1st round pick by the Vikings
Cliff Avril RE - 3rd round pick by the Lions
Patriots -
Nate Solder LT - 1st round pick by the Patriots
Dan Connolly LG - Undrafted by Jaguars
Bryan Stork C - 4th round pick for Patriots
Ryan Wendell RG - Undrafted by Patriots
Sebastian Vollmer RT - 2nd round pick by Patriots
Rob Ninkovich LE - 5th round pick by the Saints
Vince Wilfork DT - 1st round pick by the Patriots
Chris Jones DT - 6th round pick by the Texans
Chandler Jones RE - 1st round pick by the Patriots
The Seahawks invested heavily in their offensive line, with two first round picks, two second round picks, and then a draft gem in 7th round pick J.R. Sweezy. In contrast, the Patriots offensive line features only one first round pick, one second round pick, one fourth round pick and two undrafted players.
Seattle's defensive line (in a four man front) features two undrafted players, a 3rd round pick and one first round pick. Only one player on the Seahawks defensive line was drafted by Seattle. Their talent is accumulated at DT and RE, with Williams and Avril. The Patriots are slightly similar, they have their best talent at one DT position and then at RE. Only those two players were drafted by the Patriots.
Everybody here is so fucking hung up on draft position. Oh, first round this, first round that. You never take this player in this round because x. It's stupid to take a player at this position because so-and-so team didn't do it and look at their success.
There are an infinite number of variables that can be to blame for why one team is good and another isn't - not just because one team has a first round something and the other team doesn't. We don't need to draft two offensive guards with our first two picks just because Seattle has one. We don't need to wait until the 6th round to take a quarterback because the Patriots experienced success with Brady. We need an identity and, more importantly, we need to stick with it.
You take whatever player you need, when you need him, if you believe he is the best prospect for the identity you're trying to build. If that's a smash-mouth running team, you don't need to invest in an early WR, you need to invest in an offensive line. If you want to build a read-option, vertical threat team, you better get a receiver that can stretch the field and attack the ball and a quarterback who can run the system. The Panthers couldn't run the Patriots offense just like the Patriots couldn't run the Panthers.
You give nearly any coach 5-6 solid years to build his foundation and draft his own players to fit his own scheme with no interference from management, I'm sure he can field a championship level team. That's why the Patriots can stay at or near the top despite having completely different personnel. The personnel they do have fits the overall identity Belichick wants to run.
Imagine if the Seahawks fired Carroll after he only won 7 games in his first year. He just happened to get lucky, because 7 wins that season was enough to win the then-shitty NFC West.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Well there go my Hopes for Jaelen Strong
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In the championship round there was one WR on all four teams combined that was a first round pick. That guy, Hakeem Nicks, was nothing more than a depth guy for the Colts who played zero role in their season or the playoffs. I've been preaching to anyone who will listen that WR is absolutely not a position to draft in the first round unless the value is incredible. The best teams do this and so should the Browns. Strengthen the defense, anchor the line and then find your WR corp.
I agree, but it's not like that's a cut and paste strategy that works for every team. Even the two championship teams have very different strategies. Tale a look at their starting players' draft positions in the trenches.
Seahawks-
Russell Okung LT - 1st round pick by Seattle
James Carpenter- LG - 1st round pick by Seattle
Max Unger C - 2nd round pick by Seattle
J.R. Sweezy RG- 7th round pick by Seattle
Justin Britt RT - 2nd round pick by Seattle
Michael Bennett LE - Undrafted by Seahawks
Tony McDaniel DT - Undrafted by Jaguars
Kevin Williams DT - 1st round pick by the Vikings
Cliff Avril RE - 3rd round pick by the Lions
Patriots -
Nate Solder LT - 1st round pick by the Patriots
Dan Connolly LG - Undrafted by Jaguars
Bryan Stork C - 4th round pick for Patriots
Ryan Wendell RG - Undrafted by Patriots
Sebastian Vollmer RT - 2nd round pick by Patriots
Rob Ninkovich LE - 5th round pick by the Saints
Vince Wilfork DT - 1st round pick by the Patriots
Chris Jones DT - 6th round pick by the Texans
Chandler Jones RE - 1st round pick by the Patriots
The Seahawks invested heavily in their offensive line, with two first round picks, two second round picks, and then a draft gem in 7th round pick J.R. Sweezy. In contrast, the Patriots offensive line features only one first round pick, one second round pick, one fourth round pick and two undrafted players.
Seattle's defensive line (in a four man front) features two undrafted players, a 3rd round pick and one first round pick. Only one player on the Seahawks defensive line was drafted by Seattle. Their talent is accumulated at DT and RE, with Williams and Avril. The Patriots are slightly similar, they have their best talent at one DT position and then at RE. Only those two players were drafted by the Patriots.
Everybody here is so fucking hung up on draft position. Oh, first round this, first round that. You never take this player in this round because x. It's stupid to take a player at this position because so-and-so team didn't do it and look at their success.
There are an infinite number of variables that can be to blame for why one team is good and another isn't - not just because one team has a first round something and the other team doesn't. We don't need to draft two offensive guards with our first two picks just because Seattle has one. We don't need to wait until the 6th round to take a quarterback because the Patriots experienced success with Brady. We need an identity and, more importantly, we need to stick with it.
You take whatever player you need, when you need him, if you believe he is the best prospect for the identity you're trying to build. If that's a smash-mouth running team, you don't need to invest in an early WR, you need to invest in an offensive line. If you want to build a read-option, vertical threat team, you better get a receiver that can stretch the field and attack the ball and a quarterback who can run the system. The Panthers couldn't run the Patriots offense just like the Patriots couldn't run the Panthers.
You give nearly any coach 5-6 solid years to build his foundation and draft his own players to fit his own scheme with no interference from management, I'm sure he can field a championship level team. That's why the Patriots can stay at or near the top despite having completely different personnel. The personnel they do have fits the overall identity Belichick wants to run.
Imagine if the Seahawks fired Carroll after he only won 7 games in his first year. He just happened to get lucky, because 7 wins that season was enough to win the then-shitty NFC West.
I agree, but it's not like that's a cut and paste strategy that works for every team. Even the two championship teams have very different strategies. Tale a look at their starting players' draft positions in the trenches.
Seahawks-
Russell Okung LT - 1st round pick by Seattle
James Carpenter- LG - 1st round pick by Seattle
Max Unger C - 2nd round pick by Seattle
J.R. Sweezy RG- 7th round pick by Seattle
Justin Britt RT - 2nd round pick by Seattle
Michael Bennett LE - Undrafted by Seahawks
Tony McDaniel DT - Undrafted by Jaguars
Kevin Williams DT - 1st round pick by the Vikings
Cliff Avril RE - 3rd round pick by the Lions
Patriots -
Nate Solder LT - 1st round pick by the Patriots
Dan Connolly LG - Undrafted by Jaguars
Bryan Stork C - 4th round pick for Patriots
Ryan Wendell RG - Undrafted by Patriots
Sebastian Vollmer RT - 2nd round pick by Patriots
Rob Ninkovich LE - 5th round pick by the Saints
Vince Wilfork DT - 1st round pick by the Patriots
Chris Jones DT - 6th round pick by the Texans
Chandler Jones RE - 1st round pick by the Patriots
The Seahawks invested heavily in their offensive line, with two first round picks, two second round picks, and then a draft gem in 7th round pick J.R. Sweezy. In contrast, the Patriots offensive line features only one first round pick, one second round pick, one fourth round pick and two undrafted players.
Seattle's defensive line (in a four man front) features two undrafted players, a 3rd round pick and one first round pick. Only one player on the Seahawks defensive line was drafted by Seattle. Their talent is accumulated at DT and RE, with Williams and Avril. The Patriots are slightly similar, they have their best talent at one DT position and then at RE. Only those two players were drafted by the Patriots.
Everybody here is so fucking hung up on draft position. Oh, first round this, first round that. You never take this player in this round because x. It's stupid to take a player at this position because so-and-so team didn't do it and look at their success.
There are an infinite number of variables that can be to blame for why one team is good and another isn't - not just because one team has a first round something and the other team doesn't. We don't need to draft two offensive guards with our first two picks just because Seattle has one. We don't need to wait until the 6th round to take a quarterback because the Patriots experienced success with Brady. We need an identity and, more importantly, we need to stick with it.
You take whatever player you need, when you need him, if you believe he is the best prospect for the identity you're trying to build. If that's a smash-mouth running team, you don't need to invest in an early WR, you need to invest in an offensive line. If you want to build a read-option, vertical threat team, you better get a receiver that can stretch the field and attack the ball and a quarterback who can run the system. The Panthers couldn't run the Patriots offense just like the Patriots couldn't run the Panthers.
You give nearly any coach 5-6 solid years to build his foundation and draft his own players to fit his own scheme with no interference from management, I'm sure he can field a championship level team. That's why the Patriots can stay at or near the top despite having completely different personnel. The personnel they do have fits the overall identity Belichick wants to run.
Imagine if the Seahawks fired Carroll after he only won 7 games in his first year. He just happened to get lucky, because 7 wins that season was enough to win the then-shitty NFC West.
I hear what you're saying, but that still doesn't really change my mind. I get what you're going for and I don't inherently disagree. I'm very much of the mindset to have a BPA approach in terms of positions of need-which WR is clearly one. However, if I'm looking at the draft sitting there at #12 and there's equal value at DT or OLB/DE and WR, I'm taking the former two in a second. This appears to clearly be the approach of Farmer as well and some of the top teams in the NFL. I'm not going to shake my fist if we take a 1st round WR (I think Davonte Parker is the dude this year) but without a QB the whole point is moot.
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Absolutely ridiculous!
Take a fucking wideout, they need one badly!!! -
Absolutely ridiculous!
Take a fucking wideout, they need one badly!!!Absolutely ridiculous!
Take a fucking wideout, they need one badly!!!
Hey we could use a kicker. Let's use the first pic on that. Oh and since Pontbriand retired we could use another All Pro long snapper. So there is pick one and two of the first round. Thanks for thinking of it.
WSS
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Absolutely ridiculous!
Take a fucking wideout, they need one badly!!!
Hey we could use a kicker. Let's use the first pic on that. Oh and since Pontbriand retired we could use another All Pro long snapper. So there is pick one and two of the first round. Thanks for thinking of it.
WSS
Hey we could use a kicker. Let's use the first pic on that. Oh and since Pontbriand retired we could use another All Pro long snapper. So there is pick one and two of the first round. Thanks for thinking of it.
WSS
Since the Browns have 10 picks....I would definitely consider a kicker in like round 6-7.
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There's a strong group of WR's in FA this year.....id hope to see Farmer to tab one from this group and save those higher picks for the non skill need positions.....DL - LB - OL.....
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Hey we could use a kicker. Let's use the first pic on that. Oh and since Pontbriand retired we could use another All Pro long snapper. So there is pick one and two of the first round. Thanks for thinking of it.
WSS
Since the Browns have 10 picks....I would definitely consider a kicker in like round 6-7.
I was of course kidding about our first two pics but hey if you could get Adam Vinatieri, Sebastian Janikowski or Ray Guy, I'd be happy to spend a 4. or 5.Since the Browns have 10 picks....I would definitely consider a kicker in like round 6-7.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Just for the record the Browns have an all pro number one receiver. The team plays better when he is suspended. Another great reason not to cut him!
WSS
Just for the record the Browns have an all pro number one receiver. The team plays better when he is suspended. Another great reason not to cut him!
WSS
Why cut him? If we keep him like you say, he will never see the field because he cannot stop making bad decisions. He doesn't even own up to them, he has excuses. Until then he is the most worthless all-pro receiver in the league. Better to just be rid of him.
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I was of course kidding about our first two pics but hey if you could get Adam Vinatieri, Sebastian Janikowski or Ray Guy, I'd be happy to spend a 4. or 5.Since the Browns have 10 picks....I would definitely consider a kicker in like round 6-7.
WSS
I was of course kidding about our first two pics but hey if you could get Adam Vinatieri, Sebastian Janikowski or Ray Guy, I'd be happy to spend a 4. or 5.
WSS
JK Scott could be the next Ray Guy.
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I was of course kidding about our first two pics but hey if you could get Adam Vinatieri, Sebastian Janikowski or Ray Guy, I'd be happy to spend a 4. or 5.Since the Browns have 10 picks....I would definitely consider a kicker in like round 6-7.
WSS
I was of course kidding about our first two pics but hey if you could get Adam Vinatieri, Sebastian Janikowski or Ray Guy, I'd be happy to spend a 4. or 5.
WSS
I agree. Teams that need a kicker usually start drafting them in round 4. I'd even go as high as 3 if to get the right guy. Once you get one it's not like you are going to need to draft another for maybe 15-20 years.
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The QB makes the WR good, not the other way around.
How good were Demaryius Thomas' seasons before Peyton?
How good is Jennings after he left Rodgers?
We need a good QB. We do not need WR.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
The QB makes the WR good, not the other way around.
How good were Demaryius Thomas' seasons before Peyton?
How good is Jennings after he left Rodgers?
We need a good QB. We do not need WR.
The QB makes the WR good, not the other way around.
How good were Demaryius Thomas' seasons before Peyton?
How good is Jennings after he left Rodgers?
We need a good QB. We do not need WR.
Ding ding ding. Superbowl was a bunch of nobody wr corps. Just need wr who don't have stone hands.
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The QB makes the WR good, not the other way around.
How good were Demaryius Thomas' seasons before Peyton?
How good is Jennings after he left Rodgers?
We need a good QB. We do not need WR.
The QB makes the WR good, not the other way around.
How good were Demaryius Thomas' seasons before Peyton?
How good is Jennings after he left Rodgers?
We need a good QB. We do not need WR.
No no no, on good teams with good QBs, the QB makes the WR good.
But on bad teams with bad QB's, the WR makes the QB good.
Case and point, Josh Gordon when he played with Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell
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The QB makes the WR good, not the other way around.
How good were Demaryius Thomas' seasons before Peyton?
How good is Jennings after he left Rodgers?
We need a good QB. We do not need WR.
No no no, on good teams with good QBs, the QB makes the WR good.
But on bad teams with bad QB's, the WR makes the QB good.
Case and point, Josh Gordon when he played with Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell
No no no, on good teams with good QBs, the QB makes the WR good.
But on bad teams with bad QB's, the WR makes the QB good.
Case and point, Josh Gordon when he played with Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell
The flaw in your argument is that those qbs didn't win dick. Gordon got a lot of garbage time stats but those qbs rarely looked good.
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One thing Farmer has said time and again is they want to improve at every position. The Browns don't have a very good receiver on the roster so you upgrade when possible.
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No no no, on good teams with good QBs, the QB makes the WR good.
But on bad teams with bad QB's, the WR makes the QB good.
Case and point, Josh Gordon when he played with Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell
The flaw in your argument is that those qbs didn't win dick. Gordon got a lot of garbage time stats but those qbs rarely looked good.
The flaw in your argument is that those qbs didn't win dick. Gordon got a lot of garbage time stats but those qbs rarely looked good.
I said they were bad QBs obviously they didn't win shit I said they were bad. Did you miss that part?
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No no no, on good teams with good QBs, the QB makes the WR good.
But on bad teams with bad QB's, the WR makes the QB good.
Case and point, Josh Gordon when he played with Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell
The flaw in your argument is that those qbs didn't win dick. Gordon got a lot of garbage time stats but those qbs rarely looked good.
The flaw in your argument is that those qbs didn't win dick. Gordon got a lot of garbage time stats but those qbs rarely looked good.
I think his main argument is that it's not one way or the other.
Put a guy talented enough at any position, he'll overcome the talent deficit at his complementary position.
For the "QB makes a WR good" theory, though...a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that a good QB both distributes the ball well and recognizes both when and where open receivers are or will be. The best WR is an open one.
There are few instances of a franchise QB just hitting a single WR over and over and over for the duration of either of their careers. There are instances, sure, namely Jerry Rice and Montana/Young. But, generally speaking, I think you'll see a more even pass distribution with truly upper echelon franchise QB's (Manning, Brady, Rodgers) than their counterparts.
It's one of those chicken and the egg scenarios. Does a great receiver command more targets because he's great or do quarterbacks target him more because everyone else sucks?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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