Pluto on Rogers vs. Mangini I
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Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
>>4. Mangini has been taking an odd stance of not wanting to talk to players, or at least that is the impression being given to some of his key players. Mangini would rather sit down and talk to players at length, but the coach needs to understand that a short call or e-mail is a good way to let the players know he is interested in them. This is the text-message, e-mail generation.
5. Some fans say "Who cares if Mangini stiffed Rogers, my boss doesn't talk to me." Or, "If I made $6 million, my boss can ignore me forever."
There is no relation between pro sports and the real world. These are millionaires in a bubble, they have been spoiled their entire professional lives. To them, special treatment is a perk of the job. Also, in real life, rarely does an employee earn more than the boss -- as is often the case in pro sports. <<
On #4--The coach runs the team, and hopefully gets them to do what he wants, which hopefully will make the team better. I've had several jobs in my life, and not one of them featured a boss coming up to me two months after I started and saying, "Alright, here's what I need you to do." Presumably you let guys know what you're thinking sooner, especially if they're, I dunno, the key to your defensive front.
On #5--I'm calling BS on this one. As I said, I've never had a job in which my boss didn't talk to me. Forget being nice, it's just smart business to know your employees. Also, at what point did "the boss says hello" become "special treatment"? Also, Pluto is a sportswriter...you know, the guys who try to run coaches out of town if they don't start every answer with, "That's a really great question, Terry, and are you regrowing your hair a bit?"
Do I want the coach washing his players' cars for them? Of course not; that's what the coaches' kids are for. Would I like to think that the coach is willing to communicate with the guys he's going to try to lead? That might help. Do I think that "He'll talk to them when they need to be talked to" is a stupid way to run any business, much less one that has about fifty employees, all of whom are integral to making things work? Yes. Very yes.
Dennis
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Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
>>4. Mangini has been taking an odd stance of not wanting to talk to players, or at least that is the impression being given to some of his key players. Mangini would rather sit down and talk to players at length, but the coach needs to understand that a short call or e-mail is a good way to let the players know he is interested in them. This is the text-message, e-mail generation.
5. Some fans say "Who cares if Mangini stiffed Rogers, my boss doesn't talk to me." Or, "If I made $6 million, my boss can ignore me forever."
There is no relation between pro sports and the real world. These are millionaires in a bubble, they have been spoiled their entire professional lives. To them, special treatment is a perk of the job. Also, in real life, rarely does an employee earn more than the boss -- as is often the case in pro sports. <<
On #4--The coach runs the team, and hopefully gets them to do what he wants, which hopefully will make the team better. I've had several jobs in my life, and not one of them featured a boss coming up to me two months after I started and saying, "Alright, here's what I need you to do." Presumably you let guys know what you're thinking sooner, especially if they're, I dunno, the key to your defensive front.
On #5--I'm calling BS on this one. As I said, I've never had a job in which my boss didn't talk to me. Forget being nice, it's just smart business to know your employees. Also, at what point did "the boss says hello" become "special treatment"? Also, Pluto is a sportswriter...you know, the guys who try to run coaches out of town if they don't start every answer with, "That's a really great question, Terry, and are you regrowing your hair a bit?"
Do I want the coach washing his players' cars for them? Of course not; that's what the coaches' kids are for. Would I like to think that the coach is willing to communicate with the guys he's going to try to lead? That might help. Do I think that "He'll talk to them when they need to be talked to" is a stupid way to run any business, much less one that has about fifty employees, all of whom are integral to making things work? Yes. Very yes.
Dennis
Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
Dennis
GREAT post Dennis! Thanks! Alot of Pluto's takes look like they come from that planet.
I read another excerpt and can't remember where - maybe Jupiter. But this one was insinuating Mangini wasn't going to talk to Shaun until after he showed a certain amount of weight loss. It painted Mangini as a real basterd and yet it came from someone in the bandwagon that said this team doesn't need another best friend coaching it. Tough to tell what they want. However, if the ONLY substance of it all was Mangini wants Rogers showiing up with better endurance so we can get more snaps out of him - well, GRAET coaches always challenge the things his players need to improve upon.
Our problems in the past and present are getting guys to put together back to back GOOD seasons, whether it's at RB, oline, QB or wherever. Jamal Lewis played inspired football in 2007 by showing up 15-18 pounds lighter. He had some giddyup that he lacked following the 2008 contract extension/signing bonus.
- Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
>>4. Mangini has been taking an odd stance of not wanting to talk to players, or at least that is the impression being given to some of his key players. Mangini would rather sit down and talk to players at length, but the coach needs to understand that a short call or e-mail is a good way to let the players know he is interested in them. This is the text-message, e-mail generation.
5. Some fans say "Who cares if Mangini stiffed Rogers, my boss doesn't talk to me." Or, "If I made $6 million, my boss can ignore me forever."
There is no relation between pro sports and the real world. These are millionaires in a bubble, they have been spoiled their entire professional lives. To them, special treatment is a perk of the job. Also, in real life, rarely does an employee earn more than the boss -- as is often the case in pro sports. <<
On #4--The coach runs the team, and hopefully gets them to do what he wants, which hopefully will make the team better. I've had several jobs in my life, and not one of them featured a boss coming up to me two months after I started and saying, "Alright, here's what I need you to do." Presumably you let guys know what you're thinking sooner, especially if they're, I dunno, the key to your defensive front.
On #5--I'm calling BS on this one. As I said, I've never had a job in which my boss didn't talk to me. Forget being nice, it's just smart business to know your employees. Also, at what point did "the boss says hello" become "special treatment"? Also, Pluto is a sportswriter...you know, the guys who try to run coaches out of town if they don't start every answer with, "That's a really great question, Terry, and are you regrowing your hair a bit?"
Do I want the coach washing his players' cars for them? Of course not; that's what the coaches' kids are for. Would I like to think that the coach is willing to communicate with the guys he's going to try to lead? That might help. Do I think that "He'll talk to them when they need to be talked to" is a stupid way to run any business, much less one that has about fifty employees, all of whom are integral to making things work? Yes. Very yes.
Dennis
On #4--The coach runs the team, and hopefully gets them to do what he wants, which hopefully will make the team better. I've had several jobs in my life, and not one of them featured a boss coming up to me two months after I started and saying, "Alright, here's what I need you to do." Presumably you let guys know what you're thinking sooner, especially if they're, I dunno, the key to your defensive front.
Dennis
That's because you are on the job every day. This is one loooong "holiday shut down week" for the team. If, during your one or two week holiday shut down, you're boss was replaced, would you expect him to call you and talk to you before everyone went back to work next week?
I know that the NFL is a different business altogether, but Mangini had alot to do with assembling his staff, streamlining team HQ, etc., etc. If Rogers wanted to come to Berea and take advantage of the facility, I'm sure Mangini would have been more than willing to talk to him.
I think this "snub" is being blown way out of proportion. Mangini came to a function with alot of other things on his mind, made his brief appearance, then went back to work. Maybe he can be faulted for not stopping to think that some Browns players would be at the function and to look for them to at least give them a greeting. Or maybe he was just being an ass and didn't care if any players were there. Either way, I don't care. This team needs an ass. By most accounts from players (such as Cribbs) and former players (such as McGinnest), this team needs some cold hearted discipline.
-Al
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Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
Dennis
GREAT post Dennis! Thanks! Alot of Pluto's takes look like they come from that planet.
I read another excerpt and can't remember where - maybe Jupiter. But this one was insinuating Mangini wasn't going to talk to Shaun until after he showed a certain amount of weight loss. It painted Mangini as a real basterd and yet it came from someone in the bandwagon that said this team doesn't need another best friend coaching it. Tough to tell what they want. However, if the ONLY substance of it all was Mangini wants Rogers showiing up with better endurance so we can get more snaps out of him - well, GRAET coaches always challenge the things his players need to improve upon.
Our problems in the past and present are getting guys to put together back to back GOOD seasons, whether it's at RB, oline, QB or wherever. Jamal Lewis played inspired football in 2007 by showing up 15-18 pounds lighter. He had some giddyup that he lacked following the 2008 contract extension/signing bonus.
- Tom F.
Jamal Lewis played inspired football in 2007 by showing up 15-18 pounds lighter. He had some giddyup that he lacked following the 2008 contract extension/signing bonus.
sorry Tom, it was the other way around.- Tom F.
Jamal was heavier in '07 and dropped weight last year. he will be returning to his '07 "off-field" form this season and i for one hope this change allows him to regain his '07 "on-field' form as well.
i feel like i'm the only one who understands the correllation between his '07 weight/performance vs. '08. without this understanding i would not be putting stock in him all over this board.
Jamal's weight/physique change going into '08 led to his decline in performance, not age, wear and tear, etc.
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I dont believe for one minute that mangini didnt see rogers he is an unavoidable mountain of man with an extremely exclusive looking mug that could easily be seen from one end to the other....
I dont believe for one minute that mangini didnt see rogers he is an unavoidable mountain of man with an extremely exclusive looking mug that could easily be seen from one end to the other....
Read the story man. Mangini had his back turned and was talking to Eric Wedge when Rogers walked behind him. Mangini never new he was there. He just went down to give out an award and left. It wasn't like he was at this banquet all night and stayed on the other side of the room from the guy.
You couldn't see the house if your back was turned to it.................................give the man a break
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Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
Dennis
GREAT post Dennis! Thanks! Alot of Pluto's takes look like they come from that planet.
I read another excerpt and can't remember where - maybe Jupiter. But this one was insinuating Mangini wasn't going to talk to Shaun until after he showed a certain amount of weight loss. It painted Mangini as a real basterd and yet it came from someone in the bandwagon that said this team doesn't need another best friend coaching it. Tough to tell what they want. However, if the ONLY substance of it all was Mangini wants Rogers showiing up with better endurance so we can get more snaps out of him - well, GRAET coaches always challenge the things his players need to improve upon.
Our problems in the past and present are getting guys to put together back to back GOOD seasons, whether it's at RB, oline, QB or wherever. Jamal Lewis played inspired football in 2007 by showing up 15-18 pounds lighter. He had some giddyup that he lacked following the 2008 contract extension/signing bonus.
- Tom F.
GREAT post Dennis! Thanks! Alot of Pluto's takes look like they come from that planet.
I read another excerpt and can't remember where - maybe Jupiter. But this one was insinuating Mangini wasn't going to talk to Shaun until after he showed a certain amount of weight loss. It painted Mangini as a real basterd and yet it came from someone in the bandwagon that said this team doesn't need another best friend coaching it. Tough to tell what they want. However, if the ONLY substance of it all was Mangini wants Rogers showiing up with better endurance so we can get more snaps out of him - well, GRAET coaches always challenge the things his players need to improve upon.
Our problems in the past and present are getting guys to put together back to back GOOD seasons, whether it's at RB, oline, QB or wherever. Jamal Lewis played inspired football in 2007 by showing up 15-18 pounds lighter. He had some giddyup that he lacked following the 2008 contract extension/signing bonus.
- Tom F.
Bingo, I think you hit the nail on the head. We've had coaches that asscpted what a player gave and didn't push them to excel or challenge them to better themselves. Nothing wrong with a coach trying to get players to perform at a higher level. Part of that is offseason conditioning.
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GREAT post Dennis! Thanks! Alot of Pluto's takes look like they come from that planet.
I read another excerpt and can't remember where - maybe Jupiter. But this one was insinuating Mangini wasn't going to talk to Shaun until after he showed a certain amount of weight loss. It painted Mangini as a real basterd and yet it came from someone in the bandwagon that said this team doesn't need another best friend coaching it. Tough to tell what they want. However, if the ONLY substance of it all was Mangini wants Rogers showiing up with better endurance so we can get more snaps out of him - well, GRAET coaches always challenge the things his players need to improve upon.
Our problems in the past and present are getting guys to put together back to back GOOD seasons, whether it's at RB, oline, QB or wherever. Jamal Lewis played inspired football in 2007 by showing up 15-18 pounds lighter. He had some giddyup that he lacked following the 2008 contract extension/signing bonus.
- Tom F.
Bingo, I think you hit the nail on the head. We've had coaches that asscpted what a player gave and didn't push them to excel or challenge them to better themselves. Nothing wrong with a coach trying to get players to perform at a higher level. Part of that is offseason conditioning.
Bingo, I think you hit the nail on the head. We've had coaches that asscpted what a player gave and didn't push them to excel or challenge them to better themselves. Nothing wrong with a coach trying to get players to perform at a higher level. Part of that is offseason conditioning.
Yeah, but presumably it's a good idea to actually tell the players what you want, which would involve talking to them at some point.
Dennis
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This whole story about Mangini not recognizing Rogers at some banquet or something is the gayest football story I have ever heard of, and I can't believe it still has legs.
God, I can't wait for training camp.
Could not have stated it better all around .
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Two of Pluto's points strike me as a bit, well, off:
>>4. Mangini has been taking an odd stance of not wanting to talk to players, or at least that is the impression being given to some of his key players. Mangini would rather sit down and talk to players at length, but the coach needs to understand that a short call or e-mail is a good way to let the players know he is interested in them. This is the text-message, e-mail generation.
5. Some fans say "Who cares if Mangini stiffed Rogers, my boss doesn't talk to me." Or, "If I made $6 million, my boss can ignore me forever."
There is no relation between pro sports and the real world. These are millionaires in a bubble, they have been spoiled their entire professional lives. To them, special treatment is a perk of the job. Also, in real life, rarely does an employee earn more than the boss -- as is often the case in pro sports. <<
On #4--The coach runs the team, and hopefully gets them to do what he wants, which hopefully will make the team better. I've had several jobs in my life, and not one of them featured a boss coming up to me two months after I started and saying, "Alright, here's what I need you to do." Presumably you let guys know what you're thinking sooner, especially if they're, I dunno, the key to your defensive front.
On #5--I'm calling BS on this one. As I said, I've never had a job in which my boss didn't talk to me. Forget being nice, it's just smart business to know your employees. Also, at what point did "the boss says hello" become "special treatment"? Also, Pluto is a sportswriter...you know, the guys who try to run coaches out of town if they don't start every answer with, "That's a really great question, Terry, and are you regrowing your hair a bit?"
Do I want the coach washing his players' cars for them? Of course not; that's what the coaches' kids are for. Would I like to think that the coach is willing to communicate with the guys he's going to try to lead? That might help. Do I think that "He'll talk to them when they need to be talked to" is a stupid way to run any business, much less one that has about fifty employees, all of whom are integral to making things work? Yes. Very yes.
Dennis
On #4--The coach runs the team, and hopefully gets them to do what he wants, which hopefully will make the team better. I've had several jobs in my life, and not one of them featured a boss coming up to me two months after I started and saying, "Alright, here's what I need you to do." Presumably you let guys know what you're thinking sooner, especially if they're, I dunno, the key to your defensive front.
Do I want the coach washing his players' cars for them? Of course not; that's what the coaches' kids are for. Would I like to think that the coach is willing to communicate with the guys he's going to try to lead? That might help. Do I think that "He'll talk to them when they need to be talked to" is a stupid way to run any business, much less one that has about fifty employees, all of whom are integral to making things work? Yes. Very yes.
I don't think anyone's really denying that, Dennis. Well, maybe Pluto is, but that's his problem.
In his last presser, Mangini talked about how important it was for him to review boatloads of film and get all the schematic stuff done before talking to the players individually. Based on what he said, you got the impression that he felt it was worthless to meet with the players unless he had a detailed X's and O's plan to share with them.
In that sense, he reminds me of the professor you visit during office hours who's hopelessly awkward when he's just shooting the shit, but is engaging and brilliant when you ask them about his reading of some 19th century novel. For Mangini, it may be less about awkwardness and more about what he considers a valuable use of his time, but both seem to underestimate the importance of building personal relationships that transcend the subject matter or what happens on the football field.
I guess that's a slightly different critique of how Mangini seems to be approaching things.
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