Dysfunction
-
I always figured them for Kentucky....but Arkansas sounds about right too....Granny was my favorite
-
I always figured them for Kentucky....but Arkansas sounds about right too....Granny was my favorite
I always figured them for Kentucky....but Arkansas sounds about right too....Granny was my favorite
Well, I think it was pretty clear that they were from the Ozarks. See this blurb:
he Beverly Hillbillies appear to be Southerners, but consistent information about which part of the South they are from is not given. Granny frequently mentions that she was born and raised around Limestone, Tennessee, near Greensville (sic; actually Greeneville), but the state from which the Clampetts move to California is never revealed. Various, sometimes conflicting, clues can be found in certain episodes. In season 5, episode 17, it is claimed that they come from the town of "Bug Tussle" in an unspecified state.
While there is a town of Bugtussle in Oklahoma, this does not appear to be consistent with geographic clues in other episodes. Oklahoma is mostly plains, but the series calls Jed a mountaineer. Other episodes often refer to nearby towns, such as Joplin, Branson, Springfield, Tulsa, Silver Dollar City, all in or near southwest Missouri. In the eighth episode of season 8, "Manhattan Hillbillies," Granny tells the police officer in Central Park that her family comes from Taney County, and there is a Taney County in southwest Missouri. Early episodes also contain several references to Eureka Springs, which is in northwest Arkansas. All these communities (except Tulsa) are in relatively close proximity in the Ozark Mountains of the South Central United States. The characters' accents, their initial poverty, and the existence of oil are also consistent with an origin elsewhere in the Upland South, such as Appalachia. The show's creator and producer, Paul Henning, is from Independence, Missouri, and donated 1,534 acres (621 ha) to the Ruth and Paul Henning Conservation Area near Branson.[4]
The company that paid him for the oil was the OK Oil Company. OK could be for Oklahoma. FYI, the Ozarks do extend into eastern Oklahoma. He could be a mountaineer and be from OK.
Plus, I think Jethro was based on L'il Abner....which was Arkansas/Ozark based.
-
Bugtussel.
WSS
-
Sorry if I misjudged you. The request to list five egregious actions is for the Johnny haters. As to reporters I don't think they are necessarily liars but the great portion of stories we hear is speculation from sources we know nothing about. It could be anybody. Maybe a disgruntled player or employee or the guy that delivers food to Berea. They may have some credibility but we've heard all sorts of stories as the seasons going on and then heard the complete opposite. There are people in the lowest levels of the organization that probably feel empowered by speaking to a reporter. I'm just recommending the proverbial grain of salt.cbbacker said:
Sorry bud, I didn't dog Johnny football. Are you asking me to give you 5 examples of how the media broke stories on Johnny that were true? Or maybe stories that were supplied by sources that were true? If you clarify for me, I will gladly try i guess. Have to work tomorrow though, so likely won't get my response to late, but will try after you clarify. But I wasn't dogging Johnny. Was just pointing out how someone blindly claimed all journalists are liars, and they never have sources for their articles.
It's the natural by product when you have a ravenous fanbase and no real news to report. You have to take rumors, speculation and innuendo and try to build news stories.
WSS
Sorry if I misjudged you. The request to list five egregious actions is for the Johnny haters. As to reporters I don't think they are necessarily liars but the great portion of stories we hear is speculation from sources we know nothing about. It could be anybody. Maybe a disgruntled player or employee or the guy that delivers food to Berea. They may have some credibility but we've heard all sorts of stories as the seasons going on and then heard the complete opposite. There are people in the lowest levels of the organization that probably feel empowered by speaking to a reporter. I'm just recommending the proverbial grain of salt.
It's the natural by product when you have a ravenous fanbase and no real news to report. You have to take rumors, speculation and innuendo and try to build news stories.
WSS
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
-
Sorry if I misjudged you. The request to list five egregious actions is for the Johnny haters. As to reporters I don't think they are necessarily liars but the great portion of stories we hear is speculation from sources we know nothing about. It could be anybody. Maybe a disgruntled player or employee or the guy that delivers food to Berea. They may have some credibility but we've heard all sorts of stories as the seasons going on and then heard the complete opposite. There are people in the lowest levels of the organization that probably feel empowered by speaking to a reporter. I'm just recommending the proverbial grain of salt.
It's the natural by product when you have a ravenous fanbase and no real news to report. You have to take rumors, speculation and innuendo and try to build news stories.
WSS
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
cbbacker said:
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
Well, I suspect the facts, the truth lie somewhere in the middle. Do I think that LaCanfora has an agenda because he is buddy buddy with Mike Lombardi who was fired by the Browns....yes. Do I think Haslam persuaded Farmer to take JMZ....and persuaded his coach to see what the kid could do? Sure. Do I think that Farmer etc. second guessed some of the coaching/play calling? Sure. I think every single owner/GM in the NFL does that with their coaches, OCs etc. Maybe they don't "text" it the way Farmer did.....but who is not aware of the images of Jerry Jones and Robert Kraft and any number of other owners and GMs being seen on their teams sidelines? The Browns FO communication with their coaching staff I do not believe is at all unique.
Do I think JMZ and Gilbert may have taken the NFL for granted and not given their full time and attention to their jobs? Absolutely.
But like I said before....anyone (and I don't know if you are included in this) who thinks that the asteroid is coming to destroy Planet Cleveland Browns.....needs to just buy a good umbrella. There are perhaps some showers, maybe even a thunderstorm and some hail falling......but these are not extinction events.....so quit acting like they are.
This team has as much overall talent as anyone else in this division. They just need to package it properly and get it all headed in sync in the right direction.
-
I always figured them for Kentucky....but Arkansas sounds about right too....Granny was my favorite
-
If you take out everything that "sources say"...all you Have is that Shanahan quit, Gordon is suspended and Manziel is in rehab.
This is all speculative shock journalistic garbage. Here's a good rule of thumb: "sources say" means absolutely nothing.
Multiple team sources have told me that Johnny threw a 90 yard TD pass to Brian Hoyer yesterday at rehab and that Jimmy Haslam is a gay robot.
If you take out everything that "sources say"...all you Have is that Shanahan quit, Gordon is suspended and Manziel is in rehab.
This is all speculative shock journalistic garbage. Here's a good rule of thumb: "sources say" means absolutely nothing.
Multiple team sources have told me that Johnny threw a 90 yard TD pass to Brian Hoyer yesterday at rehab and that Jimmy Haslam is a gay robot.
shanahan quit after 1 yr....he quit because he is with a bullshit organization just like the skins....i'm glad we got him here in atlanta...what a fucking gift...he finally has a good qb and great recievers to work with....i do root for the clowns, and atlanta is my second team, but this clowns organization is the worse in the world..err maybe oakland and washington to...
-
Sorry if I misjudged you. The request to list five egregious actions is for the Johnny haters. As to reporters I don't think they are necessarily liars but the great portion of stories we hear is speculation from sources we know nothing about. It could be anybody. Maybe a disgruntled player or employee or the guy that delivers food to Berea. They may have some credibility but we've heard all sorts of stories as the seasons going on and then heard the complete opposite. There are people in the lowest levels of the organization that probably feel empowered by speaking to a reporter. I'm just recommending the proverbial grain of salt.
It's the natural by product when you have a ravenous fanbase and no real news to report. You have to take rumors, speculation and innuendo and try to build news stories.
WSS
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
cbbacker said:
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
Journalism at the NFL level is an old boys club. You start out on the beat, make some friends, those friends become your sources. La Canfora is known to be buddy-buddy with Lombardi. Regardless of what you say contrary to the fact, that is the case. It's likely that La Canfora said "hey, there's some shit going on in Brownstown, let's see what I can find", so he reached out to Lombardi or someone in that circle and said "give me some dirt". Obviously the information he's going to get isn't going to paint the Browns in a favorable light.
An article about a team in disarray is going to gain much more traction than an article about a team operating on all cylinders. However, what La Canfora did is commonly known as confirmation bias. It's chasing down leads to fit a story rather than developing a story based off of the information you gather.
If Pettine ends up fired in a year, La Canfora can say "I posted this story a year ago." Then he gets a nice, hefty raise and he becomes known as a "heard it here first" reporter. If Pettine goes on to become Coach of the Year and the Browns win a Super Bowl next year, La Canfora then gets to publish a followup story about how the Cleveland Browns overcame adversity. In the meantime, he's created a viral article that is generating tons of traction and is being shared on or referenced by a number of other major news sites, increasing their backlinks a thousand fold. It's a win-win situation for both him and CBS. It's not news, it's marketing.
In case you don't believe any of that, which you likely don't because it's reasonable thought-out logic, take a look at what this reporter wrote only a year ago about Kyle Shanahan:
Conversations with several people within the organization have revealed a similar perception of Kyle Shanahan as someone who was empowered and enabled by his father, spending an abundance of time in his fathers office, given a wide swath of power, and rubbing many people players, fellow coaches and members of football operations the wrong way...As a former member of the organization put it: Kyle bitches about everything, and then his father has to fix it. He bitches about the food in the cafeteria, he bitches about the field, he bitches about the equipment. He complains and then Mike takes care of it. Kyle is a big problem there. He is not well liked.
So, what is it? Is Shanahan the knight in shining armor who couldn't stand being in the messed-up Browns front office, or is he the petulant, spoiled child that everyone in the league knew him as that simply wasn't getting his way and wanted to leave?
In reality, what's likely happening is that Haslam is hands-on, Farmer is hands-on, Pettine is hands-on and Shanahan wanted them to be hands-off. Shanahan is used to a certain degree of autonomy, coaching underneath his father for the last three seasons. He likely didn't want to have to answer to not one, but three, different people.
I "generalize" reporters because I have the experience and knowledge to do so. I work in that field. I'm not a fan looking at it from the outside. Take it from someone who works in the industry, journalists at that level are self-serving assholes whose opinions can change mid-sentence.
The only new piece of information that La Canfora "broke" in that article is that Farmer, Scheiner and Pettine watch film every Monday. Nothing else was news. Was it news that Haslam is a hands-on owner? No. Was it news that Haslam purportedly pushed for Manziel to not only be drafted, but to start? No. Was it news that Shanahan didn't want to be in Cleveland? No.
What's happening is that the Cleveland Browns are retooling from years of garbage front office management. There will be churn, especially at the bottom. There will be growing pains. But the big three (Scheiner, Farmer and Haslam) are working together. Pettine, from most accounts, seems to also be on board. Shanahan wasn't. Loggains had a mouth that was bigger than his resume. So they got rid of an offensive coordinator who didn't want to be there without having to fire him and instead went with someone Pettine is comfortable with and can vouch for who runs a similar type offense. They fired a QB coach who has never developed a quarterback in his life. They hired a guy who not only played QB but also coached for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots and who has experience with Manziel.
For reactionary fans, that's "Oh my God, the Browns are a pile of hot garbage!" For the rest of us who can look at things logically, it's not only a smart business decision, it is a smart football decision. Haslam wanted Manziel, that's plain. Instead of fighting that and trying to implement a system that exploits Manziel's flaws, Pettine has reached into his bag and secured both a coordinator and coach that are experienced in developing rookies.
Doesn't sound like a front office in peril to me. It sounds like a coaching staff that is making the most out of the shitty situation they are in.
It seems that the people you qualify as "wanting to talk football" are just the people who you agree with, when in actuality the people "talking football" are everyone else but you. Then again, you'll be out of here in a few days, so I'm not really worried.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
If you take out everything that "sources say"...all you Have is that Shanahan quit, Gordon is suspended and Manziel is in rehab.
This is all speculative shock journalistic garbage. Here's a good rule of thumb: "sources say" means absolutely nothing.
Multiple team sources have told me that Johnny threw a 90 yard TD pass to Brian Hoyer yesterday at rehab and that Jimmy Haslam is a gay robot.
shanahan quit after 1 yr....he quit because he is with a bullshit organization just like the skins....i'm glad we got him here in atlanta...what a fucking gift...he finally has a good qb and great recievers to work with....i do root for the clowns, and atlanta is my second team, but this clowns organization is the worse in the world..err maybe oakland and washington to...
shanahan quit after 1 yr....he quit because he is with a bullshit organization just like the skins....i'm glad we got him here in atlanta...what a fucking gift...he finally has a good qb and great recievers to work with....i do root for the clowns, and atlanta is my second team, but this clowns organization is the worse in the world..err maybe oakland and washington to...
Browns went into Atlanta and won if I remember correctly. And finished with a better record. So there's that.
Zombo
-
I always figured them for Kentucky....but Arkansas sounds about right too....Granny was my favorite
-
cbbacker said:
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
Journalism at the NFL level is an old boys club. You start out on the beat, make some friends, those friends become your sources. La Canfora is known to be buddy-buddy with Lombardi. Regardless of what you say contrary to the fact, that is the case. It's likely that La Canfora said "hey, there's some shit going on in Brownstown, let's see what I can find", so he reached out to Lombardi or someone in that circle and said "give me some dirt". Obviously the information he's going to get isn't going to paint the Browns in a favorable light.
An article about a team in disarray is going to gain much more traction than an article about a team operating on all cylinders. However, what La Canfora did is commonly known as confirmation bias. It's chasing down leads to fit a story rather than developing a story based off of the information you gather.
If Pettine ends up fired in a year, La Canfora can say "I posted this story a year ago." Then he gets a nice, hefty raise and he becomes known as a "heard it here first" reporter. If Pettine goes on to become Coach of the Year and the Browns win a Super Bowl next year, La Canfora then gets to publish a followup story about how the Cleveland Browns overcame adversity. In the meantime, he's created a viral article that is generating tons of traction and is being shared on or referenced by a number of other major news sites, increasing their backlinks a thousand fold. It's a win-win situation for both him and CBS. It's not news, it's marketing.
In case you don't believe any of that, which you likely don't because it's reasonable thought-out logic, take a look at what this reporter wrote only a year ago about Kyle Shanahan:
Conversations with several people within the organization have revealed a similar perception of Kyle Shanahan as someone who was empowered and enabled by his father, spending an abundance of time in his fathers office, given a wide swath of power, and rubbing many people players, fellow coaches and members of football operations the wrong way...As a former member of the organization put it: Kyle bitches about everything, and then his father has to fix it. He bitches about the food in the cafeteria, he bitches about the field, he bitches about the equipment. He complains and then Mike takes care of it. Kyle is a big problem there. He is not well liked.
So, what is it? Is Shanahan the knight in shining armor who couldn't stand being in the messed-up Browns front office, or is he the petulant, spoiled child that everyone in the league knew him as that simply wasn't getting his way and wanted to leave?
In reality, what's likely happening is that Haslam is hands-on, Farmer is hands-on, Pettine is hands-on and Shanahan wanted them to be hands-off. Shanahan is used to a certain degree of autonomy, coaching underneath his father for the last three seasons. He likely didn't want to have to answer to not one, but three, different people.
I "generalize" reporters because I have the experience and knowledge to do so. I work in that field. I'm not a fan looking at it from the outside. Take it from someone who works in the industry, journalists at that level are self-serving assholes whose opinions can change mid-sentence.
The only new piece of information that La Canfora "broke" in that article is that Farmer, Scheiner and Pettine watch film every Monday. Nothing else was news. Was it news that Haslam is a hands-on owner? No. Was it news that Haslam purportedly pushed for Manziel to not only be drafted, but to start? No. Was it news that Shanahan didn't want to be in Cleveland? No.
What's happening is that the Cleveland Browns are retooling from years of garbage front office management. There will be churn, especially at the bottom. There will be growing pains. But the big three (Scheiner, Farmer and Haslam) are working together. Pettine, from most accounts, seems to also be on board. Shanahan wasn't. Loggains had a mouth that was bigger than his resume. So they got rid of an offensive coordinator who didn't want to be there without having to fire him and instead went with someone Pettine is comfortable with and can vouch for who runs a similar type offense. They fired a QB coach who has never developed a quarterback in his life. They hired a guy who not only played QB but also coached for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots and who has experience with Manziel.
For reactionary fans, that's "Oh my God, the Browns are a pile of hot garbage!" For the rest of us who can look at things logically, it's not only a smart business decision, it is a smart football decision. Haslam wanted Manziel, that's plain. Instead of fighting that and trying to implement a system that exploits Manziel's flaws, Pettine has reached into his bag and secured both a coordinator and coach that are experienced in developing rookies.
Doesn't sound like a front office in peril to me. It sounds like a coaching staff that is making the most out of the shitty situation they are in.
It seems that the people you qualify as "wanting to talk football" are just the people who you agree with, when in actuality the people "talking football" are everyone else but you. Then again, you'll be out of here in a few days, so I'm not really worried.
In reality, what's likely happening is that Haslam is hands-on, Farmer is hands-on, Pettine is hands-on and Shanahan wanted them to be hands-off. Shanahan is used to a certain degree of autonomy, coaching underneath his father for the last three seasons. He likely didn't want to have to answer to not one, but three, different people.
I "generalize" reporters because I have the experience and knowledge to do so. I work in that field.
The only new piece of information that La Canfora "broke" in that article is that Farmer, Scheiner and Pettine watch film every Monday.
1. Are you sure you are not a lawyer?
2. Still not sure I know how to react to the film session attendee news.
I understand Farmer sitting in with Pet. Farmer has to be in on the evaluations so he can formulate personnel assessments. It's a good thing that they touch base and compare notes... which is more likely what happens so I doubt they wait until Monday to take their first look at the prior day's game.
Scheiner is a different story... not seeing a role for him there... at least not season-long attendance. Late, as player plans are gelling? Maybe...
3. My guess on Shanny would be a little different.
I would think he saw in CLE the chance to get his first real taste of autonomy as an OC. I doubt Daddy or Kubiak had him on a long leash. You may have info that I do not, but having freedom for the first time helps me understand young Shanny's overreaction to the text messages.
... and on the text messages.
I honestly believe that if Farmer sent any or all, that he did so believing, even knowing, that they would not be seen until after the game... probably by Shanny and Pet. It was the text equivalent of game notes Farmer could discuss with Pet in their Monday morning film session and gives Shanny a heads up of questions Pet might raise when they review film later in the day.
Copying Shanny on the texts could actually be considered a courtesy, if one were objective enough.
-
Some interesting posts. I think you can see why the average fan can get manipulated with these stories.
The latest recent story has been on owner Jimmy Haslam. I like a lot I have seen with Haslam. The millions of dollars he fronted for the stadium improvements for one. I also don't think it is a bad thing to have an owner who is driven to winning. I will take that over a complacent owner. If the owner takes it too far though and becomes too much hands on I see that as problem. Basically though I felt it was just an overblown story. I think this has got to work this time. We cannot continually tear down the foundation and and start over again.
-
Well said TCPO.
WSS
-
cbbacker said:
Thank you WSS, someone that actually wants to talk football. I have no issue with you misunderstanding the posts, I had a lot, and seeing peoples response I am sure it was easy to think I was a Johnny hater. No biggie. As for reporters your right, obviously reporters don't always have accurate info, I was just pointing out how some guy generalized all journalists as liars. I tend to believe La Canfora and his "sources" because most of this information isn't new. There were reports back in May that Haslam forced them to take Johnny. There have been reports all year of how Gilbert and Manziel were more interested in living it up, then playing. Now the shanahan thing was new to me at least, but he did infact leave while being under contract, so I have no reason to doubt why he said he left.
Like i said, I do take this report with a grain of salt, but when you factor in the last 3 years, and the issues our front office has had, the revolving door, the quick firings. The fact that Farmer is an ex player, and trying to take more responsibility in the coaching to me is feasible. Not saying it's true, just feasible. I just don't see why a respected journalist would lie about stuff like that. I bet people jump at the chance to talk, while they may be disgruntled, i am thinking that might not mean they would lie, they just have no loyalty?
Was nice talking football though, thx WSS
Journalism at the NFL level is an old boys club. You start out on the beat, make some friends, those friends become your sources. La Canfora is known to be buddy-buddy with Lombardi. Regardless of what you say contrary to the fact, that is the case. It's likely that La Canfora said "hey, there's some shit going on in Brownstown, let's see what I can find", so he reached out to Lombardi or someone in that circle and said "give me some dirt". Obviously the information he's going to get isn't going to paint the Browns in a favorable light.
An article about a team in disarray is going to gain much more traction than an article about a team operating on all cylinders. However, what La Canfora did is commonly known as confirmation bias. It's chasing down leads to fit a story rather than developing a story based off of the information you gather.
If Pettine ends up fired in a year, La Canfora can say "I posted this story a year ago." Then he gets a nice, hefty raise and he becomes known as a "heard it here first" reporter. If Pettine goes on to become Coach of the Year and the Browns win a Super Bowl next year, La Canfora then gets to publish a followup story about how the Cleveland Browns overcame adversity. In the meantime, he's created a viral article that is generating tons of traction and is being shared on or referenced by a number of other major news sites, increasing their backlinks a thousand fold. It's a win-win situation for both him and CBS. It's not news, it's marketing.
In case you don't believe any of that, which you likely don't because it's reasonable thought-out logic, take a look at what this reporter wrote only a year ago about Kyle Shanahan:
Conversations with several people within the organization have revealed a similar perception of Kyle Shanahan as someone who was empowered and enabled by his father, spending an abundance of time in his fathers office, given a wide swath of power, and rubbing many people players, fellow coaches and members of football operations the wrong way...As a former member of the organization put it: Kyle bitches about everything, and then his father has to fix it. He bitches about the food in the cafeteria, he bitches about the field, he bitches about the equipment. He complains and then Mike takes care of it. Kyle is a big problem there. He is not well liked.
So, what is it? Is Shanahan the knight in shining armor who couldn't stand being in the messed-up Browns front office, or is he the petulant, spoiled child that everyone in the league knew him as that simply wasn't getting his way and wanted to leave?
In reality, what's likely happening is that Haslam is hands-on, Farmer is hands-on, Pettine is hands-on and Shanahan wanted them to be hands-off. Shanahan is used to a certain degree of autonomy, coaching underneath his father for the last three seasons. He likely didn't want to have to answer to not one, but three, different people.
I "generalize" reporters because I have the experience and knowledge to do so. I work in that field. I'm not a fan looking at it from the outside. Take it from someone who works in the industry, journalists at that level are self-serving assholes whose opinions can change mid-sentence.
The only new piece of information that La Canfora "broke" in that article is that Farmer, Scheiner and Pettine watch film every Monday. Nothing else was news. Was it news that Haslam is a hands-on owner? No. Was it news that Haslam purportedly pushed for Manziel to not only be drafted, but to start? No. Was it news that Shanahan didn't want to be in Cleveland? No.
What's happening is that the Cleveland Browns are retooling from years of garbage front office management. There will be churn, especially at the bottom. There will be growing pains. But the big three (Scheiner, Farmer and Haslam) are working together. Pettine, from most accounts, seems to also be on board. Shanahan wasn't. Loggains had a mouth that was bigger than his resume. So they got rid of an offensive coordinator who didn't want to be there without having to fire him and instead went with someone Pettine is comfortable with and can vouch for who runs a similar type offense. They fired a QB coach who has never developed a quarterback in his life. They hired a guy who not only played QB but also coached for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots and who has experience with Manziel.
For reactionary fans, that's "Oh my God, the Browns are a pile of hot garbage!" For the rest of us who can look at things logically, it's not only a smart business decision, it is a smart football decision. Haslam wanted Manziel, that's plain. Instead of fighting that and trying to implement a system that exploits Manziel's flaws, Pettine has reached into his bag and secured both a coordinator and coach that are experienced in developing rookies.
Doesn't sound like a front office in peril to me. It sounds like a coaching staff that is making the most out of the shitty situation they are in.
It seems that the people you qualify as "wanting to talk football" are just the people who you agree with, when in actuality the people "talking football" are everyone else but you. Then again, you'll be out of here in a few days, so I'm not really worried.
Journalism at the NFL level is an old boys club. You start out on the beat, make some friends, those friends become your sources. La Canfora is known to be buddy-buddy with Lombardi. Regardless of what you say contrary to the fact, that is the case. It's likely that La Canfora said "hey, there's some shit going on in Brownstown, let's see what I can find", so he reached out to Lombardi or someone in that circle and said "give me some dirt". Obviously the information he's going to get isn't going to paint the Browns in a favorable light.
An article about a team in disarray is going to gain much more traction than an article about a team operating on all cylinders. However, what La Canfora did is commonly known as confirmation bias. It's chasing down leads to fit a story rather than developing a story based off of the information you gather.
If Pettine ends up fired in a year, La Canfora can say "I posted this story a year ago." Then he gets a nice, hefty raise and he becomes known as a "heard it here first" reporter. If Pettine goes on to become Coach of the Year and the Browns win a Super Bowl next year, La Canfora then gets to publish a followup story about how the Cleveland Browns overcame adversity. In the meantime, he's created a viral article that is generating tons of traction and is being shared on or referenced by a number of other major news sites, increasing their backlinks a thousand fold. It's a win-win situation for both him and CBS. It's not news, it's marketing.
In case you don't believe any of that, which you likely don't because it's reasonable thought-out logic, take a look at what this reporter wrote only a year ago about Kyle Shanahan:
So, what is it? Is Shanahan the knight in shining armor who couldn't stand being in the messed-up Browns front office, or is he the petulant, spoiled child that everyone in the league knew him as that simply wasn't getting his way and wanted to leave?
In reality, what's likely happening is that Haslam is hands-on, Farmer is hands-on, Pettine is hands-on and Shanahan wanted them to be hands-off. Shanahan is used to a certain degree of autonomy, coaching underneath his father for the last three seasons. He likely didn't want to have to answer to not one, but three, different people.
I "generalize" reporters because I have the experience and knowledge to do so. I work in that field. I'm not a fan looking at it from the outside. Take it from someone who works in the industry, journalists at that level are self-serving assholes whose opinions can change mid-sentence.
The only new piece of information that La Canfora "broke" in that article is that Farmer, Scheiner and Pettine watch film every Monday. Nothing else was news. Was it news that Haslam is a hands-on owner? No. Was it news that Haslam purportedly pushed for Manziel to not only be drafted, but to start? No. Was it news that Shanahan didn't want to be in Cleveland? No.
What's happening is that the Cleveland Browns are retooling from years of garbage front office management. There will be churn, especially at the bottom. There will be growing pains. But the big three (Scheiner, Farmer and Haslam) are working together. Pettine, from most accounts, seems to also be on board. Shanahan wasn't. Loggains had a mouth that was bigger than his resume. So they got rid of an offensive coordinator who didn't want to be there without having to fire him and instead went with someone Pettine is comfortable with and can vouch for who runs a similar type offense. They fired a QB coach who has never developed a quarterback in his life. They hired a guy who not only played QB but also coached for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots and who has experience with Manziel.
For reactionary fans, that's "Oh my God, the Browns are a pile of hot garbage!" For the rest of us who can look at things logically, it's not only a smart business decision, it is a smart football decision. Haslam wanted Manziel, that's plain. Instead of fighting that and trying to implement a system that exploits Manziel's flaws, Pettine has reached into his bag and secured both a coordinator and coach that are experienced in developing rookies.
Doesn't sound like a front office in peril to me. It sounds like a coaching staff that is making the most out of the shitty situation they are in.
It seems that the people you qualify as "wanting to talk football" are just the people who you agree with, when in actuality the people "talking football" are everyone else but you. Then again, you'll be out of here in a few days, so I'm not really worried.
I am sure you will just flame me TCPO, but I do appreciate your willingness to finally talk football. Let me hedge anything further incase you just read the first couple sentences. I do not, claim these stories are right, or wrong. I do not pretend to believe that some of this "could" be made up. My entire comment earlier was because you said something to the sort of "anyone who says sources say" has nothing. If you truly work in the field, then you know that isn't true. That is the only thing I said. I didn't confirm nor deny what La Canfora said, I didn't say he did, or didn't have an agenda. All I say is most reporters get there stories from sources. That's it. Usually those stories turn out to be accurate, not always, but usually.
The only thing i bring up concerning the La Canfora story is this; about half of what he said has already been said numerous times over the course of the year, and was reported by more then just him. He may have a scoop on a couple things, and he may not, but what he said "to me only" says that he has no reason to really lie. Half of these stories have already been known for months, from others like Mary Kay Cabot, Tony Grossi, and Tom Reed. I remember hearing a month after the draft on Kylie and Booms them arguing about whether Haslam made them draft Johnny. Most of what was said in his article was already known, or had already been said. That's why I tend to believe him. Again that's just me.
-
Some interesting posts. I think you can see why the average fan can get manipulated with these stories.
The latest recent story has been on owner Jimmy Haslam. I like a lot I have seen with Haslam. The millions of dollars he fronted for the stadium improvements for one. I also don't think it is a bad thing to have an owner who is driven to winning. I will take that over a complacent owner. If the owner takes it too far though and becomes too much hands on I see that as problem. Basically though I felt it was just an overblown story. I think this has got to work this time. We cannot continually tear down the foundation and and start over again.
The latest recent story has been on owner Jimmy Haslam. I like a lot I have seen with Haslam. The millions of dollars he fronted for the stadium improvements for one. I also don't think it is a bad thing to have an owner who is driven to winning. I will take that over a complacent owner. If the owner takes it too far though and becomes too much hands on I see that as problem. Basically though I felt it was just an overblown story. I think this has got to work this time. We cannot continually tear down the foundation and and start over again.
I was thinking today that had I put $1 billion into a "business", I think I'd have gotten pretty fucking involved in it.
I've said more than once here that the way Jimmy reorganized the Browns was textbook CEO stuff. Add in the clearly defined rolls, responsibilities and expectations that Jimmy, Ray and Pet all spoke about at the time and it sounded perfect. Of course nothing is ever perfect, but I am not sure we are as imperfect as some would have us believe.
Is Farmer attending Monday films with Pet imperfect? Not necessarily...
Is Jimmy green-lighting a trade to move up and tab JM imperfect? Not necessarily... even if the result has been... so far.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Journalism at the NFL level is an old boys club. You start out on the beat, make some friends, those friends become your sources. La Canfora is known to be buddy-buddy with Lombardi. Regardless of what you say contrary to the fact, that is the case. It's likely that La Canfora said "hey, there's some shit going on in Brownstown, let's see what I can find", so he reached out to Lombardi or someone in that circle and said "give me some dirt". Obviously the information he's going to get isn't going to paint the Browns in a favorable light.
An article about a team in disarray is going to gain much more traction than an article about a team operating on all cylinders. However, what La Canfora did is commonly known as confirmation bias. It's chasing down leads to fit a story rather than developing a story based off of the information you gather.
If Pettine ends up fired in a year, La Canfora can say "I posted this story a year ago." Then he gets a nice, hefty raise and he becomes known as a "heard it here first" reporter. If Pettine goes on to become Coach of the Year and the Browns win a Super Bowl next year, La Canfora then gets to publish a followup story about how the Cleveland Browns overcame adversity. In the meantime, he's created a viral article that is generating tons of traction and is being shared on or referenced by a number of other major news sites, increasing their backlinks a thousand fold. It's a win-win situation for both him and CBS. It's not news, it's marketing.
In case you don't believe any of that, which you likely don't because it's reasonable thought-out logic, take a look at what this reporter wrote only a year ago about Kyle Shanahan:
So, what is it? Is Shanahan the knight in shining armor who couldn't stand being in the messed-up Browns front office, or is he the petulant, spoiled child that everyone in the league knew him as that simply wasn't getting his way and wanted to leave?
In reality, what's likely happening is that Haslam is hands-on, Farmer is hands-on, Pettine is hands-on and Shanahan wanted them to be hands-off. Shanahan is used to a certain degree of autonomy, coaching underneath his father for the last three seasons. He likely didn't want to have to answer to not one, but three, different people.
I "generalize" reporters because I have the experience and knowledge to do so. I work in that field. I'm not a fan looking at it from the outside. Take it from someone who works in the industry, journalists at that level are self-serving assholes whose opinions can change mid-sentence.
The only new piece of information that La Canfora "broke" in that article is that Farmer, Scheiner and Pettine watch film every Monday. Nothing else was news. Was it news that Haslam is a hands-on owner? No. Was it news that Haslam purportedly pushed for Manziel to not only be drafted, but to start? No. Was it news that Shanahan didn't want to be in Cleveland? No.
What's happening is that the Cleveland Browns are retooling from years of garbage front office management. There will be churn, especially at the bottom. There will be growing pains. But the big three (Scheiner, Farmer and Haslam) are working together. Pettine, from most accounts, seems to also be on board. Shanahan wasn't. Loggains had a mouth that was bigger than his resume. So they got rid of an offensive coordinator who didn't want to be there without having to fire him and instead went with someone Pettine is comfortable with and can vouch for who runs a similar type offense. They fired a QB coach who has never developed a quarterback in his life. They hired a guy who not only played QB but also coached for the Super Bowl Champion New England Patriots and who has experience with Manziel.
For reactionary fans, that's "Oh my God, the Browns are a pile of hot garbage!" For the rest of us who can look at things logically, it's not only a smart business decision, it is a smart football decision. Haslam wanted Manziel, that's plain. Instead of fighting that and trying to implement a system that exploits Manziel's flaws, Pettine has reached into his bag and secured both a coordinator and coach that are experienced in developing rookies.
Doesn't sound like a front office in peril to me. It sounds like a coaching staff that is making the most out of the shitty situation they are in.
It seems that the people you qualify as "wanting to talk football" are just the people who you agree with, when in actuality the people "talking football" are everyone else but you. Then again, you'll be out of here in a few days, so I'm not really worried.
I am sure you will just flame me TCPO, but I do appreciate your willingness to finally talk football. Let me hedge anything further incase you just read the first couple sentences. I do not, claim these stories are right, or wrong. I do not pretend to believe that some of this "could" be made up. My entire comment earlier was because you said something to the sort of "anyone who says sources say" has nothing. If you truly work in the field, then you know that isn't true. That is the only thing I said. I didn't confirm nor deny what La Canfora said, I didn't say he did, or didn't have an agenda. All I say is most reporters get there stories from sources. That's it. Usually those stories turn out to be accurate, not always, but usually.
The only thing i bring up concerning the La Canfora story is this; about half of what he said has already been said numerous times over the course of the year, and was reported by more then just him. He may have a scoop on a couple things, and he may not, but what he said "to me only" says that he has no reason to really lie. Half of these stories have already been known for months, from others like Mary Kay Cabot, Tony Grossi, and Tom Reed. I remember hearing a month after the draft on Kylie and Booms them arguing about whether Haslam made them draft Johnny. Most of what was said in his article was already known, or had already been said. That's why I tend to believe him. Again that's just me.
cbbacker said:
I do appreciate your willingness to finally talk football.
always the fucking troll who comes in, talks shit, and them claims that all he wanted to do was talk football.
you're just a bug. go fuck yourself 'el douchebago.
-
The latest recent story has been on owner Jimmy Haslam. I like a lot I have seen with Haslam. The millions of dollars he fronted for the stadium improvements for one. I also don't think it is a bad thing to have an owner who is driven to winning. I will take that over a complacent owner. If the owner takes it too far though and becomes too much hands on I see that as problem. Basically though I felt it was just an overblown story. I think this has got to work this time. We cannot continually tear down the foundation and and start over again.
I was thinking today that had I put $1 billion into a "business", I think I'd have gotten pretty fucking involved in it.
I've said more than once here that the way Jimmy reorganized the Browns was textbook CEO stuff. Add in the clearly defined rolls, responsibilities and expectations that Jimmy, Ray and Pet all spoke about at the time and it sounded perfect. Of course nothing is ever perfect, but I am not sure we are as imperfect as some would have us believe.
Is Farmer attending Monday films with Pet imperfect? Not necessarily...
Is Jimmy green-lighting a trade to move up and tab JM imperfect? Not necessarily... even if the result has been... so far.
I was thinking today that had I put $1 billion into a "business", I think I'd have gotten pretty fucking involved in it.
I've said more than once here that the way Jimmy reorganized the Browns was textbook CEO stuff. Add in the clearly defined rolls, responsibilities and expectations that Jimmy, Ray and Pet all spoke about at the time and it sounded perfect. Of course nothing is ever perfect, but I am not sure we are as imperfect as some would have us believe.
Is Farmer attending Monday films with Pet imperfect? Not necessarily...
Is Jimmy green-lighting a trade to move up and tab JM imperfect? Not necessarily... even if the result has been... so far.
You can do many things right but if the one mistake you make is a big one that is all people remember. I see a lot of things being done right with the Browns org. but the mess with JM overshadows everything else. I try to avoid saying things like this because it serves no purpose, what is done is done but if we would have followed our own $100,000 study and taken Bridgewater you just have to wonder where we would be at right now. There is something called loyalty that is almost lost in today's society and especially the cut throat NFL but I would hope Haslam shows some loyalty to Farmer who I believe maybe more than once has fallen on his sword for Jimmy.
-
Arkansas I believe.
North Carolina.
-
cbbacker said:
I do appreciate your willingness to finally talk football.
always the fucking troll who comes in, talks shit, and them claims that all he wanted to do was talk football.
you're just a bug. go fuck yourself 'el douchebago.
always the fucking troll who comes in, talks shit, and them claims that all he wanted to do was talk football.
you're just a bug. go fuck yourself 'el douchebago.
Do you even know what a troll is little man? It's a person who just spouts off in threads, swears, insults, and threatens. Pretty much what you did. I had a football post, and you had a "hey I'm an E-thug" post. Why do you come here to post, get kicked off the playground? That video of you is pretty awesome!!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login