Article: How to Fix the Cleveland Browns by September
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I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
Dude compared to whom, us?
WSS
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gotcha.
could be. could also be the fact that sanchez got out from all the media firestorms here in NY. also even with his miraculous rebirth there were times last year where he reverted to the 'same old sanchez'.
not to say philly fans and media aren't just as bad as NY or maybe worse butt.....
Dude compared to whom, us?
WSS
Dude compared to whom, us?
WSS
i doubt if the plain dealer or beacon journal ever printed a photo of a weeden pick 6 with some foul demeaning as hell headline along the lines of what the NY media does to anyone that fails.
a lot of people just can't take the pressure to play in NY.
ask the big unit.
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Whatever I can't imagine it being worse than this board but...
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Liked the article and it does reinforce what the knowledgeable guys on here are saying.
But gumby, JM to the practice squad? He'd be gone the next day when we could at least trade him for a late rounder at this point. PS would be like gift wrapping him and putting him on a Greyhound thru Philly on the way to Dallas. Someone would meet him at one of those two stops and not have to give us anything in return. At least have the pleasure of getting something out of Jerrah. He's still in charge when it comes to something like that.
Liked the article and it does reinforce what the knowledgeable guys on here are saying.
But gumby, JM to the practice squad? He'd be gone the next day when we could at least trade him for a late rounder at this point. PS would be like gift wrapping him and putting him on a Greyhound thru Philly on the way to Dallas. Someone would meet him at one of those two stops and not have to give us anything in return. At least have the pleasure of getting something out of Jerrah. He's still in charge when it comes to something like that.
JM I am right there with you but on a rookie contract with these front office tight wads, I just don't see it yet. Proof 50mill above cap 2015 and we had cap 2014 left over and never used it... Love the Talent not the player and Upgrade. Huge problem in Farmer and Haslem on JM and Pettine needs to stop both of them or become jobless or refuse the puppet strings and he may still become jobless. Proof Shanny.. Proof Butts in the seats (ticket sales) and Jersey Sales overrode Talent
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foles at least has proven he can play in the nfl. and playing against nfc east defenses cannot be the easiest thing.
play.
not saying he's a world beater but why take a chance on another rookie 'project' when you can get someone that you have actually seen play at this level? see our rookie play (ha!) last year? who's to say hundley (who i actually like) petty or any other kid coming out this year can play at an nfl level?
foles: higher price, lower risk.
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
I'd normally agree with that, but the mere fact that Sanchez was able to not only be serviceable, but to some extent excel, worries me.
Sanchez's rating in 2014 was 10 points higher than any other season in the NFL. He completed 64% of his passes, 8% more than his best season in New York.
If Mark Sanchez can find success under Chip Kelly, who's to say it's not the system?
Yeah, but...
If I were devising the ideal system for Foles, it would be closer to our 2014 than Chip's.
If I were choosing between Foles' and Sanchez's skill sets for Chip's system, I would choose Sanchez.
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Whatever I can't imagine it being worse than this board but...
WSS
Whatever I can't imagine it being worse than this board but...
WSS
sorry steve. didn't know we were talking this board (yikes!).
i thought we were talking the nationally acclaimed rags that are printed in cleveland and akron. god knows MKC and crew are freakin cutting edge.
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I like Foles too.
What are "the issues" with Hundley? I only saw him play a couple of games, and I saw a strong guy, good arm, and mobility. I'm not saying he's the savior, I just want to know if he's a risky pick.
I like Foles too.
What are "the issues" with Hundley? I only saw him play a couple of games, and I saw a strong guy, good arm, and mobility. I'm not saying he's the savior, I just want to know if he's a risky pick.
Poor pocket presence, operates primarily out of shotgun, not asked to read defenses, quick to run under duress, questionable decision making.
Reminds me of Jason Campbell. Campbell hovered on the edge of a first round grade, was considered to have the talents of the top quarterbacks ahead of him, but there were questions about his decision making and mental makeup.
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@douche-nozzle said:
It doesn't work that way.
The difference is that the Seahawks were not dysfunctional from top to bottom when Carroll took over.
There will never be a quick-fix for the Browns, and as long as the fans and media keep demanding it, and management of the Browns keep trying it, they will remain dysfunctional. They need to stop trying to fix it now and develop a 3-5 year approach by letting a veteran QB "manage the game" while they build the nucleus for 3 years and then draft a stud QB to guide that nucleus. But first......before anything else, they need to get some solid people in management and on the sidelines; tough as that may be, that's where it has to start.
I disagree. The Browns can fix the culture quickly. I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities. If all three (Haslam, Petine, and Farmer) agree and stick by these rules, the dysfunction will quickly become a thing of the past. They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month. This should be done by distancing themselves as quickly as possible from the players and stories. That means Farmer doesn't jump all over JM's rehab (as he did) but just says I'm glad he made the decision; but his comeback trail is long and up to him. Meanwhile, we' re moving forward with players that want to play like Browns.
I also disagree with a 3-5 year plan. We know that doesn't work in the NFL. 10 draft selections and 4 to 6 FA signings can combine with what we've got to get us through another competitive year with playoff intentions. That's where the rubber meets the road.
I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere. We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player, one should be Miles, and one should be Cecile Shorts. Add another two somewhere in the draft and a few non-drafted players. We need someone at QB (FA) to start the season (not depend on JM). This person, plus a draft pick, plus Shaw, plus JM, plus an undrafted player or two gives us 6 QB options going into camp.
Focus the rest of the draft and FA on key improvements to the lines and linebackers. I like the strategy of one OL and one DL in the first round. I would duplicate this in round 4&5 with linemen that have the size and ability to be trained/improved.
Just think of how much can be changed with 6 FA's. 10 picks, and 2 undrafted players. That's 1/3 of the team.
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And then in two-three years, we get to cut Thomas, Mack, Haden, our "marquee" WR, and all of our other large contracts because we have no cap space.
Teams don't win through giant Free Agent signings. Just ask Denver.
A smart FA plan coupled with strong drafting is how to build a winner.
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One of the drawbacks on a three man scramble for quarterback is that we have done it before and never to vary great success. Last year we had three. According to the competition and those in charge of it Brandon Weeden came out on top, followed closely by Jason Campbell with Brian Hoyer a distant third. How did that work out? Now remember I think a strong team can carry a mediocre quarterback and other things can muddy waters.
How do you avoid that snafu even if you can?
WSS
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@douche-nozzle said:
It doesn't work that way.
The difference is that the Seahawks were not dysfunctional from top to bottom when Carroll took over.
There will never be a quick-fix for the Browns, and as long as the fans and media keep demanding it, and management of the Browns keep trying it, they will remain dysfunctional. They need to stop trying to fix it now and develop a 3-5 year approach by letting a veteran QB "manage the game" while they build the nucleus for 3 years and then draft a stud QB to guide that nucleus. But first......before anything else, they need to get some solid people in management and on the sidelines; tough as that may be, that's where it has to start.
I disagree. The Browns can fix the culture quickly. I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities. If all three (Haslam, Petine, and Farmer) agree and stick by these rules, the dysfunction will quickly become a thing of the past. They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month. This should be done by distancing themselves as quickly as possible from the players and stories. That means Farmer doesn't jump all over JM's rehab (as he did) but just says I'm glad he made the decision; but his comeback trail is long and up to him. Meanwhile, we' re moving forward with players that want to play like Browns.
I also disagree with a 3-5 year plan. We know that doesn't work in the NFL. 10 draft selections and 4 to 6 FA signings can combine with what we've got to get us through another competitive year with playoff intentions. That's where the rubber meets the road.
I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere. We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player, one should be Miles, and one should be Cecile Shorts. Add another two somewhere in the draft and a few non-drafted players. We need someone at QB (FA) to start the season (not depend on JM). This person, plus a draft pick, plus Shaw, plus JM, plus an undrafted player or two gives us 6 QB options going into camp.
Focus the rest of the draft and FA on key improvements to the lines and linebackers. I like the strategy of one OL and one DL in the first round. I would duplicate this in round 4&5 with linemen that have the size and ability to be trained/improved.
Just think of how much can be changed with 6 FA's. 10 picks, and 2 undrafted players. That's 1/3 of the team.
- I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities.
- They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month.
- I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere.
- We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player
- 6 QB options going into camp.
A true hodgepodge of an Rx...
1. I hate consultants... that said I am available for $1000/ day, three-day minimum plus expenses. Call me, Jimmy.
But I have yet to see solid evidence of dysfunction. Responsibilities have been divided. But it is a good thing that folks are not in silos... communicating across reporting lines is not nevessarily a bad thing, be it by voice, e-mail or even text.
2. Fuck PR. Ultimately only on-field performance changes perception. In the mean time, just get the draft right.
3. Yes, the 2ndary was a strength. Here's the thing... Skrine was a key part of making it so.
4. Three FAs at WR alone? As mentioned already... your plan is too FA dependent.
5. Six QB options in Camp? That would have to be a record...
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- I suggest they hire someone as a consultant during the offseason to set the cultural norms and clearly divide roles & responsibilities.
- They also need to reverse the bad PR of the past month.
- I disagree with re-signing Skrine as our d-secondary is a strength and we need the money elsewhere.
- We need 3 FA signings at WR. One should be a marquee player
- 6 QB options going into camp.
A true hodgepodge of an Rx...
1. I hate consultants... that said I am available for $1000/ day, three-day minimum plus expenses. Call me, Jimmy.
But I have yet to see solid evidence of dysfunction. Responsibilities have been divided. But it is a good thing that folks are not in silos... communicating across reporting lines is not nevessarily a bad thing, be it by voice, e-mail or even text.
2. Fuck PR. Ultimately only on-field performance changes perception. In the mean time, just get the draft right.
3. Yes, the 2ndary was a strength. Here's the thing... Skrine was a key part of making it so.
4. Three FAs at WR alone? As mentioned already... your plan is too FA dependent.
5. Six QB options in Camp? That would have to be a record...
A true hodgepodge of an Rx...1. I hate consultants... that said I am available for $1000/ day, three-day minimum plus expenses. Call me, Jimmy.But I have yet to see solid evidence of dysfunction. Responsibilities have been divided. But it is a good thing that folks are not in silos... communicating across reporting lines is not nevessarily a bad thing, be it by voice, e-mail or even text.2. Fuck PR. Ultimately only on-field performance changes perception. In the mean time, just get the draft right.3. Yes, the 2ndary was a strength. Here's the thing... Skrine was a key part of making it so.4. Three FAs at WR alone? As mentioned already... your plan is too FA dependent.5. Six QB options in Camp? That would have to be a record...
Well, we disagree on all points except building through the draft. "No evidence of dysfunction"? You gotta be kidding, right? We're do I begin to show you? Oh, ya, just about every article and interview in the last month! PR is important in signing FA's and keeping existing players. WR? We have two slot receivers and Benji. Next to QB, it may be our weakest position on the team. We need 3-4 new wide-outs and I expect Farmer to find them. Skrine was great but we already have 3 players that hopefully can take his place. QB's? I'm expecting Farmer to get creative and look under every rock. Maybe we make an RG3 play on Mariotta, (I hope not) or maybe we go with Hoyer/Sanchez/etc. One thing for sure, we can't rely on JF. Finally, yes my plan is FA dependent and maybe only 3-4 stick with the team, but we have to address key weaknesses in FA with skilled veteran players while we build through the draft. It worked well last year and will be again this year if it's done smartly.
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In our division all the teams were bunched close together with no team standing out head and shoulders above the others.
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A true hodgepodge of an Rx...1. I hate consultants... that said I am available for $1000/ day, three-day minimum plus expenses. Call me, Jimmy.But I have yet to see solid evidence of dysfunction. Responsibilities have been divided. But it is a good thing that folks are not in silos... communicating across reporting lines is not nevessarily a bad thing, be it by voice, e-mail or even text.2. Fuck PR. Ultimately only on-field performance changes perception. In the mean time, just get the draft right.3. Yes, the 2ndary was a strength. Here's the thing... Skrine was a key part of making it so.4. Three FAs at WR alone? As mentioned already... your plan is too FA dependent.5. Six QB options in Camp? That would have to be a record...
Well, we disagree on all points except building through the draft. "No evidence of dysfunction"? You gotta be kidding, right? We're do I begin to show you? Oh, ya, just about every article and interview in the last month! PR is important in signing FA's and keeping existing players. WR? We have two slot receivers and Benji. Next to QB, it may be our weakest position on the team. We need 3-4 new wide-outs and I expect Farmer to find them. Skrine was great but we already have 3 players that hopefully can take his place. QB's? I'm expecting Farmer to get creative and look under every rock. Maybe we make an RG3 play on Mariotta, (I hope not) or maybe we go with Hoyer/Sanchez/etc. One thing for sure, we can't rely on JF. Finally, yes my plan is FA dependent and maybe only 3-4 stick with the team, but we have to address key weaknesses in FA with skilled veteran players while we build through the draft. It worked well last year and will be again this year if it's done smartly.
Well, we disagree on all points except building through the draft. "No evidence of dysfunction"? You gotta be kidding, right? We're do I begin to show you? Oh, ya, just about every article and interview in the last month! PR is important in signing FA's and keeping existing players. WR? We have two slot receivers and Benji. Next to QB, it may be our weakest position on the team. We need 3-4 new wide-outs and I expect Farmer to find them. Skrine was great but we already have 3 players that hopefully can take his place. QB's? I'm expecting Farmer to get creative and look under every rock. Maybe we make an RG3 play on Mariotta, (I hope not) or maybe we go with Hoyer/Sanchez/etc. One thing for sure, we can't rely on JF. Finally, yes my plan is FA dependent and maybe only 3-4 stick with the team, but we have to address key weaknesses in FA with skilled veteran players while we build through the draft. It worked well last year and will be again this year if it's done smartly.
For the record, I am cool with agreeing to disagree, but I do want to make sure differences are clear. So as a courtesy to a fellow Browns fan...
Quotes should include all the exact words of the person you are quoting. "Solid" was my key word you omitted.
Texting: Someone (Farmer. Others?) texted someone (Shanny? Others?) during a game(?) about something(s) (plays? personnel?) What is solid here so far appears to be texts were sent and Farmer sent some. Until we know the rest, which we eventually should given the league investigation, I'm not going to give other info credence.
JM & JG: Personal failings or systemic organizational dysfunction? Even if taken as evidence of the latter, which I do not concede, is a two-player total now the bar?
The Draft: Anyone would feel better if both our #1's had been productive, poster boys, but they weren't. Yet despite their non-participation, our draft, plus UDFA and FA signings scream competence, not dysfunction.
PR: Disagree. PR is a veil. It's lipstick on a pig. It means nothing to players already seeing any situation first hand. And any FA thinking of coming is going to at minimum "know a guy who knows a guy".
Team Needs: We just disagree. I'll only add that there are limits to how many new players an organization can absorb at one time.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
perception is everything and my perception is not one of dysfunction.....but possibly transparency and accountability....
MANY MANY of the things we heard/saw/learned this year were because Pettine and the FO were:
1) Open and honest, as opposed to the usual tight lipped approach
2) Visibly held players accountable(and out of games), as opposed to sweeping issues under the rug or letting them get away with stuff
3) Stepped up and made changes to the staff, rather than keep people who weren;t good(just to save face)
yeah....we've been hearing and seeing a lot of crap....but I believe this crap happens everywhere - all the time - but usually gets covered up and hidden from the fans for PR reasons......people want to say FO's always cover their asses and stand behind "their picks", but I say this one does the opposite by making everyone accountable.....
People are screaming dysfunction and all I see (FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER) is accountability and quick decisive decision making....
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@douche-nozzle said:
No offense but if you fail to see solid evidence of dysfunction it can only be because you refuse to see what is right in front of you. Forget the history of the Browns multi-decade dysfunction and just look at the "play like a Brown" era. Major busts in the draft, you draft a freak show for a QB, your best weapon is a moron and may never play another down, your management is anything but on the same page, despite proof to the contrary your management continues to start from scratch nearly every year, your management is breaking rules by texting and calling the coaches during the game, your management is too dumb to realize that texting and calling during the game isn't going to fix ANYTHING, your brightest coaching prospect has to lay out a Power Point presentation as to why he should be able to leave, you have to hire no-name coaches because nobody wants to touch the Browns with a ten foot poll,...... and all of this under an era of "play like a Brown"? In order for "play like a Brown" to mean anything remotely positive, you have to go back.....way back.....
Drop the "play like a Brown" tag until it means something respectable, and take baby steps....many, many baby steps; and maybe in 3-5 years you can get players and coaches with experience to come here and rule the nucleus you've built.
Major busts in the draft
Good point. It's common knowledge that if a rookie doesn't blow it up in his first season, he's a bust. Just look at Terry Bradshaw, Michael Vick, Vinny Testerverde, etc.
Freak show for a QB
Also most polarizing prospect. Also a Heisman trophy winner. Also one of the highest ceilings. Risk/reward pick, so far it's been a bust.
Best weapon is a moron
Josh Gordon wasn't acquired by this Front Office, so that point is moot.
Management is anything but on the same page
I'd love to know where you heard that. By all accounts, Haslam, Farmer and Scheiner are all on the same page and even sit in on meetings and film study with Pettine. Sounds like the same page to me. Produce evidence of the contrary or shut the fuck up.
Brightest coaching prospect
If you truly feel that Kyle Shanahan is the brightest coaching prospect, you're a fool. The guy was a mediocre offensive coordinator everywhere he's been. Stop glorifying him because his last name is Shanahan.
I forgot that only coaches with experience win in the NFL.
Your entire response was rambling garbage with little basis in fact. Try again.
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@douche-nozzle said:
That BS doesn't even deserve a response.
Oh, factual evidence?
Exactly. Get the fuck out of here, you dumb fucking chump.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I'm thinking more of the litany of failed first round draft picks which are fact.....fuckwad!
I forgot that, when you become boss, you inherit all of the mistakes of your predecessors. I should have realized that drafting Brady Quinn was Ray Farmer's fault. How silly of me.
Yes, freak show for a QB and the fact that you refuse to see it speaks volumes.....fuckwad!
I don't refuse to see anything. I searched NFL, ESPN, CBSSports, PFF, Pro Football Reference, yet couldn't find any metric entitles "freak show". When I choose to evaluate a player, I tend to use comparable metrics and not personal, unquantifiable opinions. If you'd like to talk about his mental makeup, his motivating factors, his drive, etc...I'm all for it. But I'm not sure how to talk about his "freak show"-ness.
This front office keeps the high flying circus in full gear by keeping him.....fuckwad!
You're right, they should have released him when he got suspended. Now he's just sitting there, not collecting money, not counting anything toward the salary cap, not accruing any time on his contract. What would have been the smart decision is to release a 23-year old Pro Bowl receiver with a proven on-field track record and replace him with a 21-year old UDFA. Because, at the end of the day, what really matters in the NFL is how many people like your team...not wins.
Owner meddling with the draf..... owner, Schiener, and GM reviewing game day film.......coaches begging to be allowed to get the fuck out of Dodge.....the list is virtually endles....... the Browns, under this management, despite a sizable improvement in record, have managed to become the laughing stock of the NFL yet again ....come on, not even you are this stupid fuckwad!
Farmer and Scheiner are management. Pettine is not management. Pettine is a coach. By all accounts, Farmer and Scheiner have been working together in a united front. That's called "management being on the same page". The fact that you don't understand the basic hierarchy of an NFL front office is nobody's fault but your own. And maybe your parents.
As for Shanahan, clearly the smart business decision would have been forcing the guy to stay throughout the remainder of his contract. As we all know, disgruntled employees work much harder than their happy counterparts. I'm sure you've noticed this among your fellow burger-flippers.
Just a simple question a simple mind like yours.....what other Browns coach would be hired into a solid franchise in as short of a time as Shanahan was?
My bad, I forgot how solid of a franchise the Atlanta Falcons are.
You know, the franchise that has now had back-to-back sub .500 seasons (4-12, 6-10). The franchise that just fired their winningest coach in history. The franchise that doesn't trust their own general manager to the point where he no longer has any say in roster decisions, nor any scouting decisions. The franchise that had to hire an outside agency to help find a new head coach. The franchise that is going to be handed some sort of penalty because they've been piping in fake crowd noises.
Arthur Blank hates Thomas Dimitroff. Go ahead...Google those names, because you clearly have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Dimitroff is a lame-duck. He has barely any power, if at all. He's free to leave basically whenever he wants, because all he's in charge of is making sure they don't pay Matt Ryan over $100 million dollars. Oh...wait.
A very solid franchise, for sure. So solid, in fact, that they recently employed Joe Banner as a "consultant". The same Joe Banner that Haslam fired last year due to him being such a dick that coaches refused to interview with him. The same Joe Banner that was responsible, in some way, for the litany of first round busts you complained about earlier.
So now they have a failed Browns exec as a consultant, a failed Chiefs exec as assistant GM and a lame-duck GM who can't even be trusted to do his job. Definitely a super solid franchise. We really screwed the pooch letting Shanahan walk to Atlanta.
You are obviously simple minded!
Obviously. If only I could be as intelligent as you.
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