Rumor: Browns interested in trading up for Mariota
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Your sarcasm is duly noted but...answer me this, how well has drafting for every position worked for us?
Exactly.
But...but...but...offensive line.
In the last 5 years? Quite well, actually.
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Your sarcasm is duly noted but...answer me this, how well has drafting for every position worked for us?
Exactly.
But...but...but...offensive line.
In the last 5 years? Quite well, actually.
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That has to be the mindset. The Browns are not in a position where having Manziel or a solid starting QB will be the difference between finishing around .500 or getting to the Superbowl.
Fill the other needs through the draft and free agency, without compromising your cap or next years' draft picks, and give the players a season to get comfortable with each other.
If by the end of the season Manziel has proven to be a failure, the goal in 2016 has to be to find a solid QB, whether it's Cardale or someone who becomes available through trade/FA.
I'd venture that they are, considering as they almost finished .500 with Hoyer at the helm.
I don't see why some fans think we're so devoid of talent. We have a very talented team. Holes? Sure. We could use a bookend tackle, a DT, a pass rusher and a #1 WR.
But, on paper, you could have said the same about the Patriots or Seahawks at the beginning of this season. Meanwhile the Broncos, on paper, looked to be locks.
It doesn't matter the individual talent of each position, it matters how well the team performs cohesively. We could stand an upgrade at some positions but overall we have a solidly talented team.
I'd venture that they are, considering as they almost finished .500 with Hoyer at the helm.
I don't see why some fans think we're so devoid of talent. We have a very talented team. Holes? Sure. We could use a bookend tackle, a DT, a pass rusher and a #1 WR.
But, on paper, you could have said the same about the Patriots or Seahawks at the beginning of this season. Meanwhile the Broncos, on paper, looked to be locks.
It doesn't matter the individual talent of each position, it matters how well the team performs cohesively. We could stand an upgrade at some positions but overall we have a solidly talented team.
Then we'll have to disagree on that point. The Browns have an excellent core at the moment, but they are as close to the Superbowl contenders as they are to the Buccaneers and Jaguars. (Strictly looking at the 2014 record, they fall right in between Tampa Bay and the top five teams which finished 12-4.)
The team almost finished .500 with an easy schedule and they barely won games against some of the worst teams in the league (Saints, Falcons, Raiders, Buccaneers, Titans).
The Broncos still made it to the Divisional round though, and would have played in the AFC Championship if Manning could still throw the ball accurately over 20 yards. The Patriots struggled at the start of the season, sure, but they have a secondary which is just as good as the Brown's and a Tom Brady led offense. The Seahawks played poorly at the start of the season, but they still had the best defense in the league and a dominant running game.
The Browns do not have a dominant defense unless they can fill the needs in the front seven this offseason. The running game is good (if the OL stays healthy), but nothing exceptional, and the QB/WR groups are as bad as you'll find in the NFL. I like the direction the team is going and the plan that is in place with regards to personnel, but there is still a long way to go before I can be convinced that the Browns are anything more than a somewhat competitive team.
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Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA.
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Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA.
Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA.
And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel.
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Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA.
And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel.
And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel.
Well that's the kiss of death.
Foolish? Browns? OK, give away the house for another in a long line of QB's. It's the Browns being the Foolish Browns at their best. Reputation for that is on the line and far more important than building from the inside out. Sweet Jesus we have 10 draft picks this year and tons of cap money to find a truly dominating defense and O line. Don't throw that all away once again. If you build it properly, the QB will want to be here.
It would seem to me that giving away the bank to get one of these two goes against Terry's "informational" article of two weeks ago other that they were not sure what to do at QB yet.
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Manziel will be given another chance this year. We will either sign Hoyer or get another FA.
And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel.
And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel.
Not sure about that. I think if they could package him in a trade they would/will.
"Hey, I got a skinny 5'11 QB with no pocket passing skills, he's in rehab now, but would look great on your roster, what are you willing to give up for him?"
I think we may be stuck with Johnny, but that should not effect what we do to address the starting QB position, whether that is bringing in the right free agent or going all in on Mariotta.
We are lucky in that we have enough draft picks and money that we can just eat this pick and move on.
Zombo
--and if he sticks on the roster and eventually makes something of himself, all the better. Be we would be foolish to count on that.
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A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season.
WSS
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And we need to do that. It would be foolish not to see where it goes with Manziel.
Well that's the kiss of death.
Foolish? Browns? OK, give away the house for another in a long line of QB's. It's the Browns being the Foolish Browns at their best. Reputation for that is on the line and far more important than building from the inside out. Sweet Jesus we have 10 draft picks this year and tons of cap money to find a truly dominating defense and O line. Don't throw that all away once again. If you build it properly, the QB will want to be here.
It would seem to me that giving away the bank to get one of these two goes against Terry's "informational" article of two weeks ago other that they were not sure what to do at QB yet.
Foolish? Browns? OK, give away the house for another in a long line of QB's.
...none of which were drafted in the top 20...
It makes sense to watch failure-after-failure at the QB position when we've never had the balls to draft somebody early enough because of being "afraid" we might "miss." It's much safer to continue drafting lesser talent with the HOPE they will develop. Then, when you throw them into a game and they suck balls you can say things like... "well, they were only a 3rd (or 4th or 7th) round pick."
I'm not saying this is the perfect year to trade up, but WHY NOT? There are 2 pretty darn good looking QBs coming out and "pretty darn good looking" is better than anything we've had in the last 16 years...
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well if you figure someone might be willing to trade with us to move up (and garner yet another first rounder for next year) considering our 'beast' schedule which everyone is already picking us to finish worse than last season, wouldn't we be in better shape to do that next year?
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A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season.
WSS
A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season.
WSS
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
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The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
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The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
Agree-Right now BH (with a healthy and reinforced OL thru draft/fa) is the best bet we got going this year. Pay the man to stay a couple more years. Use the picks to build the rest of the team.
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If Winston were a "can't miss", he'd be impossible to get. 99% of the can't miss prospects are had by luck (no pun intended).i think the browns have a lot of talent. the question is do you trade your first round and 'something' else to move up to take winston or mariota when no one has them graded as the next andrew luck?
meanwhile with the first round we could get a dominate DT, a #1 WR and the rest you mentioned plus more in the later rounds (depending how much maneuvering the browns do). then if the FO thinks we're just that QB away next year you go all in.
hell, a lot of people thought (cough) manziel was the answer last year and we all see how good that worked out.
Winston's on field performance has very few flaws. He'd be a can't miss if not for one instance - the rape allegation.
Crab legs, the cafe incident...wouldn't be mentioned if not for the rape allegation.
Cam Newton stole laptops from classmates at Florida and was caught. Peyton Manning rubbed his bare ass and balls on a female trainer's face. Tom Brady left his pregnant girlfriend for someone else. Ben Roethlisberger may have sexually accosted someone. Brett Favre was a pill-popping drunk.
Every QB has a flaw somewhere. It's about finding the QB with the flaws you can manage or iron out.
Comparing Manziel and Winston just because they have off the field issues is like comparing Dalton and Weeden because they both have red hair.
We don't know the Manziel won't be a perennial Pro Bowler. However, if Winston can be had for the right price, I think it would be worth it to take a guy with the same amount of off the field questions but with a much, much more complete skill set.
If Winston were a "can't miss", he'd be impossible to get. 99% of the can't miss prospects are had by luck (no pun intended).
Winston's on field performance has very few flaws. He'd be a can't miss if not for one instance - the rape allegation.
Crab legs, the cafe incident...wouldn't be mentioned if not for the rape allegation.
Cam Newton stole laptops from classmates at Florida and was caught. Peyton Manning rubbed his bare ass and balls on a female trainer's face. Tom Brady left his pregnant girlfriend for someone else. Ben Roethlisberger may have sexually accosted someone. Brett Favre was a pill-popping drunk.
Every QB has a flaw somewhere. It's about finding the QB with the flaws you can manage or iron out.
Comparing Manziel and Winston just because they have off the field issues is like comparing Dalton and Weeden because they both have red hair.
We don't know the Manziel won't be a perennial Pro Bowler. However, if Winston can be had for the right price, I think it would be worth it to take a guy with the same amount of off the field questions but with a much, much more complete skill set.
Dude he's on video casually strolling out of a grocery store with a bag, of all things, of fucking crab legs.......but of course it would be talked about rape allegations or not. The café incident...amongst hundreds of smartphone obsessed college students all live tweeting the whole thing.....offff cccooouurrrssee it's going to be talked about if you're a prospect like Winston. Some MAC starter? No, who gives a shit...the guy that's contending his team for a national championship and angling himself to be the #1 pick? What times are we living in? These kids can't take a sideways shit without someone writing about it.
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I can't believe that this team, seeing our high QB pick failures, is even contemplating a high pick QB that we're gonna have to give up "a lot" to move up for. It would be one thing if we had one of those top picks, to look at a QB....but leveraging our draft for the next year or two on another skinny read option QB with a medium arm? It just doesn't make sense. If we're gonna have a small read option QB scampering out of the pocket for his life on every down i'd pretty much rather it be Manziel cause A) we already have him don't have to give up shit and
He's short but sturdier than Mariota, a lot sturdier. Mariota is faster but he will get Vick'ed out of the league in a few years if whatever team he goes to has him running consistently. -
A lot more foolish to ignore the needs of the team that have cost us success by squandering resources on 3 quarterbacks every season.
WSS
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
And which of them struggled there first year as a starter? And what are the consistency numbers like?
And how many of the coaching staffs had been around for less than 2 years?
WSS
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The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
The idea of getting the QB right is when the opportunity presents its self and all can see.
To me, that isn't Mariota. As by the day I see Winston being the #1 overall now that Tampa has let McCown go.
You're right, thus team does need to invest a top 10 pick into a QB eventually. This isn't the year for that.
Agreed- I'm not a Mariota fan- and Winston needs to prove he isn't a shoplifter\rapist.
If it means sticking with Hoyer or Manziel- and we "Fail for Cardale" so be it.
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Zombo said:
We gotta get one.
Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Manning
Romo
Flacco
Cam
Those were the Quarterbacks of the last eight teams standing last year.
We have Manziel and Shaw.
C'mon man.
If you don't get the Qb right, everything else goes to waste.
Zombo
And which of them struggled there first year as a starter? And what are the consistency numbers like?
And how many of the coaching staffs had been around for less than 2 years?
WSS
And which of them struggled there first year as a starter? And what are the consistency numbers like?
And how many of the coaching staffs had been around for less than 2 years?
WSS
Nothing wrong with developing and I am all for continuity and keeping this staff together.
But if they make a call that they don't think Johnny is the answer there is absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in somebody who might be.
I mean, we are talking about an undersized guy that showed lack of discipline and character his first year and looked completely lost running the offense. He is also a guy with a special skill set that must be built around him, IMO.
So, if they make the judgement call that he is not worth it and look for another starter, I am OK with that.
You sure give Manziel a lot of benefit of the doubt, maybe more than a prudent team in our position should. Sometimes there is honor in admitting you were probably wrong and launching a Plan B rather than just probably wasting a year because every first round pick "deserves" at least a full season of being the starter.
I think we would be absolute fools to just say "we drafted him, so we are going forward with him" without weighing other options.
Manziel was not committed to he team, not sure why the team has to be committed to him.
Zombo
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@douche-nozzle said:
The importance of a franchise QB is essential but putting one on the Browns right now would be a waste.
What's that mean?
You grab a franchise QB whenever you can get one, numbnuts.
We were 7-6 with Hoyer, you don't think a better QB improves us?
You must be the dumbest motherfucker on earth.
Zombo
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@douche-nozzle said:
The importance of a franchise QB is essential but putting one on the Browns right now would be a waste.
Id also like to point out that the teams those QB's had when they started out were quite good talent wise around their young QB.
Wilson had a strong run game and defense to rely on. Cam had a similar situation plus the resurgence of Steve Smith.
Peyton might have had the worse situation, but that still including Marvin Harrison, Faulk and Terik Glenn on offense.
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