Rumor: Browns interested in trading up for Mariota
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Somewhere along the line someone misinterpreted my post and started claiming that I said we should mortgage the future for someone just because we haven't. That's not what I've said. In fact, it's the antithesis.
"If the guy isn't at the top of your list, don't waste the pick on him. If he is at the top of your list, do whatever it takes to get him. If he's ungettable, then don't take a shot in the dark on another QB just because."
That's been my entire point. At no point did I say we need to mortgage the future for Mariota, Winston, or anyone. All I've said is that we need to get a guy if he's the #1 guy on our board and, if he isn't, then we don't need to take someone else just because of value.
This isn't frustration and clouded judgment. It's based in fact. The Browns have value shopped for for a quarterback in the draft for the past 14 years. They've taken exactly one quarterback with their first pick since 1971, and that guy had no team around him. Since Couch, we've tried to value pick Quinn, value pick Manziel, we've panic picked Weeden, and we've gone with developmental guys like Frye and McCoy. Then all of those guys have had the franchise thrust on their shoulders. That's clearly the wrong way.
The Pats have had the opportunity to take guys and develop them because they've had Brady. They also had the opportunity to take Brady and work on developing him (which was the plan) because they had Bledsoe. The Packers had the opportunity to take Rodgers and develop him because they had Favre. The Seahawks had the opportunity to take Wilson because they had just invested in Flynn as their franchise guy. We don't have that luxury, because bad quarterback play at the top will push that developmental guy into the spotlight immediately and the fans will tear him apart. Our Wilson, Brady, Rodgers could be Shaw, but it's doubtful.
The people who say we need to build the team before adding the quarterback aren't wrong. I've been saying the same thing for years. Except now it's shifted from "build the team" to "five first rounders along the offensive line, four first rounders along the defensive line, a first round WR, a first round ILB, a first round edge rusher, a first round corner, a first round tight end, etc." They key pieces are there. We have a solid offensive line. Nobody was complaining about Schwartz before Mack went down. Our defensive line was riddled with injuries, but is still stocked with overall talent. Even with Rubin's eventual departure, our offensive line is just as talented as most others with the exception of Houston and a few others.
This isn't the same Browns team that took Couch. This isn't the same Browns team that took Quinn. I agree with Steve, this team would have looked markedly better with Couch at the helm. This team isn't a quarterback away from the Super Bowl, but they're certainly a quarterback away from being a competitive team.
Agree... the team is far more ready for that QB now. We have a line that can protect and generate a complementary run game and a D that week in and out can allow the use of that run game for four quarters.
That said, I was complaining about Schwartz before Mack went down... because Mitch was clearly the weak leak in the line. Then two things happened: Mitch got better and Mack's replacements were so atrocious that the spotlight left Mitch. Based on 2014 we can say that the D-line was two deep across the board, but the O-line was zero deep.
I was not letting other's replies shade your stance. I think this is where you muddied your "entire point" waters:
While I understand it is not the case, your language choice alone in the above makes you sound as frustrated as many others here. And when you additionally fail to address how you get that "competitive QB", it undermines your stance. That was the basis of my reply.The Browns have tried to shop for value and gotten fucked numerous times. Stop being pussies and trying to backdoor your way into the playoffs. Get a quarterback who can compete. You don't plan for a Wilson or a Brady.
As for not being able to shop for value QBs... bullshit. Any team at any time can do that. We've done it. Holding off their playing until they are ready? Different issue... and yes, much harder if you lack an established QB. But that's mostly resolve, with a dash of circumstance.
McCoy was going to be a red-shirt until Wallace followed DelHomme's ankle sprain example... hell, we even played a clearly still hobbled Jake after Seneca went down. And then McCoy had the temerity to not completely suck.
Manziel was going to be a red shirt until Hoyer player his way out of favor.
Wheezy's starting was just a continuation of the panic that made us pick him.
Quinn... well that was just fucked up to begin with... I don't think Romeo had a plan.
Maybe the better argument is around our failure to land better FA, "bridge" QBs. It's not like we haven't tried.
But in any case you can't use an example of a team having an established QB who never started a game for them... Flynn? C'mon man!
Then two things happened: Mitch got better and Mack's replacements were so atrocious that the spotlight left Mitch. Based on 2014 we can say that the D-line was two deep across the board, but the O-line was zero deep.
As for not being able to shop for value QBs... bullshit. Any team at any time can do that. We've done it. Holding off their playing until they are ready? Different issue... and yes, much harder if you lack an established QB. But that's mostly resolve, with a dash of circumstance.
Schwartz finished in the top 10 in PBE according to our friends at PFF. One of the reasons I'd prefer to spend mid round picks on quality Oline backups as I feel, across the board our starting 5 are the tops in the NFL when healthy and together.
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Somewhere along the line someone misinterpreted my post and started claiming that I said we should mortgage the future for someone just because we haven't. That's not what I've said. In fact, it's the antithesis.
"If the guy isn't at the top of your list, don't waste the pick on him. If he is at the top of your list, do whatever it takes to get him. If he's ungettable, then don't take a shot in the dark on another QB just because."
That's been my entire point. At no point did I say we need to mortgage the future for Mariota, Winston, or anyone. All I've said is that we need to get a guy if he's the #1 guy on our board and, if he isn't, then we don't need to take someone else just because of value.
This isn't frustration and clouded judgment. It's based in fact. The Browns have value shopped for for a quarterback in the draft for the past 14 years. They've taken exactly one quarterback with their first pick since 1971, and that guy had no team around him. Since Couch, we've tried to value pick Quinn, value pick Manziel, we've panic picked Weeden, and we've gone with developmental guys like Frye and McCoy. Then all of those guys have had the franchise thrust on their shoulders. That's clearly the wrong way.
The Pats have had the opportunity to take guys and develop them because they've had Brady. They also had the opportunity to take Brady and work on developing him (which was the plan) because they had Bledsoe. The Packers had the opportunity to take Rodgers and develop him because they had Favre. The Seahawks had the opportunity to take Wilson because they had just invested in Flynn as their franchise guy. We don't have that luxury, because bad quarterback play at the top will push that developmental guy into the spotlight immediately and the fans will tear him apart. Our Wilson, Brady, Rodgers could be Shaw, but it's doubtful.
The people who say we need to build the team before adding the quarterback aren't wrong. I've been saying the same thing for years. Except now it's shifted from "build the team" to "five first rounders along the offensive line, four first rounders along the defensive line, a first round WR, a first round ILB, a first round edge rusher, a first round corner, a first round tight end, etc." They key pieces are there. We have a solid offensive line. Nobody was complaining about Schwartz before Mack went down. Our defensive line was riddled with injuries, but is still stocked with overall talent. Even with Rubin's eventual departure, our offensive line is just as talented as most others with the exception of Houston and a few others.
This isn't the same Browns team that took Couch. This isn't the same Browns team that took Quinn. I agree with Steve, this team would have looked markedly better with Couch at the helm. This team isn't a quarterback away from the Super Bowl, but they're certainly a quarterback away from being a competitive team.
Agree... the team is far more ready for that QB now. We have a line that can protect and generate a complementary run game and a D that week in and out can allow the use of that run game for four quarters.
That said, I was complaining about Schwartz before Mack went down... because Mitch was clearly the weak leak in the line. Then two things happened: Mitch got better and Mack's replacements were so atrocious that the spotlight left Mitch. Based on 2014 we can say that the D-line was two deep across the board, but the O-line was zero deep.
I was not letting other's replies shade your stance. I think this is where you muddied your "entire point" waters:
While I understand it is not the case, your language choice alone in the above makes you sound as frustrated as many others here. And when you additionally fail to address how you get that "competitive QB", it undermines your stance. That was the basis of my reply.The Browns have tried to shop for value and gotten fucked numerous times. Stop being pussies and trying to backdoor your way into the playoffs. Get a quarterback who can compete. You don't plan for a Wilson or a Brady.
As for not being able to shop for value QBs... bullshit. Any team at any time can do that. We've done it. Holding off their playing until they are ready? Different issue... and yes, much harder if you lack an established QB. But that's mostly resolve, with a dash of circumstance.
McCoy was going to be a red-shirt until Wallace followed DelHomme's ankle sprain example... hell, we even played a clearly still hobbled Jake after Seneca went down. And then McCoy had the temerity to not completely suck.
Manziel was going to be a red shirt until Hoyer player his way out of favor.
Wheezy's starting was just a continuation of the panic that made us pick him.
Quinn... well that was just fucked up to begin with... I don't think Romeo had a plan.
Maybe the better argument is around our failure to land better FA, "bridge" QBs. It's not like we haven't tried.
But in any case you can't use an example of a team having an established QB who never started a game for them... Flynn? C'mon man!
Agree... the team is far more ready for that QB now. We have a line that can protect and generate a complementary run game and a D that week in and out can allow the use of that run game for four quarters.
That said, I was complaining about Schwartz before Mack went down... because Mitch was clearly the weak leak in the line. Then two things happened: Mitch got better and Mack's replacements were so atrocious that the spotlight left Mitch. Based on 2014 we can say that the D-line was two deep across the board, but the O-line was zero deep.
I was not letting other's replies shade your stance. I think this is where you muddied your "entire point" waters:
While I understand it is not the case, your language choice alone in the above makes you sound as frustrated as many others here. And when you additionally fail to address how you get that "competitive QB", it undermines your stance. That was the basis of my reply.
As for not being able to shop for value QBs... bullshit. Any team at any time can do that. We've done it. Holding off their playing until they are ready? Different issue... and yes, much harder if you lack an established QB. But that's mostly resolve, with a dash of circumstance.
McCoy was going to be a red-shirt until Wallace followed DelHomme's ankle sprain example... hell, we even played a clearly still hobbled Jake after Seneca went down. And then McCoy had the temerity to not completely suck.
Manziel was going to be a red shirt until Hoyer player his way out of favor.
Wheezy's starting was just a continuation of the panic that made us pick him.
Quinn... well that was just fucked up to begin with... I don't think Romeo had a plan.
Maybe the better argument is around our failure to land better FA, "bridge" QBs. It's not like we haven't tried.
But in any case you can't use an example of a team having an established QB who never started a game for them... Flynn? C'mon man!juj
Regardless of what happened with Flynn, he was clearly their franchise quarterback choice. 3 years/ $26 million...that's not backup money.
You don't pay a guy $8 million a year in the offseason with the intention of him battling it out against a 3rd round rookie.
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Agree... the team is far more ready for that QB now. We have a line that can protect and generate a complementary run game and a D that week in and out can allow the use of that run game for four quarters.
That said, I was complaining about Schwartz before Mack went down... because Mitch was clearly the weak leak in the line. Then two things happened: Mitch got better and Mack's replacements were so atrocious that the spotlight left Mitch. Based on 2014 we can say that the D-line was two deep across the board, but the O-line was zero deep.
I was not letting other's replies shade your stance. I think this is where you muddied your "entire point" waters:
While I understand it is not the case, your language choice alone in the above makes you sound as frustrated as many others here. And when you additionally fail to address how you get that "competitive QB", it undermines your stance. That was the basis of my reply.
As for not being able to shop for value QBs... bullshit. Any team at any time can do that. We've done it. Holding off their playing until they are ready? Different issue... and yes, much harder if you lack an established QB. But that's mostly resolve, with a dash of circumstance.
McCoy was going to be a red-shirt until Wallace followed DelHomme's ankle sprain example... hell, we even played a clearly still hobbled Jake after Seneca went down. And then McCoy had the temerity to not completely suck.
Manziel was going to be a red shirt until Hoyer player his way out of favor.
Wheezy's starting was just a continuation of the panic that made us pick him.
Quinn... well that was just fucked up to begin with... I don't think Romeo had a plan.
Maybe the better argument is around our failure to land better FA, "bridge" QBs. It's not like we haven't tried.
But in any case you can't use an example of a team having an established QB who never started a game for them... Flynn? C'mon man!juj
Regardless of what happened with Flynn, he was clearly their franchise quarterback choice. 3 years/ $26 million...that's not backup money.
You don't pay a guy $8 million a year in the offseason with the intention of him battling it out against a 3rd round rookie.
Regardless of what happened with Flynn, he was clearly their franchise quarterback choice. 3 years/ $26 million...that's not backup money.
You don't pay a guy $8 million a year in the offseason with the intention of him battling it out against a 3rd round rookie.
Which proves they really didn't know what they had in either QB?
Moving on...
The talk coming out about concerns that MM is not enough of an Alpha-Male to succeed in the NFL, got me wondering: How key is being an Alpha-Male to becoming a franchise grade, NFL QB? To being an elite NFL QB?
Off hand it seems more the latter than the former.
Elite:
Brady - Alpha
P. Manning - Alpha
Rogers - Alpha Major
Luck - Alpha Minor
Franchise:
E. Manning - not so Alpha
Flacco - not so Alpha
Dalton - Beta
Wilson - Alpha-ish?
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Who's more likely to spend their downtime studying the art of playing QB then partying?
A - MM
B - JW
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Who's more likely to spend their downtime studying the art of playing QB then partying?
A - MM
B - JW
Who's more likely to spend their downtime studying the art of playing QB then partying?
A - MM
B - JW
They will get drunk together, steal some crab legs and catch the crabs.
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Answer C
Brian Hoyer, assuming he's not at Chuck E Cheese with his wife and kids.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Who's more likely to spend their downtime studying the art of playing QB then partying?
A - MM
B - JW
Who's more likely to spend their downtime studying the art of playing QB then partying?
A - MM
B - JW
There once was another 6'5" rushing quarterback who was one of the most humble, studious players to ever wear an NFL jersey. His teammates often called him "Coach", that's how much he studied the game. He kept a journal where he diagnosed every game immediately thereafter, basically debriefing himself on coverages, blitzes, etc. One writer even described him as having "all the equipment needed to fit in the modern NFL quarterback toolbox. He's 6-feet-6 and weighs 235 pounds. As Don Coryell often said, 'he runs like a deer.' He has plenty of arm. He's smart. He comes from a great background. He has a wonderful personality. He's a leader."
This guy studied the game all day every day and ended up being the highest drafted quarterback by the Bill Belichick Patriots.
That guy was Kevin O' Connell, he's now our QB coach. He had a real stellar career.
This just in- you're still a dumb fucking racist.
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Oh relax tcpo, I thought he was taking a shot at Johnny. Everybody hates him for partying. And who is white.
WSS
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Oh relax tcpo, I thought he was taking a shot at Johnny. Everybody hates him for partying. And who is white.
WSS
Oh relax tcpo, I thought he was taking a shot at Johnny. Everybody hates him for partying. And who is white.
WSS
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I guess I missed that. I was thinking he meant of those two which one would be most likely to party and cause problems off the field. I think that would probably be Winston? From what I've heard Marcus Mariota is a choir boy and a work a holic which everyone here seems to want. Quite a few anyway. The reason I took it as a slight to Johnny is that that's the reason everyone has hated him since before the draft.
I have seen reports that Jameis Winston has put on a fair amount of weight recently and that in itself could be a red flag. But like the innuendo about Johnny I have no idea if those reports are bullshit or not.
WSS
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Answer C
Brian Hoyer, assuming he's not at Chuck E Cheese with his wife and kids.
WSS
Answer C
Brian Hoyer, assuming he's not at Chuck E Cheese with his wife and kids.
WSS
Chuck e cheese is a hell hole man. Taking the kids there is horrible.
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I guess I missed that. I was thinking he meant of those two which one would be most likely to party and cause problems off the field. I think that would probably be Winston? From what I've heard Marcus Mariota is a choir boy and a work a holic which everyone here seems to want. Quite a few anyway. The reason I took it as a slight to Johnny is that that's the reason everyone has hated him since before the draft.
I have seen reports that Jameis Winston has put on a fair amount of weight recently and that in itself could be a red flag. But like the innuendo about Johnny I have no idea if those reports are bullshit or not.
WSS
I have seen reports that Jameis Winston has put on a fair amount of weight recently and that in itself could be a red flag. But like the innuendo about Johnny I have no idea if those reports are bullshit or not.
WSS
Too much butter on the crab legs prolly.
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Oh relax tcpo, I thought he was taking a shot at Johnny. Everybody hates him for partying. And who is white.
WSS
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
I was mistaken. I had confused master dog with bacon hound. My bad.
WSS
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Oh relax tcpo, I thought he was taking a shot at Johnny. Everybody hates him for partying. And who is white.
WSS
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Difference between hyperbole, and being a racist. Winston's off-field issues have been well documented. He gets more grief because he's way higher profile. Example: no one talks about Armonty Bryant getting busted for selling weed, and a DUI- because he's not a Heisman winning qb.
MHO is we've just seen the tip of the iceberg at FSU. Massive coverup by not only the university, but the Talahasse PD too.
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Oh relax tcpo, I thought he was taking a shot at Johnny. Everybody hates him for partying. And who is white.
WSS
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Oh c'mon!
Why does robbing a KFC a racist remark? It's only racist because your guards are up and you are in full defense mode.
Let's be honest. You were wrong about Jonny last year when you told folks to brush aside his off field issues. Now you are telling us the same with Winston.. The fact is. He WAS CAUGHT STEALING.
Give us a focking break. You are the reason why this football team stinks. Dumb as fans that have no clue.
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Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Oh c'mon!
Why does robbing a KFC a racist remark? It's only racist because your guards are up and you are in full defense mode.
Let's be honest. You were wrong about Jonny last year when you told folks to brush aside his off field issues. Now you are telling us the same with Winston.. The fact is. He WAS CAUGHT STEALING.
Give us a focking break. You are the reason why this football team stinks. Dumb as fans that have no clue.
You are the reason why this football team stinks. Dumb as fans that have no clue.
Shut the fuck up you "I know more than you" white knight dope.
The reason this football team stinks is because of Lerner, Savage, Policy, Davis, Romeo, Mangini, Kokinis, Banner, Lombardi, Holmgren, Shurmer, etc and every other asshole that's walked though the doors in Berea.
The fans are the ONLY thing this team has. If you can see that, you're a total fucktard.
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You are the reason why this football team stinks. Dumb as fans that have no clue.
Shut the fuck up you "I know more than you" white knight dope.
The reason this football team stinks is because of Lerner, Savage, Policy, Davis, Romeo, Mangini, Kokinis, Banner, Lombardi, Holmgren, Shurmer, etc and every other asshole that's walked though the doors in Berea.
The fans are the ONLY thing this team has. If you can see that, you're a total fucktard.
The fans are the ONLY thing this team has. If you can see that, you're a total fucktard.No, the smart fans are the ONLY thing this team has.
We can do away with the fans that wants to see ticket sales and a fancy trademark name (Johnny Football).
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Those initials he labeled would indicate a comparison between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston.
And this moron has already pulled the race card once before by saying he was surprised Winston didn't rob a KFC.
Oh c'mon!
Why does robbing a KFC a racist remark? It's only racist because your guards are up and you are in full defense mode.
Let's be honest. You were wrong about Jonny last year when you told folks to brush aside his off field issues. Now you are telling us the same with Winston.. The fact is. He WAS CAUGHT STEALING.
Give us a focking break. You are the reason why this football team stinks. Dumb as fans that have no clue.
Oh c'mon!
Why does robbing a KFC a racist remark? It's only racist because your guards are up and you are in full defense mode.
Let's be honest. You were wrong about Jonny last year when you told folks to brush aside his off field issues. Now you are telling us the same with Winston.. The fact is. He WAS CAUGHT STEALING.
Give us a focking break. You are the reason why this football team stinks. Dumb as fans that have no clue.
I also said that after he was drafted, because we were stuck with him.
I was high on Blake Bortles since September 2013. If you're going to try and flame, get your facts straight.
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WE SHOULD HAD BLEW OUR ENTIRE DRAFT ON TRADING FOR HIM!!!
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