Who is under more pressure? Pet or Farmer?
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you are out of your mind.
Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have no problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING total suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind Fine
The scouts we relied on last year were leftovers from the previous regime. They were pretty much all canned the day after the draft last year and replaced by Farmer's guys.
Also - "Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. "
1) It's really difficult to read what you type, grammar is your friend
2) Two years?
3) Bitonio is undoubtedly his best pick, agreed
4) His only good pick? For third rounders, West and Kirksey have done pretty well and become key members of their respective rotations. Desir was always a project and actually looked pretty solid in his only outings, holding the previously explosive kelvin benjamin to about 45 yards and no TDs.
Players brought in by Farmer last year via FA, draft or UDFA that have become starters or part-time starters:
1) Bitonio
2) West
3) Kirksey
4) Crowell
5) Gabriel
6) Austin
7) Hawkins
Whitner9) Dansby
10) Williams
11) Dray
Most people here are happy with the play of most people on that list, under the assumption that the rookies take a step forward this year. That's not including other guys who have come in and contributed in some way like Shaw and Desir. So 11 either starters or rotational/split-time starters - I'll take that again this year in a heartbeat. Who cares where they were drafted, if at all?
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Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have no problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING total suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind Fine
The scouts we relied on last year were leftovers from the previous regime. They were pretty much all canned the day after the draft last year and replaced by Farmer's guys.
Also - "Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. "
1) It's really difficult to read what you type, grammar is your friend
2) Two years?
3) Bitonio is undoubtedly his best pick, agreed
4) His only good pick? For third rounders, West and Kirksey have done pretty well and become key members of their respective rotations. Desir was always a project and actually looked pretty solid in his only outings, holding the previously explosive kelvin benjamin to about 45 yards and no TDs.
Players brought in by Farmer last year via FA, draft or UDFA that have become starters or part-time starters:
1) Bitonio
2) West
3) Kirksey
4) Crowell
5) Gabriel
6) Austin
7) Hawkins
Whitner9) Dansby
10) Williams
11) Dray
Most people here are happy with the play of most people on that list, under the assumption that the rookies take a step forward this year. That's not including other guys who have come in and contributed in some way like Shaw and Desir. So 11 either starters or rotational/split-time starters - I'll take that again this year in a heartbeat. Who cares where they were drafted, if at all?
The scouts we relied on last year were leftovers from the previous regime. They were pretty much all canned the day after the draft last year and replaced by Farmer's guys.
Also - "Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. "
1) It's really difficult to read what you type, grammar is your friend
2) Two years?
3) Bitonio is undoubtedly his best pick, agreed
4) His only good pick? For third rounders, West and Kirksey have done pretty well and become key members of their respective rotations. Desir was always a project and actually looked pretty solid in his only outings, holding the previously explosive kelvin benjamin to about 45 yards and no TDs.
Players brought in by Farmer last year via FA, draft or UDFA that have become starters or part-time starters:
1) Bitonio
2) West
3) Kirksey
4) Crowell
5) Gabriel
6) Austin
7) Hawkins
Whitner9) Dansby
10) Williams
11) Dray
Most people here are happy with the play of most people on that list, under the assumption that the rookies take a step forward this year. That's not including other guys who have come in and contributed in some way like Shaw and Desir. So 11 either starters or rotational/split-time starters - I'll take that again this year in a heartbeat. Who cares where they were drafted, if at all?
OK new Scout's. It's show me what you got time in this Draft
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
That's all you took away? OK then I guess we're done here.
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Haslam seems like a smart man. He may just bring a winning team to Cleveland in spite of of all the whining, complaining and self destruction that goes on up there in Cleveland.
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... He may just bring a winning team to Cleveland in spite of of all the whining, complaining and self destruction that goes on up there in Cleveland. OldBrownsFan
*************************************
... from the media...
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... He may just bring a winning team to Cleveland in spite of of all the whining, complaining and self destruction that goes on up there in Cleveland. OldBrownsFan
*************************************
... from the media...
... He may just bring a winning team to Cleveland in spite of of all the whining, complaining and self destruction that goes on up there in Cleveland. OldBrownsFan
*************************************
... from the media...
It filters down.
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How is this even debatable? Pettine should basically be untouchable for the way the team was playing and the D stepped up, against Cinci and the colts in particular. Farmer is personally liable for any punishment coming our way (draft picks) as well as missing on his two first rounders last year.
That's not to say I'd get rid of Farmer, I think he's done a great job of bringing talent in so far and working under the difficult circumstances of last offseason. He should be around for years to come, with Pettine as well.
How is this even debatable? Pettine should basically be untouchable for the way the team was playing and the D stepped up, against Cinci and the colts in particular. Farmer is personally liable for any punishment coming our way (draft picks) as well as missing on his two first rounders last year.
That's not to say I'd get rid of Farmer, I think he's done a great job of bringing talent in so far and working under the difficult circumstances of last offseason. He should be around for years to come, with Pettine as well.
Totally agree... point of the thread was that all the postseason noise/ discussion was around how long Pet's leash would be. Now... the worm has turned.
The scouts we relied on last year were leftovers from the previous regime. They were pretty much all canned the day after the draft last year and replaced by Farmer's guys.
Seeing as I liked our 2014 draft in aggregate, I'm not sure turning over the scouting department is a comforting occurrence.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
How is this even debatable? Pettine should basically be untouchable for the way the team was playing and the D stepped up, against Cinci and the colts in particular. Farmer is personally liable for any punishment coming our way (draft picks) as well as missing on his two first rounders last year.
That's not to say I'd get rid of Farmer, I think he's done a great job of bringing talent in so far and working under the difficult circumstances of last offseason. He should be around for years to come, with Pettine as well.
Totally agree... point of the thread was that all the postseason noise/ discussion was around how long Pet's leash would be. Now... the worm has turned.
The scouts we relied on last year were leftovers from the previous regime. They were pretty much all canned the day after the draft last year and replaced by Farmer's guys.
Seeing as I liked our 2014 draft in aggregate, I'm not sure turning over the scouting department is a comforting occurrence.
Totally agree... point of the thread was that all the postseason noise/ discussion was around how long Pet's leash would be. Now... the worm has turned.
Seeing as I liked our 2014 draft in aggregate, I'm not sure turning over the scouting department is a comforting occurrence.
I think that is the key. The bigger picture of the entire draft. Hindsight is always 20/20 but at the time of last year's draft the expert people in the NFL were all grading Farmer very high.
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The scouts we relied on last year were leftovers from the previous regime. They were pretty much all canned the day after the draft last year and replaced by Farmer's guys.
Also - "Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. "
1) It's really difficult to read what you type, grammar is your friend
2) Two years?
3) Bitonio is undoubtedly his best pick, agreed
4) His only good pick? For third rounders, West and Kirksey have done pretty well and become key members of their respective rotations. Desir was always a project and actually looked pretty solid in his only outings, holding the previously explosive kelvin benjamin to about 45 yards and no TDs.
Players brought in by Farmer last year via FA, draft or UDFA that have become starters or part-time starters:
1) Bitonio
2) West
3) Kirksey
4) Crowell
5) Gabriel
6) Austin
7) Hawkins
Whitner9) Dansby
10) Williams
11) Dray
Most people here are happy with the play of most people on that list, under the assumption that the rookies take a step forward this year. That's not including other guys who have come in and contributed in some way like Shaw and Desir. So 11 either starters or rotational/split-time starters - I'll take that again this year in a heartbeat. Who cares where they were drafted, if at all?
OK new Scout's. It's show me what you got time in this Draft
So how did Oakland wind up with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr? We had two first round picks that Farmer bungled. Trading away # 4 then trading back in for Gilbert? This is illogical and arrogant. They made noise all right during the draft. If Farmer would have gotten off his stubborn ass and picked Mack and Beckham he still could have drafted a quarterback in the second round. Then we find out he's texting the coaches? Peeeee uuuuuuuuOK new Scout's. It's show me what you got time in this Draft
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So how did Oakland wind up with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr? We had two first round picks that Farmer bungled. Trading away # 4 then trading back in for Gilbert? This is illogical and arrogant. They made noise all right during the draft. If Farmer would have gotten off his stubborn ass and picked Mack and Beckham he still could have drafted a quarterback in the second round. Then we find out he's texting the coaches? Peeeee uuuuuuuuOK new Scout's. It's show me what you got time in this Draft
So how did Oakland wind up with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr? We had two first round picks that Farmer bungled. Trading away # 4 then trading back in for Gilbert? This is illogical and arrogant. They made noise all right during the draft. If Farmer would have gotten off his stubborn ass and picked Mack and Beckham he still could have drafted a quarterback in the second round. Then we find out he's texting the coaches? Peeeee uuuuuuuu
Dude, read what's there. Supposedly Farmer used the scouts from old reshime last season, than they were released after last seasons Draft. (and they damn sure should have been gone, after that) Bottom line, If Farmer Can Draft as well as he finds FA's the rest of this division is looking up at us. We cannot let our FA Talent walk like TJ and still have millionS (30) above the Cap... Mack after next season can opt out. We should be trying to resign him like a FA this season after what we saw after he went down..
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It filters down.
Unfortunately, yes it does. .... seems that very few are able to form their own sports opinions, because they focus on the gossip columns instead....sports is going the way of Fox news....
So how did Oakland wind up with Khalil Mack and Derek Carr? We had two first round picks that Farmer bungled. Trading away # 4 then trading back in for Gilbert? This is illogical and arrogant.
Trading a 1st round pick for 2 first rounds picks is illogical and arrogant?.....picking the #1 CB is illogical and arrogant?....how?
Only thing I see that is illogical is your comment.......and arm chair QB's who sit at home and second guess pros are a bit arrogant if you ask me.....
. We cannot let our FA Talent walk like TJ and still have millionS (30) above the Cap...
Um, yes we can........especially when they are replaced by better talent. All of our FA signings improved the team, with the exception of Tate, who was beat out by other players brought in by Farmer.....
No doubt, Whitner and Dansby were an improvement over Ward and Jackson....
And in ONE off season, we improved almost every position group....Linebackers(Kirksey/Dansby), DB's (Whitnet/Gilbert/Williams/Desir), Oline(Bitonio), RB's(Crow/West/Winston), WR (Hawkins/Gabe/Austin), TE (Dray).....
So, I challenge the haters to show me one recent Browns FO that did so much good in just one off season....and Ill add they did it on the fly, with little or no time to prepare.....
Oh yeah...forgot to add that AFTER doing all this, we still came out with more draft picks, more first rounders AND more cap space than anybody else....
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Never forget that #19 this year is part of that "arrogant" "screw-up". The jury is still out on that trade. Just don't give it away chasing savior #22 or whatever.
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you are out of your mind.
Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? don't like what farmer has done so far....screwed up the most important position which is the qb...the tj ward thing still pisses me off...we should have somehow kept him then we would not have had to draft gilbert and possibly could have gone after the wr that now resides in buffalo thus also ending gordon's career here....
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Losing the pick??, hurts 53 players and Pettine, that should piss off any Browns fan. Farmers best DRAFT pick in 2 Year's Bittino.That's it that's the list. I have NO problem with Farmer on his work on finding mystery No Name FREE AGENTS and named FA's. The SCOUTS that Farmer has in place for DRAFTING totally suck period. Farmer may want to offer Tour and other's on this Board, a scout job before Pettine and Farmer both lose a job. No Thanks, My Mind is Fine.
PS Farmer scares the shit out of me on trying to resign any of our talent. Example-- T J Ward walks and we sit on 30mill. above the cap ??? don't like what farmer has done so far....screwed up the most important position which is the qb...the tj ward thing still pisses me off...we should have somehow kept him then we would not have had to draft gilbert and possibly could have gone after the wr that now resides in buffalo thus also ending gordon's career here....
don't like what farmer has done so far....screwed up the most important position which is the qb...the tj ward thing still pisses me off...we should have somehow kept him then we would not have had to draft gilbert and possibly could have gone after the wr that now resides in buffalo thus also ending gordon's career here....
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
The only reason JM should start is if he is the best qb period. You don't start him for any other reason. I don't buy into some of these stories anymore. I see a good path to success the next season with the plan Pettine laid out of improving our defense into one of the best in the league. Whoever is qb will have the advantage of the Browns having one of the better O lines in the league. If the Manziel pick turns out to be a bust so be it, put it behind you and go forward, no need to fire anyone and tear down a foundation again over one mistake IMO. We know at least one of the reasons this club has not been successful since 99 has been for lack of continuity. I believe Haslam sees that. Pettine was one of the first HC in the league to get approval from the owner minutes after the last game of the season. Haslam has already shown his support for Farmer.
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Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season regardless of who they bring in as a "backup" (looking more and more like Josh McCown http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000473873/article/josh-mccown-visiting-qbneedy-cleveland-browns) or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick. "They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
Eric Davis on NFL Network this morning was insistent that the Browns must start JM this season.....................or either Farmer or Pettine losses his job for screwing up the pick.
"They must give him a real chance to either make it or fail as soon as they think he is ready. Otherwise one of those two losses his job."
Strong words.
I never buy into these types of statements......how does Davis know this and why would Pettine lose his job for a screwed up pick??...
I think the Browns gave him a real chance already....and, unfortunately, he failed that chance.....so they are still waiting till they think he's ready for chance #2....
Bottom line....the way things have already gone with JFF, I dont think he will make or break this FO going forward......
Haslem has spoken several times and said repeatedly that Pettine and Farmer are safe. He wouldn't do this if they were on the hot seat......
plus, I cant believe he would fire anyone due to a single bad pick.....And if he does, then he better be ready to hire a new GM every year or so....
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One of the "outs" that E.D. used is that if they start him most of the season and he still fails then they can blame it all on the "other" things that were going on with him that no one knew about. But he was adamant that he had not really been given a real fair shot like all the other rookies QB's that played this past year. I have said all along that it was not a fair shot to give him 1+ games with a Mack-less O line when even our starter who had been doing well fell apart without Mack.
We have a very good Oline, but as we showed this year we are 1 player away from being clearly crappy. We were unable to "fix" the loss of Mack.
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