Building through the draft
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1st off, the 2007 pick was perfect.
2nd, those were past regimes and should serve no bearing on evaluating this regime. If you look around the NFL, you'll see that great teams are built through the draft. Just because past regimes failed at it doesn't mean we should abandon that philosophy.
1st off, the 2007 pick was perfect.
2nd, those were past regimes and should serve no bearing on evaluating this regime. If you look around the NFL, you'll see that great teams are built through the draft. Just because past regimes failed at it doesn't mean we should abandon that philosophy.
Joe Thomas may be a HOF, first ballet no doubt, but he dosen't win us games. You know who would win us games? A star running back.
Also let me make this simpler, would you rather have.
Adrian Peterson and Joe Staley
Or
Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn
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1st off, the 2007 pick was perfect.
2nd, those were past regimes and should serve no bearing on evaluating this regime. If you look around the NFL, you'll see that great teams are built through the draft. Just because past regimes failed at it doesn't mean we should abandon that philosophy.
Joe Thomas may be a HOF, first ballet no doubt, but he dosen't win us games. You know who would win us games? A star running back.
Also let me make this simpler, would you rather have.
Adrian Peterson and Joe Staley
Or
Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn
It's your belief that Savage would have gone with Staley and not stuck with the apple of his eye with Quinn?Joe Thomas may be a HOF, first ballet no doubt, but he dosen't win us games. You know who would win us games? A star running back.
Also let me make this simpler, would you rather have.
Adrian Peterson and Joe Staley
Or
Joe Thomas and Brady Quinn
That's good for a laugh.
Also, aside from arguably the greatest season for a running back ever, how many games has AP won the Vikes?
They were dominant with one year under Farve because of Farve. Then Made the playoffs by being lucky enough to face Green Bays backups the last game of the regular season. They've had QB play as bad and in some cases worse than us plus up and down Oline play.
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Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
it begins and ends with replacing/acquiring the middle of the DL because of the reoccurring absence of phil taylor due to injury. then yes WR and then yes depth at OL (can't have another F'd up season because of our center going down).
QB this draft? sure if mariota falls to us at 12. if not maybe a hundley or a petty? that'd be cool with me but also think about jordan being gone at TE, our LB corp and kicking game. we could go up and down the positions and there could be arguments made that depth or upgrades could be made at easily 1/3 of the roster so there are plenty of holes to fill, which means draft picks.
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can we list the name of whining flippin' hookers on this board before, during and after the FA, draft?season/repeat/rinse?
OMG, we won't spend half our cap-space on oneplayer! OMG"
Mik- I reserve the right to bitch when I see something worthy to bitch about- and I see plenty of things bitch worthy right now.
Building through the draft is a fine concept......but when you draft those players who then leave right when they are hitting their prime it sort of undermines the whole concept, no?
I mean, we are losing the likes of Cameron, Sheard, Skrine, maybe some others. Guys we drafted what? No more than 5 years ago?
So....build through the draft and just when these players are starting to get good let them go elsewhere?
It is possible that it is not a function of this team wanting to build through the draft....but a function of wanting to build through THEIR drafts.....and the drafts that were conducted before they got here be damned. I guess that happens a lot. A lot of these pro personell guys and coaches are loyal to the people they have chosen, and are not loyal to people already on their team.
And so far the building through the draft....under Ray Farmer has garnered us Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in the first round....those have sucked so far, and it has gotten us some decent later rounders: Bitonio/West/Desir...maybe/Kirksey.
OK, you have 10 picks.....I expect 3-4 Pro Bowlers to come from these 10 picks.
Nailed it.
well the loss of an all-pro center and half the DL through those games might lead you to think that way but just because we're not jumping at every FA doesn't mean this team sucks.
i think we should all give these guys a chance to do their jobs.
if farmer produces like he did last year in the draft i'll be happy, if he throws up bricks and because of it the team goes 4 and 12 i'll be right here complaining along side of you. (highly doubt it tho).
Josh McCown sucks, is not an upgrade over Hoyer, Foles, or a healthy Sam Bradford.
Ahh building through the draft! We have been so good at doing that right? No.
2001- Passed on LaDainian Tomlinson for Gerard Warren
2002- Passed on Ed Reed for William Green
2004- Passed on Ben Rapistburger for Kellen WinSLOW
2005- Passed on Aaron Rodgers, DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman for Braylon "Mr.Drops" Edwards
2007- Passed Adrian Peterson for Joe Thomas ( If we take Peterson first, then a very good Joe Staley is availible instead of Quinn )
These ones were the worst that I found, I know the last one won't be popular but Joe Staley is still a 4x Pro bowler so he is still a better then average OT.
I've been saying the same for years.
Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Preach it. The plan is "Fail for Cardale".
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Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
it begins and ends with replacing/acquiring the middle of the DL because of the reoccurring absence of phil taylor due to injury. then yes WR and then yes depth at OL (can't have another F'd up season because of our center going down).
QB this draft? sure if mariota falls to us at 12. if not maybe a hundley or a petty? that'd be cool with me but also think about jordan being gone at TE, our LB corp and kicking game. we could go up and down the positions and there could be arguments made that depth or upgrades could be made at easily 1/3 of the roster so there are plenty of holes to fill, which means draft picks.
it begins and ends with replacing/acquiring the middle of the DL because of the reoccurring absence of phil taylor due to injury. then yes WR and then yes depth at OL (can't have another F'd up season because of our center going down).
QB this draft? sure if mariota falls to us at 12. if not maybe a hundley or a petty? that'd be cool with me but also think about jordan being gone at TE, our LB corp and kicking game. we could go up and down the positions and there could be arguments made that depth or upgrades could be made at easily 1/3 of the roster so there are plenty of holes to fill, which means draft picks.
I think Taylor and Kitchen could hold down the NT position for a year and see how that plays out? idk the DL is an area of concern but we should be able to find some help relatively cheap... I just think at where this defense is at right now, I would focus on LB because we need that corp to be better. We have a lot of trouble setting the edge and rushing the passer, even when we blitz and that is not going to fly in a 3-4.
There are 2 later round QB's that I find quite interesting... both 6'4 and from pretty small schools... Sean Mannion(Oregon St) and Connor Holliday(Washington St)
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can we list the name of whining flippin' hookers on this board before, during and after the FA, draft?season/repeat/rinse?
OMG, we won't spend half our cap-space on oneplayer! OMG"
Mik- I reserve the right to bitch when I see something worthy to bitch about- and I see plenty of things bitch worthy right now.
Building through the draft is a fine concept......but when you draft those players who then leave right when they are hitting their prime it sort of undermines the whole concept, no?
I mean, we are losing the likes of Cameron, Sheard, Skrine, maybe some others. Guys we drafted what? No more than 5 years ago?
So....build through the draft and just when these players are starting to get good let them go elsewhere?
It is possible that it is not a function of this team wanting to build through the draft....but a function of wanting to build through THEIR drafts.....and the drafts that were conducted before they got here be damned. I guess that happens a lot. A lot of these pro personell guys and coaches are loyal to the people they have chosen, and are not loyal to people already on their team.
And so far the building through the draft....under Ray Farmer has garnered us Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in the first round....those have sucked so far, and it has gotten us some decent later rounders: Bitonio/West/Desir...maybe/Kirksey.
OK, you have 10 picks.....I expect 3-4 Pro Bowlers to come from these 10 picks.
Nailed it.
well the loss of an all-pro center and half the DL through those games might lead you to think that way but just because we're not jumping at every FA doesn't mean this team sucks.
i think we should all give these guys a chance to do their jobs.
if farmer produces like he did last year in the draft i'll be happy, if he throws up bricks and because of it the team goes 4 and 12 i'll be right here complaining along side of you. (highly doubt it tho).
Josh McCown sucks, is not an upgrade over Hoyer, Foles, or a healthy Sam Bradford.
Ahh building through the draft! We have been so good at doing that right? No.
2001- Passed on LaDainian Tomlinson for Gerard Warren
2002- Passed on Ed Reed for William Green
2004- Passed on Ben Rapistburger for Kellen WinSLOW
2005- Passed on Aaron Rodgers, DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman for Braylon "Mr.Drops" Edwards
2007- Passed Adrian Peterson for Joe Thomas ( If we take Peterson first, then a very good Joe Staley is availible instead of Quinn )
These ones were the worst that I found, I know the last one won't be popular but Joe Staley is still a 4x Pro bowler so he is still a better then average OT.
I've been saying the same for years.
Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Preach it. The plan is "Fail for Cardale".
The plan is "Fail for Cardale".
It's always been hard for me to agree with tanking a season for a player... it's kind of one thing if your season starts horrible and at the mid-point it seems the best option, then go for it! but to intentionally tank for the first pic, before the year even start? That person you will be targeting has to play a whole season still. What if he gets hurt or doesn't play up to expectation. Just too risky if you ask me.
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can we list the name of whining flippin' hookers on this board before, during and after the FA, draft?season/repeat/rinse?
OMG, we won't spend half our cap-space on oneplayer! OMG"
Mik- I reserve the right to bitch when I see something worthy to bitch about- and I see plenty of things bitch worthy right now.
Building through the draft is a fine concept......but when you draft those players who then leave right when they are hitting their prime it sort of undermines the whole concept, no?
I mean, we are losing the likes of Cameron, Sheard, Skrine, maybe some others. Guys we drafted what? No more than 5 years ago?
So....build through the draft and just when these players are starting to get good let them go elsewhere?
It is possible that it is not a function of this team wanting to build through the draft....but a function of wanting to build through THEIR drafts.....and the drafts that were conducted before they got here be damned. I guess that happens a lot. A lot of these pro personell guys and coaches are loyal to the people they have chosen, and are not loyal to people already on their team.
And so far the building through the draft....under Ray Farmer has garnered us Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel in the first round....those have sucked so far, and it has gotten us some decent later rounders: Bitonio/West/Desir...maybe/Kirksey.
OK, you have 10 picks.....I expect 3-4 Pro Bowlers to come from these 10 picks.
Nailed it.
well the loss of an all-pro center and half the DL through those games might lead you to think that way but just because we're not jumping at every FA doesn't mean this team sucks.
i think we should all give these guys a chance to do their jobs.
if farmer produces like he did last year in the draft i'll be happy, if he throws up bricks and because of it the team goes 4 and 12 i'll be right here complaining along side of you. (highly doubt it tho).
Josh McCown sucks, is not an upgrade over Hoyer, Foles, or a healthy Sam Bradford.
Ahh building through the draft! We have been so good at doing that right? No.
2001- Passed on LaDainian Tomlinson for Gerard Warren
2002- Passed on Ed Reed for William Green
2004- Passed on Ben Rapistburger for Kellen WinSLOW
2005- Passed on Aaron Rodgers, DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman for Braylon "Mr.Drops" Edwards
2007- Passed Adrian Peterson for Joe Thomas ( If we take Peterson first, then a very good Joe Staley is availible instead of Quinn )
These ones were the worst that I found, I know the last one won't be popular but Joe Staley is still a 4x Pro bowler so he is still a better then average OT.
I've been saying the same for years.
Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Preach it. The plan is "Fail for Cardale".
Mik- I reserve the right to bitch when I see something worthy to bitch about- and I see plenty of things bitch worthy right now.
Nailed it.
Josh McCown sucks, is not an upgrade over Hoyer, Foles, or a healthy Sam Bradford.
I've been saying the same for years.
Preach it. The plan is "Fail for Cardale".
mccown is not an upgrade at all, but a band aid until you get stitches. who knows what farmer has up his sleeves, but just because we're not jumping through hoops making it rain for FAs doesn't mean they're not trying.
when did you become a quitter? lol.
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Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
The way the Browns see it, they got the QB in McCown, the WR in Hartline, the RT in The Schwartz, CBs in Desir/Williams/Gilbert, and they are keeping the K we have. We have Gipson and Whitner at Safety.
But, by all means, upgrade if possible.
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The plan is "Fail for Cardale".
It's always been hard for me to agree with tanking a season for a player... it's kind of one thing if your season starts horrible and at the mid-point it seems the best option, then go for it! but to intentionally tank for the first pic, before the year even start? That person you will be targeting has to play a whole season still. What if he gets hurt or doesn't play up to expectation. Just too risky if you ask me.
It's always been hard for me to agree with tanking a season for a player... it's kind of one thing if your season starts horrible and at the mid-point it seems the best option, then go for it! but to intentionally tank for the first pic, before the year even start? That person you will be targeting has to play a whole season still. What if he gets hurt or doesn't play up to expectation. Just too risky if you ask me.
Only 1\2 serious about Cardale. Looked as good in three games as Manziel did in 1-1\2. Too small a sample size to be sure.
mccown is not an upgrade at all, but a band aid until you get stitches. who knows what farmer has up his sleeves, but just because we're not jumping through hoops making it rain for FAs doesn't mean they're not trying.
when did you become a quitter? lol.
Not a quitter Mik- just a realist. Unless Johnny Rehab gets his act together- it's going to be another long season- especially considering the talent level of the opposition.
I'm really getting tired of saying (for the past 10-15 years) X- GM has to hit this draft out of the park. And that yet once again, IMHO is exactly where we're at.
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well i doubt farmer and pettine think mccown is the long term answer, nor manziel.
they'll prob draft a QB 2nd round or get lucky and grab mariota if the opportunity arises.
it's all a guessing game at this point but as usual i'm excited as hell to see what they do in the draft.
now whether that translates to wins is another story.....
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well i doubt farmer and pettine think mccown is the long term answer, nor manziel.
they'll prob draft a QB 2nd round or get lucky and grab mariota if the opportunity arises.
it's all a guessing game at this point but as usual i'm excited as hell to see what they do in the draft.
now whether that translates to wins is another story.....
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B)I love the attitude and direction we are going in. Farmer and Pettine have got my attention and approval. The Browns are finally headed in the
right direction. The draft is the proper way to build or influx the team with talent! We need to let the draft come to us. A good example is...the drafting of
Manziel. We spend a third round draft pick to move up four spots from 26 to 22 WOW!!! If we do it correctly we wait till 26 and if JFF is not there.....he was not supposed to be there!!!!!! Take the best player either by position,need, or BPA!! The third round pick was wasted. and a third rounder is a pick we
NEED to keep use and build with!!!! We can fill in the cracks with free agents, but ONLY with play like a Brown players!!! JMHO!!
GO BROWNS!!!
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Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Until proven otherwise, I'd say we need... Starting QB, WR, RT, OLB, CB and a kicker... I think we need depth (future starters) at OL, DL, ILB, S
Is that really a "NEED" list? Or, a wishlist... To me, Schwartz, the group of Gilbert/Williams/Desir, and any of our 3 kickers currently under contract should suffice for 3 of your "starting needs"...
Plus, adding "depth" in the draft isn't really being "desperate" now is it...?
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I guess Garrett might be alright for kicker... honestly, I forgot we even had him. To me Schwartz is debatable but I think I would rather see him providing depth. Gilbert/Williams/Desir are pretty big question marks right now and i'm not so sure any of them are ready for a starting role at this time... and what happens if Haden gets hurt again? You think we will be fine fielding those three at the same time?
Too me, when you have to pick players specific to need instead of BPA, you are desperate.
But, seriously, were I making a wish list... it would be even more encompassing.
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I guess Garrett might be alright for kicker... honestly, I forgot we even had him. To me Schwartz is debatable but I think I would rather see him providing depth. Gilbert/Williams/Desir are pretty big question marks right now and i'm not so sure any of them are ready for a starting role at this time... and what happens if Haden gets hurt again? You think we will be fine fielding those three at the same time?
Too me, when you have to pick players specific to need instead of BPA, you are desperate.
But, seriously, were I making a wish list... it would be even more encompassing.
I guess Garrett might be alright for kicker... honestly, I forgot we even had him. To me Schwartz is debatable but I think I would rather see him providing depth. Gilbert/Williams/Desir are pretty big question marks right now and i'm not so sure any of them are ready for a starting role at this time... and what happens if Haden gets hurt again? You think we will be fine fielding those three at the same time?
Too me, when you have to pick players specific to need instead of BPA, you are desperate.
But, seriously, were I making a wish list... it would be even more encompassing.
K'waun and Desir sure showed up quite well when asked to start as rookies. No reason to believe they wont continue to improve their sophomore years. As for the Haden being hurt? I mean, you could use that argument with every position. What if Bito gets hurt? JT? Whitner?
Picking players is rarely straight BPA. Its usually a harmony between need and BPA. Lets be honest, its rare that a team strictly takes a player based on them being the best available regardless of need. KC was really about the only team that went straight BPA last year.
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The reason I brought up the injury thing is because unlike other positions on the d... CB's are on an island and there are 3 of them on the field for a large portion of the game.
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The reason I brought up the injury thing is because unlike other positions on the d... CB's are on an island and there are 3 of them on the field for a large portion of the game.
The reason I brought up the injury thing is because unlike other positions on the d... CB's are on an island and there are 3 of them on the field for a large portion of the game.
Ok? 5 offensive lineman are on the field at any given point. Shouldn't there be more of them for depth? Since we're playing a numbers game.
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