Betting Odds To Win AFC North
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That is all a reflection of the strength of the starting QBs for these teams.
If you take the 4 teams position by position....I suggest that the Browns and the Bengals have the best overall talent.
But the Ravens have Flacco and the Steelers have BR while the Bengals have the inconsistent Dalton...and the Browns have.....whatever...Mccown
Here and there, theRavens and Steelers may have a top in the division talented player (Antonio Brown, Bell, Yanda, Suggs)
But it IS the QBs that have the major factor on those odds.
Anyone stupid enough to disagree?
Disagree with what?
Disagree with you claiming that QB matter most? No... But I would add that you have to look at the offensive trio of QB, RB and WR and Pittsburgh's trio stands out in the AFCN.
Disagree with you discounting the weight of QB in determining the "Best Overall Talent"? Sure... I'll bite.
Disagree with what?
Disagree with you claiming that QB matter most? No... But I would add that you have to look at the offensive trio of QB, RB and WR and Pittsburgh's trio stands out in the AFCN.
Disagree with you discounting the weight of QB in determining the "Best Overall Talent"? Sure... I'll bite.
No no no....I don't discount the weight of the QB...I acknowledge that.
But by what I mean is that by all 22 positions....position by position, if the Browns have the better player at like 15 of the 22 spots, I say that they have "overall better talent".
But you are absolutely right. If one of those players is the QB....and 1 or 2 other key positions, then that great QB can and is the major difference maker that overcomes that 15-7 advantage. In fact, based on the way I analyzed things last year, the was about where the Browns stood. (but that was also "pre-injury. Injuries to the likes of Mack, Taylor etc. etc. sure took away from that talent advantage....above and beyond the QB mismatch.)
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There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
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There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
unbiased said:
There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
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There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
unbiased said:
There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
Well, overall in the past, sure, the Steelers have had better overall talent....i.e. a better player at the majority of the 22 positions.
But that was the past.
For the last couple of years I have done an AFCN position by position breakdown of each of the 22 players. And in the last couple of years, the Browns HAVE had a better player at about 15 of the 22 positions....barring injury....and barring suspensions (read: Josh Gordon)
So, my absolute contention still applies: you give us your QB, and you take ours....and I will let you keep the advantages you have at other positions (RB/WR....sans Gordon), and the Browns are the better team. Sure, it is not just BR....But, again it is primarily BR.
(I also do not want to discount the intangible factor that "the Browns have not learned how to win...or how to sustain winning. Despite having better players at more positions....barring injuries, the Browns still have not learned how to win...so there is that....but it is basically unquantifiable.)
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unbiased said:
There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
unbiased said:
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
got a six pack says the browns finish better in the division.........
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unbiased said:
There's no question the Steelers have a better qb. But that's not the only thing you're insinuating. You talk as if it's the only reason and the Browns are better everywhere else. Like I said before to you, the Steelers have been consistently better than the Browns since the 80's. Ben has only been the qb for 11 years. They've had the #1 defense in the NFL several times in recent years. They've had two different defensive POY's. They've had a HOF running back. Last year the Steelers statistically were a better defense, they had a rb with over 2000 combined yds. and a receiver with 1700. It's more than just Ben. I will not call you stupid.
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
unbiased said:
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
Well, again, if we do a unit by unit analysis of the players in each unit.....base talent wise, I would not trade your O Line for ours, I would not trade your D Line for ours, I would not trade your DB for ours. The LB corps, I would probably give the Steelers the edge....but not much. But, obviously your offensive skill players are your biggest advantage clearly.
One advantage you have had, in the past: your DC. Some Steeler fans...and I hope you are not one of them, seem to negate the impact that LeBeau had on your team. I mean, this guy is considered perhaps the greatest DC/Asst. Coach of all time....yet some of your ilk want to negate his impact. They have expressed that they think they could just plug in another guy and be just as good. Sure....just like you can plug in Bruce Gradkowski for BR, or Bubby Brister for Terry Bradshaw.
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yeah....all this agruing over ancient history is foolish....it's in the books now, let it go....
The only thing i care about is "now".....and to me, that is this season we just finished(cause thats all that is relevent now)......and this year NEITHER team won anything......
But in head to head.....which is the only true fair argument between 2 teams...we beat their ass pretty good....
Yeah...the Stools did good(against us) for the first 2 quarters....then they got their asses kicked up and down the field for the next 6 qtrs....
Wanna say you're better?.....then beat us next time we play.....but until you beat us again, we are the better team...End of discussion.
(ok...if you're truly a Steelers fan, now would be the ideal time for you to revert to telling me about the past)
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yeah....all this agruing over ancient history is foolish....it's in the books now, let it go....
The only thing i care about is "now".....and to me, that is this season we just finished(cause thats all that is relevent now)......and this year NEITHER team won anything......
But in head to head.....which is the only true fair argument between 2 teams...we beat their ass pretty good....
Yeah...the Stools did good(against us) for the first 2 quarters....then they got their asses kicked up and down the field for the next 6 qtrs....
Wanna say you're better?.....then beat us next time we play.....but until you beat us again, we are the better team...End of discussion.
(ok...if you're truly a Steelers fan, now would be the ideal time for you to revert to telling me about the past)
yeah....all this agruing over ancient history is foolish....it's in the books now, let it go....
The only thing i care about is "now".....and to me, that is this season we just finished(cause thats all that is relevent now)......and this year NEITHER team won anything......
But in head to head.....which is the only true fair argument between 2 teams...we beat their ass pretty good....
Yeah...the Stools did good(against us) for the first 2 quarters....then they got their asses kicked up and down the field for the next 6 qtrs....
Wanna say you're better?.....then beat us next time we play.....but until you beat us again, we are the better team...End of discussion.
(ok...if you're truly a Steelers fan, now would be the ideal time for you to revert to telling me about the past)
My whole analysis was about NOW....when I talked about comparing each of the 22 positions, and the various units. At least it was about last year. This coming season will have to be reviewed when all the personell are known.
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unbiased said:
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
got a six pack says the browns finish better in the division.........
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yeah....all this agruing over ancient history is foolish....it's in the books now, let it go....
The only thing i care about is "now".....and to me, that is this season we just finished(cause thats all that is relevent now)......and this year NEITHER team won anything......
But in head to head.....which is the only true fair argument between 2 teams...we beat their ass pretty good....
Yeah...the Stools did good(against us) for the first 2 quarters....then they got their asses kicked up and down the field for the next 6 qtrs....
Wanna say you're better?.....then beat us next time we play.....but until you beat us again, we are the better team...End of discussion.
(ok...if you're truly a Steelers fan, now would be the ideal time for you to revert to telling me about the past)
yeah....all this agruing over ancient history is foolish....it's in the books now, let it go....
The only thing i care about is "now".....and to me, that is this season we just finished(cause thats all that is relevent now)......and this year NEITHER team won anything......
But in head to head.....which is the only true fair argument between 2 teams...we beat their ass pretty good....
Yeah...the Stools did good(against us) for the first 2 quarters....then they got their asses kicked up and down the field for the next 6 qtrs....
Wanna say you're better?.....then beat us next time we play.....but until you beat us again, we are the better team...End of discussion.
(ok...if you're truly a Steelers fan, now would be the ideal time for you to revert to telling me about the past)
I'm smiling. That was a thorough thumping the Browns put on the Steelers last year. Absolutely. Then the Steelers went 11-5 and the Browns went 7-9. The Steelers are better. (now, this will be the time I start hearing, "but this...but that...and if this...and if our center didn't get hurt....blah blah blah.") The Steelers lost to the Jets, Bucs and Saints last year too. A who's who of contenders.
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yeah....all this agruing over ancient history is foolish....it's in the books now, let it go....
The only thing i care about is "now".....and to me, that is this season we just finished(cause thats all that is relevent now)......and this year NEITHER team won anything......
But in head to head.....which is the only true fair argument between 2 teams...we beat their ass pretty good....
Yeah...the Stools did good(against us) for the first 2 quarters....then they got their asses kicked up and down the field for the next 6 qtrs....
Wanna say you're better?.....then beat us next time we play.....but until you beat us again, we are the better team...End of discussion.
(ok...if you're truly a Steelers fan, now would be the ideal time for you to revert to telling me about the past)
My whole analysis was about NOW....when I talked about comparing each of the 22 positions, and the various units. At least it was about last year. This coming season will have to be reviewed when all the personell are known.
My whole analysis was about NOW....when I talked about comparing each of the 22 positions, and the various units. At least it was about last year. This coming season will have to be reviewed when all the personell are known.
Your analysis was about now, I know. And it was written by a Browns fan who thinks his 7-9 team is more talented than an 11-5 team. So I have to take that into consideration when evaluating it. Pretty much everyone here thinks Alex Mack is better than Pouncey. I would expect nothing less. He's a good player and important to your offense as evidenced by their decline after his injury. My observation tells me Pouncey is better and no matter how I argue it you won't agree. So I'll let you have your opinion and I'll have mine. We both think highly of our centers. They're both good. Saying one is clearly better than the other is foolish and beyond our understanding because we don't know what their responsibilities are from play to play to know how to grade them. What we do know is their absences greatly affected the performance of the offenses they play on. Ours in 2013 and yours in 2014. I look forward to your 2015 evaluation and maybe I'll be around to critique it.
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see....all I know is we kick your ass.....the rest doesnt natter.....so do go on.....
The members of this board are all glad the Browns beat the Steelers last year. I'm coming around to that understanding. It was a significant win.
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unbiased said:
The members of this board are all glad the Browns beat the Steelers last year. I'm coming around to that understanding. It was a significant win.
well you DO understand this is a BROWN's board correct?
it's not an 'unbiased' general football forum. we love the browns, plain and simple. no apologies for loving a team and being a fan. you like the steelers and great. that's why they make steeler's forums..............
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unbiased said:
And by the way, I know it sounds like I'm bragging about my team but I'm just trying to provide some perspective to back up my argument. All those things I mentioned can't all be attributed to Ben. Somebody has to block for Bell. Somebody has to keep the other team out of the endzone. It's more than just the qb. Much more than you acknowledge.
got a six pack says the browns finish better in the division.........
got a six pack says the browns finish better in the division.........
Mik you handing out free six packs?
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
unbiased said:
The members of this board are all glad the Browns beat the Steelers last year. I'm coming around to that understanding. It was a significant win.
well you DO understand this is a BROWN's board correct?
it's not an 'unbiased' general football forum. we love the browns, plain and simple. no apologies for loving a team and being a fan. you like the steelers and great. that's why they make steeler's forums..............
well you DO understand this is a BROWN's board correct?
it's not an 'unbiased' general football forum. we love the browns, plain and simple. no apologies for loving a team and being a fan. you like the steelers and great. that's why they make steeler's forums..............
I do understand. I was just being snarky about the repeated comments from various people about that one particular game. I get it. You don't have to apologize.
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Mik you handing out free six packs?
HA!! not if i can help it.
aren't you on the annual list?
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My whole analysis was about NOW....when I talked about comparing each of the 22 positions, and the various units. At least it was about last year. This coming season will have to be reviewed when all the personell are known.
Your analysis was about now, I know. And it was written by a Browns fan who thinks his 7-9 team is more talented than an 11-5 team. So I have to take that into consideration when evaluating it. Pretty much everyone here thinks Alex Mack is better than Pouncey. I would expect nothing less. He's a good player and important to your offense as evidenced by their decline after his injury. My observation tells me Pouncey is better and no matter how I argue it you won't agree. So I'll let you have your opinion and I'll have mine. We both think highly of our centers. They're both good. Saying one is clearly better than the other is foolish and beyond our understanding because we don't know what their responsibilities are from play to play to know how to grade them. What we do know is their absences greatly affected the performance of the offenses they play on. Ours in 2013 and yours in 2014. I look forward to your 2015 evaluation and maybe I'll be around to critique it.
*claps*unbiased said:
Your analysis was about now, I know. And it was written by a Browns fan who thinks his 7-9 team is more talented than an 11-5 team. So I have to take that into consideration when evaluating it. Pretty much everyone here thinks Alex Mack is better than Pouncey. I would expect nothing less. He's a good player and important to your offense as evidenced by their decline after his injury. My observation tells me Pouncey is better and no matter how I argue it you won't agree. So I'll let you have your opinion and I'll have mine. We both think highly of our centers. They're both good. Saying one is clearly better than the other is foolish and beyond our understanding because we don't know what their responsibilities are from play to play to know how to grade them. What we do know is their absences greatly affected the performance of the offenses they play on. Ours in 2013 and yours in 2014. I look forward to your 2015 evaluation and maybe I'll be around to critique it.
The board needs a less aggressive But also level headed Steeler fan. I also need help when the mob arrives with the pitchforks. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the Browns are going to be better than the Steelers this season. Our offense finished second in the league last year and will only improve with the continued maturation of Bryant. The defense has been retooling the last few drafts. Bottom line and no matter what no one here that posts regularly is going to concede the Browns finish behind the Steelers. The posters that do feel that way usually get flames off the topic. I'm all about being a diehard but I'm also a realist. The Browns are building but they aren't better.
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Ha I've won free six packs a couple times now from a couole people but have never collected. I'm good to jump in on the bet. One of my best friends runs a business out of the west end market, maybe I'll collect on my free six and let you sample one and throw in a visit to my college buddy.HA!! not if i can help it.
aren't you on the annual list?
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