Betting Odds To Win AFC North
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unbiased said:
Pretty much everyone here thinks Alex Mack is better than Pouncey. My observation tells me Pouncey is better and no matter how I argue it you won't agree.
Well, considering OL doesn't really have a nice set of stats to rely on, the most objective ratings would come from PFF....
And every single year since they have been in the league, Pff has Mack as the higher rated center.....He has gone from 11th to 9th to 4th to 1st in his 4 years.....
Pouncey, on the other hand, has scored much lower every year and has gone from 19th to 12th to 6th...
So, more than just Browns fans consider Mack to be the better center...........
FYI.....Macks 4 year cumulative score is 54 +........pounceys is 24 +......so there's that too.....
Well, considering OL doesn't really have a nice set of stats to rely on, the most objective ratings would come from PFF....
And every single year since they have been in the league, Pff has Mack as the higher rated center.....He has gone from 11th to 9th to 4th to 1st in his 4 years.....
Pouncey, on the other hand, has scored much lower every year and has gone from 19th to 12th to 6th...
So, more than just Browns fans consider Mack to be the better center...........
FYI.....Macks 4 year cumulative score is 54 +........pounceys is 24 +......so there's that too.....
Now we're cooking with peanut oil! A response that brings some meat and potatoes and no name calling and insults. Point taken, and it's valid. Pouncey's a Steeler. I think he's better. Haha.
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Sorry, you are what we call a FRAK. A FrontRunnerAssKisser.
Uh, I just explained, I've been a fan of the Steelers since I was a child. This is another example of you guys measuring dicks. I don't know why you do it or why you care. I've seen every Steeler game since I was a teenager and been to about 40 of them. I don't classify myself in any way. It simply doesn't matter. We all have the right to root for whomever we wish. It's simply a state of mind. You think yourself better because you root for a bad team for some reason. Good for you. How you classify me in your silly way matters not. I've been born and raised in a Steeler town and I've spent my share of money on them as well. I hope you feel better. Can we get on with something more interesting to talk about?
unbiased said:
This is another example of you guys measuring dicks. I don't know why you do it or why you care.
I would say it was YOU who came here to measure dicks.....remember who sought out who here......I think you walked thru the door with your lil pecker hanging out.....
so....answer me this.....why do you come here or care, if not to gain some weird unearned satisfaction from your perceived elevated perch as a Steelers fan?
I don't classify myself in any way. It simply doesn't matter.
You did classify yourself as unbiased.....which clearly isn't the case...
You think yourself better because you root for a bad team for some reason. Good for you.
Ha! Hilarious.......This from a Steelers fan who shows up at the Browns board to "chat"....
Can we get on with something more interesting to talk about?
We had plenty of good topics and the Steelers weren't even on the list...why not look back and see WHO is talking the most about fandom here.....
unbiased said:
I don't hate Browns fans. I pity some of them.
Trust me, there is no need for you to pity us.....and the arrogance oozing out of that comment makes me want to puke.....
unbiased said:
I don't think you can blame a kid for being attracted to a winning team. Or anyone for that matter. Fandom means different things to different people. You obviously take a lot of pride in sticking with an organization that has given you almost nothing to be a fan about. You wear it as a badge of honor and you take your fandomness seriously. Others are more passive about it and don't get as deep emotionally. Sports isn't as important to them. Myself, I became a Steeler fan after my Browns fan uncle took me to a Browns training camp practice when I was a kid and then to a game later that season. I had fun at the practice and met Sam Rutigliano and some of the players. I thought it was cool. Then I went to the game and couldn't believe the fans. I forget who they were playing but the people (including my uncle) were beyond embarrassing. My uncle told me to hate the Steelers and whatever his reasons were they didn't make sense. The Steelers were in the middle of their dynasty and I remember rooting for them against the Rams in the Super Bowl even though I thought the Rams helmets were cool. That was right about the time I latched on. Been a fan ever since. My uncle is still a crazy Browns fan. Cheers every first down like it's their last. And they keep disappointing him.
And here is a lot more "blah blah blah" on the topic you claim NOT to want to engage in.....why do you keep talking if you dont like the topic?
I vote you just go home......
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Sorry, you are what we call a FRAK. A FrontRunnerAssKisser.
Uh, I just explained, I've been a fan of the Steelers since I was a child. This is another example of you guys measuring dicks. I don't know why you do it or why you care. I've seen every Steeler game since I was a teenager and been to about 40 of them. I don't classify myself in any way. It simply doesn't matter. We all have the right to root for whomever we wish. It's simply a state of mind. You think yourself better because you root for a bad team for some reason. Good for you. How you classify me in your silly way matters not. I've been born and raised in a Steeler town and I've spent my share of money on them as well. I hope you feel better. Can we get on with something more interesting to talk about?
unbiased said:
Uh, I just explained, I've been a fan of the Steelers since I was a child. This is another example of you guys measuring dicks. I don't know why you do it or why you care. I've seen every Steeler game since I was a teenager and been to about 40 of them. I don't classify myself in any way. It simply doesn't matter. We all have the right to root for whomever we wish. It's simply a state of mind. You think yourself better because you root for a bad team for some reason. Good for you. How you classify me in your silly way matters not. I've been born and raised in a Steeler town and I've spent my share of money on them as well. I hope you feel better. Can we get on with something more interesting to talk about?
YOU are the one that brought up the fact that you abandoned the Celtics because they have been bad.
Why on earth would we think that you would also not abandon the Steelers in the same way. If the Steelers suffered 5 or more straight seasons of double digit losses the way the Browns have....I do think their is some question as to whether you would stick with them.
And if your dick doesn't measure up....it is because you are the one who admitted that you could come up short in that fashion.
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unbiased said:
I don't hate Browns fans. I pity some of them. Frankly I don't know how you stay so emotionally attached to an organization that doesn't seem to deserve it.
Its called Loyalty. Sounds likely that you may not be the kind of fellow a guy would want to share a bunker with.
From Andre Rison to what they did to Kosar in the end of his tenor. If I'm not mistaken, didn't they sign him to a huge contract and turn around and cut him shortly afterward? All the first round busts, all the misguided free agent signings, so on and so forth. Some of the moves were desperate and done to stay relevant to people who love to see the Browns name in the headlines, instead of actually making the team better. Who was the linebacker you guys drafted in the 90's who was a complete bust that you guys traded down in the first round for? The explanation was that there wasn't anybody worthy of the pick. Wasn't that the year you wanted that tight end out of Penn State and he was picked right before you and they didn't have a backup plan? How about the fact they turn over coaching staffs every couple years? Those things would cause me to lose interest. I used to be a Boston Celtic fan. I can't watch the NBA any more let alone the Celtics. I don't know how you guys do it. It's one thing to stick with a team through thick and thin, it's another to stick with a team that doesn't seem to return the favor to the fans who spend their hard earned money on them.
You are digging your FRAK whole even deeper. I don't know, I think this has always been the difference between a Browns fan and many Steeler fans. Browns fans are with their team through thick and thin..... many Steeler fans are with their team through thick....but not so through thin.
It's not a Browns-Steelers thing. You've gone so long with such lousy team that you're afraid to let go because you're afraid your friends will view you in some stupid way when you come back to them if they ever do get good. You've experienced consistent losing for so long that you cling to every little morsel that gives you hope that they're turning it around. You view every touchdown as a great achievement because they simply don't happen as often as some other teams. I know, I remember feeling the same way in the 80's. I remember the 51-0 game. I remember jumping out of my chair every time Bubby Brister threw a touchdown. It's because it didn't happen very often. Trust me, your perspective will change if they win a Super Bowl. It will take the edge off. The arrogance you show sometimes on this board is born from the fact you were living back when the Browns were dominant. Most people weren't. That's why you always respond to Steeler fans the way you do and are so quick to categorize them in your condescending way. You need to know not every Steeler fan is out to prove they're better than you. I just came here to have to interesting discussion and I hoped it wouldn't deteriorate. There's still hope i guess, but I'm beginning to think you guys don't tolerate anyone outside of your own. Nor do you have to. It's your board and it says "Browns" on it.
unbiased said:
It's not a Browns-Steelers thing. You've gone so long with such lousy team that you're afraid to let go because you're afraid your friends will view you in some stupid way when you come back to them if they ever do get good. You've experienced consistent losing for so long that you cling to every little morsel that gives you hope that they're turning it around. You view every touchdown as a great achievement because they simply don't happen as often as some other teams. I know, I remember feeling the same way in the 80's. I remember the 51-0 game. I remember jumping out of my chair every time Bubby Brister threw a touchdown. It's because it didn't happen very often. Trust me, your perspective will change if they win a Super Bowl. It will take the edge off. The arrogance you show sometimes on this board is born from the fact you were living back when the Browns were dominant. Most people weren't. That's why you always respond to Steeler fans the way you do and are so quick to categorize them in your condescending way. You need to know not every Steeler fan is out to prove they're better than you. I just came here to have to interesting discussion and I hoped it wouldn't deteriorate. There's still hope i guess, but I'm beginning to think you guys don't tolerate anyone outside of your own. Nor do you have to. It's your board and it says "Browns" on it.
A. I treat Steeler fans in a condescending way because....when push comes to shove...I am usually right about them. They know it, and I know it.
B. I don't see how the Browns winning a Super Bowl will increase the overall intellect of Steeler fans. They have not become any smarter by winning.
C. Factual evidence exists that when the Steelers do poorly, their fans abandon them. You talk about Bubby Brister...who played for you in the time just a few short years after the Steelers went on their SB run in the 70s. Steeler fans stayed away in droves....only 35-40 showed up for games.....not 5 years after being 4 time champs.
D. I am not sure if this is responsive to your post...but all I can say is, yes, there is a certain badge of honor about the Browns fan base continually being as supportive of them despite their terrible performance......and because we really think that the teams that are our main rivals have no where near the same loyal fan base that the Browns have.
All we are waiting for is the opportunity for those teams to prove their muster.....lets see Steeler/Ravens fans go 10-15 years without having a smell of the playoffs.....then lets see how loyal they are.
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unbiased said:
It's not a Browns-Steelers thing. You've gone so long with such lousy team that you're afraid to let go because you're afraid your friends will view you in some stupid way when you come back to them if they ever do get good. You've experienced consistent losing for so long that you cling to every little morsel that gives you hope that they're turning it around. You view every touchdown as a great achievement because they simply don't happen as often as some other teams. I know, I remember feeling the same way in the 80's. I remember the 51-0 game. I remember jumping out of my chair every time Bubby Brister threw a touchdown. It's because it didn't happen very often. Trust me, your perspective will change if they win a Super Bowl. It will take the edge off. The arrogance you show sometimes on this board is born from the fact you were living back when the Browns were dominant. Most people weren't. That's why you always respond to Steeler fans the way you do and are so quick to categorize them in your condescending way. You need to know not every Steeler fan is out to prove they're better than you. I just came here to have to interesting discussion and I hoped it wouldn't deteriorate. There's still hope i guess, but I'm beginning to think you guys don't tolerate anyone outside of your own. Nor do you have to. It's your board and it says "Browns" on it.
A. I treat Steeler fans in a condescending way because....when push comes to shove...I am usually right about them. They know it, and I know it.
B. I don't see how the Browns winning a Super Bowl will increase the overall intellect of Steeler fans. They have not become any smarter by winning.
C. Factual evidence exists that when the Steelers do poorly, their fans abandon them. You talk about Bubby Brister...who played for you in the time just a few short years after the Steelers went on their SB run in the 70s. Steeler fans stayed away in droves....only 35-40 showed up for games.....not 5 years after being 4 time champs.
D. I am not sure if this is responsive to your post...but all I can say is, yes, there is a certain badge of honor about the Browns fan base continually being as supportive of them despite their terrible performance......and because we really think that the teams that are our main rivals have no where near the same loyal fan base that the Browns have.
All we are waiting for is the opportunity for those teams to prove their muster.....lets see Steeler/Ravens fans go 10-15 years without having a smell of the playoffs.....then lets see how loyal they are.
C. Factual evidence exists that when the Steelers do poorly, their fans abandon them.
D. I am not sure if this is responsive to your post...but all I can say is, yes, there is a certain badge of honor about the Browns fan base continually being as supportive of them despite their terrible performance.....
Then there's this.....
.
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unbiased said:
Uh, I just explained, I've been a fan of the Steelers since I was a child. This is another example of you guys measuring dicks. I don't know why you do it or why you care. I've seen every Steeler game since I was a teenager and been to about 40 of them. I don't classify myself in any way. It simply doesn't matter. We all have the right to root for whomever we wish. It's simply a state of mind. You think yourself better because you root for a bad team for some reason. Good for you. How you classify me in your silly way matters not. I've been born and raised in a Steeler town and I've spent my share of money on them as well. I hope you feel better. Can we get on with something more interesting to talk about?
YOU are the one that brought up the fact that you abandoned the Celtics because they have been bad.
Why on earth would we think that you would also not abandon the Steelers in the same way. If the Steelers suffered 5 or more straight seasons of double digit losses the way the Browns have....I do think their is some question as to whether you would stick with them.
And if your dick doesn't measure up....it is because you are the one who admitted that you could come up short in that fashion.
YOU are the one that brought up the fact that you abandoned the Celtics because they have been bad.
Why on earth would we think that you would also not abandon the Steelers in the same way. If the Steelers suffered 5 or more straight seasons of double digit losses the way the Browns have....I do think their is some question as to whether you would stick with them.
And if your dick doesn't measure up....it is because you are the one who admitted that you could come up short in that fashion.
I'm a Steeler fan. You're a Browns fan. I like the Steelers for my own personal reasons. You like the Browns for your own personal reasons. I've suffered 5 or more straight seasons of mediocrity. But thats all it was. The dysfunction of your team goes beyond that and you know it. I read your own fans on this very board all the time talk about it. it's not a reflection of the fans or a personal attack on any of you.
I failed at keeping this civil so I think it's time for me to move on. You guys were great. Very cordial. It was fun. Take care.
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
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YOU are the one that brought up the fact that you abandoned the Celtics because they have been bad.
Why on earth would we think that you would also not abandon the Steelers in the same way. If the Steelers suffered 5 or more straight seasons of double digit losses the way the Browns have....I do think their is some question as to whether you would stick with them.
And if your dick doesn't measure up....it is because you are the one who admitted that you could come up short in that fashion.
I'm a Steeler fan. You're a Browns fan. I like the Steelers for my own personal reasons. You like the Browns for your own personal reasons. I've suffered 5 or more straight seasons of mediocrity. But thats all it was. The dysfunction of your team goes beyond that and you know it. I read your own fans on this very board all the time talk about it. it's not a reflection of the fans or a personal attack on any of you.
I failed at keeping this civil so I think it's time for me to move on. You guys were great. Very cordial. It was fun. Take care.
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
unbiased said:
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
Fuck off and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
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YOU are the one that brought up the fact that you abandoned the Celtics because they have been bad.
Why on earth would we think that you would also not abandon the Steelers in the same way. If the Steelers suffered 5 or more straight seasons of double digit losses the way the Browns have....I do think their is some question as to whether you would stick with them.
And if your dick doesn't measure up....it is because you are the one who admitted that you could come up short in that fashion.
I'm a Steeler fan. You're a Browns fan. I like the Steelers for my own personal reasons. You like the Browns for your own personal reasons. I've suffered 5 or more straight seasons of mediocrity. But thats all it was. The dysfunction of your team goes beyond that and you know it. I read your own fans on this very board all the time talk about it. it's not a reflection of the fans or a personal attack on any of you.
I failed at keeping this civil so I think it's time for me to move on. You guys were great. Very cordial. It was fun. Take care.
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
unbiased said:
I failed at keeping this civil so I think it's time for me to move on. You guys were great. Very cordial. It was fun. Take care.
you too! drive safe! have a nice day! hey, grab a cookie on the way out.
unbiased said:
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
i guess the cordialness ran out 3 secs after you typed it. shows what a two-faced spineless person you really are.
they got a name for people like you: jellyfish.
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not all fans are created equal.
i really despise bandwagon fans from any team. half the people i know in NY are either steeler fans or cowboy fans. you talk to them, figure out their age and ask them "so how does a person, who's born and raised in NY become a cowboy fan?" their usual reply after fumbling around a bit: "well i like troy aikman" or "my dad bought me an emmit smith jersey" eyc. etc.
bullshit. you were a kid when they were winning super bowls and you attached yourself to them because they were winning, plain and simple. bandwagon bitches.
I don't think you can blame a kid for being attracted to a winning team. Or anyone for that matter. Fandom means different things to different people. You obviously take a lot of pride in sticking with an organization that has given you almost nothing to be a fan about. You wear it as a badge of honor and you take your fandomness seriously. Others are more passive about it and don't get as deep emotionally. Sports isn't as important to them. Myself, I became a Steeler fan after my Browns fan uncle took me to a Browns training camp practice when I was a kid and then to a game later that season. I had fun at the practice and met Sam Rutigliano and some of the players. I thought it was cool. Then I went to the game and couldn't believe the fans. I forget who they were playing but the people (including my uncle) were beyond embarrassing. My uncle told me to hate the Steelers and whatever his reasons were they didn't make sense. The Steelers were in the middle of their dynasty and I remember rooting for them against the Rams in the Super Bowl even though I thought the Rams helmets were cool. That was right about the time I latched on. Been a fan ever since. My uncle is still a crazy Browns fan. Cheers every first down like it's their last. And they keep disappointing him.
unbiased said:
I don't think you can blame a kid for being attracted to a winning team. Or anyone for that matter. The Steelers were in the middle of their dynasty and I remember rooting for them against the Rams in the Super Bowl even though I thought the Rams helmets were cool. That was right about the time I latched on. Been a fan ever since.
Things are obviously a lot different for people outside my family. I didn't give one shit if the Browns were good or bad. I was gonna cheer my ass off no matter what.
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The Browns are last because on offense they lack any proven talent, that isn't in the twilight of their career, outside of the offensive line.
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Lol wtf happened in here? I haven't read it all but I see things took a turn. Unbiased if YOU are still around I read here for the "beat" of the Browns and enjoy a few of the posters. I also cut my teeth on a message board unrelated to sports that is easily one of the most troll heavy places on the internet outside of maybe 4chan so anything the mongo contingent here throws my way is very, very mild in comparison. If I unloaded like I want to with some here I would get banned. I use this place to fit a need. Browns news. I'm not here to make friends even though I'm civil/friendly with several. A lot of idiots post here to the detriment of good posting browns fans.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Is that all you got? Not a very creative insulter, are you. If I were to insult you I would at least be more colorful about it.
And maybe use alliteration.
You are a mosey, mewling, meandering, moronic muse.
And since you are on vacation, not here to defend yourself.
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Unbiased, I for one don't mind the Steelers. I know I should as a Browns fan but my best friend just finished up his career at Pitt and I've been up there twice. Last time I got to see your boys beat the piss out of the Colts. It was fun.
From an organizational standpoint, I don't mind the Steelers. Go back and take a head count of all the ownerships that opposed the Browns being taken out of Cleveland by he-who-shall not be named. You'll find the Rooneys on that very short list. This was, for quite the longest time, one of - if not the best rivalry in the NFL. We knew that, they did as well and both our fanbases suffered when the Browns were gone. I believe the Rooney's even set up area's for Browns fans to visit Pittsburgh and attend games, if I"m correct?
Our two teams are companion pieces in time. While I do envy their success, I will always question the massive steroid rumors hanging over the heads of that team from the 70's and early 80's.
I do however despise their fans... Can't stand them. I look forward to the day Ben has that sharp decline in production and they return to the pit of mediocrity from whence they came.
Even better if a contender arose from Cleveland simultaneously.
Steroid use was common in the NFL starting in the 1960s. Every team used steroids. An endocrinologist friend told me in 1972 that atheletes liked to get synthetic testosterone if they could.They were not banned by the NFL until 1987 and the league did not fine or suspend players until 1989. Pgh had not won anything for a good while by that point.Our two teams are companion pieces in time. While I do envy their success, I will always question the massive steroid rumors hanging over the heads of that team from the 70's and early 80's.
The Steelers surely used roids during the 1970s but it was both common and legal throughout the league. And to suggest that the Browns and other teams did not use them as well would be naive.
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I enjoy Gippers trivia threads.
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YOU are the one that brought up the fact that you abandoned the Celtics because they have been bad.
Why on earth would we think that you would also not abandon the Steelers in the same way. If the Steelers suffered 5 or more straight seasons of double digit losses the way the Browns have....I do think their is some question as to whether you would stick with them.
And if your dick doesn't measure up....it is because you are the one who admitted that you could come up short in that fashion.
I'm a Steeler fan. You're a Browns fan. I like the Steelers for my own personal reasons. You like the Browns for your own personal reasons. I've suffered 5 or more straight seasons of mediocrity. But thats all it was. The dysfunction of your team goes beyond that and you know it. I read your own fans on this very board all the time talk about it. it's not a reflection of the fans or a personal attack on any of you.
I failed at keeping this civil so I think it's time for me to move on. You guys were great. Very cordial. It was fun. Take care.
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
I'm a Steeler fan. You're a Browns fan. I like the Steelers for my own personal reasons. You like the Browns for your own personal reasons. I've suffered 5 or more straight seasons of mediocrity. But thats all it was. The dysfunction of your team goes beyond that and you know it. I read your own fans on this very board all the time talk about it. it's not a reflection of the fans or a personal attack on any of you.
I failed at keeping this civil so I think it's time for me to move on. You guys were great. Very cordial. It was fun. Take care.
Vag, if you read this good luck. I don't know how you do it. These guys are insufferable and classless. The inferiority complex of some of the people on this board is stunning. They are quite unable to carry on a civil debate. You all should be proud.
Typical Steeler fan.....if the going gets tough....you get going.
You are a Steeler fan because you are fucking FRAK.
If you think we are insufferable and classless it is because you are right.....we don't suffer or tolerate the ignorance and stupidity of the FRAK Steeler fans like you that come on here. We have no problem if you fail at keeping things civil.
But, so, since apparently you couldn't handle the heat you got out of the kitchen.
And I don't know if some here have an inferiority complex....I don't see it. Quite the opposite. Browns fans....and those on here in particular are SUPERIOR football fans. We don't run away from our team the way guys like you do.
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Lol wtf happened in here? I haven't read it all but I see things took a turn. Unbiased if YOU are still around I read here for the "beat" of the Browns and enjoy a few of the posters. I also cut my teeth on a message board unrelated to sports that is easily one of the most troll heavy places on the internet outside of maybe 4chan so anything the mongo contingent here throws my way is very, very mild in comparison. If I unloaded like I want to with some here I would get banned. I use this place to fit a need. Browns news. I'm not here to make friends even though I'm civil/friendly with several. A lot of idiots post here to the detriment of good posting browns fans.
Lol wtf happened in here? I haven't read it all but I see things took a turn. Unbiased if YOU are still around I read here for the "beat" of the Browns and enjoy a few of the posters. I also cut my teeth on a message board unrelated to sports that is easily one of the most troll heavy places on the internet outside of maybe 4chan so anything the mongo contingent here throws my way is very, very mild in comparison. If I unloaded like I want to with some here I would get banned. I use this place to fit a need. Browns news. I'm not here to make friends even though I'm civil/friendly with several. A lot of idiots post here to the detriment of good posting browns fans.
For what its worth Vag.....I don't think you are a FRAK.
And yes, that is a compliment. So many of your other brethren....so called Steeler fans, are FRAKS.
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Is that all you got? Not a very creative insulter, are you. If I were to insult you I would at least be more colorful about it.
And maybe use alliteration.
You are a mosey, mewling, meandering, moronic muse.
And since you are on vacation, not here to defend yourself.
You are a mosey, mewling, meandering, moronic muse.
And since you are on vacation, not here to defend yourself.
But, like The Terminator I always come back.....by the way, define "mosey".
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