Grayson Works Out For Browns
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I believe he's implying he doesn't feel the top tier QB's are franchise changers. In which I'm inclined to agree.
Exactly, assuming you mean in this draft class. Winston being the exception IMO but of course if 11 other teams pass on him, the smart play is probably just doing the same.
Is Grayson "top tier"? I ask, because this was not a thread about JW or MM...
So long as you do not have a franchise QB on the roster you have to be willing to spend a Day 2 pick on a prospect with a good chance of developing to starter level. I don't think Grayson or Hundley qualify, but I think Petty does. Good chance would lie somewhere in the 1 in 3 to 1 in 5 range.
Day 3 prospects with #2 potential and low chance of starter have to be considered. Low chance ~ 1 in 10...
UDFAs? Cast a net...
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Because you can either take a likely unsuccessful QB or a defender or OL that's likely to be a solid starter in 1-3 years.
Because you can either take a likely unsuccessful QB or a defender or OL that's likely to be a solid starter in 1-3 years.
So because QB is the hardest position to project, stay away?
It's riskier to draft a QB, but the reward of hitting on one is higher than any other position. You cannot consider the risk without considering the reward.
Some pistol, some twin spits, 5 wide and at times under center with a single back.
And there it is... Pro Style = Takes Snaps Under Center
Grayson reminds me of Manning, and not in a good way.
He's 23(?) and he already looks as athletic as a 40-year old with neck issues. I like what goes on in Grayson's head, but athletically he leaves something to be desired.
Then your priorities on what matters when selecting a QB are backwards. If whats between his ears looks good, his athletic ability is a far distant 2nd place issue.
Only after an athletic threshold is surpassed. Athletically Grayson looks very borderline to me.
So, my solution is...fuck mock drafts. Fuck Mel Kiper and fuck Todd McShay. Fuck Walter Football.
So long as you exempt The Browns Board Mock...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Because you can either take a likely unsuccessful QB or a defender or OL that's likely to be a solid starter in 1-3 years.
So because QB is the hardest position to project, stay away?
It's riskier to draft a QB, but the reward of hitting on one is higher than any other position. You cannot consider the risk without considering the reward.
Some pistol, some twin spits, 5 wide and at times under center with a single back.
And there it is... Pro Style = Takes Snaps Under Center
Grayson reminds me of Manning, and not in a good way.
He's 23(?) and he already looks as athletic as a 40-year old with neck issues. I like what goes on in Grayson's head, but athletically he leaves something to be desired.
Then your priorities on what matters when selecting a QB are backwards. If whats between his ears looks good, his athletic ability is a far distant 2nd place issue.
Only after an athletic threshold is surpassed. Athletically Grayson looks very borderline to me.
So, my solution is...fuck mock drafts. Fuck Mel Kiper and fuck Todd McShay. Fuck Walter Football.
So long as you exempt The Browns Board Mock...
So because QB is the hardest position to project, stay away?
It's riskier to draft a QB, but the reward of hitting on one is higher than any other position. You cannot consider the risk without considering the reward.
And there it is... Pro Style = Takes Snaps Under Center
Only after an athletic threshold is surpassed. Athletically Grayson looks very borderline to me.
So long as you exempt The Browns Board Mock...
I guess I consider a pro style offense to be under center at least 35-40% of your snaps. Colorado State sure doesn't look like they're anywhere near that margin. However Grayson, unlike most other QB this draft save for Winston, actually has some experience under center.
Most great QB's in today's game are limited athletes. I'm trying to think of elite passers that are elite scramblers and only Rodgers and Luck come to mind.
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Peyton and Brady are so athletic.... more than Grayson?
Like Marino and Stabler were athletic?
Joe Namath with the decripit knees?
I think not. By that standard, you wouldn't have Sipe or Kosar as your qb's.
A lot of qb's can have athletic talent, and an arm...but it's the qb brain and heart
that is a lot tougher to find.
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This whole 'athletic QB' thing is a recent manifestation that really hasn't proven out.....
It's fairly established that QB's with just a brain and an arm can succeed at a high level......and the ability to run has been just an extra bonus...
but, now, it's all the rage. Except these "amazing physical specimens" really haven't done or won enough to establish that "legs" are more important than "arms & brains".....or even needed to succeed....
Ill take a Brady, Manning, Marino type over a Newton, Manziel or Vick everyday of the week.....(and, especially, on Sundays)
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Grayson would just be a waste. Either draft Mariota or stick with Manziel for one more year. No point taking Petty, Hundley, Grayson, etc. Since they all have question marks, like Manziel, but do not possess his upside.
Grayson would just be a waste. Either draft Mariota or stick with Manziel for one more year. No point taking Petty, Hundley, Grayson, etc. Since they all have question marks, like Manziel, but do not possess his upside.
I dont really get this.....but would say they all have upside......and, if taken later in the draft, would have greater upside than someone like JFF taken in the first......
Who doesn't have question marks?....they all do.....every year......
Guess all those teams who selected QB's with question marks were dumb when they picked Wilson, Brady, Montana, etc
Bottom line.....you gotta keep swinging till you get a hit........
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My point was for Grayson, Hundley, and Petty it would be a waste of a 2nd or 3rd Rounder. They bring nothing to the table (talent-wise) that is any different than Manziel at this point. Also two of them are older.
If we swing this year it better be for Mariota and no one else
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That's physically. But the work ethic and head screwed on straight, Grayson and Petty have that, and
have that bigtime. We don't know how well JM can read pro defenses. We don't know how well Petty can do that
in the pros...as well as others. Winston is a mental case, nobody knows if he can change, "grow up" and be
the guy who inspires kids and fans alike, or ends up in prison.
Take Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf, for example. Leaf was a runner up for the Heisman. Strong thrower.
Peyton had his character, heart, and work ethic and football IQ, and leaf was a mental case who partied all night
and yawned at his press conference. Leaf was said to be arrogant, etc. So has Winston been called arrogant.
Scouts debated which one would be the best bet. For me, it would have been Peyton because of his character,
work ethic, love for the game. It's a very interesting read:
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My point was for Grayson, Hundley, and Petty it would be a waste of a 2nd or 3rd Rounder. They bring nothing to the table (talent-wise) that is any different than Manziel at this point. Also two of them are older.
If we swing this year it better be for Mariota and no one else
My point was for Grayson, Hundley, and Petty it would be a waste of a 2nd or 3rd Rounder. They bring nothing to the table (talent-wise) that is any different than Manziel at this point. Also two of them are older.
If we swing this year it better be for Mariota and no one else
Well, we all have our opinions......and I disagree with yours completely.....
I think Petty and Grayson have a LOT of tools that JFF doesn't have(including the maturity that comes with age)....in fact, JFF really doesn't have most of the standard tools you look for.....size, football accumen, maturity, etc......while some of these other guys do....
so, JFF has to overcome his size, obvious head issues, learn how to play under center, grow up and mature, all while learning NFL style play....
while these other guys basically just have to overcome a lack of experience and learn the game at an NFL level......
JFF may have more upside.......but only because he is so freaking low right now
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Last season when everything else was in place and working well together we won games with Brian Hoyer at quarterback. So what does Brian Hoyer do better than Josh McCown? In which areas is he a superior player? If it's nothing why couldn't that same success happen again?
If McCown is the opening day starter.
WSS
Can't argue with that.
In Chicago WITH a good running game - McCown was a very pleasant surprise and well liked by the fans. His critics like to over-emphasize the Tampa experience; BUT his running game ranked about 31st for a good portion of the year. I think our offense and running game in particular is built more like Chicago's was - only I like our oline way better.
Can't argue with that.
In Chicago WITH a good running game - McCown was a very pleasant surprise and well liked by the fans. His critics like to over-emphasize the Tampa experience; BUT his running game ranked about 31st for a good portion of the year. I think our offense and running game in particular is built more like Chicago's was - only I like our oline way better.
Especially with Andrus Peat.
(or however its spelled)
WSS
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Peyton and Brady are so athletic.... more than Grayson?
Like Marino and Stabler were athletic?
Joe Namath with the decripit knees?
I think not. By that standard, you wouldn't have Sipe or Kosar as your qb's.
A lot of qb's can have athletic talent, and an arm...but it's the qb brain and heart
that is a lot tougher to find.
Again, there is a threshold for QB athleticism.
Peyton and Brady are so athletic.... more than Grayson?
Brady? Yes... he was not athletic coming out of college, but developed athleticism as a pro.
Peyton? No, but are you seriously comparing Grayson's head to Peyton's?
Like Marino and Stabler were athletic?
Marino? Yes, he was. What he was not was a runner. Folks forget how big Dan was. Early on Dan was Ben-like.
Stabler? Yup, him, too. College Ken ran for nearly 400 yards his Jr year at BAMA. Pro Ken played in an era when training was optional.
Joe Namath with the decripit knees?
No, but college Joe could run... until the first knee. But there was always that arm and that release.
I think not. By that standard, you wouldn't have Sipe or Kosar as your qb's.
Sipe? Yes... Brian moved well
Kosar? No. While I love Bernie as much as anyone, we all know his lack of mobility was a liability. And if you objectively look at the stats he left behind him, it shows.
A lot of qb's can have athletic talent, and an arm...but it's the qb brain and heart
that is a lot tougher to find.
Totally agree... especially with the brain part, but that does not mean that those two alone can succeed without the athletic talent which includes the arm.
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This whole 'athletic QB' thing is a recent manifestation that really hasn't proven out.....
It's fairly established that QB's with just a brain and an arm can succeed at a high level......and the ability to run has been just an extra bonus...
but, now, it's all the rage. Except these "amazing physical specimens" really haven't done or won enough to establish that "legs" are more important than "arms & brains".....or even needed to succeed....
Ill take a Brady, Manning, Marino type over a Newton, Manziel or Vick everyday of the week.....(and, especially, on Sundays)
Ill take a Brady, Manning, Marino type over a Newton, Manziel or Vick everyday of the week.....(and, especially, on Sundays)
Yeah, but that's not what I am saying... and I'm not that sure about Marino's "head", but set that aside for now.
Again, I'm talking physical threshold. Of the three heads you list, only the Manning of today falls short, but Peyton's head is so far beyond any other QB that he has still had success. That said, I think it is undeniable that that call is now is now getting closer every year. Surely he fall below the threshold before dementia sets in...
Rather than Vick & Co. the other side of the argument I am making is better rep'd by the Staffords and Hoyers and Fitzpatricks. All have great heads and solid skillsets that just do not overcome their physical limitations.
I dont really get this.....but would say they all have upside......and, if taken later in the draft, would have greater upside than someone like JFF taken in the first......
Bottom line.....you gotta keep swinging till you get a hit........
Totally agree with the closing. Would only tweek the opening by saying the potential value is greater in succeeding rounds because the expenditure is lower. Also while the odds of realizing that value are longer, if realized, then the value was greater.
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My point was for Grayson, Hundley, and Petty it would be a waste of a 2nd or 3rd Rounder. They bring nothing to the table (talent-wise) that is any different than Manziel at this point. Also two of them are older.
If we swing this year it better be for Mariota and no one else
My point was for Grayson, Hundley, and Petty it would be a waste of a 2nd or 3rd Rounder. They bring nothing to the table (talent-wise) that is any different than Manziel at this point. Also two of them are older.
If we swing this year it better be for Mariota and no one else
they can all see over the offensive line. can't say the same about manziel.
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Peyton? No, but are you seriously comparing Grayson's head to Peyton's? Tour
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Of course not. I simply was talking about Peyton's physical athleticism. I think I'd only compare
Peyton's brains with Kosar's in football quarterbacking.
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My point was for Grayson, Hundley, and Petty it would be a waste of a 2nd or 3rd Rounder. They bring nothing to the table (talent-wise) that is any different than Manziel at this point. Also two of them are older.
If we swing this year it better be for Mariota and no one else
they can all see over the offensive line. can't say the same about manziel.
they can all see over the offensive line. can't say the same about manziel.
Yeah Drew Brees and Russell Wilson can't see over their lines either. What ever will they do?! At least be rational in your hate for Johnny.
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GOD, how old IS David Grayson?
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GOD, how old IS David Grayson?
GOD, how old IS David Grayson?
i heard he's putting in for his social security.
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Yeah Drew Brees and Russell Wilson can't see over their lines either. What ever will they do?! At least be rational in your hate for Johnny.
i don't hate manziel or anyone really (except isis). i kinda dislike him for not taking his first year as an nfl rookie seriously enough. and i also disliked the horde of media that surrounded everything he or hoyer did, essentialy putting pressure on the FO and coaches tostart him when they should've known better.
and then there were the johhny boy queefs. don't get me started on that.
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Well when criticizing him, make sure it's about something that actually makes sense.
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