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If DA keeps doing this we're never going to go in the.....

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  • I think what we are seeing is exactly why the Browns haven't given up on him. He keeps flashing the crazy skills teams don't throw away.

    Sure, it can't go on like that forever, but right now, DA is at the pro level where a sophomore is on the college level.

    That isn't to suggest we hang in with ups and downs for 2 more years after this, but at least in the Browns view, now isn't the time to give up....and frankly, I agree.

    Right now, here is the Browns biggest fear, and it should be yours as well.

    They are afraid to dump DA, then he moves on and plays on a consistent basis, what he shows in flashes here, somewhere else and Quinn never lives up to the hype. That would blow up this franchise to dump the wrong guy.

    They have to be 100% on DA before they can move to Quinn, because once the move is made, there is no going back.

    If Quinn has what it takes, he will still have that in 3 games or another years worth of games. If he doesn't, well, then it doesn't really matter does it??

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
  • They are afraid to dump DA, then he moves on and plays on a consistent basis, what he shows in flashes here, somewhere else and Quinn never lives up to the hype. That would blow up this franchise to dump the wrong guy.

    They have to be 100% on DA before they can move to Quinn, because once the move is made, there is no going back.

    I understand your point. Reverse things, however, and shouldn't the staff be just as petrified about Quinn going somewhere and being a stud?

    Point is, how the hell will we ever know what Quinn is until he plays? At this point, we have a TON of evidence as to what DA is: a once-rattled-goes-downhill, inconsistent, inaccurate, poor decision maker who, at times, suppresses all those things and plays brilliantly. Any reason to think that isn't going to change? Any reason to think that sticking with DA at this point is a bet in and of itself (that he'll someday suppress enough of bad-DA to be championship caliber?)?

  • I commented on this on the old board. We are facing teams that alternate from good pass defense to poor pass defense for the next several weeks. What it is basically going to do is continue to give DA a break every other week in which he can play well enough to justify keeping him in...and it will probably keep us technically in the running for the playoffs until about 3 weeks left in the season. That is when we MIGHT see BQ...I don't anticipate it before then.

  • I understand your point. Reverse things, however, and shouldn't the staff be just as petrified about Quinn going somewhere and being a stud?

    They do.....but they don't have to worry about that for another year.

    With DA's contract structure, they have to make a determination this year. I doubt they want to pay him the 5 mil roster bonus due in March(or whenever it is scheduled) if he isn't going to be the starting QB.

    That is the difference in the situation.

    And the negatives are somewhat different if DA ends up playing well and Quinn moves on and plays better on another team. Negatives no doubt, but if we are winning with DA, it won't be nearly as bad as it could be due to the way things worked out with DA needing to be signed last year.

    We couldn't just let him go for the reasons I mentioned. We couldn't sign him to a contract you can live with for a back-up.

    Right now, Brady has the contract that fits that of a back-up...so we have some time taking this course.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • I didn't comment on this directly, though I touched on it indirectly....i will expound.

    Point is, how the hell will we ever know what Quinn is until he plays?

    We don't need to know at this point.

    As I said, if we go to Quinn, it is for good. We are pressed for time with DA. We have to find out for sure, once and for all, this season.

    If Quinn comes in and sucks after we get rid of Anderson...well, lets not even go down that road...it looks dark and bumpy. icon_eek.gif

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • \ said:

    I commented on this on the old board. We are facing teams that alternate from good pass defense to poor pass defense for the next several weeks. What it is basically going to do is continue to give DA a break every other week in which he can play well enough to justify keeping him in...and it will probably keep us technically in the running for the playoffs until about 3 weeks left in the season. That is when we MIGHT see BQ...I don't anticipate it before then.

    Good point. As long as we're mathematically in the playoff hunt, we'll see DA every week. And with Pitts upcoming schedule we could see DA for the balance of the year. I see Pitt stumbling badly in the next few weeks. The team that's beginning to look very scary in the division is Balt.. We'll soon see if Flacco is the real deal or another schitzo Rat QB.

  • I personally think that Savage beleives that DA will redeem himself this year and bring up his own trade value. I cant see what else they could be plotting unless they really are clueless when it comes to which one they want icon_cry.gif

  • I agree as well. At that point, the decision on DA will be made, and we move on to Quinn.

    It isn't like if we play BQ and he comes in and has a good game that makes him a lock to be a solid NFL qb...just as if he flops means he will suck for life.

    Playing him and him doing well doesn't tell us a thing about DA...and really, that is what we are trying to figure out at this point.

    It isn't about who is better. It is about how good is one of them. If it isn't good enough, then we go through the process with the next guy.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • \ said:

    Pluto said it bluntly: As of today, they wouldn't pay the bonus.

    Here's another blunt one for BQ Nation: If BQ was the "QB of the future", he wouldn't be riding the pine halfway through his 2nd year.

    And as far as the bonus goes, you of all people should know that the size of the bonus pales in comparison to the size of the guarantees in his contract, negating any reason to dump him based on the bonus.

  • \ said:

    I personally think that Savage beleives that DA will redeem himself this year and bring up his own trade value. I cant see what else they could be plotting unless they really are clueless when it comes to which one they want icon_cry.gif

    The idea that the Browns only want DA to play well is to increase his trade value is clearly a wet dream from BQ Nation.

    The more wins Anderson puts up, the less likely it is that he will move anywhere, and the more likely it is that BQ asks for a trade.

  • \ said:

    \ said:

    Pluto said it bluntly: As of today, they wouldn't pay the bonus.

    Here's another blunt one for BQ Nation: If BQ was the "QB of the future", he wouldn't be riding the pine halfway through his 2nd year.

    And as far as the bonus goes, you of all people should know that the size of the bonus pales in comparison to the size of the guarantees in his contract, negating any reason to dump him based on the bonus.

    I love it when you refer to an individual as a member of the BQ nation. What does that make you? The President of the DA man-love association? What's even more hilarious is the fact you think DA is so dreamy because he was born in Oregon, your home state and not because he's a talented QB. Indeed, statistically he's one of the worst QB's in the league having led us to a losing record as we approach the halfway point. Given your logic, if Bin Laden was born in Oregon you'd probably be fighting for the Taliban.

  • \ said:

    \ said:

    I personally think that Savage beleives that DA will redeem himself this year and bring up his own trade value. I cant see what else they could be plotting unless they really are clueless when it comes to which one they want icon_cry.gif

    The idea that the Browns only want DA to play well is to increase his trade value is clearly a wet dream from BQ Nation.

    The more wins Anderson puts up, the less likely it is that he will move anywhere, and the more likely it is that BQ asks for a trade.

    Actually, I agree with part of this. I think that it is somewhat silly to think that the ONLY reason they continue to play DA is to increase his trade value.

    The fact is they want to see if he can turn it around. They want to know EXACTLY what they have in him. Is he an average QB? Is he a diamond in the rough? Is he a one year wonder?

    I also don't necessarily believe that one or the other is DEFINITELY GONE after this season. Quinn has a couple more years on his contract...and although he might start getting pissy about it if he stays on the bench...he could be retained at his current contract into next year. Next year is the drop dead point on this conversation...not this year.

    I disagree, however, with the WINS comment. I liken it to what happened with Dilfer and Grossman. Football people are more than capable of telling when a team is winning IN SPITE of the QB play. DA is going to have to start playing CONSISTENTLY WELL if he is going to keep the starter position. As I have stated before, he has NEVER had two consecutive weeks with a QBR over 80. Until/unless he does that...his tenure will always be in question.

    Still, I can see several scenarios where BOTH these QB's are in Cleveland next year....and the one that seems most likely is we win enough to make the playoffs behind DA but he is underwhelming...but due to the wins and playoff appearance he warrants continued examination.

  • Interesting points Ballpeen.

    I guess what all this boils down to is that the Browns feel DA has a high enough probability for improvement to warrant the continued investment. In other words, they must feel that the odds are favorable that DA will soon banish bad-DA to a twice a year event versus every other game.

    I don't share that optimism.

    So, the fact that we're still, in effect, INVESTING in DA's potential versus reaping the rewards of a fourth year QB is tough to swallow. When do you cut the cord?

    The answer many theorize is at the end of this year. Well, fast forward and pretend that by year end DA is still 50 percent Jekyl/Hyde. We're now entering an offseason with two QB's: one due a $5m roster bonus who has proven not to be the answer and the other a completely unproven QB who saw limited action in late December.

    Ouch.

  • Grey...I don't know if I share it either, but taking in to account all else I have pointed out, it is the best way to go.

    That way we can go with DA with full feeling he is our guy, or we go with BQ and never look back.

    I honestly don't think BQ would give us a better chance at winning right now based on him being a rookie(playing time) and the fact all of the problem we have experienced can't be pinned on the qb.....no doubt some....but I can't imagine we would be sitting at 5-2...or even 4-3 if Brady played....but I concede we will never know.

    Brady gets his shot when there is absolutely zero shat at the play-offs in some fashion....and that is about 3 losses away.

    We can use him and one of our picks to move up....we can trade picks before the bonus has to be paid.

    Surely Anderson and our 3rd can get us in to the 2nd round. That is worst case IMO...maybe DA and our 4th gets us a 2nd rounder.

    Or...Anderson and the team win about 7 more...and then we do it again next year.....keeping Quinn....or....just trade him.

    From a money standpoint we don't have to, though at that point I would imagine Quinn would be a little ticked and ask for a trade...couldn't say I would blame him if he did.

    If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

  • I know I am going to reciever flak for this.

    Since we got healthy in the last 4 games we are 3-1 against quality opponents

    DA has an average of 87.37 qb rating in the last 4 games

    comp ratio is 53.57

    avg yds per game is 207.5

    average yds per pass is 7.32

    5 tds to 1 int

    no interceptions in his last 100 + passing attempts

    That is not progress toward a positive degree? This is also coupled with our team that has the MOST drops in the NFL and our number one reciever leading the pack.

    I said it last week that we are still in the playoff hunt and I still believe it now. I think DA has problems but he seems to be coming along now that we are healthy and have some normal quality recievers for him to throw to.

    The other ALL important statistic is giving Jamal the ball 20 times EVERY game, I think we are like 10-1 when he touches the ball 20 times a game. The first 3 games he never got to that number and that puts too much pressure on our passing game.

    If we make a playoff run we will trade Bq there is a very low chance that you take a 2 year starter that leads a team to a 10 win season one year and a playoff hunt the next and give the reigns to an unproven rookie.

  • \ said:

    We are stuck in a weird quarterback limbo. Anderson's stats over the last 12 games are pretty horrendous, but he's the starter and we're in the race and coming off a win. Tough to pull him at this point.

    The bigger question is will the Browns pay the five mill bonus and essentially commit to another year of Anderson as the starter if he ends up 8-8 with a 73-ish passer rating?

    I think not.

    I think they will. What we are seeing is Savage's ego; if Anderson finishes with a 70's QB rating, he will be retained. I've said it before - Savage is in love with the idea of being the guy to find the next Tom Brady.

    If we see Quinn on the field this season, it is because Anderson was injured. Even if we blow someone out, he will not play for fear of a QB controversy; I'd be willing to be we see KD on the field in those instances.

    That's when we'll know we're with Anderson for better or worse.

  • \ said:

    no interceptions in his last 100 passing attempts

    Actually, no picks in the last 106 attempts.

  • \ said:

    I know I am going to reciever flak for this.

    Since we got healthy in the last 4 games we are 3-1 against quality opponents

    DA has an average of 87.37 qb rating in the last 4 games

    comp ratio is 53.57

    avg yds per game is 207.5

    average yds per pass is 7.32

    5 tds to 1 int

    no interceptions in his last 100 passing attempts

    That is not progress toward a positive degree? This is also coupled with our team that has the MOST drops in the NFL and our number one reciever leading the pack.

    I said it last week that we are still in the playoff hunt and I still believe it now. I think DA has problems but he seems to be coming along now that we are healthy and have some normal quality recievers for him to throw to.

    The other ALL important statistic is giving Jamal the ball 20 times EVERY game, I think we are like 10-1 when he touches the ball 20 times a game. The first 3 games he never got to that number and that puts too much pressure on our passing game.

    If we make a playoff run we will trade Bq there is a very low chance that you take a 2 year starter that leads a team to a 10 win season one year and a playoff hunt the next and give the reigns to an unproven rookie.

    What 3 quality teams have we defeated over the last 4 games? I only count 1 quality team (the Giants) and one .500 team that was supposed to be good but has been as disappointing as we have (JAX).

    The Bengals are NOT a quality team. They are a sucky team with talent, that's it.

    We have a loss to a team that tried everything they could to give us the win.

    Anderson's QB rating has been ALL OVER the place in those games. I don't call 63 one week, 120 the next, and 57 following that, and whatever yesterday's rating was 'improvement' in the true sense. I guess you could considering that the first 3 weeks he was bad enough that he couldn't get worse. When you are at the bottom there is nowhere to go but up.

    He's also had a couple of picks nullified by penalties or outright dropped, which shows he is still making the same mistakes.

  • Like I said, we make the playoffs with DA having about a 75-85 QBR...we will keep BOTH!

    DA will have done what he needed to do to keep his job...but will not have elevated to the point the Browns will be TOTALLY sold on him...and BQ will still be under a VERY cost-effective contract.

    This team can and will protect the status quo until DA either proves himself to BE the guy, or NOT BE the guy in the judgement of the staff. Right now, he is proving he COULD BE the guy...which will keep this going for another year.

    However, if we MISS the playoffs with DA below an 80...I think he will be moved.

    If we MAKE the playoffs and DA is above 85...I would not be surprised to see BQ go.

  • \ said:

    \ said:

    \ said:

    We are stuck in a weird quarterback limbo. Anderson's stats over the last 12 games are pretty horrendous, but he's the starter and we're in the race and coming off a win. Tough to pull him at this point.

    The bigger question is will the Browns pay the five mill bonus and essentially commit to another year of Anderson as the starter if he ends up 8-8 with a 73-ish passer rating?

    I think not.

    I think they will. What we are seeing is Savage's ego; if Anderson finishes with a 70's QB rating, he will be retained. I've said it before - Savage is in love with the idea of being the guy to find the next Tom Brady.

    If we see Quinn on the field this season, it is because Anderson was injured. Even if we blow someone out, he will not play for fear of a QB controversy; I'd be willing to be we see KD on the field in those instances.

    That's when we'll know we're with Anderson for better or worse.

    See this is where the Savage haters lose me totally.

    Let's see. Savage Drafted Charlie Frye, with hopes he could be the next great Browns QB. When that was finally proven incorrect, He Drafted Brady Quinn to be the face of this organization, to be the next great QB of the Browns.

    Then only by a miracle does DA catch lightning in a bottle and make getting rid of him almost impossible. So He did the only thing he could, shopped DA in the offseason, but once he couldn't get enough value, re-signed him to basically a one year "prove-it" contract.

    Or he could have tendered him and really had a 'prove it' year at a lot less money. But he got scared someone would take the tender and send DA to BAL.

    Given what I've seen of DA, given how crappy the BAL line is, and given what an animal Rogers is, I would have been HAPPY to see DA throwing the ball behind the BAL line while we got an extra 1st and 3rd pick.

    I'm not a complete Savage hater, but he has done some questionable things; his handling of Winslow this week and this QB 'situation' that has developed are the most recent examples. Reaching for Charlie Frye in the 3rd round is another.

    Yeah, I guess I'm not convinced that he has it figured out. You're free to blindly put your faith in him, if you want.

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