DA deserves a shot in training camp. At the very least...
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Zombo said:
...argument that he blows and Quinn is the unquestioned answer...Zombo
I'm not buying this argument either Z, but I do believe DA had his chance and Quinn hasn't.
When Frye and Anderson were in competition, neither had enough NFL experience to know. A competition made a lot of sense. So, if there's a competition this off season, then fine, but DA ought to start with 2 strikes against him and it should be darn close to Quinn's job to lose. If Quinn looks like crap, then start DA. This should be the rule of any starter on the team. But, if it's at all close, DA's track record holds him back which should push Quinn to number one.
It does concern me if the QB's have a competition without considering track records. From today's PD:
Hey, Tony: How does our coach not see that Brady Quinn is better than Derek Anderson? And I think they need to trade D.A. and get a draft pick or a D-back. -- Christopher Cutshall, Canton.
Hey, Christopher: I've said it before: Anderson's arm is intoxicating to most coaches. Watching tape, the sight of his beautiful spirals piercing the Lake Erie winds is mesmerizing. Most coaches believe they can coach a player to "manage" a game, but they can't coach arm strength. In Quinn's games, they probably see a dink-
and-dunker. He hasn't had the time to show more.
I don't agree with Christopher about Quinn being better (unknown), but when DA wears the yellow practice jersey, I'd put his meduim and deep routes up against anybody. Hopefully his track record keeps the staff from blindly falling in love with his arm. It just shouldn't be forgotten he was the Browns' worst offensive player in 07' and '08. The stats are the stats.
I'm still thinking this is all smoke screen. There is zero benefit to Mangini naming a starter. NFL Total Access said yesterday there should be a competition. All good as it increases DA's value - which I still contend is at its '09 peak.
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The thing about coaches is they don't really care so much about the stats....especially new coaches on new teams.
As Grossi said....they see a skill set that can't be taught and figure they might need to give it a shot with Anderson....at least see in person.
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Maybe not, but they do care about turnovers and game tape. Same impression I'd think.
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I can't fathom going into this season with both these guys on the roster and then judging the starter based on camp, practice and pre season games. We'll be splitting the reps with the ones, causing dissension and division among the players and fans and basically having the QB's as the headliners all year long, which leads to more dumbing down of a fan base. We've had enough of that here: between Couch/Holcomb, Dildofer/Frye, Frye/DA and DA/Queen I've heard enough inane conversation between news print and sports talk to last me two more lifetimes.
Honestly, this is the time of year when people, either involuntarily or not, seem to forget what they've seen with their own eyes. Perhaps some of us should go back and watch some film to remind ourselves. It should not even be necessary to bring up stats anymore. How about the play last year against Washington when Heiden was wide open on a perfectly designed 4th down play but DA couldn't get the ball to him off his back foot?
I just don't get it, he is what he is folks, which is a big armed guy with no pocket presence or command of an offense. He's horribly inaccurate and doesn't know how to keep the chains moving. It's done, kaput, been rehashed a million times, but now it's an annual thing of selective memory and hope, just like with Edwards and his ability to start catching passes.
Meanwhile, we have a promising QB that we gave up a first and second for waiting to take the reins and run with it as the starter. He deserves the same treatment as the Serial Drive Killer, which means going into the season as the unquestioned starter who gets all the reps with the first team so he can develop. This is what DA had last year, which was after a disappointing second half of 2007 that reminded us all who the real DA is. DA had close to 30 starts, Queen had one on two days prep where he lit it up and then got hurt. Tell me how it's possible to not give this guy the reins?
I've been saying this over and over like Flugs, but the point has to be made. Even if DA were to win the job based on mostly practice, what the hell does this prove? We already know what he is, and in practice QB's aren't getting hit and making plays. There aren't a whole lot of QB's in this league that are going to look even steven standing next to him in a practice situation, probably not more than 5. However, there are probably about 35 QB's in the league I'd rather have behind center when it counts. Another thing, I'm not at all convinced DA would be a good backup, it's just the opposite. He is a notoriously slow starter that takes awhile to find the mark. If he were to come into a game due to ineffectiveness or injury, you can't count on this guy to do anything but throw airballs. He throws the ball without reading the field and always has, it's what gave him temporary success before everybody caught on.
I knew Phillip was making a mistake committing to this guy but held out hope. All last year did was reconfirm what I already knew, yet now we're going through this all again. He's not competing with Don Strock for the gig, it's Queen.
What's really the most confounding out of all this is how badly we need his pick and what we can do with it. We've already lost a ton of value by committing to him and kept Queen from progressing, and now we're going to sit back and let a possible 2nd or 3rd go so he can compete? That 2nd could be the starting SS we need now that Jones is gone. I just can't imagine this regime doesn't know all this and realize this draft is perfect for second rounders that we so desperately need. This has gotta be posturing, there is no way these guys want QB division starting off the new regime, and there is no way they could choose Dexter Anderson over Queen based on prior performance.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
I can't fathom going into this season with both these guys on the roster and then judging the starter based on camp, practice and pre season games. We'll be splitting the reps with the ones, causing dissension and division among the players and fans and basically having the QB's as the headliners all year long, which leads to more dumbing down of a fan base. We've had enough of that here: between Couch/Holcomb, Dildofer/Frye, Frye/DA and DA/Queen I've heard enough inane conversation between news print and sports talk to last me two more lifetimes.
Honestly, this is the time of year when people, either involuntarily or not, seem to forget what they've seen with their own eyes. Perhaps some of us should go back and watch some film to remind ourselves. It should not even be necessary to bring up stats anymore. How about the play last year against Washington when Heiden was wide open on a perfectly designed 4th down play but DA couldn't get the ball to him off his back foot?
I just don't get it, he is what he is folks, which is a big armed guy with no pocket presence or command of an offense. He's horribly inaccurate and doesn't know how to keep the chains moving. It's done, kaput, been rehashed a million times, but now it's an annual thing of selective memory and hope, just like with Edwards and his ability to start catching passes.
Meanwhile, we have a promising QB that we gave up a first and second for waiting to take the reins and run with it as the starter. He deserves the same treatment as the Serial Drive Killer, which means going into the season as the unquestioned starter who gets all the reps with the first team so he can develop. This is what DA had last year, which was after a disappointing second half of 2007 that reminded us all who the real DA is. DA had close to 30 starts, Queen had one on two days prep where he lit it up and then got hurt. Tell me how it's possible to not give this guy the reins?
I've been saying this over and over like Flugs, but the point has to be made. Even if DA were to win the job based on mostly practice, what the hell does this prove? We already know what he is, and in practice QB's aren't getting hit and making plays. There aren't a whole lot of QB's in this league that are going to look even steven standing next to him in a practice situation, probably not more than 5. However, there are probably about 35 QB's in the league I'd rather have behind center when it counts. Another thing, I'm not at all convinced DA would be a good backup, it's just the opposite. He is a notoriously slow starter that takes awhile to find the mark. If he were to come into a game due to ineffectiveness or injury, you can't count on this guy to do anything but throw airballs. He throws the ball without reading the field and always has, it's what gave him temporary success before everybody caught on.
I knew Phillip was making a mistake committing to this guy but held out hope. All last year did was reconfirm what I already knew, yet now we're going through this all again. He's not competing with Don Strock for the gig, it's Queen.
What's really the most confounding out of all this is how badly we need his pick and what we can do with it. We've already lost a ton of value by committing to him and kept Queen from progressing, and now we're going to sit back and let a possible 2nd or 3rd go so he can compete? That 2nd could be the starting SS we need now that Jones is gone. I just can't imagine this regime doesn't know all this and realize this draft is perfect for second rounders that we so desperately need. This has gotta be posturing, there is no way these guys want QB division starting off the new regime, and there is no way they could choose Dexter Anderson over Queen based on prior performance.
Meanwhile, we have a promising QB that we gave up a first and second for waiting to take the reins and run with it as the starter.
He got that chance and was so ineffective he was benched by his 3rd game.
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I'm so tired of every year not knowing, who the QB, the most important player on offence, is.
Personnally I would put Quinn as my starter. The only thing that hert him was the game that he played with an injured hand.
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@inspecta said:
Seriously dude, did DA play well enough in the first Balt game that any competent coach wouldn't of benched him?Anderson had 2 W's over Baltimore on his resume, including a come from behind overtime win at M&T.
Quinn had a preseason stinker at Detroilet as his only career starting experience.
Only a BQ Fag has trouble seeing the logic there.
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@inspecta said:
Seriously dude, did DA play well enough in the first Balt game that any competent coach wouldn't of benched him?I don't understand how one person can be so biased towards one player.
YOu have no football acumen whatsoever.
Dude is a tool; could actually be Boat Shoes himself....Boat Shoes will not be with OUR Browns this season and we will not have to put up with this nonsense
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@inspecta said:
Seriously dude, did DA play well enough in the first Balt game that any competent coach wouldn't of benched him?Anderson had 2 W's over Baltimore on his resume, including a come from behind overtime win at M&T.
Quinn had a preseason stinker at Detroilet as his only career starting experience.
Only a BQ Fag has trouble seeing the logic there.
Anderson had 2 W's over Baltimore on his resume, including a come from behind overtime win at M&T.
Quinn had a preseason stinker at Detroilet as his only career starting experience.
Only a BQ Fag has trouble seeing the logic there.
So you do not want to see what Quinn can do over the same amount of games DA was given? Interesting. Says a lot about your fear of Quinn and your lack of faith in DA. You truly know how to embrace the suckage, I will give you that.
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Lummy Dummy is the kind of guy I can visualize sitting in a cubicle jacking off to thumbnail pics of his lover DA...This moron wouldve been canned from this board long ago had I had My way to do so...Why we have to put up with this senseless jerk is beyond Me...Even if you ignore him you see ppls responses to him...We need to quit feeding him the bait and move on with our ownn football loving lives....
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He got that chance and was so ineffective he was benched by his 3rd game.
Hahaha
C'mon everyone, lets all pay attention to Lumbergh!! Lets all laugh at him and call him ignorant!!! Lets call him an Asshole!!
Thats exactly why he says shit like this, to get a reaction out of everyone. Dont even respond to shit like this.
The real question we should be asking ourselves is this...
Since we dont really know what were going to get from DA (2007 or 2008?) we must ask ourselves, what is worth more a second round pick this year or Derek Anderson in 2007 with 29 Touchdown passes with a 10-6 record that diddnt get us into the playoffs?
If Lum is right, then we get the DA of 2007. Inconsistent, but pretty solid. If the rest of the nation is correct we get the Derek Anderson somewhere in between 2007-2008 which is not good enough.
We can either take the risk of getting one of those two ^
Or we can get a second rounder...
Which on of the three is the most valuable to you? Is the risk worth it? Think about it.
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Zombo said:
Well, I'm not buying into this. For one thing, we totally blew in 06 with the same cast of receivers, so obviously any QB wasn't going to succeed with all that "ridiculous talent" ... Charlie Frye didn't. And yes, I know Charlie Frye sucked ... but my point is ... Anderson doesn't.Secondly, I'm not buying that defenses "didn't know his arm strength" at first, and then caught on. There are a lot of very smart people in the NFL who are paid a lot of money to scout the players your team faces. Anderson played in the PAC 10, three seasons of preseason games and four starts in 06 ... they knew his arm strength.
He had to think through the first half of 07 just as he did the second half. To me this is an example of the anti-DA bias on this board ... assumptions are made about to him to fit the argument that he blows and Quinn is the unquestioned answer.
I think Anderson actually is pretty good at reading blitzes, but gets fooled with coverages. He has a low percentage of getting sacked and a quick release, but he doesn't always recognize coverage schemes, which hurts him against the really smart defenses like Steelers, Ravens, Pats ... but then again, who excels against these defenses? And reading coverages is something that can be taught you don't give up on a 25 year old with a cannon and a quick release because he is still having problems with coverages.
Here's what frustrates me about Anderson: his inconsistency on short routes. He misses too many easy ones. That's why I give the edge to Quinn, especially in what I expect Daboli's system to be.
Otherwise I find some of the anti-DA stuff doesn't have real merit and I just think the kid is a real commodity that we don't want to jettison off too easily.
We haven't had a strong, consistent QB since Kosar was healthy in the late 80's. Teams like the Bears and the Lions seemingly NEVER find a franchise QB. We COULD be sitting on two of them. I'm just saying ... let's be smart about it.
Zombo
Has DA ever played any other sports in college? Just curious. You think if he played basketball that maybe he would know to to take a little something off those short passes. I would meake DA shoot 200 free throws everyday then we'll see how good his short game does!
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Zombo said:
Here's what frustrates me about Anderson: his inconsistency on short routes. He misses too many easy ones.
Zombo
This is the most important quote in the entire thread, IMO.
Anderson has great potential. We all saw it in 07. That Bengals game was one of the most exciting I've seen in a long time.
.... However, the man cannot hit the broad side of a barn with a football if he were standing 2 feet in front of it. I always like how people call his arm a cannon. See, when I think of cannon, I think of the old smooth bore guns that had massive power behind them but no rifling to guarantee accuracy. Its fits all too well.
Look, I can't tell you how many times I sunk in my chair with a bout of absolute despair whenever I saw Anderson miss an easy one. It was a source of a lot of frustration for me. I cannot forgive that. The team cannot forgive that either. And although Mankok werent here to see it, you all can be sure they will take it into consideration.
This is why Quinn gets first shot. I see potential in that boy. He's a smart player, and has a good command of the players. I like his skill set (or what little we've seen of it). DA had plenty of chances to show us what he can do. Even when he was good in 07 he missed a lot of easy passes.... Its not that I hate him... but I did hate what he did. Maybe he will just continue to get better.... maybe he's suck at 08 DA... who knows? There's too many unknowns about him at this point.
I'd hate to say it, but unless a miracle happens and Anderson learns how to hit a moving target, ship him off. I'll tip my hat and say thanks for the memories... both good and bad.
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Zombo said:
Well, I'm not buying into this. For one thing, we totally blew in 06 with the same cast of receivers, so obviously any QB wasn't going to succeed with all that "ridiculous talent" ... Charlie Frye didn't. And yes, I know Charlie Frye sucked ... but my point is ... Anderson doesn't.Secondly, I'm not buying that defenses "didn't know his arm strength" at first, and then caught on. There are a lot of very smart people in the NFL who are paid a lot of money to scout the players your team faces. Anderson played in the PAC 10, three seasons of preseason games and four starts in 06 ... they knew his arm strength.
He had to think through the first half of 07 just as he did the second half. To me this is an example of the anti-DA bias on this board ... assumptions are made about to him to fit the argument that he blows and Quinn is the unquestioned answer.
I think Anderson actually is pretty good at reading blitzes, but gets fooled with coverages. He has a low percentage of getting sacked and a quick release, but he doesn't always recognize coverage schemes, which hurts him against the really smart defenses like Steelers, Ravens, Pats ... but then again, who excels against these defenses? And reading coverages is something that can be taught you don't give up on a 25 year old with a cannon and a quick release because he is still having problems with coverages.
Here's what frustrates me about Anderson: his inconsistency on short routes. He misses too many easy ones. That's why I give the edge to Quinn, especially in what I expect Daboli's system to be.
Otherwise I find some of the anti-DA stuff doesn't have real merit and I just think the kid is a real commodity that we don't want to jettison off too easily.
We haven't had a strong, consistent QB since Kosar was healthy in the late 80's. Teams like the Bears and the Lions seemingly NEVER find a franchise QB. We COULD be sitting on two of them. I'm just saying ... let's be smart about it.
Zombo
Has DA ever played any other sports in college? Just curious. You think if he played basketball that maybe he would know to to take a little something off those short passes. I would meake DA shoot 200 free throws everyday then we'll see how good his short game does!
John McClane said:
Has DA ever played any other sports in college? Just curious. You think if he played basketball that maybe he would know to to take a little something off those short passes. I would meake DA shoot 200 free throws everyday then we'll see how good his short game does!Just out of curiosity, how many other NFL quarterbacks were 2 sport athletes in college?
By the way, DA was basketball player of the year at his level his senior year for the state of Oregon.... Ran hurdles in track too.
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John McClane said:
Has DA ever played any other sports in college? Just curious. You think if he played basketball that maybe he would know to to take a little something off those short passes. I would meake DA shoot 200 free throws everyday then we'll see how good his short game does!Just out of curiosity, how many other NFL quarterbacks were 2 sport athletes in college?
By the way, DA was basketball player of the year at his level his senior year for the state of Oregon.... Ran hurdles in track too.
By the way, DA was basketball player of the year at his level his senior year for the state of Oregon.....
Yes, we know. Lummy has regaled us with many tawdry tales of self-pleasure while watching Derek dunk a basketball.
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John McClane said:
Has DA ever played any other sports in college? Just curious. You think if he played basketball that maybe he would know to to take a little something off those short passes. I would meake DA shoot 200 free throws everyday then we'll see how good his short game does!Just out of curiosity, how many other NFL quarterbacks were 2 sport athletes in college?
By the way, DA was basketball player of the year at his level his senior year for the state of Oregon.... Ran hurdles in track too.
Just out of curiosity, how many other NFL quarterbacks were 2 sport athletes in college?
By the way, DA was basketball player of the year at his level his senior year for the state of Oregon.... Ran hurdles in track too.
Wow really?
I guess the "shooters touch" eludes DA 
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@inspecta said:
If he is indeed the Serial Drive Killer, then there's no way I'd want him QBing my team for another second.But he's not. He's been posting during games, slobbering over DA and how the receiver should of ran the right route, or caught that 100mph fastball on the screen pass.
I actually think Lumbag is Sewage: Sewage is Lumbag.
The contract he gave Drive Assassin can only be explained by the beating ole Philly Shoe Shine (Lumberg) took on this board.
Translation:
DA's $5 mil roster bonus is our fault.
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This thread very clearly ties in with the thread started by Inspecta stating he hates Romeo Crenell. The very reason this debate still goes on is cos Crenell did not give BQ enough starts for us to convince us that he is the real deal. As far as we know BQ, Harrison are still unproven players who show promising signs.
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He got that chance and was so ineffective he was benched by his 3rd game.
Just returned from New York and the word is now that Mangini & Co. are not impressed with what they saw of Brady Quinn, they see him as more of a dink and dunker at QB and that Mangini will go with Anderson at QB this season has the Browns attempt to trade Brady Quinn on draft day.
Also don't be shocked if the Browns select a QB with that #5 pick as its said Mangini would like to have his own franchise QB to his liking and if Curry is gone at #5 the Browns could shock everyone and take a Stafford or Sanchez and have them sit for a year behind Anderson.
The Browns are in total rebuilt this year and they are stocking draft picks to make there run in 2010 with Manginis's own players
One rumored trade was Brady Quinn for D'Brickshaw Ferguson who would play RT for the Browns, the other was a 2nd round pick thru a 3rd team for Quinn
Brady Quinn is being shopped more than Anderson and the Jets, Lions, Bears and Tampa Bay have all shown interest
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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