David Bowens
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@shepwrite said:
Bowens looks like a lock. I'm guessing Barton will be next. Those three will create some draft flexibility.That would take the pressure off the Browns to pick for needs/musts and let them go after the best players available in round two. They would be able to look at RB, WR and Center. But they still have a must fill in the SS position.
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John McClane said:
who would the best SS be available in the second? Chung?William Moore, Patrick Chung, Nic Harris and I like Chip Vaughn who could be ther in the 3rd round. All are physical SS that hit like we wish Jones could of. All need some work in coverage, but the number one thing you look for in a SS is a guy who can provide run support. A guy who could come up and thump someone.
The only iffy one to me would be Harris, the others I would take and be very happy. Every player in the draft has some negatives and it is up to the coaches to coach them up. These guys have that "I'm gonna bury you" mentality. Chung reminds me of a Bob Sanders.
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Nic Harris looked good playing linebacker at the Senior Bowl and ran a 4.84 40 at the Combine; I doubt teams are still looking at him as a safety.
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whats the word on david bowens? did he sign yet?
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Nic Harris looked good playing linebacker at the Senior Bowl and ran a 4.84 40 at the Combine; I doubt teams are still looking at him as a safety.
Aloysius said:
Nic Harris looked good playing linebacker at the Senior Bowl and ran a 4.84 40 at the Combine; I doubt teams are still looking at him as a safety.As i said, he would be the only one of the top rated SSs that I would stay away from. I know you think Moore is a better LB prospect then a SS prospect, but you are pretty much alone on that one. Most love his quickness, speed and size. He has decent coverage skills and at this point as a rookie coming into camp he is a big upgrade over Jones.
Hits harder, covers better and is healthier. Also will be about 1/3 of the cost.
I also like Chung and think Chip Vaughn will start to climb up a lot of teams boards.
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If you're going to claim I'm alone on something, you might as well accurately report what I said, which was that scouts at the Senior Bowl were talking about Moore converting to linebacker.
Clearly, he's done enough at the Combine and his pro day to convince people he should stick at safety, but that doesn't mean he's going to be an effective cover guy - I still have concerns about that.
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If you're going to claim I'm alone on something, you might as well accurately report what I said, which was that scouts at the Senior Bowl were talking about Moore converting to linebacker.
Clearly, he's done enough at the Combine and his pro day to convince people he should stick at safety, but that doesn't mean he's going to be an effective cover guy - I still have concerns about that.
Aloysius said:
If you're going to claim I'm alone on something, you might as well accurately report what I said, which was that scouts at the Senior Bowl were talking about Moore converting to linebacker.Clearly, he's done enough at the Combine and his pro day to convince people he should stick at safety, but that doesn't mean he's going to be an effective cover guy - I still have concerns about that.
Please reread the comment. It says that "you are pretty much alone on that", meaning just what you said that most at the combine and his pro day say he is a very effective SS and is rated the top SS in the draft. I never heard of anyone saying he would make a better LB except you.
I make a honest statement to an opinion you posted and it was not belittling or abusive so don't get all pissy because someone challenged one of your opinions. Sorry, you don't get to corner the market on opinions and I would hope you admit you aren't a sole authority.
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Sole authority? lol.
I love debating this stuff with people, but I don't appreciate it when someone claims I said something that I don't think I ever said. Sure, I relayed the news that scouts at the Senior Bowl were talking about him converting to linebacker, but I never said he couldn't play safety. From what I remember, the strongest thing I said was that he wouldn't be playing FS at the next level. If you're able to provide a link to a post in which I say that Moore couldn't play SS, that'd be different. Otherwise, I'm not going to let you tell me I'm out on an island saying something that I never said.
As for everyone having him rated as the #1 SS, nfldraftscout has him behind Patrick Chung. Scott Wright has him ranked as the #2 safety behind Louis Delmas. Despite a poor senior season and Senior Bowl, he probably is one of the top 3-4 safeties in this class, which is a testament to how weak the safety class is this year.
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back to the topic at hand...
Barring an 11th-hour change of heart, linebacker David Bowens is expected to sign with the Cleveland Browns in the coming days, according to a person with knowledge of Bowens' thinking. That person spoke on the condition of anonymity because he's not authorized to speak for Bowens.
via here.
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Sole authority? lol.
I love debating this stuff with people, but I don't appreciate it when someone claims I said something that I don't think I ever said. Sure, I relayed the news that scouts at the Senior Bowl were talking about him converting to linebacker, but I never said he couldn't play safety. From what I remember, the strongest thing I said was that he wouldn't be playing FS at the next level. If you're able to provide a link to a post in which I say that Moore couldn't play SS, that'd be different. Otherwise, I'm not going to let you tell me I'm out on an island saying something that I never said.
As for everyone having him rated as the #1 SS, nfldraftscout has him behind Patrick Chung. Scott Wright has him ranked as the #2 safety behind Louis Delmas. Despite a poor senior season and Senior Bowl, he probably is one of the top 3-4 safeties in this class, which is a testament to how weak the safety class is this year.
Aloysius said:
Sole authority? lol.I love debating this stuff with people, but I don't appreciate it when someone claims I said something that I don't think I ever said. Sure, I relayed the news that scouts at the Senior Bowl were talking about him converting to linebacker, but I never said he couldn't play safety. From what I remember, the strongest thing I said was that he wouldn't be playing FS at the next level. If you're able to provide a link to a post in which I say that Moore couldn't play SS, that'd be different. Otherwise, I'm not going to let you tell me I'm out on an island saying something that I never said.
As for everyone having him rated as the #1 SS, nfldraftscout has him behind Patrick Chung. Scott Wright has him ranked as the #2 safety behind Louis Delmas. Despite a poor senior season and Senior Bowl, he probably is one of the top 3-4 safeties in this class, which is a testament to how weak the safety class is this year.
Don't really care to get into a pissing match but among the posts where you diss him is one in the "New LB Coach" thread March 6th @ 6:19 PM, Post # 16. That's after you reported on another thread that he did well at the combine. Now, that's it on the subject for me, I don't wish to go around and around with some he said, he said BS. Let's move on. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and you have a lot of great post with great information in them. You are a great contributor to the forum.
We'll see how our new LB coach feels about him as a SS since he coached him.
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No need to get into pissing matches, but there's a point to be made here. Yes, Moore had a solid Combine and pro day, but that doesn't mean we should ignore what he did last year and at the Senior Bowl. So if I quote an article about Moore's pro day, then say later in the thread that he had a poor Senior Bowl, that's not me dissing him - it's me saying, "Yes, this is a positive, but I still worry about the negatives." I even brought up the possibility that Moore played poorly due to injuries, which is something Moore completely denied when asked about it at the Senior Bowl.
And all of that - looking at a prospect from every angle, with a critical eye - doesn't amount to me saying Moore's a linebacker.
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back to the topic at hand...
Barring an 11th-hour change of heart, linebacker David Bowens is expected to sign with the Cleveland Browns in the coming days, according to a person with knowledge of Bowens' thinking. That person spoke on the condition of anonymity because he's not authorized to speak for Bowens.
via here.
mz. said:
back to the topic at hand...Barring an 11th-hour change of heart, linebacker David Bowens is expected to sign with the Cleveland Browns in the coming days, according to a person with knowledge of Bowens' thinking. That person spoke on the condition of anonymity because he's not authorized to speak for Bowens.
via here.
Rotoworld's snarky comment on the article was kinda funny:
At 32, Bowens is on the downswing as a backup and special teams player. He reportedly "loves" playing for Eric Mangini, which puts him in select company.
I wonder about Mosley/Bowens/Barton wanting to sign with the Browns. The enthusiasm for playing under Mangini definitely is a positive, but I wonder how much of it is a function of Cleveland being the place they're most likely to get starting consideration. For Mosley, Cleveland may have been the only place he could compete to start. And for Barton, Mangini may be the only coach who'll pretty much guarantee him a starting gig.
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@shepwrite said:
I think Mosley would have gotten some love around the league. He's young, quick, and versatile.I don't disagree; I just think he probably would be seen by other teams as more of a wave player, whereas Mangini might see him as a starting option at RE, especially if Robaire doesn't come back 100% from the Achilles injury.
It's interesting that Mosley only signed a two year deal. If he proves to be a capable starter for us, he'll be in a position to be a 27 year old quality 3-4 DE heading into free agency in 2011. If that happens, he'll really get some love from other teams.
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I can't see us benefiting from picking up the scraps that couldn't even help the poor Jets D last season. It's even funnier that everyone around here accepts bringing in ManKok's old players as if they are some special talent. I'd rather have anyone else in the FA market.
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mz. said:
back to the topic at hand...Barring an 11th-hour change of heart, linebacker David Bowens is expected to sign with the Cleveland Browns in the coming days, according to a person with knowledge of Bowens' thinking. That person spoke on the condition of anonymity because he's not authorized to speak for Bowens.
via here.
Rotoworld's snarky comment on the article was kinda funny:
At 32, Bowens is on the downswing as a backup and special teams player. He reportedly "loves" playing for Eric Mangini, which puts him in select company.
I wonder about Mosley/Bowens/Barton wanting to sign with the Browns. The enthusiasm for playing under Mangini definitely is a positive, but I wonder how much of it is a function of Cleveland being the place they're most likely to get starting consideration. For Mosley, Cleveland may have been the only place he could compete to start. And for Barton, Mangini may be the only coach who'll pretty much guarantee him a starting gig.
Aloysius said:
via here.[/color]Rotoworld's snarky comment on the article was kinda funny:
I wonder about Mosley/Bowens/Barton wanting to sign with the Browns. The enthusiasm for playing under Mangini definitely is a positive, but I wonder how much of it is a function of Cleveland being the place they're most likely to get starting consideration. For Mosley, Cleveland may have been the only place he could compete to start. And for Barton, Mangini may be the only coach who'll pretty much guarantee him a starting gig.
Only Barton out of that group has a chance of being a starter. The others are brought in as backups and role players. The Pats and other winning teams believe that team players who know their roles are valuable pieces. Bowens was special teams captain in NY and a backup LB. The ultimate team player that will do anything you ask. He's a real hard nose player on the field. Mosley will be in the rotation at DE, Robaire Smith, Mosley, Williams and Leonard. Saun Smith will be on the roster until they are sure that Robaire Smith is healthy or until they find another backup DE/NT.
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@ ytown: i'm the guy who's been saying that moore can't play safety in the league because of his coverage issues and that he'll have to be a cover 2 WLB.
but that's something i firmly believe after seeing him play two late-season games and in the senior bowl. whether because of injury or lack of ability, moore can't cover whatsoever, which is a severe deficiency that he won't overcome if he stays at safety.
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I can't see us benefiting from picking up the scraps that couldn't even help the poor Jets D last season. It's even funnier that everyone around here accepts bringing in ManKok's old players as if they are some special talent. I'd rather have anyone else in the FA market.
Chickenwang said:
I can't see us benefiting from picking up the scraps that couldn't even help the poor Jets D last season. It's even funnier that everyone around here accepts bringing in ManKok's old players as if they are some special talent. I'd rather have anyone else in the FA market.Really? You would rather have someone come in that doesn't fit a 3-4 scheme or hasn't played in it? Well we have already tried that it was called the last four years of jamming a round peg into a square hole. I know these guys aren't all world but they have played in this scheme and are high charcter players. Which is what we have lacked for the last 10 years outside of Cribbs.
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@ ytown: i'm the guy who's been saying that moore can't play safety in the league because of his coverage issues and that he'll have to be a cover 2 WLB.
but that's something i firmly believe after seeing him play two late-season games and in the senior bowl. whether because of injury or lack of ability, moore can't cover whatsoever, which is a severe deficiency that he won't overcome if he stays at safety.
@ ytown: i'm the guy who's been saying that moore can't play safety in the league because of his coverage issues and that he'll have to be a cover 2 WLB.
but that's something i firmly believe after seeing him play two late-season games and in the senior bowl. whether because of injury or lack of ability, moore can't cover whatsoever, which is a severe deficiency that he won't overcome if he stays at safety.
We'll see what our new LB coach thinks since he coached him in college. After watching Jones the last two years, Moore looks like a shut down corner compared to him. Since we will be playing a lot of cover 2 he should be fine. But, that's why the draft is such a crap shoot. I actually like Chung better but Moore is a beast against the run.
We'll see which one goes after Delmas and how his career plays out.
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@ ytown: i'm the guy who's been saying that moore can't play safety in the league because of his coverage issues and that he'll have to be a cover 2 WLB.
but that's something i firmly believe after seeing him play two late-season games and in the senior bowl. whether because of injury or lack of ability, moore can't cover whatsoever, which is a severe deficiency that he won't overcome if he stays at safety.
@ ytown: i'm the guy who's been saying that moore can't play safety in the league because of his coverage issues and that he'll have to be a cover 2 WLB.
but that's something i firmly believe after seeing him play two late-season games and in the senior bowl. whether because of injury or lack of ability, moore can't cover whatsoever, which is a severe deficiency that he won't overcome if he stays at safety.
Yeah, he was pretty bad in the bowl game.
After he got burned for the TD, I remember the color guy saying something like, "They really like that matchup." It sounded like part of Northwestern's gameplan was to exploit Moore's coverage issues by forcing him to cover receivers one on one. It definitely worked: he got beat by Andrew Brewer, who's a 4.6 guy.
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@ ytown: i'm the guy who's been saying that moore can't play safety in the league because of his coverage issues and that he'll have to be a cover 2 WLB.
but that's something i firmly believe after seeing him play two late-season games and in the senior bowl. whether because of injury or lack of ability, moore can't cover whatsoever, which is a severe deficiency that he won't overcome if he stays at safety.
We'll see what our new LB coach thinks since he coached him in college. After watching Jones the last two years, Moore looks like a shut down corner compared to him. Since we will be playing a lot of cover 2 he should be fine. But, that's why the draft is such a crap shoot. I actually like Chung better but Moore is a beast against the run.
We'll see which one goes after Delmas and how his career plays out.
We'll see what our new LB coach thinks since he coached him in college. After watching Jones the last two years, Moore looks like a shut down corner compared to him. Since we will be playing a lot of cover 2 he should be fine. But, that's why the draft is such a crap shoot. I actually like Chung better but Moore is a beast against the run.
We'll see which one goes after Delmas and how his career plays out.
Thanks for the laugh Ytown, that was some funny shit.
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