In or Out burger

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Per the PFR career production average the 25 players that have had the most productive careers to date that are not in the HOF include the following (both inactive and active, eligible and non eligible):

Peyton Manning

Brett Favre

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Ray Lewis

Ladanian Tomlinson

Marvin Harrison

Randy Moss

Jeff Saturday

Ken Anderson

Julius Peppers

Brian Urlacher

Terrelle Owens

Reggie Wayne

Phillip Rivers

Ed Reed

Edgerrin James

Donovan McNabb

Randall Cunningham

Ronde Barber

Champ Bailey

Kevin Mawae

Jason Taylor

Zach Thomas

Alan Faneca.

highlighted are my choices from this list....the others are borderline.

Zombo

Jerry Kramer

LC Greenwood

Kevin Greene

Lester Hayes

Tommy Nobis

Roger Craig

Ken Stabler

Jim Plunkett

Steve Atwater

Neil Smith

Ken Anderson

Leroy Butler

Marvin Harrison

Jim Marshall

Morten Andersen

Tony Boselli

Chris Hinton

Terrelle Davis

London Fletcher

Steve McNair

Edgerinn James

Sterling Sharpe

Henry Ellard

Ed Too Tall Jones

Dick Shafrath

Joe Klecko

Clay Matthews

Cornelius Bennett

Albert Lewis

Steve Tasker

Ben Coates

Hanford Dixon

Rod Smith

Eddie George

Ricky Watters

Ken Easley

Greg Lloyd

Sam Mills

Donovan McNabb

Drew Bledsoe

Randall Cunningham

Boomer Esiason

Jim Hart

Isaac Bruce

Cliff Harris

Bob Keuchenberg

Karl Mecklenberg

Nate Newton

Jim Tyrer

Isaiah Robertson

Charlie Hennigan

Deron Cherry

Terrelle Owens

Ronde Barber

Kevin Mawae

Jason Taylor

Zach Thomas

Alan Faneca

John Hadl

Vinny Testaverde

Lomas Brown

Steve Wisniewski.

DieHardBrownsFan

Wish In and Out Burger would have a franchise in the Cleveland area......

The Gipper

I will add Nobis, Atwater and Tasker (as a pure ST player) to my list.

Suomi

They can all stay out. My philosophy on any Hall of Fame is that it should be reserved for the best of the best. If that philosophy is not applied you end up with the Baseball Hall of Fame.

While many of these players were outstanding I wouldn't go so far as to claim that any of them were the obvious best of their era.

nickers

@the-gipper said:

Jerry Kramer yes

LC Greenwood no

Kevin Greene no

Lester Hayes yes

Tommy Nobis no

Roger Craig no

Ken Stabler yes

Jim Plunkett yes

Steve Atwater yes

Neil Smith no

Ken Anderson no

Leroy Butler no

Marvin Harrison yes

Jim Marshall no

Morten Andersen yes

Tony Boselli no

Chris Hinton no

Terrelle Davis Hell no

London Fletcher no

Steve McNair no

Edgerinn James yes

Sterling Sharpe no

Henry Ellard no

Ed Too Tall Jones no

Dick Shafrath yes

Joe Klecko no

Clay Matthews yes

Cornelius Bennett yes

Albert Lewis no

Steve Tasker hell no

Ben Coates maybe

Hanford Dixon yes

Rod Smith no

Eddie George no

Ricky Watters no

Ken Easley maybe

Greg Lloyd no

Sam Mills no

Donovan McNabb no, he's a choke artist when it counted

Drew Bledsoe maybe

Randall Cunningham fuck no!

Boomer Esiason NO!

Jim Hart no

Isaac Bruce maybe

Cliff Harris no

Bob Keuchenberg no

Karl Mecklenberg yes

Nate Newton yes

Jim Tyrer no

Isaiah Robertson no

Charlie Hennigan no

Deron Cherry yes

Terrelle Owens no,hes a dumb asshole.

Ronde Barber no

Kevin Mawae maybe

Jason Taylor no

Zach Thomas yes

Alan Faneca yes

John Hadl no

Vinny Testaverde Hell fucking NO!

Lomas Brown yes

Steve Wisniewski. yes

The Gipper

@suomi said:

They can all stay out. My philosophy on any Hall of Fame is that it should be reserved for the best of the best. If that philosophy is not applied you end up with the Baseball Hall of Fame.

While many of these players were outstanding I wouldn't go so far as to claim that any of them were the obvious best of their era.

Except that a few of them very well may be the best of the best.

Take Jim Marshall......he is ranked by Career average as the 26th best player of all time. ONLY Reggie White, Bruce Smith, and running mates Carl Eller and Alan Page rank out as better defensive linemen than him. And that is part of his problem....the HOF really doesn't want to put a third member of those Purple People eaters in the HOF....even though it seems he deserves it.

Marshall ranks out higher than the likes of Merlin Olsen, Michael Strahan, Chris Doleman, Randy White, Warren Sapp, Jack Youngblood, Joe Greene, Dan Hampton, Richard Dent and others that are in the HOF

And I know Zombo doesn't want to hear this.....but also: Ken Anderson. He is ranked as the 31st most productive player of all time, and the 12th best QB of all time. He didn't win a Super Bowl, but then neither did the likes of Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, Tarkenton. His career average ranks better than the likes of Bob Griese, Len Dawson, Sonny Jurgenson, Jim Kelly...and others.

And there may be a few others...but those are two that come to mind.

wargograw

@diehardbrownsfan said:
Wish In and Out Burger would have a franchise in the Cleveland area......

Overrated. We just got one in Austin (the overrated food capital of the world). You can have it.

Vagitron

I can't believe the number of people that breezed over Alan Faneca. He was one of the best guards in the game. He's going to get in at some point.

Vagitron

@wargograw said:
Overrated. We just got one in Austin (the overrated food capital of the world). You can have it.

Comparing them to other fast food burgers NOT overrated. Comparing to best burgers you've ever eaten, yes overrated.

Flugel

I must have adult onset ADD or something because all I did in this thread was look to see if people remembered how many years of excellent football Clay Matthews contributed with a flexibility to play any of 4 LBer positions here. At a banquet I once attended where Joe Delamielleure was the guest speaker - he said Clay Matthews was not only our toughest LBer but one of the toughest SOBs he's ever had to block in a career full of Pro Bowls.

When you really think about it - that first round of 1978 with Ozzie and Clay helped set up a lot of playoff appearances for this franchise throughout the 80s for a team that's only won about 1 playoff game since they retired. Think about that.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
I can't believe the number of people that breezed over Alan Faneca. He was one of the best guards in the game. He's going to get in at some point.

Probably because he is a guard....and a Steeler.

The Gipper

@flugel said:

I must have adult onset ADD or something because all I did in this thread was look to see if people remembered how many years of excellent football Clay Matthews contributed with a flexibility to play any of 4 LBer positions here. At a banquet I once attended where Joe Delamielleure was the guest speaker - he said Clay Matthews was not only our toughest LBer but one of the toughest SOBs he's ever had to block in a career full of Pro Bowls.

When you really think about it - that first round of 1978 with Ozzie and Clay helped set up a lot of playoff appearances for this franchise throughout the 80s for a team that's only won about 1 playoff game since they retired. Think about that.

Honestly.....winning was the issue. Had the Browns won a couple of SBs, he would likely be in.

But he also came into the league about the same time as Lawrence Taylor, Singletary and a few others, so he gets overlooked.

And while his sack numbers weren't bad....they weren't as good as some others....expecially some DEs of the era. Making a splash with sacks got others noticed more.

Flugel

@the-gipper said:

Honestly.....winning was the issue. Had the Browns won a couple of SBs, he would likely be in.

But he also came into the league about the same time as Lawrence Taylor, Singletary and a few others, so he gets overlooked.

And while his sack numbers weren't bad....they weren't as good as some others....expecially some DEs of the era. Making a splash with sacks got others noticed more.

I'm afraid you're right Gipper about how much they weigh HOF candidates appearing in Superbowls (outside of a few exceptions). That sucks.

Here's the thing, Cleveland was pretty awful in significant parts of the 70s before they drafted Matthews and Newsome. That was a day and age teams didn't go from worst to first overnight. I can say without hesitation my golden years as a fan was in 80s. We made the playoffs 7 times. From 1990 to 2014, Cleveland only made the playoffs twice.

After drafting Matthews & Newsome in the 1st round of 1978 - here's our records up through 1989:

1978 8-8

1979 9-7

1980 11-5 (playoffs 0-1)

1981 5-11

1982 4-5 (playoffs 0-1)

1983 9-7

1984 5-11

1985 8-8 (playoffs 0-1)

1986 12-4 (playoffs 1-1) AFC Championship Game

1987 10-5 (playoffs 1-1) AFC Championship Game

1988 10-6 (playoffs 0-1)

1989 9-6-1 (playoffs 1-1) AFC Championship Game

As Joe Delamielleure said, Clay played all 4 different LBer positions extremely well. That shouldn't have worked against him the way that it did. Classic Clay Matthews was intercepting Jim Kelly at the goal to seal a playoff win; and get Cleveland to their 3rd AFC Championship Game in 4 years. If we asked Matthews to be what we drafted Chip Banks for - all we gotta do gotta do is see what one of his polliwogs ended up doing for Green Bay in that role. That's okay though. What set Clay apart to me was his 1st step instinct and pre-snap diagnosis. That was invaluable against the point of attack and covering the hook zones or flats. A franchise that never makes the playoffs, made them 7 times with 3 AFC Championship appearances in the 80s leaning heavily on the talent and leadership of Matthews and Newsome. That type/length of spike should have been acknowledged better especially considering we've only made the playoffs twice from 1990-2014.

ballpeen

@the-gipper said:

OK, we have "played" this game before. The following list or people are "borderline" HOF candidates. You simply say if that person should be in or out. This was prompted by the Stabler/Plunkett conversation on another thread.

(Note....I am leaving off some sure fire HOF guys like Ray Lewis/Favre/Moss/Urlacher/Ed Reed/LDT/Kurt Warner..as they are not borderline imo):

Jerry Kramer................IN

LC Greenwood

Kevin Greene

Lester Hayes

Tommy Nobis.......IN

Roger Craig

Ken Stabler

Jim Plunkett

Steve Atwater

Neil Smith

Ken Anderson

Leroy Butler

Marvin Harrison IN

Jim Marshall IN

Morten Andersen IN

Tony Boselli

Chris Hinton

Terrelle Davis

London Fletcher

Steve McNair

Edgerinn James

Sterling Sharpe

Henry Ellard

Ed Too Tall Jones

Dick Shafrath

Joe Klecko

Clay Matthews

Cornelius Bennett

Albert Lewis

Steve Tasker

Ben Coates

Hanford Dixon

Rod Smith

Eddie George

Ricky Watters

Ken Easley IN

Greg Lloyd

Sam Mills

Donovan McNabb

Drew Bledsoe

Randall Cunningham

Boomer Esiason

Jim Hart

Isaac Bruce

Cliff Harris

Bob Keuchenberg

Karl Mecklenberg

Nate Newton

Jim Tyrer

Isaiah Robertson

Charlie Hennigan

Deron Cherry

Terrelle Owens

Ronde Barber

Kevin Mawae

Jason Taylor

Zach Thomas

Alan Faneca

John Hadl

Vinny Testaverde

Lomas Brown

Steve Wisniewski.

Or anyone else you may think of.

The Gipper

Peen: I always thought that Kenny Easly would be a good choice as well.

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Per the PFR career production average the 25 players that have had the most productive careers to date that are not in the HOF include the following (both inactive and active, eligible and non eligible):

Peyton Manning

Brett Favre

Tom Brady

Drew Brees

Ray Lewis

Ladanian Tomlinson

Marvin Harrison

Jim Marshall

Randy Moss

Jeff Saturday

Ken Anderson

Julius Peppers

Brian Urlacher

Terrelle Owens

Reggie Wayne

Phillip Rivers

Ed Reed

Edgerrin James

Donovan McNabb

Randall Cunningham

Ronde Barber

Champ Bailey

Kevin Mawae

Jason Taylor

Zach Thomas

Alan Faneca.

The players in bold are currently eligible for induction and have been passed over at least one time.