Jonathan Paul Manziel
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No one would give a shit about this situation if Johnny didn't have a history of having a self-created circus around him. Didn't he already have an issue with someone in his posse thumping a fan in a hotel lobby?
The fan issued a public apology after the fact and took all of the blame for attempting to agitate Johnny.
Once again, a situation where - had Johnny not been Johnny - nobody would be talking about it whatsoever. The "circus" isn't self-created. it's wholly driven by the media. There was an interesting take on this today by Pat McManoman (http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/13996/does-johnny-manziels-belong-to-all-of-us).
Basically, what he's wondering is what we've talked about on here before - at what point does the media make his life a self-fulfilling prophecy?
I used to be a hot-headed fighter. I used to think of myself as some sort of Robin Hood when it came to drunk people, idiots and assholes. if someone was showing their ass, I'd punch them in face just to show I was bigger and better than them. I've punched more than one friend in the face on more than one occasion. But, once I hit a certain age, I realized that was just stupid peacocking behavior from a young kid with ego problems. I haven't been in a fight in two years, I've been very studious about working off any pent-up aggression, I take care to rationally talk through any issues I have with drunk friends or I just remove myself from the situation. I have dedicated time and brainpower to doing something that most people just do naturally.
However, my friends, knowing my past, still antagonize me from time to time just to see if they can. They poke and prod because, to them, it's funny to see me get riled up. It's the same with Johnny now. Regardless of what he was...he's making a conscious effort to change - but the media (and society as a whole) aren't willing to forget. A mature Johnny who calmly removed himself from the situation and spoke to the authorities doesn't sell papers. So they'll take the one aspect they can and spin it out of control. It doesn't matter that the police and bystanders have both commented on the fact that he handled it maturely, it doesn't matter that he was at a weekend event where alcohol was bountiful, yet wasn't drinking at all - he threw a water bottle so he's clearly "same old Johnny".
I don't have the restraint to continue to deal with idiots for extended periods of time. The fact that I'm still posting here is crazy.
LOL... very quoteworthy...
Just think of us as free therapy.
I think thats a pretty fair statement overall.......we can all agree that Johnny has caused much of his trouble....BUT the media is magnifying it and pouncing every chance they get(and there are a LOT of opportunities, unfortunately).....and he seems to attract a lot of idiots, like this kid he encountered at the tourney....or the guy in the lobby who got punched......or the fans at the bar who poured drinks on him.....so, if not for the idiots and prying media, most of this stuff would just fly under the radar.....and if Johnny actually played good, then we should all admit we would be more accepting of his antics....
For me.....it's not really about "blame" or whos fault this all is.........no, it's about all this shit being brought to the Browns(no matter WHO is the initial cause).....thats all....I dont hate Johnny, I just hate the shit that swirls around him...(and no matter whether you think it's his fault or not....it's there and it's not good for the team)
And the only 2 solutions to make it stop are either he learns to handle it properly AND plays great....or he goes away.....
Until then....he needs to figure out that he is a HUGE target and have a better plan about how he's gonna handle "things" when they crop up....as they seem to do so frequently.....
Sometimes I am jealous of other's posts... like this one.
If Manziel had done absolutely nothing and left the event, we would have seen "Manziel Accosted By Inebriated Fan; Leaves PGA Tourney Event" - because that's going to have a high clickthrough rate and is a shareable news item.
Actually I am no sure we would have seen that headline. Not sexy enough....
Agreed.
Seconded...
Judging from the jersey sales, they are.
Anyone have regional sales figures?
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Would love to see where I said this.
I dont think I said you said anything
So, now where did I say this?
To me this is very reminiscent of the Johnny Finger incident...not a REAL big deal....but an indication that he struggles with keeping his cool when you ruffle his feathers....
How many other players have flipped off the opposing bench for name calling or thrown bottles at idiot fans???
it seems it's easy to get under his skin(and his fans skin too, ftm).....and he hasn't gained any insight in this area since the redskins game......
He also has some record comebacks when you ruffle his feathers. Not condoning him going out, but comparing this to how he handles a blitz is ridiculous to me.
So....we all interpret what we read the way we want to.....you included....
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Someone else specifically said "what's he going to do when he's blitzed?" or something to that effect.
Your post that I asked you about came right after mine IIRC and since I'm carrying the flag on the "it'd be fun to be a fan of a bad boy Browns quarterback (AKA BBBQB)," I thought it was fair to assume you were talking to me.
So who said that jersey sales and a bad attitude now equaled a good QB?
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Zombo said:
Bad boys drink tequila, shit fire, fuck your wife, and don't explain anything.
By the utter reaching you do in order to dump on him (this post itself being a good example) I'm surprised this hasn't happened. Also, at least to everyone I know, tequila is regarded as a pretty feminine drink.
So just to be clear: when he's getting drunk, sleeping with women like Wilt Chamberlain, and not explaining any of it (2012-2014, only 2014 being relevant to you), he's a huge prick and should straighten out, but now that he's clean he's no longer a bad boy.
But you admit to wanting him to be good without being a bad boy, yet are not satisfied with his current state, even though by your own admission, he's no longer a bad boy.
What a tangled web we weave.
But to your point: we played Sam Houston State who is a notoriously dirty team that tries to cheap shot/injure opponents and talk a lot of trash. Johnny took the opportunity to teabag one of their defenders as he was getting up after trucking him into the end zone.
Against Rice when some kid was mouthing off to him, he mouthed off right back and pointed at the scoreboard, almost getting ejected IIRC.
Also against Rice (suspended the first half for selling autographs), he pantomimed signing an autograph after some Rice player mouthed off to him.
Here he is doing the PAT.
These are just off the top of my head. I only said he needed to keep his edge ON the field, and I'm sure he will. Sorry he's failed to live up to your definition of a "bad boy" (even though for a page and a half you argued things with the premise that he was).
Against Rice when some kid was mouthing off to him, he mouthed off right back and pointed at the scoreboard, almost getting ejected IIRC.
Nowhere near getting ejected as I recall... but Summerlin chewed on his ass, but good and IIRC threatened to pull him.
He could be on any NFL teams roster right now.
Ummm... no. I'll bet half the league would not take him for free. Which half is right is still TBD, but it's not looking good for our half.
1. They're not wrong, they are just in the minority.
2. Game managers only work if you have a top 5 defense, a top 10 rushing attack, and great special teams play. If one of those go to shit, you can't rely on your "game manager" to do anything more than manage to lose.
3. This is just people rooting for a guy to fail with no heir apparent currently on the roster.
3. I know you know the difference between "rooting for someone to fail" and performance appraisal whether objective or subjective.
2. It's like you have a copy of Pet's and Farm's blueprint.
1. On the great jersey debate, the only one to cite any relevant data to this point is Z.
I hear you on the FO's willingness to gamble a draft pick, but there are good gambles and bad gambles.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What is Z's relevant data? That his own friends didn't buy Johnny jerseys? In that case, my anecdotal evidence of the Austin Browns Backers president (UT grad) wearing one is just as relevant.
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Irrelevant to the point we're discussing. Browns fans, despite your claims, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they wanted to be fans of a bad boy QB.
Maybe lots of 12 year olds bought jerseys.
I run a Browns fan website and am president of Browns Backer chapter of 300 or so fans.
Never got the indication that Browns fans want a "bad boy" QB.
Starving for a good one ... yes. Hoping he's a 5'11 elf that flips people off ... no.
But we will take that if he's good.
Pretty simple, really.
Zombo
Your memory is worse than mine...
Zombo said:
I run a Browns fan website and am president of Browns Backer chapter of 300 or so fans.
Never got the indication that Browns fans want a "bad boy" QB.
Starving for a good one ... yes. Hoping he's a 5'11 elf that flips people off ... no.
But we will take that if he's good.
Pretty simple, really.
Zombo
Just my opinion, but I think the above trumps your Austin chapter example.
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Someone else specifically said "what's he going to do when he's blitzed?" or something to that effect.
Your post that I asked you about came right after mine IIRC and since I'm carrying the flag on the "it'd be fun to be a fan of a bad boy Browns quarterback (AKA BBBQB)," I thought it was fair to assume you were talking to me.
So who said that jersey sales and a bad attitude now equaled a good QB?
Someone else specifically said "what's he going to do when he's blitzed?" or something to that effect.
Your post that I asked you about came right after mine IIRC and since I'm carrying the flag on the "it'd be fun to be a fan of a bad boy Browns quarterback (AKA BBBQB)," I thought it was fair to assume you were talking to me.
So who said that jersey sales and a bad attitude now equaled a good QB?
Well you quoted me, so Id assume you were replying to me....see how that works?....but fine....you quoted me but were responding to someone else...ok...
Like me just quoting someone else and you responding as if I was talking to you.....(seems backwards to me).
But if it makes you happy and you seem to LOVE arguing stupid stupid shit, then you never said it....happy?...got a boner now?
bottom line, Im just tired with your none stop multi paragraph argumentative bullshit and pointless diversions from seemingly every single topic......it's tiring.....
And Ive had WAY too much of the Texas Johnny Manlove flooding the boards with gay johnny shit.....and videos of his bad assness...makes me want to puke.....
So....no you didnt say it made him a good QB....
Now go find someone else to argue your stupid bullshit with, cause I aint the one.......
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All I said was it will be really fun to be a fan of his if he's a good pro.
How people get their panties in a wad in response isn't my problem. And make no mistake, they did.
I only posted the videos AFTER Zombo asserted that Johnny was NOT a "bad boy" to prove that he was. But to someone that hasn't been following the debate, that appears as my "Texas Johnny Manlove flooding the boards with gay Johnny shit and videos of his badassness." I only posted that stuff for a very specific purpose.
You're right I did quote you so my bad.
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All is well in Brownsville. Season can't get started soon enough.
And if you don't agree with that then all, including Tour, don't have a clue.
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Your memory is worse than mine...
Zombo said:
I run a Browns fan website and am president of Browns Backer chapter of 300 or so fans.
Never got the indication that Browns fans want a "bad boy" QB.
Starving for a good one ... yes. Hoping he's a 5'11 elf that flips people off ... no.
But we will take that if he's good.
Pretty simple, really.
Zombo
Just my opinion, but I think the above trumps your Austin chapter example.
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Ya'll should have been here during the DA/Quinn era. This is peaceful by comparison.
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Definitely. And no that's not sarcasm.
His future is at least somewhat of a win-win for me either way. Not having to listen to the "you're only here because of Johnny" garbage will be nice.
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Against Rice when some kid was mouthing off to him, he mouthed off right back and pointed at the scoreboard, almost getting ejected IIRC.
Nowhere near getting ejected as I recall... but Summerlin chewed on his ass, but good and IIRC threatened to pull him.
He could be on any NFL teams roster right now.
Ummm... no. I'll bet half the league would not take him for free. Which half is right is still TBD, but it's not looking good for our half.
1. They're not wrong, they are just in the minority.
2. Game managers only work if you have a top 5 defense, a top 10 rushing attack, and great special teams play. If one of those go to shit, you can't rely on your "game manager" to do anything more than manage to lose.
3. This is just people rooting for a guy to fail with no heir apparent currently on the roster.
3. I know you know the difference between "rooting for someone to fail" and performance appraisal whether objective or subjective.
2. It's like you have a copy of Pet's and Farm's blueprint.
1. On the great jersey debate, the only one to cite any relevant data to this point is Z.
I hear you on the FO's willingness to gamble a draft pick, but there are good gambles and bad gambles.
3. I know you know the difference between "rooting for someone to fail" and performance appraisal whether objective or subjective.
2. It's like you have a copy of Pet's and Farm's blueprint.
1. On the great jersey debate, the only one to cite any relevant data to this point is Z.
I hear you on the FO's willingness to gamble a draft pick, but there are good gambles and bad gambles.
His performance has been garbage. I'm not saying anything otherwise, and you'd be hardpressed to find me applauding any of his peformances thus far - with the exception of a few throws in the Buffalo game.
2. I'm not going by their gameplan, I'm going by the general sentiment that seems to be floating around this board. I can't keep track of how many times I've read "strong defense, great running game, game manager at QB" as a rebuttal to the idea of having a franchise quarterback. Fact of the matter is that many posters in here are longing for days long past. You certainly need a strong defense, you definitely need a strong running game...but you also have to have a strong quarterback.
Rex Grossman, Colin Kaepernick and maybe Matt Hasselbeck are the only three non-franchise QB's to make it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years. It's highly unlikely to make it to the big dance if you don't have a talented guy behind center. Plain and simple.
1. Here's relevant stats related to jersey sales: https://www.nflpa.com/players/news/russell-wilson-defends-retail-crown-on-nfl-players-inc-top-50-player-sales-year-end-list
Top Jersey Sales by player 2014-2015
1. Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
2. Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos
3. Tom Brady, New England Patriots
4. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers
5. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers
6. Dez Bryant, Dallas Cowboys
7. Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks
8. J.J. Watt, Houston Texans
9. Marshawn Lynch, Seattle Seahawks
10. Johnny Manziel, Cleveland Browns
11. Jason Witten, Dallas Cowboys
12. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints
13. Rob Gronkowski, New England Patriots
14. LeSean McCoy, Philadelphia Eagles
15. Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts
16. Clay Matthews, Green Bay Packers
17. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys
18. Brandon Marshall, Chicago Bears
19. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
20. Odell Beckham Jr., New York Giants
21. Jordy Nelson, Green Bay Packers
22. Eli Manning, New York Giants
23. DeMarco Murray, Dallas Cowboys
24. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
25. Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins
26. Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles
27. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota Vikings
28. Jamaal Charles, Kansas City Chiefs
29. Earl Thomas, Seattle Seahawks
30. Kam Chancellor, Seattle Seahawks
31. Eddie Lacy, Green Bay Packers
32. Ryan Tannehill, Miami Dolphins
33. Victor Cruz, New York Giants
34. Luke Kuechly, Carolina Panthers
35. Matt Forte, Chicago Bears
36. Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
37. Patrick Willis, San Francisco 49ers
38. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
39. Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh Steelers
40. Demaryius Thomas, Denver Broncos
41. Julian Edelman, New England Patriots
42. Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh Steelers
43. LeโVeon Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers
44. Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers
45. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
46. Devon Still, Cincinnati Bengals
47. Frank Gore, San Francisco 49ers
48. A.J. Green, Cincinnati Bengals
49. Teddy Twatwater, Minnesota Vikings
50. Wes Welker, Denver Broncos
Not only is Manziel in the top 10, he's the only Brown in the top 50.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Troll alert.
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too bad jersey sales don't translate to on-field performance.
my bet is the only way he sees the field this year would be due to injury to mccown.
but until then you and PoG can hold hands and walk down the manziel dirt trail.
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All is well in Brownsville. Season can't get started soon enough.
And if you don't agree with that then all, including Tour, don't have a clue.
All is well in Brownsville. Season can't get started soon enough.
And if you don't agree with that then all, including Tour, don't have a clue.
There's the Ag we all love...
Ok I'll grant you that but it's not exactly checkmate kind of info.
Agree... just check.
2. I'm not going by their gameplan, I'm going by the general sentiment that seems to be floating around this board. I can't keep track of how many times I've read "strong defense, great running game, game manager at QB" as a rebuttal to the idea of having a franchise quarterback. Fact of the matter is that many posters in here are longing for days long past. You certainly need a strong defense, you definitely need a strong running game...but you also have to have a strong quarterback.
Top Jersey Sales by player 2014-2015
10. Johnny Manziel, Cleveland Browns
Not only is Manziel in the top 10, he's the only Brown in the top 50.
Which tells me that Manziel fans and not Browns fans made the difference. All we heard after the draft from "the influx" was how JM Browns' jerseys were hard to keep in stock in Texas. While there is an intersection of the two circles of fans (remember your set theory or Boolean algebra?) I do not think it is that large. Not yet anyway... and it has not exactly been growing.
Without regional data we are both hand-waving.
On the QB... I don't think it is so much a rebuttal as it is the available path. As we've agreed before:
D+RunningGame+FranchiseQB > D+RunningGame+GameManagaingPlaceholder
And someday we will get a Franchise QB.
But until then we build what we can in the other two areas.
Simple...
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3. I know you know the difference between "rooting for someone to fail" and performance appraisal whether objective or subjective.
2. It's like you have a copy of Pet's and Farm's blueprint.
1. On the great jersey debate, the only one to cite any relevant data to this point is Z.
I hear you on the FO's willingness to gamble a draft pick, but there are good gambles and bad gambles.
His performance has been garbage. I'm not saying anything otherwise, and you'd be hardpressed to find me applauding any of his peformances thus far - with the exception of a few throws in the Buffalo game.
2. I'm not going by their gameplan, I'm going by the general sentiment that seems to be floating around this board. I can't keep track of how many times I've read "strong defense, great running game, game manager at QB" as a rebuttal to the idea of having a franchise quarterback. Fact of the matter is that many posters in here are longing for days long past. You certainly need a strong defense, you definitely need a strong running game...but you also have to have a strong quarterback.
Rex Grossman, Colin Kaepernick and maybe Matt Hasselbeck are the only three non-franchise QB's to make it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years. It's highly unlikely to make it to the big dance if you don't have a talented guy behind center. Plain and simple.
1. Here's relevant stats related to jersey sales: https://www.nflpa.com/players/news/russell-wilson-defends-retail-crown-on-nfl-players-inc-top-50-player-sales-year-end-list
Top Jersey Sales by player 2014-2015
1. Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
2. Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos
3. Tom Brady, New England Patriots
4. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers
5. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers
6. Dez Bryant, Dallas Cowboys
7. Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks
8. J.J. Watt, Houston Texans
9. Marshawn Lynch, Seattle Seahawks
10. Johnny Manziel, Cleveland Browns
11. Jason Witten, Dallas Cowboys
12. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints
13. Rob Gronkowski, New England Patriots
14. LeSean McCoy, Philadelphia Eagles
15. Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts
16. Clay Matthews, Green Bay Packers
17. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys
18. Brandon Marshall, Chicago Bears
19. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
20. Odell Beckham Jr., New York Giants
21. Jordy Nelson, Green Bay Packers
22. Eli Manning, New York Giants
23. DeMarco Murray, Dallas Cowboys
24. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
25. Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins
26. Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles
27. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota Vikings
28. Jamaal Charles, Kansas City Chiefs
29. Earl Thomas, Seattle Seahawks
30. Kam Chancellor, Seattle Seahawks
31. Eddie Lacy, Green Bay Packers
32. Ryan Tannehill, Miami Dolphins
33. Victor Cruz, New York Giants
34. Luke Kuechly, Carolina Panthers
35. Matt Forte, Chicago Bears
36. Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
37. Patrick Willis, San Francisco 49ers
38. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
39. Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh Steelers
40. Demaryius Thomas, Denver Broncos
41. Julian Edelman, New England Patriots
42. Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh Steelers
43. LeโVeon Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers
44. Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers
45. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
46. Devon Still, Cincinnati Bengals
47. Frank Gore, San Francisco 49ers
48. A.J. Green, Cincinnati Bengals
49. Teddy Twatwater, Minnesota Vikings
50. Wes Welker, Denver Broncos
Not only is Manziel in the top 10, he's the only Brown in the top 50.
His performance has been garbage. I'm not saying anything otherwise, and you'd be hardpressed to find me applauding any of his peformances thus far - with the exception of a few throws in the Buffalo game.
2. I'm not going by their gameplan, I'm going by the general sentiment that seems to be floating around this board. I can't keep track of how many times I've read "strong defense, great running game, game manager at QB" as a rebuttal to the idea of having a franchise quarterback. Fact of the matter is that many posters in here are longing for days long past. You certainly need a strong defense, you definitely need a strong running game...but you also have to have a strong quarterback.
Rex Grossman, Colin Kaepernick and maybe Matt Hasselbeck are the only three non-franchise QB's to make it to the Super Bowl in the past 10 years. It's highly unlikely to make it to the big dance if you don't have a talented guy behind center. Plain and simple.
1. Here's relevant stats related to jersey sales: https://www.nflpa.com/players/news/russell-wilson-defends-retail-crown-on-nfl-players-inc-top-50-player-sales-year-end-list
Top Jersey Sales by player 2014-2015
1. Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks
2. Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos
3. Tom Brady, New England Patriots
4. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers
5. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers
6. Dez Bryant, Dallas Cowboys
7. Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks
8. J.J. Watt, Houston Texans
9. Marshawn Lynch, Seattle Seahawks
10. Johnny Manziel, Cleveland Browns
11. Jason Witten, Dallas Cowboys
12. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints
13. Rob Gronkowski, New England Patriots
14. LeSean McCoy, Philadelphia Eagles
15. Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts
16. Clay Matthews, Green Bay Packers
17. Tony Romo, Dallas Cowboys
18. Brandon Marshall, Chicago Bears
19. Calvin Johnson, Detroit Lions
20. Odell Beckham Jr., New York Giants
21. Jordy Nelson, Green Bay Packers
22. Eli Manning, New York Giants
23. DeMarco Murray, Dallas Cowboys
24. Cam Newton, Carolina Panthers
25. Robert Griffin III, Washington Redskins
26. Nick Foles, Philadelphia Eagles
27. Adrian Peterson, Minnesota Vikings
28. Jamaal Charles, Kansas City Chiefs
29. Earl Thomas, Seattle Seahawks
30. Kam Chancellor, Seattle Seahawks
31. Eddie Lacy, Green Bay Packers
32. Ryan Tannehill, Miami Dolphins
33. Victor Cruz, New York Giants
34. Luke Kuechly, Carolina Panthers
35. Matt Forte, Chicago Bears
36. Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens
37. Patrick Willis, San Francisco 49ers
38. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers
39. Troy Polamalu, Pittsburgh Steelers
40. Demaryius Thomas, Denver Broncos
41. Julian Edelman, New England Patriots
42. Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh Steelers
43. LeโVeon Bell, Pittsburgh Steelers
44. Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers
45. Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona Cardinals
46. Devon Still, Cincinnati Bengals
47. Frank Gore, San Francisco 49ers
48. A.J. Green, Cincinnati Bengals
49. Teddy Twatwater, Minnesota Vikings
50. Wes Welker, Denver Broncos
Not only is Manziel in the top 10, he's the only Brown in the top 50.
So? When can we expect these jersey sales to translate into victories?
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