Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Any Aggie that said Johnny was just going to coast to NFL success was delusional. Very few people are knowledgeable about both the college game and the pro game and when people try to comment on the other they generally sound really dumb. So I apologize to you on behalf of any Aggies that tried to shove Johnny down your throat like that.
I was always bearish on him as an NFL QB. I was excited when the Browns drafted him just because I knew the opportunity for success was here. But as a guy who wants the best for the Browns, I was mum on the idea of picking him, but thought we got solid value at 22.
But once he was in the fold it was what it was. I'm certainly not going to crap on the kid at every opportunity, just as I wouldn't with anyone else, especially another Brown.
Any Aggie that said Johnny was just going to coast to NFL success was delusional. Very few people are knowledgeable about both the college game and the pro game and when people try to comment on the other they generally sound really dumb. So I apologize to you on behalf of any Aggies that tried to shove Johnny down your throat like that.
Thanks... could have used you a year ago. Closest thing to an objective JM fan we had was Ag69... not coincidentally he's the only one still here.
And we wished it was simply down our throats... mostly it was up our asses... which might help explain what you see as JM overreactions from time to time.
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Pointed, but utterly meaningless in relation to the argument. The argument was that his jersey sales drastically dropped, which was indicative of him falling out of favor. I merely countered with proof that he's still a top-10 jersey seller and outsells all other Browns by far.
Pray tell how a single year's sales data proves that sales have not fallen?
I don't quarrel with the idea that IF all of those jerseys were not purchased by Browns fans, then that citation is worthless and my statement is that much less supported. But I think you have to look at the delta between his sales and those of Weeden or McCoy. They didn't quite have the national hype that Johnny did, but they did have hordes of fans from their college that would have jumped to purchase their jersey.
Can't speak to Colt's arrival as it predated me, but I was here for Wheezy's and if there was an influx of fans, then I must have blinked and missed it. On the other hand Manziel's influx was barely tolerable.
"Did not quite have" might be the understatement of the YTD. Johnny's celebrity fueled by style of play and a Heisman jacked his celebrity to heights Colt never achieved. But that's just my opinion vs yours.
It's the fact that you invoke Wheezy that shows how desperate you are to support your argument.
My question would be is if McCown would start and we are not going to be asking a lot out of him why wouldn't that apply to Manziel as well? Manziel could hand the ball off just as well, make the safe passes and even have the ability to scramble if the pocket collapses and make plays with his feet which is something McCown does not have near the agility to do. McCown has the experience but Manziel has more raw talent. It is going to be an interesting year but however it goes this team has the talent to win.
You came close to answering your own question... raw. JM simply has neither the game knowledge to fill a game manager role. Play calling and reads are critical to that role. But even more importantly JM has not displayed the personality, the temperament, the patience to stay in that role.
If he had both of those critical elements, then for the second year in a row we would not be looking to a journeyman for leadership who has had only one stretch where he displayed both of those elements.
Pray tell how a single year's sales data proves that sales have not fallen?
They've fallen huge.....that 10th place is where he finished for all of 2014....not where his sales are now.....so he started as #1 and finished at tenth(which, by average, means his sales were well below tenth by year end.....
In fact....IN CLEVELAND......Hoyer outsold Manziel and overtook him by October(which was pretty fast).....here's the link....
So....based upon this.....Id say Cleveland Fans are more into winners than bad boys....
Not only is Manziel in the top 10, he's the only Brown in the top 50.
That is Nationally and not where he is now(10th in sales).....he is waaaaaay down from that.....but in Cleveland??....Local CLEVELAND jersey sales have Haden as #1....Whitner as #2.....Thomas #3....
Last year, in Cleveland only.....Hoyer was #1....Haden #2....Whitner #3.....Thomas #4......Manziel #5
Here's a "current link" showing he's not even top 25 right now.....
http://7online.com/sports/marcus-mariota-edges-jameis-winston-in-monthly-nfl-jersey-sales/763907/
But lets say the sales were made up of 3 groups:
1. Browns fans
2. A&M fans
3. Non-A&M Johnny fans
You can throw the sales from group 2 out the window. Again, I'll give you that. But even though group 3 aren't Browns fans, they still represent the idea that people in general like a bad boy QB (or whatever Johnny is).
Honestly not trying to be a dick.....but just because you like his bad guy image AND he sold some jerseys, it doesnt mean that evrybody is buying the jerseys because they like bad guys....thats a flawed premise......Rookie 1st round QB's lead the league in jersey sales EVERY year.....
This year #1 is already Mariota....so is that because he's a bad boy?.....cause here's an article that says exactly the opposite...that he's selling jerseys because he's "squeaky clean"....(I dont buy either premise really).....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2474225-marcus-mariota-reportedly-tops-nfls-jersey-sales-for-may
Honestly, using "your" premise......I love Subway.....RG3 broke records selling jerseys and Hoyer passed JFF.....so therefore jersey buyers MUST love QB's who eat at Subway.....
Bottom line......1st round QB's sell jerseys.....Heisman winners sell jerseys......and you cant just say it's because of this or that.....it happens every single year....whether they are a Good guy, bad guy or Subway guy....
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Here's another interesting link to Dicks....a Cleveland Sporting Goods retailer.......and they rank their current jersey sales(with graphs and everything)......Id think this is a GREAT indicator for CLEVELAND fans buying habits.....JFF is currently #31, btw......
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Browns fans buying habits? Wow I knew we had that one nun who was an Indians fan. Im glad to see the Browns fans reciprocating to the fine women of the Catholic Church.
WSS
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and if you look at the national map, which shows sales by state, you'll see Johnny was #1 in 3 states.....OK, KY and OH.....and considering he was 5th in Cleveland, it's pretty apparent his sales were vastly inflated by "new Browns fans".....
Using the map, it's obvious almost ALL areas are buying jerseys for their local players(closest teams)...except OK.....
http://www.dsg.com/pages/best-selling-nfl-jerseys-by-state
and if you use the map and go by TEAM sales, you'll see OK is unique as one of only 2 states who favor a team far far away (as arkansas likes the Stoolers)....
http://www.dsg.com/pages/best-selling-nfl-jerseys-by-state
So, if OK has JFF as #1 and the Browns as #1, we can assume that they sold a HUGE amount of JFF jerseys.....
And KY sold more Cinn jerseys, yet had JFF as #1 too......so.....more PROOF that JFF's jerseys sold more elsewhere...
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just think (!)
if he stays out of the spotlight all this peripheral talk will fade away into nothingness...................................................
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Pointed, but utterly meaningless in relation to the argument. The argument was that his jersey sales drastically dropped, which was indicative of him falling out of favor. I merely countered with proof that he's still a top-10 jersey seller and outsells all other Browns by far.
Pray tell how a single year's sales data proves that sales have not fallen?
I don't quarrel with the idea that IF all of those jerseys were not purchased by Browns fans, then that citation is worthless and my statement is that much less supported. But I think you have to look at the delta between his sales and those of Weeden or McCoy. They didn't quite have the national hype that Johnny did, but they did have hordes of fans from their college that would have jumped to purchase their jersey.
Can't speak to Colt's arrival as it predated me, but I was here for Wheezy's and if there was an influx of fans, then I must have blinked and missed it. On the other hand Manziel's influx was barely tolerable.
"Did not quite have" might be the understatement of the YTD. Johnny's celebrity fueled by style of play and a Heisman jacked his celebrity to heights Colt never achieved. But that's just my opinion vs yours.
It's the fact that you invoke Wheezy that shows how desperate you are to support your argument.
My question would be is if McCown would start and we are not going to be asking a lot out of him why wouldn't that apply to Manziel as well? Manziel could hand the ball off just as well, make the safe passes and even have the ability to scramble if the pocket collapses and make plays with his feet which is something McCown does not have near the agility to do. McCown has the experience but Manziel has more raw talent. It is going to be an interesting year but however it goes this team has the talent to win.
You came close to answering your own question... raw. JM simply has neither the game knowledge to fill a game manager role. Play calling and reads are critical to that role. But even more importantly JM has not displayed the personality, the temperament, the patience to stay in that role.
If he had both of those critical elements, then for the second year in a row we would not be looking to a journeyman for leadership who has had only one stretch where he displayed both of those elements.
Pray tell how a single year's sales data proves that sales have not fallen?
Can't speak to Colt's arrival as it predated me, but I was here for Wheezy's and if there was an influx of fans, then I must have blinked and missed it. On the other hand Manziel's influx was barely tolerable.
"Did not quite have" might be the understatement of the YTD. Johnny's celebrity fueled by style of play and a Heisman jacked his celebrity to heights Colt never achieved. But that's just my opinion vs yours.
It's the fact that you invoke Wheezy that shows how desperate you are to support your argument.
You came close to answering your own question... raw. JM simply has neither the game knowledge to fill a game manager role. Play calling and reads are critical to that role. But even more importantly JM has not displayed the personality, the temperament, the patience to stay in that role.
If he had both of those critical elements, then for the second year in a row we would not be looking to a journeyman for leadership who has had only one stretch where he displayed both of those elements.
Only invoked Weeden because they were drafted in the same spot.
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Thanks Mud. Nice data. I suppose I stand corrected. Not that it's been proven Browns fans DON'T want a bad boy QB, but that you can't prove they do.
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yeah cuz when the term 'bad boy QB' is used the first image that pops into your head is johnny manziel, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now maybe 'spoiled brat QB'.................
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just think (!)
if he stays out of the spotlight all this peripheral talk will fade away into nothingness...................................................
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just think (!)
if he stays out of the spotlight all this peripheral talk will fade away into nothingness...................................................
...........................
........
..
Yeah? I'm Way too lazy to do the search but I wonder how many news stories about him we saw every fucking day while he was in rehab.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
yeah cuz when the term 'bad boy QB' is used the first image that pops into your head is johnny manziel, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now maybe 'spoiled brat QB'.................
yeah cuz when the term 'bad boy QB' is used the first image that pops into your head is johnny manziel, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm guessing that some on this board think that the blonde dude on Harry Potter is also a 'Bad Boy'
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just think (!)
if he stays out of the spotlight all this peripheral talk will fade away into nothingness...................................................
...........................
........
..
Yeah? I'm Way too lazy to do the search but I wonder how many news stories about him we saw every fucking day while he was in rehab.
WSS
Yeah? I'm Way too lazy to do the search but I wonder how many news stories about him we saw every fucking day while he was in rehab.
WSS
my guess any stories dealing with him acting like an ass would be zero.
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just think (!)
if he stays out of the spotlight all this peripheral talk will fade away into nothingness...................................................
...........................
........
..
Yeah? I'm Way too lazy to do the search but I wonder how many news stories about him we saw every fucking day while he was in rehab.
WSS
Yeah? I'm Way too lazy to do the search but I wonder how many news stories about him we saw every fucking day while he was in rehab.
WSS
Here's a fact.
"Johnny throws water bottle" completely crushed "Player kills dog". Smashed it. Stopped all that dead in it's tracks.
Should I laugh or cry?
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I'm guessing that some on this board think that the blonde dude on Harry Potter is also a 'Bad Boy'
without being an ass myself, i'd like the pro-JF fans to tell me what their solution is to this problem? some will say what problem? the problem is that manziel and SOME fans do not get along, albeit the fan's fault 99% of the time. he just can't handle it. what is your solution? i've told you mine. i'd like to hear from you guys.
just saying "oh let him live his life, you're jealous because he's rich and a celebrity and can do what he wants!" really? how's that been working out for him?
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Mik, you could probably guess my take by now but since you asked... I think the odds are probably against Johnny being the franchise quarterback the Cleveland Browns have been searching for. just the law of averages says that by far most Heisman Trophy first round quarterbacks fall well short of expectations. Fair enough? The odds are long against any quarterback drafted or sign from someone else's team or picked up in free agency being a top 15 quarterback in the NFL. I realize Johnny's is a celebrity and I believe most of the shit written about him is meaningless garbage for people who listen to Tony Rizzo and Gold hammer to squeal about. I'd have to speculate, which is basically meaningless, to give you my take on the situation last year. This water bottle incident and the fact that he went to a fucking PGA tournament really really means nothing.
The only reason we are even talking about it is that Browns fans are starved for real news and the reporters are too lazy to find anything meaningful to talk about. And we insist on a new topic every day!
Personally I've been disappointed each and every time a Cleveland Browns quarterback failed to take the team to the Superbowl.
I will be just as disappointed when Josh McCown, Connor Shaw and/or Johnny football are added to that list if and when they are.
I do hate listening to the chronic fucking whiners.
WSS
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until the browns find that franchise QB they'll have to win despite the QB. ravens did it with dilfer so..............it can be done.
i never used to get browns news on a national network until manziel came to town so there's that.
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I'm guessing that some on this board think that the blonde dude on Harry Potter is also a 'Bad Boy'
without being an ass myself, i'd like the pro-JF fans to tell me what their solution is to this problem? some will say what problem? the problem is that manziel and SOME fans do not get along, albeit the fan's fault 99% of the time. he just can't handle it. what is your solution? i've told you mine. i'd like to hear from you guys.
just saying "oh let him live his life, you're jealous because he's rich and a celebrity and can do what he wants!" really? how's that been working out for him?
without being an ass myself, i'd like the pro-JF fans to tell me what their solution is to this problem? some will say what problem? the problem is that manziel and SOME fans do not get along, albeit the fan's fault 99% of the time. he just can't handle it. what is your solution? i've told you mine. i'd like to hear from you guys.
just saying "oh let him live his life, you're jealous because he's rich and a celebrity and can do what he wants!" really? how's that been working out for him?
The solution is that the system is fine. Politely declining more than ten times, leaving the event, asking not to be touched, and enlisting the help of security are all viable options... and they are all things that Manziel did, according to the police. Once again, the people blowing this out of proportion are the detractors.
If something as trivial as throwing a water bottle is your impression of a hostile engagement, then I've been in at least 250 fights in my life.
I see absolutely no evidence of a person not being able to handle anything, except for the people here who can't handle a bit of Johnny Manziel news.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
until the browns find that franchise QB they'll have to win despite the QB. ravens did it with dilfer so..............it can be done.
i never used to get browns news on a national network until manziel came to town so there's that.
until the browns find that franchise QB they'll have to win despite the QB. ravens did it with dilfer so..............it can be done.
i never used to get browns news on a national network until manziel came to town so there's that.
Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson - proof that you don't need a franchise quarterback.
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without being an ass myself, i'd like the pro-JF fans to tell me what their solution is to this problem? some will say what problem? the problem is that manziel and SOME fans do not get along, albeit the fan's fault 99% of the time. he just can't handle it. what is your solution? i've told you mine. i'd like to hear from you guys.
just saying "oh let him live his life, you're jealous because he's rich and a celebrity and can do what he wants!" really? how's that been working out for him?
The solution is that the system is fine. Politely declining more than ten times, leaving the event, asking not to be touched, and enlisting the help of security are all viable options... and they are all things that Manziel did, according to the police. Once again, the people blowing this out of proportion are the detractors.
If something as trivial as throwing a water bottle is your impression of a hostile engagement, then I've been in at least 250 fights in my life.
I see absolutely no evidence of a person not being able to handle anything, except for the people here who can't handle a bit of Johnny Manziel news.
The solution is that the system is fine. Politely declining more than ten times, leaving the event, asking not to be touched, and enlisting the help of security are all viable options... and they are all things that Manziel did, according to the police. Once again, the people blowing this out of proportion are the detractors.
If something as trivial as throwing a water bottle is your impression of a hostile engagement, then I've been in at least 250 fights in my life.
I see absolutely no evidence of a person not being able to handle anything, except for the people here who can't handle a bit of Johnny Manziel news.
but it's not just people here. yes espn in a whole are/is a dick thing until they televise something you couldn't see anywhere else. the fact that the manziel water bottle thing was in the top 3 stories on many afternoon live broadcasts monday shows that it's not just 'us people' that over emphasize anything johnny.
the FACT is when he does his celebrity thing 5 times out of ten they end badly. you know my solution. i asked for yours. he should hire security and have them with him when he does his celebrity outings. if a 6 foot 8 370 lb. behemoth of a man went up to that kid that was harassing manziel and told the kid to stop, do you think it would have continued to be a problem? or how about being smart enough to realize (yourself as a educated person) that this thing is getting out of control and let's bounce. how hard would that have been? simple. simple. simple. but the fact that it got to the point where it WAS going to be a story is a fail on his part and on his management's.
AGAIN.
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until the browns find that franchise QB they'll have to win despite the QB. ravens did it with dilfer so..............it can be done.
i never used to get browns news on a national network until manziel came to town so there's that.
And that hasn't happened because of one huge factor. If the team sucks after a couple years they've pulled the plug on the entire staff and the incoming staff cleans house jettisoning good players decent players s***** players all of them to replace them with their own decent s***** or possibly good players and we start the dance over. This has happened almost every time. If the present regime gets a couple more years to build a rock solid team firing on all cylinders we can probably stick in any average quarterback and win, but not if we need to install a new offensive and defensive syste at the end of 2015.until the browns find that franchise QB they'll have to win despite the QB. ravens did it with dilfer so..............it can be done.
i never used to get browns news on a national network until manziel came to town so there's that.
WSS
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