New York man, jailed for 3 years without trial, kills himself
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I didn't know the law allowed anyone to be jailed this long without a trial. Should have never happened. The crime itself was not major, the alleged theft of a backpack. Most states I know of have speedy trial laws that have to start within 6 months or dismissal of the case. Nobody should ever have to wait in jail this long without the case going to trial. The case was eventually dismissed but it should have been dismissed after 6 months and not 3 years. New York needs to fix this so it never happens again.
I believe legislation - signed into law by Obama - allows for 'suspects' to be arrested without any public notice, without charges being applied and without any time limit for resolution.
Perhaps an extension of the Patriot Act at the time. Certainly, hysteria after 911
The Constitution allows for a quick and public trial but..................................
I believe legislation - signed into law by Obama - allows for 'suspects' to be arrested without any public notice, without charges being applied and without any time limit for resolution.
Perhaps an extension of the Patriot Act at the time. Certainly, hysteria after 911
The Constitution allows for a quick and public trial but..................................
This seems less like a national issue and more with the local courts. From this article http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/06/before-the-law
"In order for a trial to start, both the defense attorney and the prosecutor have to declare that they are ready; the court clerk then searches for a trial judge who is free and transfers the case, and jury selection can begin. Not long after Browder was indicted, an assistant district attorney sent the court a “Notice of Readiness,” stating that “the People are ready for trial.” The case was put on the calendar for possible trial on December 10th, but it did not start that day. On January 28, 2011, Browder’s two-hundred-and-fifty-eighth day in jail, he was brought back to the courthouse once again. This time, the prosecutor said, “The People are not ready. We are requesting one week.” The next court date set by the judge—March 9th—was not one week away but six. As it happened, Browder didn’t go to trial anytime that year. An index card in the court file explains:
June 23, 2011: People not ready, request 1 week.August 24, 2011: People not ready, request 1 day.November 4, 2011: People not ready, prosecutor on trial, request 2 weeks.December 2, 2011: Prosecutor on trial, request January 3rd.The Bronx courts are so clogged that when a lawyer asks for a one-week adjournment the next court date usually doesn’t happen for six weeks or more. As long as a prosecutor has filed a Notice of Readiness, however, delays caused by court congestion don’t count toward the number of days that are officially held to have elapsed. Every time a prosecutor stood before a judge in Browder’s case, requested a one-week adjournment, and got six weeks instead, this counted as only one week against the six-month deadline. Meanwhile, Browder remained on Rikers, where six weeks still felt like six weeks—and often much longer."
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if you read the article you see what happened, the kid wouldn't plea out. So he got beat by guards and they let gang bangers on him too. Nice country.
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and you all wonder why black folk pissed? 3 years for backpack theft? That was a jail slot that more than likely could have been taken up by multiple serious offenders.
and you all wonder why black folk pissed? 3 years for backpack theft? That was a jail slot that more than likely could have been taken up by multiple serious offenders.
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
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and you all wonder why black folk pissed? 3 years for backpack theft? That was a jail slot that more than likely could have been taken up by multiple serious offenders.
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
Stuart said:
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
But can you see how it could add to it? Specially when this is happening in an area that is predominately black\hispanic?
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Stuart said:
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
But can you see how it could add to it? Specially when this is happening in an area that is predominately black\hispanic?
But can you see how it could add to it? Specially when this is happening in an area that is predominately black\hispanic?
Because blacks and Hispanics commit an inordinate amount of crime. It is not right, that is to refuse anyone a speedier trial, but its not obviously racially motivated.
WSS
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But can you see how it could add to it? Specially when this is happening in an area that is predominately black\hispanic?
Because blacks and Hispanics commit an inordinate amount of crime. It is not right, that is to refuse anyone a speedier trial, but its not obviously racially motivated.
WSS
Because blacks and Hispanics commit an inordinate amount of crime. It is not right, that is to refuse anyone a speedier trial, but its not obviously racially motivated.
WSS
I don't think this incident is racially motivated, its just a huge local court issue but when it happens in an area that is predominately minority, you can at least see how it can be added to the narrative for people that blame the cops for being racially biased?
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I don't believe it was racially motivated either. I think he got lost with all the overloaded cases but they need to make some safeguards it does not happen again. Why didn't the prosecutor dismiss the charges after 6 months if the evidence was not there to take it to trial? If he could not afford an attorney why didn't the public defender help him?
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Because blacks and Hispanics commit an inordinate amount of crime. It is not right, that is to refuse anyone a speedier trial, but its not obviously racially motivated.
WSS
I don't think this incident is racially motivated, its just a huge local court issue but when it happens in an area that is predominately minority, you can at least see how it can be added to the narrative for people that blame the cops for being racially biased?
I most certainly can see why that happens. whether or not it has anything to do with race that's the narrative. There are too many people making money and headlines by tagging every incident with the term racism.I don't think this incident is racially motivated, its just a huge local court issue but when it happens in an area that is predominately minority, you can at least see how it can be added to the narrative for people that blame the cops for being racially biased?
And that's one reason the tension mounts in America.
WSS
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It was racially motivated in the sense that if it was a white kid or especially a white kid whose parents had money....would never have lasted 3 years.
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and you all wonder why black folk pissed? 3 years for backpack theft? That was a jail slot that more than likely could have been taken up by multiple serious offenders.
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
Stuart said:
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
Did you also read the part about him being beaten while he was in there, by guards and then they also allowed gang members to beat him? That "is" exactly what they've been talking about for years you impudent flaccid little muppet.
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It was racially motivated in the sense that if it was a white kid or especially a white kid whose parents had money....would never have lasted 3 years.
It was racially motivated in the sense that if it was a white kid or especially a white kid whose parents had money....would never have lasted 3 years.
If he had money he would have been out on bail, and still waiting for trial, they could not afford bail so he was waiting in jail, also he would have had a lawyer who was not a public defender with multiple clients but one more dedicated to him.
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It was racially motivated in the sense that if it was a white kid or especially a white kid whose parents had money....would never have lasted 3 years.
If he had money he would have been out on bail, and still waiting for trial, they could not afford bail so he was waiting in jail, also he would have had a lawyer who was not a public defender with multiple clients but one more dedicated to him.
If he had money he would have been out on bail, and still waiting for trial, they could not afford bail so he was waiting in jail, also he would have had a lawyer who was not a public defender with multiple clients but one more dedicated to him.
Possibly but we will assume that whatever money they had would only purchase the services of one of the cheapest attorneys in the city with no guarantee that he'd be any better then the public defender.
and according to The New Yorker story he'd been on probation so wouldn't have gotten the bail anyway, correct?
WSS
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If he had money he would have been out on bail, and still waiting for trial, they could not afford bail so he was waiting in jail, also he would have had a lawyer who was not a public defender with multiple clients but one more dedicated to him.
Possibly but we will assume that whatever money they had would only purchase the services of one of the cheapest attorneys in the city with no guarantee that he'd be any better then the public defender.
and according to The New Yorker story he'd been on probation so wouldn't have gotten the bail anyway, correct?
WSS
Possibly but we will assume that whatever money they had would only purchase the services of one of the cheapest attorneys in the city with no guarantee that he'd be any better then the public defender.
and according to The New Yorker story he'd been on probation so wouldn't have gotten the bail anyway, correct?
WSS
I was more going if he was a "especially a white kid whose parents had money" from clev.
From the article "But, because Browder was still on probation, the judge ordered him to be held and set bail at three thousand dollars. The amount was out of reach for his family, and soon Browder found himself aboard a Department of Correction bus."
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Possibly but we will assume that whatever money they had would only purchase the services of one of the cheapest attorneys in the city with no guarantee that he'd be any better then the public defender.
and according to The New Yorker story he'd been on probation so wouldn't have gotten the bail anyway, correct?
WSS
I was more going if he was a "especially a white kid whose parents had money" from clev.
From the article "But, because Browder was still on probation, the judge ordered him to be held and set bail at three thousand dollars. The amount was out of reach for his family, and soon Browder found himself aboard a Department of Correction bus."
I was more going if he was a "especially a white kid whose parents had money" from clev.
From the article "But, because Browder was still on probation, the judge ordered him to be held and set bail at three thousand dollars. The amount was out of reach for his family, and soon Browder found himself aboard a Department of Correction bus."
Ah I understand. Hard to fathom someone not being able to scrape up the 300 bucks for a bail bondsman but we do live in different worlds.
And while I certainly feel terrible for this kids ordeal do we imagine he did it or not?
WSS
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I was more going if he was a "especially a white kid whose parents had money" from clev.
From the article "But, because Browder was still on probation, the judge ordered him to be held and set bail at three thousand dollars. The amount was out of reach for his family, and soon Browder found himself aboard a Department of Correction bus."
Ah I understand. Hard to fathom someone not being able to scrape up the 300 bucks for a bail bondsman but we do live in different worlds.
And while I certainly feel terrible for this kids ordeal do we imagine he did it or not?
WSS
Ah I understand. Hard to fathom someone not being able to scrape up the 300 bucks for a bail bondsman but we do live in different worlds.
And while I certainly feel terrible for this kids ordeal do we imagine he did it or not?
WSS
The evidence according to article is flimsy at best, the only "witness or evidence" was the victim saying it was him. No idea if the 2 knew each other outside of this act or not. Plus if the prosecutor had a good\decent case it would have likely went to trial quicker.
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I was more going if he was a "especially a white kid whose parents had money" from clev.
From the article "But, because Browder was still on probation, the judge ordered him to be held and set bail at three thousand dollars. The amount was out of reach for his family, and soon Browder found himself aboard a Department of Correction bus."
Ah I understand. Hard to fathom someone not being able to scrape up the 300 bucks for a bail bondsman but we do live in different worlds.
And while I certainly feel terrible for this kids ordeal do we imagine he did it or not?
WSS
Ah I understand. Hard to fathom someone not being able to scrape up the 300 bucks for a bail bondsman but we do live in different worlds.
And while I certainly feel terrible for this kids ordeal do we imagine he did it or not?
WSS
hard to imagine if he did it that he wouldn't have pleaded out to simple backpack theft. It sounds like the kid took a principled stand and said no, I didn't do this shit and i'm not gonna plead out. And for that he got his ass beat.
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Ah I understand. Hard to fathom someone not being able to scrape up the 300 bucks for a bail bondsman but we do live in different worlds.
And while I certainly feel terrible for this kids ordeal do we imagine he did it or not?
WSS
hard to imagine if he did it that he wouldn't have pleaded out to simple backpack theft. It sounds like the kid took a principled stand and said no, I didn't do this shit and i'm not gonna plead out. And for that he got his ass beat.
hard to imagine if he did it that he wouldn't have pleaded out to simple backpack theft. It sounds like the kid took a principled stand and said no, I didn't do this shit and i'm not gonna plead out. And for that he got his ass beat.
Or he suspected they couldn't prove anything and since he was on probation understood the conviction for robbery was probably going to carry a pretty stiff sentence decided to roll the dice with a trial, not understanding I'll slowly the wheels of justice roll over their clients.
Also I thought the supposedly victims story was bogus, who the fuck carries 700 bucks in your backpack through the hood.
Remember he'd been in trouble before even though the article only went into one issue.
But I'm not implying that I don't think his treatment was fucked up beyond belief.
WSS
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hard to imagine if he did it that he wouldn't have pleaded out to simple backpack theft. It sounds like the kid took a principled stand and said no, I didn't do this shit and i'm not gonna plead out. And for that he got his ass beat.
Or he suspected they couldn't prove anything and since he was on probation understood the conviction for robbery was probably going to carry a pretty stiff sentence decided to roll the dice with a trial, not understanding I'll slowly the wheels of justice roll over their clients.
Also I thought the supposedly victims story was bogus, who the fuck carries 700 bucks in your backpack through the hood.
Remember he'd been in trouble before even though the article only went into one issue.
But I'm not implying that I don't think his treatment was fucked up beyond belief.
WSS
Or he suspected they couldn't prove anything and since he was on probation understood the conviction for robbery was probably going to carry a pretty stiff sentence decided to roll the dice with a trial, not understanding I'll slowly the wheels of justice roll over their clients.
Also I thought the supposedly victims story was bogus, who the fuck carries 700 bucks in your backpack through the hood.
Remember he'd been in trouble before even though the article only went into one issue.
But I'm not implying that I don't think his treatment was fucked up beyond belief.
WSS
I think they offered him a plea out of that, not 100% sure. And yeah the whole story didn't sound right from the beginning, which he probably understood cause nothing like that remotely happened and he wasn't gonna take that hit.
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Stuart said:
Um no Cleve, no one is "wondering" why black folk are pissed. How liberal of you to bring race into the issue.
Never realized that blacks being held in jail for years without being granted the right to a speedy trial is what all the violence and looting was about.
Did you also read the part about him being beaten while he was in there, by guards and then they also allowed gang members to beat him? That "is" exactly what they've been talking about for years you impudent flaccid little muppet.
Did you also read the part about him being beaten while he was in there, by guards and then they also allowed gang members to beat him? That "is" exactly what they've been talking about for years you impudent flaccid little muppet.
Relax Cleve. Just checking. You know very well how you folks always like to inject racism into everything. Glad you understand that there probably have been whites beaten and unjustly held as well.
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Why would the state EVER be allowed to delay a trial for not being ready? The Constitution clearly states that citizens have the right to a speedy trial. It's not the fault of the accused that the prosecutors werent ready, and it is the responsibility of the state to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
There is simply no excuse for a trial to be delayed because the prosecution isn't ready.
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