Terrelle Pryor Claimed By Browns
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Zombo said:
You don't think Manziel is a sharp guy? I do.
You don't think Pryor is not so smart? I do.
You can tell just by listening to them talk. Manziel has done a lot of things that 21 year guys with addiction problems tend to do, but I don't know anybody accusing him of being dumb, the guy seems pretty quick and articulate actually.
I'm not a big wonderlic guy but Manziel had a 32 and Pryor had a 7 ... that's got to tell you something.
If I'm looking at them both as prospects out of college, I'd say Manziel is more cerebral and a better passer in general, which probably accounts for where they were drafted.
Zombo
Wonderlic is a decent measure of knowledge, not so much mental acuity. Unfortunately, mental acuity, not knowledge, is much, much more important to an NFL QB.
For the record, Pryor took the test the next day and scored a 22. I have a feeling his 7 was more along the lines of "why the fuck should I have to do this?" than "I'm too dumb to understand".
I think Manziel is quite sharp, actually. He's eloquent enough to stand in front of cameras and dig himself out of the holes he's dug himself and make me still like him...that's saying something.
I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.
I could find about 5 examples or posters calling Manziel stupid within the last 6 months or so. I know that because I already did the search. The point is, knowledge is relative and hard to infer from press conferences and language. Nor does it equate NFL success. Sharpness, concentration, flexibility - those are much more influential in a player's growth.
As for their draft position, Pryor would have likely been a second round pick had he not been suspended and declared for the normal draft; once QB's start rolling off the board teams get all antsy in their pantsy and take guys where they shouldn't go (see: Weeden, Brandon). Not as high as Manziel, but not nearly a giant differential in placement.
All things equal, I'd probably rate Manziel higher than Pryor based solely off of their college production, but Pryor is certainly right behind him based off of measurables, potential and athletic ability.
Unfortunately, I think that Manziel's career may be similar to Pryor's, when all is said and done.
I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.
Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.
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If you're calling out a guy on his mental performance, maybe don't misspell the insult.
DC comics aficionados would be upset.
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That's not the TE depth chart of a team that is going to emphasize the run.
Fair enough, maybe substitute Dray for Barnidge.
However, I don't necessarily agree with a stable of blocking TE's as an indicator of a run heavy team. It seems the key tenet of Flip's offensive philosophy (and this entire regime) is unpredictability and versatility. Just like on defense, I think we're going to have guys lined up everywhere, trying different things, so that we don't fall into familiar patterns. I think we'll have one, maybe two Y TE's and then 2 or 3 F TE's/ H-backs.
I don't think we'll see a majority of overloaded or heavy sets with two big body TE's trotting out there. I think we'll see a heavy dose of 2 TE sets featuring a blocker and a receiving threat in some fashion.
F - Johnson, Housler and Pryor
Y - Barnidge, Telfer, maybe Dray
Of these guys:
- Pryor's versatility is apparent in that he is a QB convert, he's a large body and he's athletic - so he can be beneficial in goal line situations/ trick plays.
- Housler's versatility is that he's a big body who can be effective at block and release routes and chip blocking out of the backfield (although it's not his strength) and he's athletic enough to be a receiving TE.
- Johnson is a Marcel Reece-type FB/RB/TE. I think he'll be lined up everywhere - in the backfield, on the line, flexed out and pulled in motion.
- Barnidge is slightly more of a receiver and less of a blocker, but is efficient enough at blocking to contribute.
- Dray is more of a blocker and less of a receiver, but is efficient enough at receiving to contribute.
- Telfer is a pure blocker who needs to add some size to be completely effective.
Of these guys, only Pryor isn't going to be used as a blocker in some fashion, but that's because I see him as more of a WR/TE than a TE/FB.
We have 5 solid offensive linemen. We have two TE's who are primarily blockers (Telfer, Johnson) . We have one TE who is about half and half blocker and short yardage receiver (Barnidge) . We have one TE who is more of a receiver than blocker, but can occasionally chip or release (Housler). And we have one TE who is a pure receiver (Pryor).
To me, that seems like we're set up to do anything that we really want.
Fair enough, maybe substitute Dray for Barnidge.
However, I don't necessarily agree with a stable of blocking TE's as an indicator of a run heavy team. It seems the key tenet of Flip's offensive philosophy (and this entire regime) is unpredictability and versatility.
F - Johnson, Housler and Pryor
Y - Barnidge, Telfer, maybe Dray
To me, that seems like we're set up to do anything that we really want.
But not to do all things equally well...
Last year we were most effective running out of a single-back, 2-TE set... and for the most part those 2-TEs were Dray and Barnidge. I do not see that changing.
Tefler is the pick that I still scratch my head over. Not simply unproductive receiving, he has a significant injury history... ankle, knee, foot. Bibbs, who is a prime PS candidate, is a more intriguing long-term prospect to my eye.
At 231 Johnson (now listed at FB)... as he should be... is going to need a head of steam to move anyone, so his effectiveness blocking on the line or as a wing is questionable.
Housler... yes, he busts the cookie-cutter mold, as Cam did last year, and that's a good thing. But that's about all he has in common with Cam. I'm not spending hope on a 6th year miracle... that inventory is reserved for our veteran QB.
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I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.
Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.
I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.
Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
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Gronk is an idiot
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I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.
Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
I agree JFF seems a smarter guy than Pryor, but if smarts were all it took then Stephen Hawking would be playing QB.....but somehow I thinks he lacks a bit of the athleticism needed for the position.
Fair to say?
though...in college he was on the Oxford rowing team...as coxswain.
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I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.
Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
The "any player from the South" is just the fourth item in that list, it wasn't meant to be a summation of the previously listed people.
Brett Favre is literally an example of poor elocution by public figures in college public speaking courses, hence my inclusion of him in the list. Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback. My point is that a lot of people are poor speakers or "sound dumb", but that is no reflection on their aptitude in their chosen fields.
Case in point, you don't think Brett Favre sounds stupid, you think that Pryor does. They both scored 22's on the Wonderlic. One is a Hall of Fame QB, the other is a garbage QB. Once again, there's no correlation whatsoever between Wonderlic scores and NFL production, so the whole "Manziel sounds smarter, so he'll be a better quarterback" is a complete fallacy.
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Zombo said:
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
The "any player from the South" is just the fourth item in that list, it wasn't meant to be a summation of the previously listed people.
Brett Favre is literally an example of poor elocution by public figures in college public speaking courses, hence my inclusion of him in the list. Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback. My point is that a lot of people are poor speakers or "sound dumb", but that is no reflection on their aptitude in their chosen fields.
Case in point, you don't think Brett Favre sounds stupid, you think that Pryor does. They both scored 22's on the Wonderlic. One is a Hall of Fame QB, the other is a garbage QB. Once again, there's no correlation whatsoever between Wonderlic scores and NFL production, so the whole "Manziel sounds smarter, so he'll be a better quarterback" is a complete fallacy.
Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback.
I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.
And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.
Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.
So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.
A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.
Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.
It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"
So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.
Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.
Zombo
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Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback.
I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.
And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.
Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.
So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.
A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.
Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.
It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"
So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.
Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.
And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.
Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.
So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.
A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.
Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.
It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"
So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.
Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.
Zombo
Fair enough.
Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.
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Zombo said:
I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.
And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.
Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.
So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.
A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.
Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.
It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"
So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.
Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.
Zombo
Fair enough.
Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.
Fair enough.
Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.
Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?
Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.
I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
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Zombo said:
Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.
I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.
Zombo
I agree JFF seems a smarter guy than Pryor, but if smarts were all it took then Stephen Hawking would be playing QB.....but somehow I thinks he lacks a bit of the athleticism needed for the position.
Fair to say?
though...in college he was on the Oxford rowing team...as coxswain.
I agree JFF seems a smarter guy than Pryor, but if smarts were all it took then Stephen Hawking would be playing QB.....but somehow I thinks he lacks a bit of the athleticism needed for the position.
Fair to say?
though...in college he was on the Oxford rowing team...as coxswain.
From Shelton Cooper and the rest of the Braineac staff from The Big Bang Theory. Bozinga D Bone Bozinga on prober usage of Braineac. (Screw spell check).
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Fair enough.
Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.
Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?
Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.
I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
Zombo said:
Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?
Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.
I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
Mike H and Stockton are always fan favorites.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Zombo said:
Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?
Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.
I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
Mike H and Stockton are always fan favorites.
Mike H and Stockton are always fan favorites.
yikes....
Though Id bet Stockton got a 49 on the wonderlick....HA!
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Zombo said:
Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?
Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.
I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
Mike H and Stockton are always fan favorites.
Mike H and Stockton are always fan favorites.
Ya, I don't know if Mike H. is interested in coming back and I don't know if we should open that whole can of worms called Retard again ... although with Brian Hoyer gone, what would he talk about?
Zombo
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Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback.
I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.
And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.
Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.
So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.
A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.
Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.
It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"
So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.
Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.
And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.
Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.
So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.
A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.
Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.
It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"
So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.
Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.
Zombo
I always said that if you could have combined the Miami boys traits: Bernie's brains with Vinny's body, you would have had the greatest QB in history. Alas, Bernie's body and arm could not hold up....and Vinny's great arm and athleticism just wasn't matched with a great intellect.
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Fair enough.
Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.
Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?
Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.
I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
Zombo said:
Naberius_Cerbera
upper lip
ManzielSucks
StocktonShorts
Mike H
Demoted
Orange85
and larryfine.
those dudes are schmuppets compared to the guys in the political forum. although you get the same result.
nothing.
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