The Unofficial... Off-Season... O-line Thread
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This right here. Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Can you say Terrelle Pryor?
Our oline situation is pretty damn awesome. We have 3 pro bowlers on the left side of the line, a top 10 guard on the right and another upper tier tackle on the right. Name me the last time the Browns had, across the board, this much talent up front. It's been a while.
Last year......but the whole thing went south with Mack's injury. His replacement was shite and the whole OLine suffered.
When the run game picks up where it left off, there will be a ton of high percentage throws and calculated deep shots that will open up for McCown.
And, maybe, unlike under Shanahan, this new OC Flip will actually throw some passes to his RBs......and hopefully a guy like Duke Johnson can play like Greg Pruitt.
This right here. Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Can you say Terrelle Pryor?
Our oline situation is pretty damn awesome. We have 3 pro bowlers on the left side of the line, a top 10 guard on the right and another upper tier tackle on the right. Name me the last time the Browns had, across the board, this much talent up front. It's been a while.
Last year......but the whole thing went south with Mack's injury. His replacement was shite and the whole OLine suffered.
When the run game picks up where it left off, there will be a ton of high percentage throws and calculated deep shots that will open up for McCown.
And, maybe, unlike under Shanahan, this new OC Flip will actually throw some passes to his RBs......and hopefully a guy like Duke Johnson can play like Greg Pruitt.
Replace Pryor with Hartline and I agree with your statement.
As for Macks injury, we now have an upper tier replacement in Greco. Thus Cam can move in at RG.
Flip has expressly said he's getting his backs involved, which I'm all in agreement for. I can't begin to stress how difficult it can be as a linebacker
to track a back and then make an open field stop, more specifically after there's been an assignment change from motion.
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This right here. Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Can you say Terrelle Pryor?
Our oline situation is pretty damn awesome. We have 3 pro bowlers on the left side of the line, a top 10 guard on the right and another upper tier tackle on the right. Name me the last time the Browns had, across the board, this much talent up front. It's been a while.
Last year......but the whole thing went south with Mack's injury. His replacement was shite and the whole OLine suffered.
When the run game picks up where it left off, there will be a ton of high percentage throws and calculated deep shots that will open up for McCown.
And, maybe, unlike under Shanahan, this new OC Flip will actually throw some passes to his RBs......and hopefully a guy like Duke Johnson can play like Greg Pruitt.
Replace Pryor with Hartline and I agree with your statement.
As for Macks injury, we now have an upper tier replacement in Greco. Thus Cam can move in at RG.
Flip has expressly said he's getting his backs involved, which I'm all in agreement for. I can't begin to stress how difficult it can be as a linebacker
to track a back and then make an open field stop, more specifically after there's been an assignment change from motion.
Replace Pryor with Hartline and I agree with your statement.
Hartline isn't all that "tall to shield a defender away from him" is he?
As for Macks injury, we now have an upper tier replacement in Greco. Thus Cam can move in at RG.
Definitely....or at least hopefully, an upgrade for sure.
Flip has expressly said he's getting his backs involved, which I'm all in agreement for. I can't begin to stress how difficult it can be as a linebacker
to track a back and then make an open field stop, more specifically after there's been an assignment change from motion.
The Duker should be supreme at this.
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Schwartz has a tough job. He plays right tackle opposite arguably the best LT in the
entire NFL. So the major pass rushers have to go to his side to have much of a chance
to stop plays. He's had his struggles, but he's also played well.
the other problem was the lack of receivers who can get off the line and get open quickly,
big enough to see on slants. I think that problem is fixed. Hoyer had to roll out so often
defenses started going out to where he was going in the roll out. Not good.
I can't wait til this offense take the field. The whole team. I don't see major weaknesses
in the first and second string talent like before. And I don't really care that we didn't get
a "superstar" qb. We know the left side of the excellent oline... my guess is, that Cam-Schwartz
sounds better than Greco-Cam. Maybe Schwartz had the "sophomore blues". I wouldn't discount
him staying at RT. With the upgrade of talent, and a qb with a stronger zip on the ball, more experience
starting,... Greco's experience is still worth it's weight in gold if Cam isn't quite ready to start.
But he might be ready. Cool situation. It will help that Duke is going to terrorize defenses, imho.
This right here. Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Our oline situation is pretty damn awesome. We have 3 pro bowlers on the left side of the line, a top 10 guard on the right and another upper tier tackle on the right. Name me the last time the Browns had, across the board, this much talent up front. It's been a while.
When the run game picks up where it left off, there will be a ton of high percentage throws and calculated deep shots that will open up for McCown.
Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Hartline isn't all that "tall to shield a defender away from him" is he?
In context with Tiamat63's statement he is.....our "small, shifty, slot receivers are 5-7" and 5-8".....so thats a 6"+ difference.....
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Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Hartline isn't all that "tall to shield a defender away from him" is he?
In context with Tiamat63's statement he is.....our "small, shifty, slot receivers are 5-7" and 5-8".....so thats a 6"+ difference.....
Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Hartline isn't all that "tall to shield a defender away from him" is he?
In context with Tiamat63's statement he is.....our "small, shifty, slot receivers are 5-7" and 5-8".....so thats a 6"+ difference.....
How tall is Hartline?
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When you're 5'10- 11 going against a 6'2 receiver, believe me it makes a difference.
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Bito didnt play there, but is the only other true OT on the team, so he would have been the logical back up last season. In re to playing RT, I think they feel he's a great guard, but would only be average at tackle.....plus...if he played RT, then we'd only have about the same level of play at that position, while having a huge drop off at LG......(cause, then, who would play there?)....
Ha!.....poor Mitchell Schwartz....never missed a single play in his whole career....ranked in the top 1/2 of the league.....yet everyone wants him to be replaced......
... and undeniably the weakest link compared to our other starting four. Hey! Someone has to be... but Mitch always has had Z's love to see him through.
Exactly right on Bito... he was an easy call last year. Bito's combination of athleticism and technique rocketed him to third place behind Joe and Mack. The only thing he lacks is height and reach to be a great LT... make that height as surprisingly Joe lacks the "required" arm length as well... lol...
Player .......... Ht / Arm Length / 3-cone / Shuttle
Joe Thomas .. : 6'6.5 / 32-1/2 / 7.95 / 4.84 https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=joel+bitonio+combine+results&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSNF_en&gws_rd=ssl#q=joe+thomas+nfl+combine+results+arm+length
Joel Bitonio .... : 6'4.2 / 33-7/8 / 7.37 / 4.44 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/joel-bitonio?id=2543737
Cam Eving ..... : 6'5.4 / 34-1/8 / 7.48 / 4.63 http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/cameron-erving?id=2552240
Mitch Schwartz: 6'5.3 / 33-1/2 / 7.86 / 4.87 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mitchell-schwartz?id=2532945
Michael Bowie : 6'4.5 / 31-1/2 / 8.06 / 4.84 http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90268&draftyear=2013&genpos=ot
Like I said, Cam makes it more interesting this year.
... and undeniably the weakest link compared to our other starting four. Hey! Someone has to be... but Mitch always has had Z's love to see him through.
Exactly right on Bito... he was an easy call last year. Bito's combination of athleticism and technique rocketed him to third place behind Joe and Mack. The only thing he lacks is height and reach to be a great LT... make that height as surprisingly Joe lacks the "required" arm length as well... lol...
Player .......... Ht / Arm Length / 3-cone / Shuttle
Joe Thomas .. : 6'6.5 / 32-1/2 / 7.95 / 4.84 https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=ie7&q=joel+bitonio+combine+results&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7TSNF_en&gws_rd=ssl#q=joe+thomas+nfl+combine+results+arm+length
Joel Bitonio .... : 6'4.2 / 33-7/8 / 7.37 / 4.44 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/joel-bitonio?id=2543737
Cam Eving ..... : 6'5.4 / 34-1/8 / 7.48 / 4.63 http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/cameron-erving?id=2552240
Mitch Schwartz: 6'5.3 / 33-1/2 / 7.86 / 4.87 http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/mitchell-schwartz?id=2532945
Michael Bowie : 6'4.5 / 31-1/2 / 8.06 / 4.84 http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90268&draftyear=2013&genpos=ot
Like I said, Cam makes it more interesting this year.
Hmmm......Cams 2 arms are longer than Hawkins and Gabe are tall.....(probably weigh about the same too)....HA!
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quicky little o-line spot from Browns.com.....nothing much new here.....none the less, here it is for those who need a few crumbs(like me)...
-
This right here. Having small, shifty, slot receivers is cool and all - but a big bodied pass catcher that can use a tall frame to shield the defender away is a damn nice thing to have.
Can you say Terrelle Pryor?
Our oline situation is pretty damn awesome. We have 3 pro bowlers on the left side of the line, a top 10 guard on the right and another upper tier tackle on the right. Name me the last time the Browns had, across the board, this much talent up front. It's been a while.
Last year......but the whole thing went south with Mack's injury. His replacement was shite and the whole OLine suffered.
When the run game picks up where it left off, there will be a ton of high percentage throws and calculated deep shots that will open up for McCown.
And, maybe, unlike under Shanahan, this new OC Flip will actually throw some passes to his RBs......and hopefully a guy like Duke Johnson can play like Greg Pruitt.
Replace Pryor with Hartline and I agree with your statement.
As for Macks injury, we now have an upper tier replacement in Greco. Thus Cam can move in at RG.
Flip has expressly said he's getting his backs involved, which I'm all in agreement for. I can't begin to stress how difficult it can be as a linebacker
to track a back and then make an open field stop, more specifically after there's been an assignment change from motion.
Replace Pryor with Hartline and I agree with your statement.
As for Macks injury, we now have an upper tier replacement in Greco. Thus Cam can move in at RG.
Flip has expressly said he's getting his backs involved, which I'm all in agreement for. I can't begin to stress how difficult it can be as a linebacker
to track a back and then make an open field stop, more specifically after there's been an assignment change from motion.
That Greco replacement idea at Center is a comfort IF an inexperienced guy is capable of beating him out at RG especially when he's coming off the best football of his career. Some of these 340 pound DTs excel at getting up underneath taller lankier guys like McQuistan, who remained better suited to face taller and lighter guys coming off the edge than what we needed from him. We thought he could be used interchangeably here and learned the hard way it wasn't as possible here as it was for a Superbowl Champion.
I'm very intrigued and excited about Erving; but I'm not as confident in how immediately ready he is for that fate. I say that in the sense of sizing up the horse for the race - looks like he needs more muscle, power and explosion to go with his athletic feet and agility. I see him as a red shirt guy; BUT I'm wrong a lot when I put on my football psychic hat. I just hope people don't panic or call him a bust if he's not starting right away. Sometimes that's a good thing. Greco only started something like 4 games filling in for injury the 3 years he was in St Louis. The first year he was in Cleveland, if we started him just once we lost a conditional 4th or 5th round pick so he didn't start once that year. When he did start for us - he left a lot to be desired before he finally showed up about 20 pounds lighter to achieve the highest rankings he's had at OG in 2014. Erving shouldn't take that long; but the bigger point is success isn't always immediate. In particular, I'm thinking of Paul Farren who eventually started at 3 different positions here after his late round draft pick red shirted him early. He was a guy that loved football so his tireless work ethic and commitment would persevere for him/us. He was a pretty good LT on a playoff team here which says all it has to about what the right innerchest can accomplish when we have the right setup here. Erving kind of reminds me of him. As for the setting, the strength and conditioning coaches will pack that frame will more power, size and explosion necessary for giddy up and get after it in the trenches.
I'm looking forward to seeing what a well healed Michael Bowie brings to the table. He started at 3 different positions on Seattle's Superbowl Championship running game. The roster for the Browns in Pro Football Weekly Preview 2015 lists him at only 23 years of age. Therefore, he's young and experienced - how cool is that?
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Good post Flugel...Im down with the Erving on the bench part too. We needed immediate depth and he fills that role just fine from the bench. The beauty is that once he develops and becomes the starter, we have "upgraded" at a position that is now filled by a player currently ranked 6th at his position.....
A nice steak is great.....fillet mignon...even better
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quicky little o-line spot from Browns.com.....nothing much new here.....none the less, here it is for those who need a few crumbs(like me)...
quicky little o-line spot from Browns.com.....nothing much new here.....none the less, here it is for those who need a few crumbs(like me)...
Greco "good"; Schwartz "amazing"??? That part was new...
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Update from Camp...
Day 5 from http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/8/4/9096469/cleveland-browns-training-camp-report-day-5
4. A Peek at the Offensive Line:
If things have been going hot for NT Danny Shelton, they haven't been so hot for the team's other first-round pick, OL Cameron Erving. The Browns continue using Erving at right guard with the second-team offense. He isn't struggling in camp by any means, but his primary competition right now is RG John Greco, and there haven't been any signs of a change coming with the first-team offensive line. My projection right now is that Erving starts the season as a backup, but would be the first player to enter the game is an injury should occur.
Here is what offensive line coach Andy Moeller said about Greco after practice:
"Last year, John did a great job for us. John really exceeded my expectations a year ago. He has played well this fall. He is a competitive guy. He is a veteran. He knows how to play. He is smart. John is obviously an important guy, and I like the way he has played so far."
Moeller also talked about OL Michael Bowie, who has lost 40 pounds since February. Moeller praised his effort to get in shape, but also noted that he needs to be more consistent. The language Moeller used didn't seem to indicate that Bowie is any form of a threat to Mitchell Schwartz' starting job this camp.
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turned on WKNR yesterday and they were talking to someone about OL......the guy was uber intelligent and spoke so eloquently and with a thorough knowledge of the OL, their assignments and gave a good assessment of the players....and I was thinking this HAS to be Andy Moeller or DeLione.....but it wasnt....it was Mitchell Schwartz
Very impressive to hear him speak.....sounds like he really has a grip on the game and his role with the team......and a great sense of humor about being the worst guy on the best line.....wish I had a link to post, cause it was a great interview....
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Doesn't an offensive lineman have a lot more to learn than a defensive lineman?
I don't get the idea that Irving isn't a big a talent as Shelton just because he hasn't stepped
in and locked up a starting postion on the oline. Maybe it's just me.....
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Schwartz is known as the oracle, for his smarts, I believe?
could be....I always hear how smart our O line guys are, though wasnt aware it was Schwartz.....
Ive only heard him a few times commenting after games, as its rare that he speaks(usually Thomas or Mack)....but he sounds like a freaking brain surgeon...ha!
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