BREAKING: 4 Marines killed in Tennessee by a fucking Muslim

[Browns149]

@calfoxwc said:

gun free zones were a stupidass political ploy.

And innocent people are getting murdered in soft targets.

Wait for it - the pres will probably politicize this shooting by blaming

our 2nd Amendment and all us gun owners for it.

Which, was the point of his and Holder's "Fast and Furious" scandal.

I take my CCW and worry about anything else that happens

I also carry open

[gftChris]

How did this guy manage to get in with a gun? I mean sure, a strip mall recruitment centre you can't have super strict entrances, but a naval base? And even so - it's not like he had a small pistol, he had "something like" an AK47.

I worry that very soon we're going to reach a tipping point in the relationship between 'generic' muslims and the western world, where they are held accountable for the actions of nutjobs like this guy, and we'll get vigilantes roaming around like post-9/11.

That being said, we also need to consider how a guy who was raised in the US - born in Jordan but lived in the US since a small child - was so easily manipulated in to committing acts like these. You can't stop people going to the middle east, even if you wanted to. But when you get people hearing things like "the western devil will always want to kill all muslims and wipe us from the face of the planet" and *believing* it, you can see the inevitable path.

I'm not sure how, but just in case anyone somehow thinks I'm defending this attack or others like it, I'm not. Not even a little bit. No matter the problem, this isn't the solution, and we need to eradicate the kind of people that are brainwashing people like this guy in to committing these acts.

[MLD Woody]

Look at some posts in this thread. That tipping point already happened for some

[StinkHole]

@gftchris said:

That being said, we also need to consider how a guy who was raised in the US - born in Jordan but lived in the US since a small child - was so easily manipulated in to committing acts like these. You can't stop people going to the middle east, even if you wanted to. But when you get people hearing things like "the western devil will always want to kill all muslims and wipe us from the face of the planet" and *believing* it, you can see the inevitable path.

Its more that just "hearing" about it, hate is being taught. Right here in America.

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/american-muslim-children-taught-hate#

Unless there is a more concerted and noticeable effort by all Muslims to put an end to this violence, I will continue to maintain this view about "good Muslims"....

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@gftchris said:

How did this guy manage to get in with a gun? I mean sure, a strip mall recruitment centre you can't have super strict entrances, but a naval base? And even so - it's not like he had a small pistol, he had "something like" an AK47.

I worry that very soon we're going to reach a tipping point in the relationship between 'generic' muslims and the western world, where they are held accountable for the actions of nutjobs like this guy, and we'll get vigilantes roaming around like post-9/11.

That being said, we also need to consider how a guy who was raised in the US - born in Jordan but lived in the US since a small child - was so easily manipulated in to committing acts like these. You can't stop people going to the middle east, even if you wanted to. But when you get people hearing things like "the western devil will always want to kill all muslims and wipe us from the face of the planet" and *believing* it, you can see the inevitable path.

I'm not sure how, but just in case anyone somehow thinks I'm defending this attack or others like it, I'm not. Not even a little bit. No matter the problem, this isn't the solution, and we need to eradicate the kind of people that are brainwashing people like this guy in to committing these acts.

It wasn't a 'base'. It was a Naval/Marine Corps Reserve Center, which is just a building, sometimes with a gate and a private unarmed security (civilian) guard.

[gftChris]

Right, I didn't say hearing about, I said hearing. As in, someone is speaking to them and they're hearing it. Misunderstanding I guess.

Anyway, these people are hearing this in the mosque, or the internet or wherever. Why aren't they saying "hang on, that doesn't really sound right, most americans [or other] I know are good people and have never been anything but nice to me?"

I guess most of them are, and I guess most will dismiss those views for the nonsense they are. But a few aren't, and why not? Are we happy to just say "well they're mentally unstable" or whatever? Happy to allow these things to keep happening? I know I'm not. And this is why I maintain that just playing terrorist whack-a-mole and bombing whichever is the latest place that has some terrorists isn't the long term solution.

[gftChris]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

It wasn't a 'base'. It was a Naval/Marine Corps Reserve Center, which is just a building, sometimes with a gate and a private unarmed security (civilian) guard.

Thanks for the clarification. So the question remains, why no armed security, why so easy for this guy to wander in off the streets with a machine gun and start 'spraying bullets'?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@gftchris said:

Thanks for the clarification. So the question remains, why no armed security, why so easy for this guy to wander in off the streets with a machine gun and start 'spraying bullets'?

From what I understand he was driving a rental car and crashed through the gate and just started shooting. I'm sure we'll find out more as the investigation continues. I wonder if they (the Obama Homeland Security) will classify this as terrorism?

[Westside Steve]

@gftchris said:

Right, I didn't say hearing about, I said hearing. As in, someone is speaking to them and they're hearing it. Misunderstanding I guess.

Anyway, these people are hearing this in the mosque, or the internet or wherever. Why aren't they saying "hang on, that doesn't really sound right, most americans [or other] I know are good people and have never been anything but nice to me?"

I guess most of them are, and I guess most will dismiss those views for the nonsense they are. But a few aren't, and why not? Are we happy to just say "well they're mentally unstable" or whatever? Happy to allow these things to keep happening? I know I'm not. And this is why I maintain that just playing terrorist whack-a-mole and bombing whichever is the latest place that has some terrorists isn't the long term solution.

I guess that's a valid point but might be counterproductive in that behaving this way and being rewarded for it through negotiation or concession or whatever it is... You understand, right?

WSS

[gftChris]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

From what I understand he was driving a rental car and crashed through the gate and just started shooting. I'm sure we'll find out more as the investigation continues. I wonder if they (the Obama Homeland Security) will classify this as terrorism?

Most likely, yes.

[gftChris]

@westside-steve said:

I guess that's a valid point but might be counterproductive in that behaving this way and being rewarded for it through negotiation or concession or whatever it is... You understand, right?

WSS

Sure, it's not easy to take the high road, turn the other cheek etc. This is why these things need to be led, at least in part, by normal work-a-day muslims. And to be fair I've seen some of it happening, though I guess not enough.

[The Cysko Kid]

@baconhound said:

I think it's very similar to the Inquisition. There are individuals who have power and keep power by filling those wanting with an enemy, non-believers, and manipulate text to support their agenda. It's sad that people when wanting they will cling to anything that gives them hope. I continue to hope that the silent Muslims who abhor this type of action and agenda become vocal before we see a polarizing global assault. There are already movements in Western Europe to segregate or expel Muslims. Global conflict is a lose/lose situation in most instances. Many WWII Veterans who had every right to be proud and tell the stories of their experiences remain very quiet not wanting to discuss.

My grandfather was at iwo jima and my uncle was in Vietnam. Neither would ever speak of what they saw.

[The Cysko Kid]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

It wasn't a 'base'. It was a Naval/Marine Corps Reserve Center, which is just a building, sometimes with a gate and a private unarmed security (civilian) guard.

The final two years I was in the service was at the Youngstown air reserve station and the gate was manned by armed m.p.s

[The Cysko Kid]

It was also a full (although small) base. But you're correct. ..many reserve stations, like the marine station in brookpark, are just some building.

[StinkHole]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

From what I understand he was driving a rental car and crashed through the gate and just started shooting. I'm sure we'll find out more as the investigation continues. I wonder if they (the Obama Homeland Security) will classify this as terrorism?

Yes because "workplace violence" won't work in this time. See Ft. Hood.

[Westside Steve]

@gftchris said:

Sure, it's not easy to take the high road, turn the other cheek etc. This is why these things need to be led, at least in part, by normal work-a-day muslims. And to be fair I've seen some of it happening, though I guess not enough.

Yes it would be great if they did.

Still everyday Muslims might face the same repercussions as everyday blacks if they speak out against the bad elements among their people.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@the-cysko-kid said:

The final two years I was in the service was at the Youngstown air reserve station and the gate was manned by armed m.p.s

Youngstown is a mini base. Most reserve centers are just buildings.

[OldBrownsFan]

I came to the realization many years ago the real problem is the Koran itself. I was watching a show on television with moderate Muslims who I was initially very impressed with and they were condemning terrorism and violence but when they were confronted with the many verses in the Koran on killing infidels they refused to say it was wrong. No doubt it may have been fear for their own safety but that is when I saw the real problem.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

[Westside Steve]

Was Muhammad a warrior? Did he lead people in the battle? I seriously don't know, I know they call him a prophet.

Also there is nothing like the New Testament in the Quran correct?

In other words something to defuse the violence etc in the older texts.

WSS

[gftChris]

@westside-steve said:

Was Muhammad a warrior? Did he lead people in the battle? I seriously don't know, I know they call him a prophet.

Also there is nothing like the New Testament in the Quran correct?

In other words something to defuse the violence etc in the older texts.

WSS

I believe he was military in some capacity, though not sure what.