Victorious Secrets
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one secret player got no clue on. DL Detory Slater we stole off waivers (6-2-15) from Seattle before they could move him to practice squad off IR. Is he in the mix with both Wynn's? Is Kitchen only a DT, you add Shelton and Taylor around him that wall is not moving IMO?
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Good stuff.... if a little rose-tinted... says the guy who was first to put us at 11-5 in the "record" thread...
We both see improvement in nearly every area... make that potential improvement. If there's a problem with our shared vision it's that the key area on each side of the ball, QB and LB Corps, is where the greatest questions lay.
Fortunately we don't have long to wait for answers.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well thought out and inspiring post. One of the best things I have ever read on the internet.
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Good stuff.... if a little rose-tinted... says the guy who was first to put us at 11-5 in the "record" thread...
We both see improvement in nearly every area... make that potential improvement. If there's a problem with our shared vision it's that the key area on each side of the ball, QB and LB Corps, is where the greatest questions lay.
Fortunately we don't have long to wait for answers.
Good stuff.... if a little rose-tinted... says the guy who was first to put us at 11-5 in the "record" thread...
We both see improvement in nearly every area... make that potential improvement. If there's a problem with our shared vision it's that the key area on each side of the ball, QB and LB Corps, is where the greatest questions lay.
Fortunately we don't have long to wait for answers.
Thanks Tour! I predicted 11-5 as well but I made sure to remind people we went 11-5 back when Vinny Testaverde was supposed to guide us into the headlamp of an oncoming train. It was a QB getting chased out of Tampa's nightmare to a much better setup. In fact, the setup was so good here that all we needed from Vinny was 16 TD passes to 18 INTs to get 11 Ws before winning our last playoff game.
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Well thought out and inspiring post. One of the best things I have ever read on the internet.
Well thought out and inspiring post. One of the best things I have ever read on the internet.
Much appreciated! Glad you enjoyed it.
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Most improved area? Hope within the Browns Fan Corps.
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I agree with depth at most positions but am concerned we lack talent and speed in the passing game.
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WR are nothing but shiny hood ornaments.
Of course we want every position to be as stocked as we are at DB. But that's not possible.. if you want to invest in one position, another position that is currently receiving the dollars/draft pick investments will be worse. The question you need to ask yourself is.. what position, precisely, are you willing to make significantly worse in order to elevate WR to some sort of prominence?
Just for fun, go look at how many first- or second-round picks the Rams have invested in WR over the last 4 seasons.. and yet, their current batch of WR is no better than what we have today.
Objective reality: WR contribution is only meaningful AFTER the rest of the team is in place.
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The rest of the team is pretty much in place, unsympathetic. Need a QB and a good big receiver. And we don't really NEED either as we could make the playoffs this year with neither. But those are really the last two pieces.
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While all football previews, media and columnists (outside of Cleveland) are predicting their usual last place finish for the Browns - Farmer and Pettine have us carefully calculated for the other side of 8-8 by a country mile. I just read another publication that subliminally tells Cleveland fans they should just be happy they got their team and colors back and to party like it's 1999. I got their 1999 right here! I can get a more informative report from Rip Van Winkle while he's taking inventory of sheep.
The good news is Farmer and Pettine don't believe in the 12th of Never, which was why it was possible to see our favorite team off to a 7-4 start in 2014. Our team coming off a 4-12 Poseiden Adventure in 2013 was persevering through injuries until those got extensive/pervasive enough to just make us a 60 minute pain in the ass for all but 2 remaining opponents. In any event, here's the Victorious Secrets flying under the national radar after another impressive off season from the front office & HC in as many as they've had here:
1) Oline Depth. This is the deepest offensive line we've had going into camp. Here's the top 7: Thomas, Mack, Bitonio, Greco, Schwartz, Erving and Bowie. Meanwhile, Seymour and others have to show up to training camp with a Gladiator's mindset. Work hard enough to survive another day. We're no longer that team who has to look to the matador skills of O'Neil Cousins or the twistin Andy McQuistan. Today, we're proactive for any reactive replacements necessary. Preparation is refreshing isn't it? Have you ever seen this many Victorious Secrets models weighing in at over 300 lbs?
2) Dline Depth. This is the deepest defensive line I've seen at least in terms of having the right guys for the schemes/alignments in the current plan. Here's some Victorious Secret models you'd rather see in pads than fanny floss competing for as few as 7 roster spots: Shelton, Hughes, Starks, D.Bryant, Winn, Cooper, Taylor, Kitchen and Wynn. Previous injury volumes remind us that as soon as we think we're deep enough to trade somebody - half our guys are through injury while others can't answer the bell. Let's enjoy depth rather than chase it away before we have to. Is this another example of being prepared? Who knew? Not the squids writing up the national football previews.
3) RB Depth. We come a long way since Tiny Dancer Richardson and deciding which former Houston Texan practice squad RB we're going to trial and error next. I just watched a 2014 replay of Miami vrs FSU to remind me we added a rookie RB that could slay grey area zone coverage transitions with a wheel house route. In essence, we now have a RB corps that includes a guy for every situation (and invites more intrigue to involve the RBs in our passing game). Just like Herman Fontenot once gave us 47 receptions on 3rd downs as a change of pace to Mack and Byner running it down an opponent's esophagus - Crowell & West would work well in tandem with Duke Johnson spelling them on 3rd downs. We now have a couple RBs with a fear gear that can score from anywhere on the field and that doesn't suck folks. Wilbert Montgomery is an old school master at keeping the flames under fannies so I'm looking forward to the inevitable growth of a position that really took grand strides in 2014.
4) Secondary Depth. Haden, T. Williams, K. Williams, Gilbert, Desir, Gaines compete for for the top 3 roles at corner. Ekpre-Olomu is an exciting pick we'll have to wait another year to see but that's invested quality getting red shirted for a time he might be needed more. Meanwhile, Whitner, Gipson, Poyer, Bademosi, and Campbell pack the depth at our Safety spots. If for some reason, Gilbert's fate is not to be an NFL corner - Mike Mayock once said "At the very least, he's the best return man in this draft class." I think we'll all agree that PR and KR specialist is definitely a spot we can upgrade. We don't have to make this as difficult as we did in 2014. When we're suddenly problem solving in Poyer in the 2nd half of the Jax game - he misjudged the punt and they recovered deep in our red zone for a wind out of sails check mate on a game we could have won ugly. Bigger point is Gilbert's elite skillset for a return game will keep him employed in the NFL if his corner skills are threatening it. Why not tap those in lieu of head scratching and over-thinking? This duty remains an instinct so I don't get how it interferes with a weekly preparation from the player.
5) LBer Corps Depth. Kruger, Dansby, Kirksey, Robertson, Carder, Mingo, Orchard, A.Bryant, Solomon, Eubanks, Pullard. It's a melting pot of varied experience, skill sets and specialties. In 2014, I saw massive improvements from 3 different LBers: Mingo (especially in coverage while playing with only 1 healthy flipper), Robertson (played fast in coverage/vrs the point of attack), Kruger (12 sacks + a hit on Brees during the throw that led to a pick 6 from Gipson + a strip on Luck that gave us a TD).
6) WR Corps Depth. Mud's trivia brought to life some uplifting awareness about our hood ornaments. We had to guys with elite rankings in a very underrated yards per catch category. They were Travis Benjamin with 17.4 ypc and Taylor Gabriel with 17.3 ypc. Benjamin also led our WR Corps in TD receptions in spite of how part time he was. Unfortunately it was only a volume of 3 explaining 2 things: 1) The addition of size at WR for red zone and short yardage situations via Hartline, Bowe, Mayle and Smith, and 2) a stronger arm at QB to exploit the over-the-top opportunities. I'm not sure how many guys we'll keep but these are the names competing for situational roles and roster spots: Gabriel, Bowe, Hawkins, Hartline, Mayle, Smith, and Benjamin.
7) Punter. Some of the times we've beaten Pittsburgh once a year since 2009 was because our punter & coverage team did a great job of pinning Pittsburgh inside their 10-15 yard line. As much as I hate to spend time talking about punters/kickers, we just added a really talented punter at flipping field position. Andy Lee can definitely have a say in a close football game so he becomes another invisible silver lining here flying under the radar.
QB. When Trent Dilfer was here - I understood why people thought of our passing game as the panic attack. When Josh McCown was playing for a good Chicago running game, he was never sentenced to 3rd and forever behind suspect pass protections. Therefore, he had a 109 passer rating with a TD to INT ratio of 14-1 with only his lowest volume of fumbles. In 2014, we had WRs toasting corners over the top only to have to turn around and come back for underthrown passes with hang time. If the passer hits one of these guys in stride - we're not losing an air tight football game to the Rats. As was the case with Hoyer, we now have a QB that is looking for the right situation to succeed. When either guy had the running game of Arizona, it all went over like a fart in church. When both guys had a running game/oline like our's - they played the best football of their careers. The same could be said for the much maligned Vinny Testaverde departing from football Hell in Tampa to a run blocking line that would put Leroy Hoard in a Pro Bowl while we won 11 games plus a playoff games. The good news was Vinny was never asked to be perfect during all that as his 16 TD passes to 18 INTs would reflect. Our new regime not only GETS this - they're planning their futures off of what has worked best in OUR history.9) Tight End. This is the position I have to tap a little creativity with; but at the same time we're a long way from panic mode. Barnidge and Dray played a lot while Cameron couldn't answer the bell; and I don't remember either guy preventing us from winning while both made some clutch catches when we needed them to. Newcomer Rob Doogie Housler has a lot of upside while I think the rookie Malcolm Johnson can line up at FB to catch the ball out of the backfield (like the highlights I've seen) or block. There's an undrafted guy Bibbs that drew a lot of praise from Pettine; and someone started a nice thread about it in here. Farmer has done well with finding undrafted rookie gems like K-Waun Williams, Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell - so might be another example of that.
10) Coaching. The improvement seen with our LBer Corps, offensive line and RB positions in particular shows a lot of good thing from our coaching staff. Young LBers like Mingo and Robertson looked much improved while Kruger's pass rush got rewarded with at least twice as many sacks as he had in 2013. I also feel like our WR Corps came up big when we needed clutch catches late in games with different guys stepping up different weeks. Our previous WR Corps were best known for their frequency of drops. Josh Gordon getting re-inserted ruined a lot of momentum and chemistry established. And when he didn't know some of the plays/routes he was to run - that sucked. That was more on him than the coaches. The coaches ended up suspending him for where he was ultimately placing his football career on his priority list. To this staff, Gordon has been a land mine.
Lost in all the national premature hysterics about McCown is the one thing we SHOULD worry about. Who is going to split the uprights in close football games or when we have the ball last with a chance to win? I'm more worried about that than I am with what will McCown do in his first season after Tampa's 31st ranked running game sentenced him to 3rd and eternity behind a crappy line. I'll let the uninformed national sports columnists continue to pretend we have Tampa Bay's offensive line while we discuss things more pertinent to our situation here. If you made it this far - thanks for reading.
While all football previews, media and columnists (outside of Cleveland) are predicting their usual last place finish for the Browns - Farmer and Pettine have us carefully calculated for the other side of 8-8 by a country mile. I just read another publication that subliminally tells Cleveland fans they should just be happy they got their team and colors back and to party like it's 1999. I got their 1999 right here! I can get a more informative report from Rip Van Winkle while he's taking inventory of sheep.
The good news is Farmer and Pettine don't believe in the 12th of Never, which was why it was possible to see our favorite team off to a 7-4 start in 2014. Our team coming off a 4-12 Poseiden Adventure in 2013 was persevering through injuries until those got extensive/pervasive enough to just make us a 60 minute pain in the ass for all but 2 remaining opponents. In any event, here's the Victorious Secrets flying under the national radar after another impressive off season from the front office & HC in as many as they've had here:
1) Oline Depth. This is the deepest offensive line we've had going into camp. Here's the top 7: Thomas, Mack, Bitonio, Greco, Schwartz, Erving and Bowie. Meanwhile, Seymour and others have to show up to training camp with a Gladiator's mindset. Work hard enough to survive another day. We're no longer that team who has to look to the matador skills of O'Neil Cousins or the twistin Andy McQuistan. Today, we're proactive for any reactive replacements necessary. Preparation is refreshing isn't it? Have you ever seen this many Victorious Secrets models weighing in at over 300 lbs?
2) Dline Depth. This is the deepest defensive line I've seen at least in terms of having the right guys for the schemes/alignments in the current plan. Here's some Victorious Secret models you'd rather see in pads than fanny floss competing for as few as 7 roster spots: Shelton, Hughes, Starks, D.Bryant, Winn, Cooper, Taylor, Kitchen and Wynn. Previous injury volumes remind us that as soon as we think we're deep enough to trade somebody - half our guys are through injury while others can't answer the bell. Let's enjoy depth rather than chase it away before we have to. Is this another example of being prepared? Who knew? Not the squids writing up the national football previews.
3) RB Depth. We come a long way since Tiny Dancer Richardson and deciding which former Houston Texan practice squad RB we're going to trial and error next. I just watched a 2014 replay of Miami vrs FSU to remind me we added a rookie RB that could slay grey area zone coverage transitions with a wheel house route. In essence, we now have a RB corps that includes a guy for every situation (and invites more intrigue to involve the RBs in our passing game). Just like Herman Fontenot once gave us 47 receptions on 3rd downs as a change of pace to Mack and Byner running it down an opponent's esophagus - Crowell & West would work well in tandem with Duke Johnson spelling them on 3rd downs. We now have a couple RBs with a fear gear that can score from anywhere on the field and that doesn't suck folks. Wilbert Montgomery is an old school master at keeping the flames under fannies so I'm looking forward to the inevitable growth of a position that really took grand strides in 2014.
4) Secondary Depth. Haden, T. Williams, K. Williams, Gilbert, Desir, Gaines compete for for the top 3 roles at corner. Ekpre-Olomu is an exciting pick we'll have to wait another year to see but that's invested quality getting red shirted for a time he might be needed more. Meanwhile, Whitner, Gipson, Poyer, Bademosi, and Campbell pack the depth at our Safety spots. If for some reason, Gilbert's fate is not to be an NFL corner - Mike Mayock once said "At the very least, he's the best return man in this draft class." I think we'll all agree that PR and KR specialist is definitely a spot we can upgrade. We don't have to make this as difficult as we did in 2014. When we're suddenly problem solving in Poyer in the 2nd half of the Jax game - he misjudged the punt and they recovered deep in our red zone for a wind out of sails check mate on a game we could have won ugly. Bigger point is Gilbert's elite skillset for a return game will keep him employed in the NFL if his corner skills are threatening it. Why not tap those in lieu of head scratching and over-thinking? This duty remains an instinct so I don't get how it interferes with a weekly preparation from the player.
5) LBer Corps Depth. Kruger, Dansby, Kirksey, Robertson, Carder, Mingo, Orchard, A.Bryant, Solomon, Eubanks, Pullard. It's a melting pot of varied experience, skill sets and specialties. In 2014, I saw massive improvements from 3 different LBers: Mingo (especially in coverage while playing with only 1 healthy flipper), Robertson (played fast in coverage/vrs the point of attack), Kruger (12 sacks + a hit on Brees during the throw that led to a pick 6 from Gipson + a strip on Luck that gave us a TD).
6) WR Corps Depth. Mud's trivia brought to life some uplifting awareness about our hood ornaments. We had to guys with elite rankings in a very underrated yards per catch category. They were Travis Benjamin with 17.4 ypc and Taylor Gabriel with 17.3 ypc. Benjamin also led our WR Corps in TD receptions in spite of how part time he was. Unfortunately it was only a volume of 3 explaining 2 things: 1) The addition of size at WR for red zone and short yardage situations via Hartline, Bowe, Mayle and Smith, and 2) a stronger arm at QB to exploit the over-the-top opportunities. I'm not sure how many guys we'll keep but these are the names competing for situational roles and roster spots: Gabriel, Bowe, Hawkins, Hartline, Mayle, Smith, and Benjamin.
7) Punter. Some of the times we've beaten Pittsburgh once a year since 2009 was because our punter & coverage team did a great job of pinning Pittsburgh inside their 10-15 yard line. As much as I hate to spend time talking about punters/kickers, we just added a really talented punter at flipping field position. Andy Lee can definitely have a say in a close football game so he becomes another invisible silver lining here flying under the radar.
QB. When Trent Dilfer was here - I understood why people thought of our passing game as the panic attack. When Josh McCown was playing for a good Chicago running game, he was never sentenced to 3rd and forever behind suspect pass protections. Therefore, he had a 109 passer rating with a TD to INT ratio of 14-1 with only his lowest volume of fumbles. In 2014, we had WRs toasting corners over the top only to have to turn around and come back for underthrown passes with hang time. If the passer hits one of these guys in stride - we're not losing an air tight football game to the Rats. As was the case with Hoyer, we now have a QB that is looking for the right situation to succeed. When either guy had the running game of Arizona, it all went over like a fart in church. When both guys had a running game/oline like our's - they played the best football of their careers. The same could be said for the much maligned Vinny Testaverde departing from football Hell in Tampa to a run blocking line that would put Leroy Hoard in a Pro Bowl while we won 11 games plus a playoff games. The good news was Vinny was never asked to be perfect during all that as his 16 TD passes to 18 INTs would reflect. Our new regime not only GETS this - they're planning their futures off of what has worked best in OUR history.9) Tight End. This is the position I have to tap a little creativity with; but at the same time we're a long way from panic mode. Barnidge and Dray played a lot while Cameron couldn't answer the bell; and I don't remember either guy preventing us from winning while both made some clutch catches when we needed them to. Newcomer Rob Doogie Housler has a lot of upside while I think the rookie Malcolm Johnson can line up at FB to catch the ball out of the backfield (like the highlights I've seen) or block. There's an undrafted guy Bibbs that drew a lot of praise from Pettine; and someone started a nice thread about it in here. Farmer has done well with finding undrafted rookie gems like K-Waun Williams, Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell - so might be another example of that.
10) Coaching. The improvement seen with our LBer Corps, offensive line and RB positions in particular shows a lot of good thing from our coaching staff. Young LBers like Mingo and Robertson looked much improved while Kruger's pass rush got rewarded with at least twice as many sacks as he had in 2013. I also feel like our WR Corps came up big when we needed clutch catches late in games with different guys stepping up different weeks. Our previous WR Corps were best known for their frequency of drops. Josh Gordon getting re-inserted ruined a lot of momentum and chemistry established. And when he didn't know some of the plays/routes he was to run - that sucked. That was more on him than the coaches. The coaches ended up suspending him for where he was ultimately placing his football career on his priority list. To this staff, Gordon has been a land mine.
Lost in all the national premature hysterics about McCown is the one thing we SHOULD worry about. Who is going to split the uprights in close football games or when we have the ball last with a chance to win? I'm more worried about that than I am with what will McCown do in his first season after Tampa's 31st ranked running game sentenced him to 3rd and eternity behind a crappy line. I'll let the uninformed national sports columnists continue to pretend we have Tampa Bay's offensive line while we discuss things more pertinent to our situation here. If you made it this far - thanks for reading.
I'm gonna read that when I free up 2-3 hours, but when I saw the heading I was expecting this:
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War: The rest of the team would NOT be in place if we had attempted to get a "top" WR.
In each case, the team could have drafted other components to complete the team before the WR:
Counterexample #1: The St Louis Rams. How many recent picks have they spent on WR the last 4 years? As a whole, their WR group is no better than ours. [2013 rd 1,3 2012 rd 2,4 2011 rd 3,4]
Counterexample #2: The Atlanta Falcons. Julio and Matty and Roddy White.. and a whole lot of nothing. What has made them potentially useful at DL? Drafting Beasley in the first this year. None of their OL, LB, or DB would make the Browns bench, let alone start. How many playoff games have they won? One, the 1/13 2013 first-round squeaker over the Seahawks.. and that's IT. 4-12 last year, 6-10 the year before, 1-3 in the playoffs with those 3 as the core.
Counterexample #3: Cordarrelle Patterson: All-Pro or barely average #2?
Counterexample #4: Michael Floyd for the Cardinals: First-round pick, but he isn't even guaranteed a starting spot in 2015 ..because John Brown, who they picked in the 3rd, is outperforming him.
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The rest of the team is pretty much in place, unsympathetic. Need a QB and a good big receiver. And we don't really NEED either as we could make the playoffs this year with neither. But those are really the last two pieces.
The rest of the team is pretty much in place, unsympathetic. Need a QB and a good big receiver. And we don't really NEED either as we could make the playoffs this year with neither. But those are really the last two pieces.
His name is Terrelle Pryor.
His name is Terrelle Pryor.
His name is Terrelle Pryor.
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Great stuff, as usual, Flugel....and Id agree were looking pretty solid across most of the board....and for me, that would include wr..
The point about the kicker is key.....we have no idea what they have and kicker is a really important element to any successful team. I gotta place some hope that they feel they've upgraded K, simply due to the fact that they have dumped 2 veterans already....tho it is a major concern to me. Too often the game comes down to making a single kick.....so lets hope we have a guy to get er done...
And QB, of course, is the other issue......McCown and/or Johnny need to be much better than they were last year.....so, we are really banking on "someone" suddenly improving enough to run this team well.....and then hoping that person stays healthy, because if he gets hurt, then we must rely on the second guy suddenly improving enough to run this team well.....(longer odds for 2 guys to suddenly get better, right?)
So, Im very hopeful McCown rediscovers that year he had in Chicago and has a solid season and stays healthy.....
And I still have a flicker of hope that JM flourishes and brings his game up to a respectable level....
But, in the end.....even with all the depth......these 2 positions are really iffy.....and really important......
Washington cant come fast enough for me.....
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You missed my point, unsympathetic. You said:
Objective reality: WR contribution is only meaningful AFTER the rest of the team is in place.
I told you that the rest of the team IS in place.
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I know it's July. But I was reading a magazine that had the Browns starters and back-ups and I'm telling you we haven't had that kind of quality in the new era. If not this year, I expect us to be a playoff team in 2016.
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It's the late July Browns fan!
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It's the late July Browns fan!
The Soldier said:
It's the late July Browns fan!
At least there are Browns fans in late July.
Steeler fans don't normally admit to being Steeler fans until Week 10 or 12, once the Steelers have established a winning record and the fans can toot their horns.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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