OSU Pro Day
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I know you think he's good in coverage, but that's the whole point. How does a guy who runs in the 4.7s or 4.8s stay with slot receivers who run 4.4? What about TEs like Dustin Keller and Ben Watson who run a 4.5? Well, he doesn't.
And that's why they make them run while timing them with stop watches. Because everyone is faster in the pros and you need to find out which guys are going to be able to keep up.
I know you think he's good in coverage, but that's the whole point. How does a guy who runs in the 4.7s or 4.8s stay with slot receivers who run 4.4? What about TEs like Dustin Keller and Ben Watson who run a 4.5? Well, he doesn't.
And that's why they make them run while timing them with stop watches. Because everyone is faster in the pros and you need to find out which guys are going to be able to keep up.
Many on here want to see Brian Orakpo drafted with the 5th pick.....He runs a 4.7 too. Where is the questions about his speed?
Is he going to be able to keep up with the same guys you mentioned?
Jon Beason ran a 4.72 at the combines and was drafted #25 overall. I think Lofa Tatupu ran something like a 4.8!
Brian Cushing played the outside at USC and he ran a 4.74 at the combine....His stock went up!
I'm a Buckeye fan but do not wear those Scarlet and Gray glasses. Never have when it comes to the Browns or the NFL.
But JL is a very very good cover guy. He also has soft hands for a LB and will make INT's when the ball is thrown to him.
I remember all the same arguments about Chris Spielman too.......He's too slow!
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Middle linebackers don't have to cover slot receivers and tight ends? What game are you watching?
You know how they talk about some guys being two-down LBs, and others who can stay on the field all the time? Why do you think they make that distinction?
Middle linebackers don't have to cover slot receivers and tight ends? What game are you watching?
A lot of scouts think he'll play the outside in the NFL. Just as Hawk is doing now.
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nmills said:
lol wow you got to be joking. Watch some video its about football speed not track speed.Thank you, I agree 100%. Guys going goffy over a DT that can run a 4.6 40. I never saw a DT run 40 yards without taking oxygen half way through.
I rather watch him on film and see what kind of burst he has, how he uses his hands, can he drop into coverage, can he get off of blocks and can he move sidline to sideline. Who gives a shit what his 40 time is. You end up with a guy like Hubbard who runs a 4.3 40 but can't catch and runs poor routes. The greatest receiver in football, Jerry Rice, ran a 4.6 in his pro day.
OSU does have a fast track but it isn't worth a .1 of a second. That's unrealistic. There are all kinds of schools that have the same track as OSU, so I would qualify it as a fast track but you won't see scouts adjusting their times by .1 of a second.
I can't believe the guys trying to diss the OSU players. Trying to find any excuse. A 3 time all-american, multi award winner for LB and defensive player of the year and guys are looking for things to knock him on.
Damn, just watch the film.....................................Same with Maualuga.
OSU does have a fast track but it isn't worth a .1 of a second. That's unrealistic. There are all kinds of schools that have the same track as OSU, so I would qualify it as a fast track but you won't see scouts adjusting their times by .1 of a second.
Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day.
And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage.
Vernon Gholston
- Combine: 4.65
- Pro day: 4.58
- Combine: 4.76
- Pro day: 4.65
- Combine: 4.59
- Pro day: 4.47
- Combine: 5.00
- Pro day: 4.90
- Combine: 4.63
- Pro day: 4.53
- Combine: 4.88
- Pro day: 4.78
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Just draft Beanie........if he is there
this from me a blitering xxxxing moron who who gets it right 95% and gets 60% his posts deleted by the dimwits moderators.............save stan who is indeed the genius
Saying "Ohio State will win" and "the Browns will lose" are nothing to brag about when right. It's just about the shortest limb you could go out on.
BTW, you're going to find in the NFL that your boy Beanie isn't in love with contact in between the tackles, when it's not some DB he can just shoved to the ground.
BTW, you're going to find in the NFL that your boy Beanie isn't in love with contact in between the tackles, when it's not some DB he can just shoved to the ground.
The idea is to avoid contact . Give me Beanie or give me Robiskie .
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The idea is to avoid contact
That's my point. Contact avoidance is smart, but great running backs initiate contact when it's smart to i.e., Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Adrian Peterson. Beanie Wells never initiates it other than tossing a DB to the ground, and even then there isn't much contact.
His level of desire to avoid contact will be a problem in the NFL, mark it down.
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I'd just like to point out 40 time isn't the same thing as football speed.
You have to factor in speed, agility and (more important on D) reaction times to get football speed.
After all, every receiver isn't running a straight out deep route every play. Receivers run patterns, cuts, slants, buttonhooks, ect.
So if you're looking at a receiver's speed, you look at his 40 for your straight out deep patterns, everything else you have to factor in his agility, how much speed he loses on a cut and how fast he can accelerate back to top speed.
On defense it's the same thing PLUS how fast can he react and adjust.
Is it impressive when a 300+ lb guy runs a sub 5 second 40? Hell yes it is but it doesn't translate a damn thing to the field. You have to look at it all, that's why we get screwed when we look at JUST the numbers because a ilb that ran a 4.6 would look slower than one that ran a 4.7 on the field if mr 4.6 can't accelerate and react as good as mr 4.7.
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OSU does have a fast track but it isn't worth a .1 of a second. That's unrealistic. There are all kinds of schools that have the same track as OSU, so I would qualify it as a fast track but you won't see scouts adjusting their times by .1 of a second.
Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day.
And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage.
Vernon Gholston
- Combine: 4.65
- Pro day: 4.58
- Combine: 4.76
- Pro day: 4.65
- Combine: 4.59
- Pro day: 4.47
- Combine: 5.00
- Pro day: 4.90
- Combine: 4.63
- Pro day: 4.53
- Combine: 4.88
- Pro day: 4.78
Aloysius said:
Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day.And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage.
Vernon Gholston
- Combine: 4.65
- Pro day: 4.58
- Combine: 4.76
- Pro day: 4.65
- Combine: 4.59
- Pro day: 4.47
- Combine: 5.00
- Pro day: 4.90
- Combine: 4.63
- Pro day: 4.53
- Combine: 4.88
- Pro day: 4.78
Yes, scouts do know whaqt they are doing and time in the 40 is a small part of what they look at. If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time. Everybody runs on pro day and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility. Besides, scouts watch film and want to know game speed.
I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
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Aloysius said:
Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day.And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage.
Vernon Gholston
- Combine: 4.65
- Pro day: 4.58
- Combine: 4.76
- Pro day: 4.65
- Combine: 4.59
- Pro day: 4.47
- Combine: 5.00
- Pro day: 4.90
- Combine: 4.63
- Pro day: 4.53
- Combine: 4.88
- Pro day: 4.78
Yes, scouts do know whaqt they are doing and time in the 40 is a small part of what they look at. If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time. Everybody runs on pro day and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility. Besides, scouts watch film and want to know game speed.
I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
.I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
I think you are mostly right....Except for the Corner position anyways. Scouts seem to count speed for everything when it comes to the corners.
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I sure hope that Beanie dosn't get drafted by the Steelers, Ravens or the Bengals. Our run stop defense sucks ass as it is.
I sure hope that Beanie dosn't get drafted by the Steelers, Ravens or the Bengals. Our run stop defense sucks ass as it is.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. He'll spend half the game running off the field because his finger or hand or toe or elbow hurts.
The NFL's scout page said it best... "Wells doesn't seem to understand the difference between pain and injury".
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Aloysius said:
Every pro day time is adjusted using the Combine as a baseline; they do the same thing for 40's run at USC's pro day.And if you actually look at the numbers, it's clear that running on OSU's fast track yields, on average, a .1 second advantage.
Vernon Gholston
- Combine: 4.65
- Pro day: 4.58
- Combine: 4.76
- Pro day: 4.65
- Combine: 4.59
- Pro day: 4.47
- Combine: 5.00
- Pro day: 4.90
- Combine: 4.63
- Pro day: 4.53
- Combine: 4.88
- Pro day: 4.78
Yes, scouts do know whaqt they are doing and time in the 40 is a small part of what they look at. If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time. Everybody runs on pro day and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility. Besides, scouts watch film and want to know game speed.
I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time.
That doesn't work because:
- 1. Not every draftable prospect is invited to the Combine.
2. Some players who are invited can't run due to injuries.
3. Many players feel that the long hours and stressful conditions at the Combine lead to their poor 40 times, which they seek to correct at their pro days
4. OSU players have a history of electing to run only on the fast track at their pro day (if you want, I can put together a list of names)
Everybody runs on pro day
That's not true. Many prospects who perform exceeding well at the Combine opt not to run at their pro days. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Johnny Knox are two guys who chose not to go through any of the speed & agility drills at their respective pro days.
and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility.
I don't get this: even if most prospects run faster at their pro days (and I'm not certain that's true), wouldn't scouts want to be able to compare their times? If there isn't some baseline to compare the times to, how can a scout know whether a time run at pro day x is faster than a time at pro day y?
I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
I'm not sure I have a set, well-considered opinion on how much scouts value 40 times, and I don't think I've said anything about it in this thread. Perhaps you're confusing me with Heck.
My point simply was that Beanie's 4.35-4.45 likely equates to running a 4.45-4.55 at the Combine, which is still very impressive. The same .1 second adjustment would apply to Laurinaitis's time, making it a 4.78-4.88. Do you disagree with that?
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I am still on the marcus Freeman is the darkhorse i would like to see a Brown kick. I am not big on JL.... i disagree and dont think he is a good pass rusher for the NFL level.
Jenkins honestly never seemed to me watching buck games was a shut down corner. I think robiskie is another santonio holmes for the NFL. Washington I always thought actually sucked.
I dont care about those 40 times on whatever track, for me that does not always translate truly in full pads during games day.
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.I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
I think you are mostly right....Except for the Corner position anyways. Scouts seem to count speed for everything when it comes to the corners.
oldcow1945 said:
I think you are mostly right....Except for the Corner position anyways. Scouts seem to count speed for everything when it comes to the corners.Yes, WR and corners. Positions that need to create separation or have recovery speed. Then, there's game speed. Some people just look and play great in shorts.
Jenkins timed slow for a corner, but I didn't see him get beat by those speedy outside WRs.
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If pro day 40's didn't mean much then they wouldn't run them. they would just use the Combine time.
That doesn't work because:
- 1. Not every draftable prospect is invited to the Combine.
2. Some players who are invited can't run due to injuries.
3. Many players feel that the long hours and stressful conditions at the Combine lead to their poor 40 times, which they seek to correct at their pro days
4. OSU players have a history of electing to run only on the fast track at their pro day (if you want, I can put together a list of names)
Everybody runs on pro day
That's not true. Many prospects who perform exceeding well at the Combine opt not to run at their pro days. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Johnny Knox are two guys who chose not to go through any of the speed & agility drills at their respective pro days.
and they most run faster so there is no adjustments being made to a time at one facility.
I don't get this: even if most prospects run faster at their pro days (and I'm not certain that's true), wouldn't scouts want to be able to compare their times? If there isn't some baseline to compare the times to, how can a scout know whether a time run at pro day x is faster than a time at pro day y?
I don't think they get caught up in 40 times as much as you think they do.
I'm not sure I have a set, well-considered opinion on how much scouts value 40 times, and I don't think I've said anything about it in this thread. Perhaps you're confusing me with Heck.
My point simply was that Beanie's 4.35-4.45 likely equates to running a 4.45-4.55 at the Combine, which is still very impressive. The same .1 second adjustment would apply to Laurinaitis's time, making it a 4.78-4.88. Do you disagree with that?
Aloysius said:
That doesn't work because:- 1. Not every draftable prospect is invited to the Combine.
2. Some players who are invited can't run due to injuries.
3. Many players feel that the long hours and stressful conditions at the Combine lead to their poor 40 times, which they seek to correct at their pro days
4. OSU players have a history of electing to run only on the fast track at their pro day (if you want, I can put together a list of names)
That's not true. Many prospects who perform exceeding well at the Combine opt not to run at their pro days. Darrius Heyward-Bey and Johnny Knox are two guys who chose not to go through any of the speed & agility drills at their respective pro days.
I don't get this: even if most prospects run faster at their pro days (and I'm not certain that's true), wouldn't scouts want to be able to compare their times? If there isn't some baseline to compare the times to, how can a scout know whether a time run at pro day x is faster than a time at pro day y?
I'm not sure I have a set, well-considered opinion on how much scouts value 40 times, and I don't think I've said anything about it in this thread. Perhaps you're confusing me with Heck.
My point simply was that Beanie's 4.35-4.45 likely equates to running a 4.45-4.55 at the Combine, which is still very impressive. The same .1 second adjustment would apply to Laurinaitis's time, making it a 4.78-4.88. Do you disagree with that?
Flordia has a fast track, Miami has a extremely fast track, USC has the fastest tract of all. Ariz has a fast track, Georgia has a fast track, Michagan has a fast track as does Oklahoma. So, whos' adjusting to what. The track at the combine was a slow track as noted by the scouts. fact is your time is just that and is good for comparisons only. How they preformed at the combine wasn't about the number it was about how they compared to others.
OSU having a fast track is known just like a dozen or more other facilities are noted for having a fast track. OSU isn't way out of the norm or their track records would be disallowed. So, is it the fastest track when you see track records being broken at other tracks and not at OSU.
So your example of Beanie running a 4.45 vs his 4.55 at the combine is no different then what will happen to Noshon Morino when he runs on his pro day or Greene or Donald Brown when they run on theirs. Same with Laurinaitis's time as you watch other LBs reduce their times fron their pro days.
My point is scouts don't downgrade the time from OSU and don't downgrade the times from other universities. It's a comparison and the combine number isn't the gold standard. It is a slow track and everybody knows it. It's comparitive because most others will reduce their times also.
The real test is if they bring them into Cleveland for a personal workout. Then, they have a time at a facility where it can be compared to what others have run at the same facility over the years. But, basing a ILBs draft status on his 40 time isn't all that realistic. A corner, then yes. A WR, then yes............but saying JL's stock will drop or his status changed by his "average" 40 time is over the top.
Times are comparitive not adjusted and they are a small portion of what goes into the evaluation of someone. More decisions are based on game film then 40 times.
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Just draft Beanie........if he is there
this from me a blitering xxxxing moron who who gets it right 95% and gets 60% his posts deleted by the dimwits moderators.............save stan who is indeed the genius
Saying "Ohio State will win" and "the Browns will lose" are nothing to brag about when right. It's just about the shortest limb you could go out on.
BTW, you're going to find in the NFL that your boy Beanie isn't in love with contact in between the tackles, when it's not some DB he can just shoved to the ground.
BTW, you're going to find in the NFL that your boy Beanie isn't in love with contact in between the tackles, when it's not some DB he can just shoved to the ground.
Huh? 85-90% of his runs are between the tackles. Not sure what you're basing this on.
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
I sure hope that Beanie dosn't get drafted by the Steelers, Ravens or the Bengals. Our run stop defense sucks ass as it is.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. He'll spend half the game running off the field because his finger or hand or toe or elbow hurts.
The NFL's scout page said it best... "Wells doesn't seem to understand the difference between pain and injury".
oldcow1945 said:
The NFL's scout page said it best... "Wells doesn't seem to understand the difference between pain and injury".Didn't Jim Brown make some kind of backhanded remark as well about Chris running out of bounds a lot? Something to the fact that isn't a real football player or something like that.... I do remember that.
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oldcow1945 said:
I think you are mostly right....Except for the Corner position anyways. Scouts seem to count speed for everything when it comes to the corners.Yes, WR and corners. Positions that need to create separation or have recovery speed. Then, there's game speed. Some people just look and play great in shorts.
Jenkins timed slow for a corner, but I didn't see him get beat by those speedy outside WRs.
Yes, WR and corners. Positions that need to create separation or have recovery speed. Then, there's game speed. Some people just look and play great in shorts.
Jenkins timed slow for a corner, but I didn't see him get beat by those speedy outside WRs.
Ya know, I don't think scouts get too caught up in 40 times for WR's even. Look at Crabtree. It's well known he is not a burner but he's still considered this draft's best WR.
But corners? Man, it seems if you aren't running sub 4.5's then you don;t have a future!
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Huh? 85-90% of his runs are between the tackles. Not sure what you're basing this on.
Basing it on the same thing Chris Spielman based his comments on....the fact that Beanie is running off the field all the time because of pain.
Go to the NFL's combine site and read the analysis on him....."Beanie doesn't seem to know the difference between pain and injury".
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Huh? 85-90% of his runs are between the tackles. Not sure what you're basing this on.
Basing it on the same thing Chris Spielman based his comments on....the fact that Beanie is running off the field all the time because of pain.
Go to the NFL's combine site and read the analysis on him....."Beanie doesn't seem to know the difference between pain and injury".
oldcow1945 said:
Basing it on the same thing Chris Spielman based his comments on....the fact that Beanie is running off the field all the time because of pain.Go to the NFL's combine site and read the analysis on him....."Beanie doesn't seem to know the difference between pain and injury".
He played his entire sophmore season with a broken wrist.
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According to Gil Brandt, Rob Ryan was at OSU's pro day, as were Mike Tomlin, Dick LeBeau, and Kevin Colbert.
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