Trade Bait
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No....I can find ways to insult soccer that have nothing to do with how player movement is run.
I was asking if the EPL and other leagues conduct trades like the sports here do......and the answer is apparently not.
My understanding is that essentially everything is done like the free agent market here in that sport:
No draft, no trades. Essentially everyone is a FA when their contract expires.....or for new players, whoever the highest bidder is for that person's services.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Does the MLS operate more on the European....open market system.....or on the US....draft/trade...system?
Surprisingly, you are wrong. When I said "buying" players, that doesn't happen exclusively at the end of the contract. Actually, that's usually the exception. Most players are bought, for money. As in, "we'll give you $100m for Messi" - like buying a house or whatever, the negotiations will go from there. Frequently the answer will just be "no." So at any given point, any team could (in theory) sign any player from anywhere. Add in the limitless number of leagues in the world, and the fact that you can sign a player from anywhere, you actually get tons more speculation than you do in football.
For example, you could look at four or five positions that need to be upgraded, you can say "we can sell these guys, we'll probably get around $20m for them; we have an initial $40m to spend, so now we have $60m. we can get players x ($5m), y ($15m), z ($22m) and that leaves us $7m to find the final player" - there are so many possible permutations, because there's no salary cap, no transfer cap - by number of players or money - so there's limitless possibilities.
I'm not saying that's better - it creates a very uneven playing field for the teams, especially since prize money and tv money isn't distributed evenly and goes to the higher placed clubs, so they cement their status. But at this time of year (off-season) it does give plenty of scope for the dreamers to dream, and the realists to piss all over it, and then for a player to say "actually, I want to leave now" and leaving on the final day of the offseason throwing the season's plans in to disarray (players have a lot more power).
Surprisingly, you are wrong. When I said "buying" players, that doesn't happen exclusively at the end of the contract. Actually, that's usually the exception. Most players are bought, for money. As in, "we'll give you $100m for Messi" - like buying a house or whatever, the negotiations will go from there. Frequently the answer will just be "no." So at any given point, any team could (in theory) sign any player from anywhere. Add in the limitless number of leagues in the world, and the fact that you can sign a player from anywhere, you actually get tons more speculation than you do in football.
For example, you could look at four or five positions that need to be upgraded, you can say "we can sell these guys, we'll probably get around $20m for them; we have an initial $40m to spend, so now we have $60m. we can get players x ($5m), y ($15m), z ($22m) and that leaves us $7m to find the final player" - there are so many possible permutations, because there's no salary cap, no transfer cap - by number of players or money - so there's limitless possibilities.
I'm not saying that's better - it creates a very uneven playing field for the teams, especially since prize money and tv money isn't distributed evenly and goes to the higher placed clubs, so they cement their status. But at this time of year (off-season) it does give plenty of scope for the dreamers to dream, and the realists to piss all over it, and then for a player to say "actually, I want to leave now" and leaving on the final day of the offseason throwing the season's plans in to disarray (players have a lot more power).
Well, I assume that player (lets call him Player Preening Pansy) who is under contract with Team X for 5 years.....has to play for Team X for 5 years, no?
That is unless, you are saying that Team X can trade Preening Pansy to Team Y for say 25 million dollars. Straight cash deal?
And I assume now that Preening Pansy has to play out his 5 year contract with Team Y, no?
And that Team X can now use the 25 mill to go buy some other player?
But, is it never done that Team X would say......we will sell you Preening Pansy for 20 million plus give us player Jumping Jack Flash?
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Surprisingly, you are wrong. When I said "buying" players, that doesn't happen exclusively at the end of the contract. Actually, that's usually the exception. Most players are bought, for money. As in, "we'll give you $100m for Messi" - like buying a house or whatever, the negotiations will go from there. Frequently the answer will just be "no." So at any given point, any team could (in theory) sign any player from anywhere. Add in the limitless number of leagues in the world, and the fact that you can sign a player from anywhere, you actually get tons more speculation than you do in football.
For example, you could look at four or five positions that need to be upgraded, you can say "we can sell these guys, we'll probably get around $20m for them; we have an initial $40m to spend, so now we have $60m. we can get players x ($5m), y ($15m), z ($22m) and that leaves us $7m to find the final player" - there are so many possible permutations, because there's no salary cap, no transfer cap - by number of players or money - so there's limitless possibilities.
I'm not saying that's better - it creates a very uneven playing field for the teams, especially since prize money and tv money isn't distributed evenly and goes to the higher placed clubs, so they cement their status. But at this time of year (off-season) it does give plenty of scope for the dreamers to dream, and the realists to piss all over it, and then for a player to say "actually, I want to leave now" and leaving on the final day of the offseason throwing the season's plans in to disarray (players have a lot more power).
Well, I assume that player (lets call him Player Preening Pansy) who is under contract with Team X for 5 years.....has to play for Team X for 5 years, no?
That is unless, you are saying that Team X can trade Preening Pansy to Team Y for say 25 million dollars. Straight cash deal?
And I assume now that Preening Pansy has to play out his 5 year contract with Team Y, no?
And that Team X can now use the 25 mill to go buy some other player?
But, is it never done that Team X would say......we will sell you Preening Pansy for 20 million plus give us player Jumping Jack Flash?
Well, I assume that player (lets call him Player Preening Pansy) who is under contract with Team X for 5 years.....has to play for Team X for 5 years, no?
That is unless, you are saying that Team X can trade Preening Pansy to Team Y for say 25 million dollars. Straight cash deal?
And I assume now that Preening Pansy has to play out his 5 year contract with Team Y, no?
And that Team X can now use the 25 mill to go buy some other player?
But, is it never done that Team X would say......we will sell you Preening Pansy for 20 million plus give us player Jumping Jack Flash?
The contract is with the team and does not get traded. THe player has to agree a new deal with the new team - usually for more money, which is why they want to leave.
Yes, the team can re-invest the money.
It will very rarely happen that you get a player-plus-cash deal. It does happen, though, but it's usually players the buying team doesn't want, so why would the selling team?
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Well, I assume that player (lets call him Player Preening Pansy) who is under contract with Team X for 5 years.....has to play for Team X for 5 years, no?
That is unless, you are saying that Team X can trade Preening Pansy to Team Y for say 25 million dollars. Straight cash deal?
And I assume now that Preening Pansy has to play out his 5 year contract with Team Y, no?
And that Team X can now use the 25 mill to go buy some other player?
But, is it never done that Team X would say......we will sell you Preening Pansy for 20 million plus give us player Jumping Jack Flash?
The contract is with the team and does not get traded. THe player has to agree a new deal with the new team - usually for more money, which is why they want to leave.
Yes, the team can re-invest the money.
It will very rarely happen that you get a player-plus-cash deal. It does happen, though, but it's usually players the buying team doesn't want, so why would the selling team?
The contract is with the team and does not get traded. THe player has to agree a new deal with the new team - usually for more money, which is why they want to leave.
Yes, the team can re-invest the money.
It will very rarely happen that you get a player-plus-cash deal. It does happen, though, but it's usually players the buying team doesn't want, so why would the selling team?
Different teams want different players for different needs. Example....some here say that we should trade one of our excess DL.....well that would likely be to a team that has a need for a DL....while we have a surplus. Many many a team has tried to trade a player they think they can no longer use for something they can....another player or a draft pick. If they have no takers sometimes that player is just cut.
I think our system is more interesting. I mean, think about it. We drafted Trent Richardson very high....but we were able to trade him for a first round pick that turned into Johnny Manziel.
Now, even though both those guys may turn into Bust-a-Rhymes.....it is still interesting nevertheless to contemplate them
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Here is a list that I could come up with of some of the Best and Worst Trades the Browns have made in their history.
Best?
A. Browns trade a 3rd and 6th round pick to the Rams for QB Frank Ryan and Tom Wilson. Not sure what Wilson did, but Ryan led the Browns to 1964 title win and 1965 title game loss...plus other playoffs.
B. Browns trade 3rd round pick in 1966 to Giants for Erich Barnes.
C. Browns trade for Joe Dellamellieure. His time here and in Buffalo get him into the Hall of Fame
D. Browns trade for Shaun Rogers for Leigh Bodden. Rogers makes 3 Pro Bowls with Browns
E. Browns trade for a First Round pick for Trent Richardson......getting anything, so much a 1st rounder for him was a coup
Worst:
A. Browns trade DE Willie Davis to Packers for D.E. A.D. Williams. Dead is right. Williams played 1 year as a backup. Willie Davis in now in the Hall of Fame
B. Browns trade DT Henry Jordan to Packers for a 5th round pick (which was nobody FB Bob Jarvus). Jordan joined Davis in the Hall of Fame.
C. Browns trade Doug Atkins and QB Ken Corgal for 3rd and 6th round picks to the Bears. Corgal and the two players Browns got with the picks became nobodies....but Atkins is also in the Hall of Fame.
D. Browns traded Bobby Mitchell for the rights to RB Ernie Davis. Bobby Mitchell is now in the Hall of Fame. Davis was dead within a year of the trade.
E. Browns trade Paul Warfield to Dolphins for the right to the 1970 #3 overall pick, which became Mike Phipps. Warfield is in the Hall of Fame....fortunately for us, he came back to play for the Browns at the end of his career.
Please feel free to add any good or bad trades the Browns have made.
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Well isn't that a risk with any trade? Of course guys could get hurt. That's what the depth is for. Gilbert was better than people think last season. We have Gaines, Ifo, and yes the two Williams AND Haden. We can absolutely afford to unload one.
Also, as to your second to last post: Deandre Hopkins for Justin Gilbert? That upgrades what we have.
Well isn't that a risk with any trade? Of course guys could get hurt. That's what the depth is for. - War
Exactly - so why erase depth if we aren't in despair in critical places? - Flugel
Gilbert was better than people think last season. - War
According to who's criteria? Steven Spielberg's or Stephen King's? Leaders of the team and teammates say otherwise. These are the guys that saw his practice habits and study habits every single day. He had some decent moments; but vets and leaders know that consistency and improvement is a process of getting out of it what you put into it. It has nothing to do with which one of us wins our philosophical debate. - Flugel
We have Gaines, Ifo, and yes the two Williams AND Haden. We can absolutely afford to unload one. - War
I already typed a lot of this but I'll retype it again a little differently. Ifo was a 1st-2nd round talent drafted in round 7 because he blew out his knee in December prompting a lot of teams to think he will red shirt his rookie season in 2015. I don't see this equating to he's ready for Antonio Brown or AJ Green if Haden has a high ankle sprain this season. Gaines is a 6th round pick so there's no telling how soon he's ready. Tramon Williams is 32 years old so there's wear and tear plus decent chances of a lost step or 2. Hopefully not, but it's hard to pretend his best football is ahead. As much as I adore K'Wuan Williams' bang for the buck talent, he gets dinged up and leaves the field a lot. another important thing to remember about a young #3 corner is the Anthony Henry story. Very reliable 3rd corner and gave us something like 10 INTs in his rookie season. Consequently, Jerry Jones assures himself a couple years later that Henry is ready to be a #1 or #2 corner; and he overpays dearly to see his investment burned every week (sometimes multiple times). These are all reasons I don't want to start trading away guys at such an important position. I've never really understood the saying "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" until I analyze something like this. There's a lot of unknowns (some exciting) that will play themselves out if we don't knee jerk. - Flugel
Also, as to your second to last post: Deandre Hopkins for Justin Gilbert? That upgrades what we have. - War
I like DeAndre Hopkins. He had 76 receptions for 1210 yards and 6 TDs. However, Andre Johnson is departing so I doubt Bill O'Brien and their GM want this remaining & reliable piece of continuity from the passing game gone especially for a guy who's work ethic and mindset remained in question. Not only that, but Houston's first round pick was a corner Kevin Johnson from Wake Forest plus Kareem Jackson just inked a long term deal. Furthermore, Hartline and Bowe have been/remain capable of putting together seasons like Hopkins had. So is Hopkins urgent enough for us? I don't think he is today. - Flugel
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Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...
And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,
If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)
The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....
Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...
And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,
If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)
The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....
I wish I read this before I replied to War because it would have saved me a lot of typing. Well done Mud!
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Bad trades:
2004 we traded a second-round and a first-round to Detroit for future Hall-Of-Famer Kellen Winslow II. Detroit was in the middle of defining Matt Millen as arguably the single worst GM of all time, but throwing a first and a second for a TE.. is stupidity of the highest order.
2008 we traded a second and a first for future Hall-Of-Famer Brady Quinn.
2011 we traded away Julio Jones for the poo-poo platter of Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic, and Greg Little.
1989 first, second, fifth, ninth round for the rights to draft Eric Metcalf, who we only had for 5 years. This is the prototypical example of why drafting the high WR is bad - because you don't recoup value if the player won't resign with you.
Good trade: 1985 supplemental draft we traded our 1985 first and third, 1986 first and sixth for Buffalo -- for the rights to Bernie Kosar.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
You don't trade your depth you never had before. It's preseason, you play your depth and the shoppers will come to you. Farmers time is ticking in 4 preseason games to act if needed. Stay healthy and I love where we sit. Let the battles begin and we will get better on both sides of the ball daily.
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Bad trades:
2004 we traded a second-round and a first-round to Detroit for future Hall-Of-Famer Kellen Winslow II. Detroit was in the middle of defining Matt Millen as arguably the single worst GM of all time, but throwing a first and a second for a TE.. is stupidity of the highest order.
2008 we traded a second and a first for future Hall-Of-Famer Brady Quinn.
2011 we traded away Julio Jones for the poo-poo platter of Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic, and Greg Little.
1989 first, second, fifth, ninth round for the rights to draft Eric Metcalf, who we only had for 5 years. This is the prototypical example of why drafting the high WR is bad - because you don't recoup value if the player won't resign with you.
Good trade: 1985 supplemental draft we traded our 1985 first and third, 1986 first and sixth for Buffalo -- for the rights to Bernie Kosar.
Bad trades:
2004 we traded a second-round and a first-round to Detroit for future Hall-Of-Famer Kellen Winslow II. Detroit was in the middle of defining Matt Millen as arguably the single worst GM of all time, but throwing a first and a second for a TE.. is stupidity of the highest order.
2008 we traded a second and a first for future Hall-Of-Famer Brady Quinn.
2011 we traded away Julio Jones for the poo-poo platter of Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic, and Greg Little.
1989 first, second, fifth, ninth round for the rights to draft Eric Metcalf, who we only had for 5 years. This is the prototypical example of why drafting the high WR is bad - because you don't recoup value if the player won't resign with you.
Good trade: 1985 supplemental draft we traded our 1985 first and third, 1986 first and sixth for Buffalo -- for the rights to Bernie Kosar.
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Bad trades:
2004 we traded a second-round and a first-round to Detroit for future Hall-Of-Famer Kellen Winslow II. Detroit was in the middle of defining Matt Millen as arguably the single worst GM of all time, but throwing a first and a second for a TE.. is stupidity of the highest order.
2008 we traded a second and a first for future Hall-Of-Famer Brady Quinn.
2011 we traded away Julio Jones for the poo-poo platter of Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic, and Greg Little.
1989 first, second, fifth, ninth round for the rights to draft Eric Metcalf, who we only had for 5 years. This is the prototypical example of why drafting the high WR is bad - because you don't recoup value if the player won't resign with you.
Good trade: 1985 supplemental draft we traded our 1985 first and third, 1986 first and sixth for Buffalo -- for the rights to Bernie Kosar.
Bad trades:
2004 we traded a second-round and a first-round to Detroit for future Hall-Of-Famer Kellen Winslow II. Detroit was in the middle of defining Matt Millen as arguably the single worst GM of all time, but throwing a first and a second for a TE.. is stupidity of the highest order.
2008 we traded a second and a first for future Hall-Of-Famer Brady Quinn.
2011 we traded away Julio Jones for the poo-poo platter of Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic, and Greg Little.
1989 first, second, fifth, ninth round for the rights to draft Eric Metcalf, who we only had for 5 years. This is the prototypical example of why drafting the high WR is bad - because you don't recoup value if the player won't resign with you.
Good trade: 1985 supplemental draft we traded our 1985 first and third, 1986 first and sixth for Buffalo -- for the rights to Bernie Kosar.
I'm pretty sure the poo-poo platter also contains Brandon Weeden.
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I really need this coming season to be a great one, so we can
put the past so many years' bad history to rest.
It's like getting poison ivy every fall, and it wasn't my fault.......
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Bad trades:
2004 we traded a second-round and a first-round to Detroit for future Hall-Of-Famer Kellen Winslow II. Detroit was in the middle of defining Matt Millen as arguably the single worst GM of all time, but throwing a first and a second for a TE.. is stupidity of the highest order.
2008 we traded a second and a first for future Hall-Of-Famer Brady Quinn.
2011 we traded away Julio Jones for the poo-poo platter of Phil Taylor, Owen Marecic, and Greg Little.
1989 first, second, fifth, ninth round for the rights to draft Eric Metcalf, who we only had for 5 years. This is the prototypical example of why drafting the high WR is bad - because you don't recoup value if the player won't resign with you.
Good trade: 1985 supplemental draft we traded our 1985 first and third, 1986 first and sixth for Buffalo -- for the rights to Bernie Kosar.
I'm pretty sure the poo-poo platter also contains Brandon Weeden.
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