Ohio: The bandwagon state
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So....you value loyalty so little that you think it is OK for someone to willy nilly bandwagon jump from team to team based on the mere fortune or misfortunes of winning or losing some games?
Yes....to an extent the serious part of this is how younger generations lack the character to be and stay loyal to a team when times are rough. I do believe it may say something about their greater character.
To take it to a maybe not too absurd extreme, you could correlate people with that character to the collaborators or Quislings of WWII. Sure, it sounds absurd....but when faced with hardship, those people jumped their loyalties...why not the same with the FRAKS?
I mean....take your next door neighbor...or your nephew...or some such. If the Steelers had a couple of bad seasons and the Browns had some good seasons, would you feel it is OK for them to announce "ya know, the Steelers are lousy....I am now going to be a Browns...or a Ravens fans"
I would certainly hope that would not sit well with you.
Loyalty? We're talking about who you want to win in a football game on Sunday. You take it too personally. I could care less who you root for or why. It doesn't affect me. That's all I'm saying. It's just a sport, who someone's favorite team is doesn't matter to me. I don't measure someone's character by it that's for sure.
Loyalty? We're talking about who you want to win in a football game on Sunday.
Yes, Loyalty.
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You take it too personally.
Not really.....again, I think it exhibits a lack of character to be a person whose loyalty can be purchased by a few wins.
I could care less who you root for or why. It doesn't affect me. That's all I'm saying.
I don't care who you root for either....but I would not want you to be such a namby pamby ass that something as important as your loyalty is for sale.
It's just a sport, who someone's favorite team is doesn't matter to me. I don't measure someone's character by it that's for sure.
Again....its not the "Who" they root for that is important......I hate the Steelers, but I respect someone who would in fact be a loyal Steeler fan through thick and thin.....maybe you are one of those.
I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin. OK, so we know that someone like that is a whore....we just have to figure out what their price is.
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So....you value loyalty so little that you think it is OK for someone to willy nilly bandwagon jump from team to team based on the mere fortune or misfortunes of winning or losing some games?
Yes....to an extent the serious part of this is how younger generations lack the character to be and stay loyal to a team when times are rough. I do believe it may say something about their greater character.
You assume everyone has the same interest in football that you do. There are many more passive football fans than people who sit on message boards all day debating why there are people in the Carolinas who like the Steelers instead of the Browns. To demonize a 15 year old kid in Youngstown who can't relate to his grandfather that habitually kicks his dog every Sunday at 4:00 after watching 3 hours of mostly crappy football and chooses to root for the Steelers is a little over the top don't you think? He's a "asshole idiot"? Context my friend.
You assume everyone has the same interest in football that you do. There are many more passive football fans than people who sit on message boards all day debating why there are people in the Carolinas who like the Steelers instead of the Browns. To demonize a 15 year old kid in Youngstown who can't relate to his grandfather that habitually kicks his dog every Sunday at 4:00 after watching 3 hours of mostly crappy football and chooses to root for the Steelers is a little over the top don't you think? He's a "asshole idiot"? Context my friend.
I would expect that kid to to not have respect for his grandfather for kicking the dog, no matter who the grandpa roots for. If the Grandfather is committing animal cruelty I would hope the kid would call him on it.
But That has nothing to do with football.
But yes....I would say that the kid IS an asshole if he says to himself "my grandad kicks my dog, my grandad is a Browns fan....ergo I will be a Steeler fan".
That would be stupid as shit.
If his Dad was a Steeler fan and kicked the dog.... would I expect him to be a Browns fan? No.
I would expect that because he is from Youngstown....not because his grandpa is an asshole.
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Also....I still never got an explanation on how the Steelers were apparently so popular in the Carolinas....and why they are now losing that popularity?
I can see the latter half being primarily explained by the presence....and somewhat success of the local Carolina Panther team...but what about the former question?
I am not ragging on anyone....I just would like to figure it out.
I have no idea why the Steelers are or aren't popular in the Carolinas. Been to Myrtle Beach a few times and seen Steeler bars there. Who knows? They are a popular team. When the Browns win the division a few times and maybe a Super Bowl they'll gain popularity. It only makes sense. Look at table 3 in this poll. Can you make any correlation between winning and popularity?
I have no idea why the Steelers are or aren't popular in the Carolinas. Been to Myrtle Beach a few times and seen Steeler bars there. Who knows? They are a popular team. When the Browns win the division a few times and maybe a Super Bowl they'll gain popularity. It only makes sense. Look at table 3 in this poll. Can you make any correlation between winning and popularity?
I have no doubt that there is a correlation between winning and popularity.
Also, being from a very large market should help.
Face it, there are 20+million people in the NYC area.....that would be 10 mill each for their two teams.
Cleveland/Pittsburgh only have 2.5-3 mill in their area. That means there is 3-4 times the base from which the NYC fans attract than there is for the Browns/Steelers.
But clearly winning helps with the FRAK factor.
Do you think the Steelers would be popular if they continued the losing ways of Art Rooney and did not enjoy the winning ways or Dan Rooney? No
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I have no idea why the Steelers are or aren't popular in the Carolinas. Been to Myrtle Beach a few times and seen Steeler bars there. Who knows? They are a popular team. When the Browns win the division a few times and maybe a Super Bowl they'll gain popularity. It only makes sense. Look at table 3 in this poll. Can you make any correlation between winning and popularity?
I have no doubt that there is a correlation between winning and popularity.
Also, being from a very large market should help.
Face it, there are 20+million people in the NYC area.....that would be 10 mill each for their two teams.
Cleveland/Pittsburgh only have 2.5-3 mill in their area. That means there is 3-4 times the base from which the NYC fans attract than there is for the Browns/Steelers.
But clearly winning helps with the FRAK factor.
Do you think the Steelers would be popular if they continued the losing ways of Art Rooney and did not enjoy the winning ways or Dan Rooney? No
I have no doubt that there is a correlation between winning and popularity.
Also, being from a very large market should help.
Face it, there are 20+million people in the NYC area.....that would be 10 mill each for their two teams.
Cleveland/Pittsburgh only have 2.5-3 mill in their area. That means there is 3-4 times the base from which the NYC fans attract than there is for the Browns/Steelers.
But clearly winning helps with the FRAK factor.
Do you think the Steelers would be popular if they continued the losing ways of Art Rooney and did not enjoy the winning ways or Dan Rooney? No
The Steelers would maintain popularity until their fanbase gets old and dies off, just like the Browns. People are people. Football is important in cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Green Bay but people only have a limited tolerance for losing. At some point people lose interest if there's nothing rewarding by watching their team. It's human nature. You obviously don't feel that way, you're a diehard who lived through the good times. You're sticking around to experience it again. Not everyone can maintain the same level of obsession as you. There are too many other things to do. If you're 20 years old you've never experienced your team being a powerhouse if you're a Browns fan. You've only felt the occasional division win followed by a whole lot of losing and despair. I understand and I'm sure you do too. I can empathize with people like that. YOU just don't tolerate it. I see that in your posts obviously.
I've seen Cleveland stadium empty out during Steelers games. It's not because they aren't good fans. They just can't stomach losing. Hell, I left the playoff game when Pittsburgh was losing to Cleveland back when Holcomb was your qb. I couldn't watch it any more. I missed the comeback. It didn't make me any less of a Steeler fan, it just affected me THAT much. Now forever and ever I'm that dude who missed one of the greatest comebacks in team playoff history.
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You assume everyone has the same interest in football that you do. There are many more passive football fans than people who sit on message boards all day debating why there are people in the Carolinas who like the Steelers instead of the Browns. To demonize a 15 year old kid in Youngstown who can't relate to his grandfather that habitually kicks his dog every Sunday at 4:00 after watching 3 hours of mostly crappy football and chooses to root for the Steelers is a little over the top don't you think? He's a "asshole idiot"? Context my friend.
I would expect that kid to to not have respect for his grandfather for kicking the dog, no matter who the grandpa roots for. If the Grandfather is committing animal cruelty I would hope the kid would call him on it.
But That has nothing to do with football.
But yes....I would say that the kid IS an asshole if he says to himself "my grandad kicks my dog, my grandad is a Browns fan....ergo I will be a Steeler fan".
That would be stupid as shit.
If his Dad was a Steeler fan and kicked the dog.... would I expect him to be a Browns fan? No.
I would expect that because he is from Youngstown....not because his grandpa is an asshole.
I would expect that kid to to not have respect for his grandfather for kicking the dog, no matter who the grandpa roots for. If the Grandfather is committing animal cruelty I would hope the kid would call him on it.
But That has nothing to do with football.
But yes....I would say that the kid IS an asshole if he says to himself "my grandad kicks my dog, my grandad is a Browns fan....ergo I will be a Steeler fan".
That would be stupid as shit.
If his Dad was a Steeler fan and kicked the dog.... would I expect him to be a Browns fan? No.
I would expect that because he is from Youngstown....not because his grandpa is an asshole.
I was being metaphoric about the dog. My point is I can relate to a 15yr old kid who choses a winning team over a losing one even if he was born into a family of a certain team's fans.
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Loyalty? We're talking about who you want to win in a football game on Sunday.
Yes, Loyalty.
\
You take it too personally.
Not really.....again, I think it exhibits a lack of character to be a person whose loyalty can be purchased by a few wins.
I could care less who you root for or why. It doesn't affect me. That's all I'm saying.
I don't care who you root for either....but I would not want you to be such a namby pamby ass that something as important as your loyalty is for sale.
It's just a sport, who someone's favorite team is doesn't matter to me. I don't measure someone's character by it that's for sure.
Again....its not the "Who" they root for that is important......I hate the Steelers, but I respect someone who would in fact be a loyal Steeler fan through thick and thin.....maybe you are one of those.
I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin. OK, so we know that someone like that is a whore....we just have to figure out what their price is.
Loyalty? We're talking about who you want to win in a football game on Sunday.
Yes, Loyalty.
But there's a huge difference in loyalty to a sports team and loyalty in matters of real importance. An unloyal fan isn't deserving of a "fucking asshole idiot" title in my opinion.
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You take it too personally.
Not really.....again, I think it exhibits a lack of character to be a person whose loyalty can be purchased by a few wins.
You really do take it to seriously. It's sports, not loyalty to your brother or your mom.
I could care less who you root for or why. It doesn't affect me. That's all I'm saying.
I don't care who you root for either....but I would not want you to be such a namby pamby ass that something as important as your loyalty is for sale.
I don't have a scale for my loyalty, but then again I have free will and so does everyone else. Who are you to judge?
It's just a sport, who someone's favorite team is doesn't matter to me. I don't measure someone's character by it that's for sure.
Again....its not the "Who" they root for that is important......I hate the Steelers, but I respect someone who would in fact be a loyal Steeler fan through thick and thin.....maybe you are one of those.
I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin. OK, so we know that someone like that is a whore....we just have to figure out what their price is.
If I said I can't respect a woman who's loyal to her husband even though he's an asshat who makes her life miserable by being an abusive alcoholic, would you disagree or would you admire her?
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Living in Carolina, here's the Sports bar tidbits I have heard:: Great Golf, fishing, weather and a ocean helps but the growth that the Raleigh, Durham area has had from the 9-11 era and the New Jersey Hurricane area's a lot of their business's let their people transfer to this area and there not leaving. Steeler fans were here when I got here in 85 they were job transfers that never left due to the closest southern area to miss the bad winters and now we get more snow and ice than ever before. Please take them Back.. Till then our Browns Gear fly high..
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Living in Carolina, here's the Sports bar tidbits I have heard:: Great Golf, fishing, weather and a ocean helps but the growth that the Raleigh, Durham area has had from the 9-11 era and the New Jersey Hurricane area's a lot of their business's let their people transfer to this area and there not leaving. Steeler fans were here when I got here in 85 they were job transfers that never left due to the closest southern area to miss the bad winters and now we get more snow and ice than ever before. Please take them Back.. Till then our Browns Gear fly high..
Living in Carolina, here's the Sports bar tidbits I have heard:: Great Golf, fishing, weather and a ocean helps but the growth that the Raleigh, Durham area has had from the 9-11 era and the New Jersey Hurricane area's a lot of their business's let their people transfer to this area and there not leaving. Steeler fans were here when I got here in 85 they were job transfers that never left due to the closest southern area to miss the bad winters and now we get more snow and ice than ever before. Please take them Back.. Till then our Browns Gear fly high..
Raleigh/Durham is on the ocean?
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Steeler fans dominate possum-eating Appalachia. And few inbred outposts. The map seems to show the Browns overtook the Steelers in the Columbus area. So? I am a Browns fan but not an OSU fan, I dont expect everyone in Columbus to be a Browns fan. They have a choice ... and it looks like the current generation is smartening up over their front-running coward daddies.
Z
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Loyalty? We're talking about who you want to win in a football game on Sunday.
Yes, Loyalty.
\
You take it too personally.
Not really.....again, I think it exhibits a lack of character to be a person whose loyalty can be purchased by a few wins.
I could care less who you root for or why. It doesn't affect me. That's all I'm saying.
I don't care who you root for either....but I would not want you to be such a namby pamby ass that something as important as your loyalty is for sale.
It's just a sport, who someone's favorite team is doesn't matter to me. I don't measure someone's character by it that's for sure.
Again....its not the "Who" they root for that is important......I hate the Steelers, but I respect someone who would in fact be a loyal Steeler fan through thick and thin.....maybe you are one of those.
I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin. OK, so we know that someone like that is a whore....we just have to figure out what their price is.
I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin.
That said, Steeler fans have yet to be put to that test. There has been a lot of thick, not much thin.
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Steeler fans dominate possum-eating Appalachia. And few inbred outposts. The map seems to show the Browns overtook the Steelers in the Columbus area. So? I am a Browns fan but not an OSU fan, I dont expect everyone in Columbus to be a Browns fan. They have a choice ... and it looks like the current generation is smartening up over their front-running coward daddies.
Z
Zombo said:
The map seems to show the Browns overtook the Steelers in the Columbus area. So?
So? That's the point of the thread.
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Living in Carolina, here's the Sports bar tidbits I have heard:: Great Golf, fishing, weather and a ocean helps but the growth that the Raleigh, Durham area has had from the 9-11 era and the New Jersey Hurricane area's a lot of their business's let their people transfer to this area and there not leaving. Steeler fans were here when I got here in 85 they were job transfers that never left due to the closest southern area to miss the bad winters and now we get more snow and ice than ever before. Please take them Back.. Till then our Browns Gear fly high..
Raleigh/Durham is on the ocean?
Raleigh/Durham is on the ocean?
2 hour drive. Is perfect distance from tourist towns on coast. (believe me lived on beach 2 yrs.enough) and bigger business region for family income all 1 1/2 to 2 hours away.
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Zombo said:
The map seems to show the Browns overtook the Steelers in the Columbus area. So?
So? That's the point of the thread.
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Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!
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Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!
Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!
Yeah, when you're talking about who has more fans in Columbus and Harrisburg the season needs to start like right now.
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Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!
Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!
Indeed!....but seeing CLE fans fighting amongst each other is amusing as well.
You would think CLE fans would want PIT fans here to take their anger out on LOL!
Seriously though, I think it will be an extremely competitive down to the wire ype season, this time the Browns will be a part of it.
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I have no doubt that there is a correlation between winning and popularity.
Also, being from a very large market should help.
Face it, there are 20+million people in the NYC area.....that would be 10 mill each for their two teams.
Cleveland/Pittsburgh only have 2.5-3 mill in their area. That means there is 3-4 times the base from which the NYC fans attract than there is for the Browns/Steelers.
But clearly winning helps with the FRAK factor.
Do you think the Steelers would be popular if they continued the losing ways of Art Rooney and did not enjoy the winning ways or Dan Rooney? No
The Steelers would maintain popularity until their fanbase gets old and dies off, just like the Browns. People are people. Football is important in cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Green Bay but people only have a limited tolerance for losing. At some point people lose interest if there's nothing rewarding by watching their team. It's human nature. You obviously don't feel that way, you're a diehard who lived through the good times. You're sticking around to experience it again. Not everyone can maintain the same level of obsession as you. There are too many other things to do. If you're 20 years old you've never experienced your team being a powerhouse if you're a Browns fan. You've only felt the occasional division win followed by a whole lot of losing and despair. I understand and I'm sure you do too. I can empathize with people like that. YOU just don't tolerate it. I see that in your posts obviously.
I've seen Cleveland stadium empty out during Steelers games. It's not because they aren't good fans. They just can't stomach losing. Hell, I left the playoff game when Pittsburgh was losing to Cleveland back when Holcomb was your qb. I couldn't watch it any more. I missed the comeback. It didn't make me any less of a Steeler fan, it just affected me THAT much. Now forever and ever I'm that dude who missed one of the greatest comebacks in team playoff history.
The Steelers would maintain popularity until their fanbase gets old and dies off, just like the Browns. People are people. Football is important in cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Green Bay but people only have a limited tolerance for losing. At some point people lose interest if there's nothing rewarding by watching their team. It's human nature. You obviously don't feel that way, you're a diehard who lived through the good times. You're sticking around to experience it again. Not everyone can maintain the same level of obsession as you. There are too many other things to do. If you're 20 years old you've never experienced your team being a powerhouse if you're a Browns fan. You've only felt the occasional division win followed by a whole lot of losing and despair. I understand and I'm sure you do too. I can empathize with people like that. YOU just don't tolerate it. I see that in your posts obviously.
Actually, I do know just what you speak of.....I lived through 35 years of bad Cleveland Indians baseball....never seeing a sniff of postseason from like 1960 until they started doing something in the mid 90s.
So, yes....it IS possible for a person to be loyal to a team beginning when he is single digits in age until he reaches his 40s before that team starts winning. (But...yes...it is actually harder to keep up with them after they won for a while then drop back down again.)
So, correct, no, I don't tolerate bandwagon jumpers.
It was just the opposite for the Browns. They were winners from when I was a kid until my mid 20s when they had a bad streak (which happened to coincide with the Steelers good streak). But they came back soon in the 80s.
I've seen Cleveland stadium empty out during Steelers games. It's not because they aren't good fans. They just can't stomach losing. Hell, I left the playoff game when Pittsburgh was losing to Cleveland back when Holcomb was your qb. I couldn't watch it any more. I missed the comeback. It didn't make me any less of a Steeler fan, it just affected me THAT much. Now forever and ever I'm that dude who missed one of the greatest comebacks in team playoff history.
Well, at least the Browns fans were there in the first place.
As for that comeback....you can thank Butch Davis for going into the prevent defense in the middle of the third quarter. The Steelers came back because Butch enabled them to. (plus you can thank Dennis Northcutt for dropping what would have been the game clinching catch.....had he caught it...first down...game over. He dropped it...Browns had to punt...Steelers mounted game winning drive in final minute.
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I would expect that kid to to not have respect for his grandfather for kicking the dog, no matter who the grandpa roots for. If the Grandfather is committing animal cruelty I would hope the kid would call him on it.
But That has nothing to do with football.
But yes....I would say that the kid IS an asshole if he says to himself "my grandad kicks my dog, my grandad is a Browns fan....ergo I will be a Steeler fan".
That would be stupid as shit.
If his Dad was a Steeler fan and kicked the dog.... would I expect him to be a Browns fan? No.
I would expect that because he is from Youngstown....not because his grandpa is an asshole.
I was being metaphoric about the dog. My point is I can relate to a 15yr old kid who choses a winning team over a losing one even if he was born into a family of a certain team's fans.
I was being metaphoric about the dog. My point is I can relate to a 15yr old kid who choses a winning team over a losing one even if he was born into a family of a certain team's fans.
OK, I am not a fan of it. It exhibits FRAK behavior...which you now know to me means a lack of character.
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I do NOT respect a Steeler fans who would be loyal through the thick, but not the thin.
That said, Steeler fans have yet to be put to that test. There has been a lot of thick, not much thin.
Stuart said:
That said, Steeler fans have yet to be put to that test. There has been a lot of thick, not much thin.
Correctamundo......here's to having that test come soon
OK, pretty lame sound effect.
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Now this is what I like to see. CLE and PIT fighting on the board. It can only mean we're getting close folks!
Yeah, when you're talking about who has more fans in Columbus and Harrisburg the season needs to start like right now.
Yeah, when you're talking about who has more fans in Columbus and Harrisburg the season needs to start like right now.
Go look at the thread on Schizophrenic cities.....it deals exactly with this subject. This issue may not seem important to us in the heart of Browns country or in the heart of Steeler country.....but it seems an issue for the folks in those parts.
To PA it may be no big thing whether Harrisburg is Steeler or Eagle backers....as it is such a small market compared to Philly and Pitt. But Columbus is a different deal in this state as though the entire market still is 3rd behind Cleve/Cinci...it is not that far behind. So it is a big segment of the state.
To NFL teams the important thing of course is money. Can the Browns outtrump the Bengals for the Columbus NFL dollar? That is what these team execs worry about. It may not be as big as Can the Steelers outtrump the Eagles for the Harrisburg dollar? Just not as many dollars at stake.
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