Weakened Weaknesses
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Nicker's look at it the right way. look at the sorry QB's we have brought in and still looked competitive (a OL). We send them elsewhere their out of the league in a year. 1 Exception Derek Anderson.
there's no doubt the browns org's record at drafting QBs is dismal. the jury is still out on manziel (for some), but i really wouldn't attach that pick with farmer as we all know who wanted the kid (haslam).
yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years. easier said than done, but if anyone can draft a nobody and turn him into a solid starter i believe farmer can and i wouldn't bet against him throwing a lot of picks to move up and grap one of the top 3 QBs in next year's draft along with a blue chip WR.
yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years.
That's happened exactly once in our history... and, yes, his name was Otto.
But for injury, Dr. Frank might have made it two.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
That's happened exactly once in our history... and, yes, his name was Otto.
But for injury, Dr. Frank might have made it two.
If you are talking about the Browns drafting a QB.....neither Graham nor Ryan were drafted by the Browns. Graham was drafted in 1944 by the Lions....but he first served in the military then chose to go with Paul Brown as a free agent.
Ryan was drafted by the Rams. Browns traded like a 3rd round pick for him later.
The one Browns QB draftee that had the longest tenure was Brian Sipe....13th rounder, and he was here for exactly 10 years.
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Nicker's look at it the right way. look at the sorry QB's we have brought in and still looked competitive (a OL). We send them elsewhere their out of the league in a year. 1 Exception Derek Anderson.
there's no doubt the browns org's record at drafting QBs is dismal. the jury is still out on manziel (for some), but i really wouldn't attach that pick with farmer as we all know who wanted the kid (haslam).
yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years. easier said than done, but if anyone can draft a nobody and turn him into a solid starter i believe farmer can and i wouldn't bet against him throwing a lot of picks to move up and grap one of the top 3 QBs in next year's draft along with a blue chip WR.
there's no doubt the browns org's record at drafting QBs is dismal. the jury is still out on manziel (for some), but i really wouldn't attach that pick with farmer as we all know who wanted the kid (haslam).
yes they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years. easier said than done, but if anyone can draft a nobody and turn him into a solid starter i believe farmer can and i wouldn't bet against him throwing a lot of picks to move up and grap one of the top 3 QBs in next year's draft along with a blue chip WR.
Totally agree. The Farmer/Pettine Plan is clear. Year one, Farmer had no trust in using old regime scouts in 2014. Both got by finding their own needs and Farmer after 2014 draft put in his own scouts in place. His West Coast scout really may have Shined in 2015 draft. Shelton, Mayle, Orchard, Pullard, Expre and Telfer. In 2016, I see the same as most QB and playmaker WR. There is a Big, Pro Style Offense QB at Cal that am pretty sure we will scout with our guy named Jared Goff. I got my eyes on watching his tape now and He's got my attention going into 2016 college season. Cardell Jones, hold that thought for now??
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Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z. Mr. Gipper
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Numbers represent the dismal talent of the team around him.
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That's happened exactly once in our history... and, yes, his name was Otto.
But for injury, Dr. Frank might have made it two.
If you are talking about the Browns drafting a QB.....neither Graham nor Ryan were drafted by the Browns. Graham was drafted in 1944 by the Lions....but he first served in the military then chose to go with Paul Brown as a free agent.
Ryan was drafted by the Rams. Browns traded like a 3rd round pick for him later.
The one Browns QB draftee that had the longest tenure was Brian Sipe....13th rounder, and he was here for exactly 10 years.
If you are talking about the Browns drafting a QB.
they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years.
There's only been one ten-year starter in our history.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z. Mr. Gipper
****************************************************
Numbers represent the dismal talent of the team around him.
Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z. Mr. Gipper
****************************************************
Numbers represent the dismal talent of the team around him.
If Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson from that same era can't make HOF, then Archie certainly wouldn't be considered.
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If you are talking about the Browns drafting a QB.
they need to find a QB that will start for them the next 10 years.
There's only been one ten-year starter in our history.
There's only been one ten-year starter in our history.
OK, misunderstood. Here is the roster of how many years a particular QB was the primary starting QB for the Browns (i.e started the most games in a particular season):
Otto Graham 10 years
Brian Sipe 8 years
Bernie Kosar 7 years
Frank Ryan 6 years
Milt Plum 4 years
Bill Nelsen 4 years
Mike Phipps 4 years
Tim Couch 4 years
Vinny Testaverde 3 years
Tommy O'Connell 2 years
Derek Anderson 2 years
Colt McCoy 2 years
Paul McDonald, Mike Tomscak, Kelly Holcomb, Jeff Garcia, Charlie Frye, Trent Dilfer, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Jason Campbell, and Brian Hoyer 1 year each
Of these 10 one year wonders....only McDonald and Tomscak preceded "The Move". The other 8 have all been since 1999.
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Zombo would argue with you that Archie was NOT such a great QB. The numbers support Z. Mr. Gipper
****************************************************
Numbers represent the dismal talent of the team around him.
If Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson from that same era can't make HOF, then Archie certainly wouldn't be considered.
If Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson from that same era can't make HOF, then Archie certainly wouldn't be considered.
HOF is basically reserved for the top 1%....and Id say none of those guys fit that mold....
Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
300 new players enter the league every year and approx 3-4 get into the hall every year......it's easy math....
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If Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson from that same era can't make HOF, then Archie certainly wouldn't be considered.
HOF is basically reserved for the top 1%....and Id say none of those guys fit that mold....
Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
300 new players enter the league every year and approx 3-4 get into the hall every year......it's easy math....
HOF is basically reserved for the top 1%....and Id say none of those guys fit that mold....
Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
300 new players enter the league every year and approx 3-4 get into the hall every year......it's easy math....
Here is a way I see it....a potential HOF QB comes along about once every two years....and maybe a sure fire HOF once every 3-4 years.
Take the last 25 years since 1990. As I see it the only QBs that could even sniff a HOF election are as follows:
By decade: 1990s
1991 Brett Favre
1993 Drew Bledsoe
1995 Steve McNair
1998 Peyton Manning
1999 Donovan McNabb
of these....only Favre and Manning are sure things the others are unlikely....that makes just 2 in that decade
Plus the 1990s produced Kurt Warner....a probable. So make that just 3 HOF QBs produced during the 1990 decade
2000 Tom Brady
2001 Drew Brees
2003 Carson Palmer
2004 Roethlisberger/Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers
2005 Aaron Rodgers
2008 Matt Ryan
this decade produced more probably 4 sure things, plus 2 high maybes plus a couple of borderline and below.
2011 Cam Newton
2012 Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson
Halfway through the 2010 decade and so far just possibles. All these guys need to do more imo to basically cement HOF consideration.
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Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
Actually, lets examine this to this point: How many HOF QBs were drafted in the 1970s/80s. Here they are....and your statement of there being like 15 is way too high:
1970 Terry Bradshaw
1973 Dan Fouts
1979 Joe Montana
1983 Marino, Elway, Kelly
1984 Steve Young
1989 Troy Aikman
plus in 1984 Warren Moon came in. That is 9 HOF QBs in a 20 year period.
Which I think will be the same number when it comes down to it for HOF QBs in the 1990-2010 period:
Favre, P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, BR, plus Eli, Rivers...outside chances.
Maybe when you say 70s QBs you refer to QBs that came out in the 60s but played in the 70s that are HOF. There are only 4 names on that list:
Griese
Namath
Staubach
Tarkenton
So, to an extent, I think you are right. Players that some may consider great have been passed up.
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HOF is basically reserved for the top 1%....and Id say none of those guys fit that mold....
Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
300 new players enter the league every year and approx 3-4 get into the hall every year......it's easy math....
Here is a way I see it....a potential HOF QB comes along about once every two years....and maybe a sure fire HOF once every 3-4 years.
Take the last 25 years since 1990. As I see it the only QBs that could even sniff a HOF election are as follows:
By decade: 1990s
1991 Brett Favre
1993 Drew Bledsoe
1995 Steve McNair
1998 Peyton Manning
1999 Donovan McNabb
of these....only Favre and Manning are sure things the others are unlikely....that makes just 2 in that decade
Plus the 1990s produced Kurt Warner....a probable. So make that just 3 HOF QBs produced during the 1990 decade
2000 Tom Brady
2001 Drew Brees
2003 Carson Palmer
2004 Roethlisberger/Eli Manning/Phillip Rivers
2005 Aaron Rodgers
2008 Matt Ryan
this decade produced more probably 4 sure things, plus 2 high maybes plus a couple of borderline and below.
2011 Cam Newton
2012 Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson
Halfway through the 2010 decade and so far just possibles. All these guys need to do more imo to basically cement HOF consideration.
Here is a way I see it....a potential HOF QB comes along about once every two years....and maybe a sure fire HOF once every 3-4 years.
yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's...
There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there....
There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???.....
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Here is the list of players who are or could be HOF eligible who had a PFR Career Production average of 99 or above that are not in the HOF:
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Ken Anderson
John Hadl
Drew Bledsoe
Steve McNair
Donovan McNabb
Rich Gannon
John Brodie.
Here is the next rung: QBs who scored in the 90s production wise who are not in HOF:
Marc Brunell
Trent Green
Vinny Testaverde
Phil Simms
Steve Grogan
Ken Stabler
Roman Gabriel
I know some people here say that none of the above should be put in. I may be a bit more liberal.
Note on this: Active QBs already over 100: Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, BR, Rodgers
Active QBs in the 90s range so far: Eli: 96 Michael Vick 92
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Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
Actually, lets examine this to this point: How many HOF QBs were drafted in the 1970s/80s. Here they are....and your statement of there being like 15 is way too high:
1970 Terry Bradshaw
1973 Dan Fouts
1979 Joe Montana
1983 Marino, Elway, Kelly
1984 Steve Young
1989 Troy Aikman
plus in 1984 Warren Moon came in. That is 9 HOF QBs in a 20 year period.
Which I think will be the same number when it comes down to it for HOF QBs in the 1990-2010 period:
Favre, P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, BR, plus Eli, Rivers...outside chances.
Maybe when you say 70s QBs you refer to QBs that came out in the 60s but played in the 70s that are HOF. There are only 4 names on that list:
Griese
Namath
Staubach
Tarkenton
So, to an extent, I think you are right. Players that some may consider great have been passed up.
Great players get passed up all the time, because its only for the greatEST of the great.....there are already like 15 QB's from the 70's and 80's in the HOF, so how many "greatest ever" can there be beyond that?.....
Actually, lets examine this to this point: How many HOF QBs were drafted in the 1970s/80s. Here they are....and your statement of there being like 15 is way too high:
Yep...that was off the top of my head. Went and looked and the actual # is 12.
1970 Terry Bradshaw
1973 Dan Fouts
1979 Joe Montana
1983 Marino, Elway, Kelly
1984 Steve Young
1989 Troy Aikman
plus in 1984 Warren Moon came in. That is 9 HOF QBs in a 20 year period.
Which I think will be the same number when it comes down to it for HOF QBs in the 1990-2010 period:
Favre, P. Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Warner, BR, plus Eli, Rivers...outside chances.
Maybe when you say 70s QBs you refer to QBs that came out in the 60s but played in the 70s that are HOF. There are only 4 names on that list:
Griese
Namath
Staubach
Tarkenton
Yes....had these guys as 70's players.....
So, to an extent, I think you are right. Players that some may consider great have been passed up.
Right...And, as Ive said in the past, I personally wouldnt put all these QB in, over so many greats that aren't in yet......
Im much more of a stickler on this stuff....
Here is the list of players who are or could be HOF eligible who had a PFR Career Production average of 99 or above that are not in the HOF:
Randall Cunningham
Boomer Esiason
Ken Anderson
John Hadl
Drew Bledsoe
Steve McNair
Donovan McNabb
Rich Gannon
John Brodie.
Here is the next rung: QBs who scored in the 90s production wise who are not in HOF:
Marc Brunell
Trent Green
Vinny Testaverde
Phil Simms
Steve Grogan
Ken Stabler
Roman Gabriel
I know some people here say that none of the above should be put in. I may be a bit more liberal.
That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^
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Here is a way I see it....a potential HOF QB comes along about once every two years....and maybe a sure fire HOF once every 3-4 years.
yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's...
There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there....
There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???.....
yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's...
There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there....
There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???.....
yeah...but in my world, thats wayyyy too frequent and QB's get elevated above other greats, just because they are QB's...
There are 22 positions and should be an equal ratio of greatness throughout those 22 positions represented in the HOF....but there isnt......I say a disproportionate number of skill players are in there....
There are barely even 2 good QB's that get drafted every year, so how could there be a HOFer every 2 years???.....
Well, I actually think you get your wish to some extent. As noted, in the 90s there are only 3 sure things, Favre, Peyton and probably Warner. In the 5 years from 2005 to 2009....only one guy: Rodgers. The first half had more...but you can't deny their quality, can you?
The entire decade of the 70s had just 3 HOFers drafted. Fouts, Bradshaw and Montana. The 80s had more...but there too, you cannot deny their quality.
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That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^
I could probably see 3-4. Like Stabler/Anderson/Hadl....maybe
On Anderson, per the PFR, there have only been 10 QBs in history considered more "productive" than he was. Peyton, Favre, Brady, Tarkenton, Marino, Brees, Elway, Young, Montana, Fouts.
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That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^
I could probably see 3-4. Like Stabler/Anderson/Hadl....maybe
On Anderson, per the PFR, there have only been 10 QBs in history considered more "productive" than he was. Peyton, Favre, Brady, Tarkenton, Marino, Brees, Elway, Young, Montana, Fouts.
That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^
I could probably see 3-4. Like Stabler/Anderson/Hadl....maybe
On Anderson, per the PFR, there have only been 10 QBs in history considered more "productive" than he was. Peyton, Favre, Brady, Tarkenton, Marino, Brees, Elway, Young, Montana, Fouts.
I like Anderson the best from that list and would pick him from that group if I had to choose one.....he was always kinda low profile, but definitely an excellent QB......
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That would be me....cause I dont see a HOF QB on that list......^^^^^
I could probably see 3-4. Like Stabler/Anderson/Hadl....maybe
On Anderson, per the PFR, there have only been 10 QBs in history considered more "productive" than he was. Peyton, Favre, Brady, Tarkenton, Marino, Brees, Elway, Young, Montana, Fouts.
I like Anderson the best from that list and would pick him from that group if I had to choose one.....he was always kinda low profile, but definitely an excellent QB......
I like Anderson the best from that list and would pick him from that group if I had to choose one.....he was always kinda low profile, but definitely an excellent QB......
OK....but....can I ask you a question?
Why do you pick the absolute ugliest guys on the Browns to use as your avatar. I mean, remember when I had the Fear the Roo bikini chick for my avatar.....pleasing to the eye. Your avatars, however, can be revolting!
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Bito? Revolting? Shame on you. sir...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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