Unofficial official preseason WR thread...
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If only there were a few mildly intelligent fellas around here who have been saying this from the beginning.
If only there were a few mildly intelligent fellas around here who have been saying this from the beginning.
Credit to you... you were there early. I was not there until the roster thread prompted a look at the benefits of a WR/QB.
Now here's a question: Can learning the passing game from the perspective of a WR make a QB better?
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yep...Pryor had another very good day....hasn't dropped a pass yet......running with the 2's....def kind of the talk of camp so far
He finally did go against Joe Haden and pretty much got schooled.....didnt get open.....0-0...
yep...Pryor had another very good day....hasn't dropped a pass yet......running with the 2's....def kind of the talk of camp so far
He finally did go against Joe Haden and pretty much got schooled.....didnt get open.....0-0...
Not surprising that Joe was able to blanket a tall, lanky, long-striding newb... look what he's done to tall, lanky, long-striding, vet #1's.
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Can you imagine what this team would be like with Terrelle Pryor, Josh Gordon, Charles Johnson and Taylor Gabriel out there?
By the way...in case you haven't heard, Charles Johnson is poised to tear it up this year. Reports out of Minnesota are that he's destroying it and is a solid contender for the #1 spot.
Just going to leave this here: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30091&hl=%22charles+johnson%22
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If only there were a few mildly intelligent fellas around here who have been saying this from the beginning.
Credit to you... you were there early. I was not there until the roster thread prompted a look at the benefits of a WR/QB.
Now here's a question: Can learning the passing game from the perspective of a WR make a QB better?
Credit to you... you were there early. I was not there until the roster thread prompted a look at the benefits of a WR/QB.
Now here's a question: Can learning the passing game from the perspective of a WR make a QB better?
I don't know that receiver experience makes you a better QB (it probably does), but I think having QB experience does make you a better receiver. See: Tannehill, Ryan in 2009 and early 2010. He knew exactly where the QB would be looking and where he was comfortable throwing to. As far as navigating the field and the defense, he was top-notch the first second he lined up outside. The route running, catching, etc. had to be learned.
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Ha!....Ill give you that one for sure......sounds like he turned a lot of heads for day 1.....
and he worked with the special teams coverage unit and was first man down several times....kinda surprised there...but sounds like he's got his head right and showing zero diva-ness....
It's hard to siphon through homer bullshit and actually determine when people have legitimate opinions, I'll grant you.
For instance:
I think Pryor is set up to succeed as a WR if he continues to put in the effort he has so far. I believe he is a perfect weapon for our offense, as he can double as an emergency QB. If he makes a splash on special teams and exhibits concentration and solid route running, Pryor will crack our 53. That's a legitimate opinion.
I think Tim Tebow will throw for 7,000 yards this season. That's my homer bullshit.
It's hard to siphon through homer bullshit and actually determine when people have legitimate opinions, I'll grant you.
For instance:
I think Pryor is set up to succeed as a WR if he continues to put in the effort he has so far. I believe he is a perfect weapon for our offense, as he can double as an emergency QB. If he makes a splash on special teams and exhibits concentration and solid route running, Pryor will crack our 53. That's a legitimate opinion.
I think Tim Tebow will throw for 7,000 yards this season. That's my homer bullshit.
TCPO, I thought you had some really interesting posts about our WR Corps, adding size to our red zone and what Pryor could potentially add to the position overall. I bet he can still run close to a 4.37 he was rumored to run once upon a time especially if he's training to play WR so that doesn't suck working in tandem with 6'4" (or as Gipper would say don't rule out 6'5"). I swim against the current about Travis Benjamin a little because I saw massive improvement in his receiving skills in the form of 17.4 ypc and where that ranks in the league as well as leading our WR Corps in TD receptions in part time work. All 3 of those were in the red zone, compared to previous years where he had to beat someone over the top with 4.3 speed. Every time we needed a clutch play in 2015 - he didn't remind us of Greg Scissorhands Little. He caught the freakin ball and and our chances to win lived another down (ie; the comeback in TN). My guess is that his psychological healing 2 years post surgery will get him back closer to the elite return guy we saw (pre-injury) in 2013. That might REALLY mean something if our STs coach ever has our return team understanding you can't block guys from behind.
I don't know who the final spot will go to per say. I used to think it might be between Benjamin and Pryor. However, it could end up being between Hartline and Benjamin. All of the WRs we added this offseason to strengthen our red zone and add size to our perimeter tells me we're keeping more than 5 this time around. Not only that, but wouldn't we have kept 6 last year IF Gordon & Miles could stay healthy/unsuspended at the same time?
This might be our 6:
Bowe
Hawkins
Gabriel
Mayle
Pryor
Benjamin or Hartline (whoever can apply to more situations is your winner here)
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I like Benjamin too Flugs, but he sure does seem like a solid candidate to get cut.
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I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
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I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
I could see it.
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I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
I could see it.
I could see it.
Do tell?
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They're both average and I could see Benjamin being slightly better for the reasons Flug cited.
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I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
I could see it.
I could see it.
Yep...me too.....as stated in post #1 of this thread.....I see him as a possible Nate Burleson - part deux....
I guess it boils down to upside vs production......and, IF, Mayle and Pryor show at least equal production to Hartline, Id think the younger players upside will buy them roster spots......
Benji.....not so sure where he falls.....but still have him on the bubble........sharing space with Hartline....
maybe they'll have to just keep more than 5 this year....
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I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
LOL! If you think that's bad - I was previously picking Benjamin over Pryor like I was starring in a "Just Say No" commercial. I've definitely worn my village idiot hat way more than I wanted to Royce. That said, an unproven 5'11" 202 lb rookie (Jarvis Landry) just took over Hartline's job in Miami regardless of excuses or scheme changes. Does that really happen if they see a gotta-have talent they needed to keep starting? No.
Where I was coming from is best football ahead vrs best football in the rear view mirror. As recently as 2014, what player averaged 17.4 ypc? What one led his WR Corps in TD receptions in 2014? The only question I have about Benjamin is will his mental block in the return game exceed 2 years post surgery or will it disappear so we have an elite return guy in him as well? If he returns to form, I've just given you examples of why you invest time in a player you draft. Now that he's showing us the exchange value of that, we cut him? Strange timing IMO.
Benjamin used to be a guy that could only run straight ahead over-the-top routes (as well as drags and banana routes) hoping our passers could hit his 4.3 forty speed in stride. If you watched our season in review, he was catching out routes on the sidelines and finding soft spots in red zones (also new/improved) for critical TD receptions in close games with Pittsburgh and TN. He also catches the ball in key situations. A lot of people are confining their analysis of Benjamin to their first impressions. Aside from that, he's not from Ohio and didn't play at Ohio State so I know what guy will recruit more favor. Pettine's first impression of Benjamin on a night we lost Hoyer for the rest of the 2013 season - was a punt return for a TD. When your counting on Brandon Weeden to get you over a deficit, that kind of thing comes in handy.
I don't think Benjamin and Hartline will play the same exact WR role; so who will Hartline oust out of a similar role here: Pryor? Bowe? Hawkins? Gabriel? Maybe he makes Mayle a practice squad guy - who would remain there as long as Charles Johnson did. I'm getting the impression Hartline is competing with Gabriel for reps in a similar role (where his height might win him red zone favor). I run hot and cold with Hartline but now that the position seems a lot more deep - I don't think he's as automatic as I did at first. Why is Nurse Ratchid at my door? This ain't good - I gotta go.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I could see it.
Yep...me too.....as stated in post #1 of this thread.....I see him as a possible Nate Burleson - part deux....
I guess it boils down to upside vs production......and, IF, Mayle and Pryor show at least equal production to Hartline, Id think the younger players upside will buy them roster spots......
Benji.....not so sure where he falls.....but still have him on the bubble........sharing space with Hartline....
maybe they'll have to just keep more than 5 this year....
Yep...me too.....as stated in post #1 of this thread.....I see him as a possible Nate Burleson - part deux....
I guess it boils down to upside vs production......and, IF, Mayle and Pryor show at least equal production to Hartline, Id think the younger players upside will buy them roster spots......
Benji.....not so sure where he falls.....but still have him on the bubble........sharing space with Hartline....
maybe they'll have to just keep more than 5 this year....
With all the attention they paid to the WR position - I don't see how they only keep 5 again. I think some of last year's number had a lot to do with Josh Gordon holding us hostage. I think it stayed at 5 because Miles Austin went on IR around the time/before Gordon came back. I was kind of frustrated when we lost Charles Johnson so that reminded me it isn't easy to keep a stud WR on the practice squad.
I see a HC and GM that looked at our red zone passing game and now we're talking about Pryor 6'4"/6'5", Bowe 6'2", Hartline 6'2", Mayle 6'3", R. Smith 6'5", Cone 6'3". We need to help our running game by at least posing a threat of passing the ball in the red zone. After a while of telling every team in the league we're just going top run the ball in the red zone - they can outnumber our blockers very easily in the box to stop it. The more we threaten a balanced attack there - the stronger each prong gets.
The more I learn about what's unfolding in camp, the more exciting I'm finding this group. You know you've improved when you have to good guys at a position. That's where we're at.
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I have a hard time believing that Pryor, Mayle or Benji will start over a known commodity like Hartline.
Of that list, Pryor and Mayle have a shot. Certainly not at the early going of a season.
I would like to point out one thing no discussed about Pryor yet, is his QB experience being an overwhelming benefit to playing receiver.
As a QB turned WR he'll already have a great understand about route concepts, timing, reading coverage and being on the same page as McCown.
The little mental nuances of the position that can take time for other plays to develop, Terrelle should have a strong grasp on them already.
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I have a hard time believing that Pryor, Mayle or Benji will start over a known commodity like Hartline.
Of that list, Pryor and Mayle have a shot. Certainly not at the early going of a season.
I would like to point out one thing no discussed about Pryor yet, is his QB experience being an overwhelming benefit to playing receiver.
As a QB turned WR he'll already have a great understand about route concepts, timing, reading coverage and being on the same page as McCown.
The little mental nuances of the position that can take time for other plays to develop, Terrelle should have a strong grasp on them already.
I have a hard time believing that Pryor, Mayle or Benji will start over a known commodity like Hartline.
Of that list, Pryor and Mayle have a shot. Certainly not at the early going of a season.
I would like to point out one thing no discussed about Pryor yet, is his QB experience being an overwhelming benefit to playing receiver.
As a QB turned WR he'll already have a great understand about route concepts, timing, reading coverage and being on the same page as McCown.
The little mental nuances of the position that can take time for other plays to develop, Terrelle should have a strong grasp on them already.
Good post Tia especially your comment about Pryor. I think Tour mentioned it too.
Just to piggyback here - Pryor has a head start if we're using some WR routes from Oakland's playbook considering that's where our OC is also coming from. I think his hoops background can also benefit him in tight spaces and red zones because to score points in basketball you gotta get open or post up. The 6'4"/6'5" frame also helps.
There's a lot of former QBs that turned into very good NFL WRs such as: Julian Edelman, Bert Emanuel, Hines Ward, Kordell Stewart (why he wanted to play QB instead is beyond me but I appreciated it). If Matt Jones could have stayed away from the nose candy - he looked like he could have been a good WR. Josh Cribbs wasn't as bad as some of his critics made him out to be at WR.
The only guy I can think of that really never became the type of WR his fitness projected was Mizzou's Brad Smith who played for the Bills and Jets. I'm sure there's more though.
It'll be fun to watch the WR position play out the way it should. I'm having some fun with the discussion but I won't have any problems with whatever direction the staff goes in here.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I have nothing against Benjamin, but to suggest that he could steal a spot from hartline strikes me as sheer lunacy.
LOL! If you think that's bad - I was previously picking Benjamin over Pryor like I was starring in a "Just Say No" commercial. I've definitely worn my village idiot hat way more than I wanted to Royce. That said, an unproven 5'11" 202 lb rookie (Jarvis Landry) just took over Hartline's job in Miami regardless of excuses or scheme changes. Does that really happen if they see a gotta-have talent they needed to keep starting? No.
Where I was coming from is best football ahead vrs best football in the rear view mirror. As recently as 2014, what player averaged 17.4 ypc? What one led his WR Corps in TD receptions in 2014? The only question I have about Benjamin is will his mental block in the return game exceed 2 years post surgery or will it disappear so we have an elite return guy in him as well? If he returns to form, I've just given you examples of why you invest time in a player you draft. Now that he's showing us the exchange value of that, we cut him? Strange timing IMO.
Benjamin used to be a guy that could only run straight ahead over-the-top routes (as well as drags and banana routes) hoping our passers could hit his 4.3 forty speed in stride. If you watched our season in review, he was catching out routes on the sidelines and finding soft spots in red zones (also new/improved) for critical TD receptions in close games with Pittsburgh and TN. He also catches the ball in key situations. A lot of people are confining their analysis of Benjamin to their first impressions. Aside from that, he's not from Ohio and didn't play at Ohio State so I know what guy will recruit more favor. Pettine's first impression of Benjamin on a night we lost Hoyer for the rest of the 2013 season - was a punt return for a TD. When your counting on Brandon Weeden to get you over a deficit, that kind of thing comes in handy.
I don't think Benjamin and Hartline will play the same exact WR role; so who will Hartline oust out of a similar role here: Pryor? Bowe? Hawkins? Gabriel? Maybe he makes Mayle a practice squad guy - who would remain there as long as Charles Johnson did. I'm getting the impression Hartline is competing with Gabriel for reps in a similar role (where his height might win him red zone favor). I run hot and cold with Hartline but now that the position seems a lot more deep - I don't think he's as automatic as I did at first. Why is Nurse Ratchid at my door? This ain't good - I gotta go.
That said, an unproven 5'11" 202 lb rookie (Jarvis Landry) just took over Hartline's job in Miami regardless of excuses or scheme changes.
I'm getting the impression Hartline is competing with Gabriel for reps in a similar role (where his height might win him red zone favor). I run hot and cold with Hartline but now that the position seems a lot more deep - I don't think he's as automatic as I did at first.
Interesting you mention Jarvis Landry.....who took Hartlines job last season. He was ranked as the 3rd best rookie receiver last season(by PFF) one tiny spot ahead of Gabriel(who was ranked #4).....and their #'s are very very comparable.....
I have a hard time believing that Pryor, Mayle or Benji will start over a known commodity like Hartline.
I have Gabriel starting ahead of him though.....Bowe 1, Hawkins 2 and Gabe 3......with the rest fighting for reserve or specialty roles
Good post Tia especially your comment about Pryor. I think Tour mentioned it too.
Just to piggyback here - Pryor has a head start if we're using some WR routes from Oakland's playbook considering that's where our OC is also coming from. I think his hoops background can also benefit him in tight spaces and red zones because to score points in basketball you gotta get open or post up. The 6'4"/6'5" frame also helps.
It'll be fun to watch the WR position play out the way it should. I'm having some fun with the discussion but I won't have any problems with whatever direction the staff goes in here.
Pryor is imposing physically and REALLY stands out in a crowd......and his athletecism shows everytime he's on the field...
watched the WR's go one on one with the DB's, practicing getting off the line and he did well....quick first step AND move.....
Honestly wasn't excited "at all", when we signed him.....now?......very!
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No bones about it, some good WRs are getting cut. Regardless, I will make an attempt at final roster. We carried six guys last year (usually only five active) and I can't see us going more than six this year with all the competition everywhere.
Last year was --
Austin/Gordon -- Gordon was activated before Austin went to IR technically but basically they were swapped out.
Hawkins
Gabriel
Benji
Marlon Moore
Rodney Smith -- picked him up early October
Marlon Moore was exclusively here for specials, and I definitely don't see him back. Smith is intriguing with his 6'5 size and may be another piece that adds to the who gets cut dilemma.
My stab in order of least chance of getting cut to best chance --
Gabby
Hartline
Hawk
Bowe
Pryor
Benjamin
Mayle -- to ps. If he gets picked up he gets picked up. Was pissed when we left CJ exposed for Marlon Moore but a fourth rounder that gets plucked isn't the end of the world
Smith
Cone -- to ps if he is eligible. Not sure about that
Lenz
Wynn
Moore
Jennings
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No bones about it, some good WRs are getting cut. Regardless, I will make an attempt at final roster. We carried six guys last year (usually only five active) and I can't see us going more than six this year with all the competition everywhere.
Last year was --
Austin/Gordon -- Gordon was activated before Austin went to IR technically but basically they were swapped out.
Hawkins
Gabriel
Benji
Marlon Moore
Rodney Smith -- picked him up early October
Marlon Moore was exclusively here for specials, and I definitely don't see him back. Smith is intriguing with his 6'5 size and may be another piece that adds to the who gets cut dilemma.
My stab in order of least chance of getting cut to best chance --
Gabby
Hartline
Hawk
Bowe
Pryor
Benjamin
Mayle -- to ps. If he gets picked up he gets picked up. Was pissed when we left CJ exposed for Marlon Moore but a fourth rounder that gets plucked isn't the end of the world
Smith
Cone -- to ps if he is eligible. Not sure about that
Lenz
Wynn
Moore
Jennings
No bones about it, some good WRs are getting cut. Regardless, I will make an attempt at final roster. We carried six guys last year (usually only five active) and I can't see us going more than six this year with all the competition everywhere.
Last year was --
Austin/Gordon -- Gordon was activated before Austin went to IR technically but basically they were swapped out.
Hawkins
Gabriel
Benji
Marlon Moore
Rodney Smith -- picked him up early October
Marlon Moore was exclusively here for specials, and I definitely don't see him back. Smith is intriguing with his 6'5 size and may be another piece that adds to the who gets cut dilemma.
My stab in order of least chance of getting cut to best chance --
Gabby
Hartline
Hawk
Bowe
Pryor
Benjamin
Mayle -- to ps. If he gets picked up he gets picked up. Was pissed when we left CJ exposed for Marlon Moore but a fourth rounder that gets plucked isn't the end of the world
Smith
Cone -- to ps if he is eligible. Not sure about that
Lenz
Wynn
Moore
Jennings
Unless that fourth rounder is essentially Josh Gordon but without the weed habit.
I loved CJ. He will be special.
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I could also see Mayle just not being able to get over that pesky thumb thingy and being redshirted for the year wink/wink.
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