The Unofficial... Off-Season... D-line Thread
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Now it looks like they are gonna add a little 4-3 to the multi front arsenal.......from Oneills pressy....
My listen produced more of an impression of a semi-brush-back on the question... Pet said we were more of a 3.5-3.5 D than a 3-4. O'Neil upped the ante stating that we often present five-man fronts.
My listen produced more of an impression of a semi-brush-back on the question... Pet said we were more of a 3.5-3.5 D than a 3-4. O'Neil upped the ante stating that we often present five-man fronts.
The point I've been trying to harp over and over is how many on this board are hung up on '34' and '43' and the players that they believe are to be pigeon holed into spots.
Defense doesn't work that way in Pettine and O'Neil's mind(s). Which I can appreciate - the only problem is that the defense itself can be very complex. I'd expect to see some growing pains out of Shelton and Orchard in the very early going. Hell, don't be surprised if there are some busted plays at their spots in the pre-season.
That said, all the early word is that Danny is absorbing the calls like a sponge and having a great showing.
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My listen produced more of an impression of a semi-brush-back on the question... Pet said we were more of a 3.5-3.5 D than a 3-4. O'Neil upped the ante stating that we often present five-man fronts.
The point I've been trying to harp over and over is how many on this board are hung up on '34' and '43' and the players that they believe are to be pigeon holed into spots.
Defense doesn't work that way in Pettine and O'Neil's mind(s). Which I can appreciate - the only problem is that the defense itself can be very complex. I'd expect to see some growing pains out of Shelton and Orchard in the very early going. Hell, don't be surprised if there are some busted plays at their spots in the pre-season.
That said, all the early word is that Danny is absorbing the calls like a sponge and having a great showing.
The point I've been trying to harp over and over is how many on this board are hung up on '34' and '43' and the players that they believe are to be pigeon holed into spots.
Defense doesn't work that way in Pettine and O'Neil's mind(s). Which I can appreciate - the only problem is that the defense itself can be very complex. I'd expect to see some growing pains out of Shelton and Orchard in the very early going. Hell, don't be surprised if there are some busted plays at their spots in the pre-season.
That said, all the early word is that Danny is absorbing the calls like a sponge and having a great showing.
That's an insightful post Tia. We often get caught up in the traditional sense of we're either a 34 or a 43. But situational football and matchups from Mike Pettine's staff use mutiple fronts that you and Mud did a nice job of reminding us about throughout the offseason. They used some 52 looks (and some other alignments) that prolly traced back Pettine's dad's defenses considering our DC (O'Neill) and LBer Coach (Driesbach) have roots there as well. I also liked how they changed up the techniques across the line. Sometimes after an opponent like Houston dashed and gashed us up front - they tightened our dline splits inside the next week. They did some innovative stuff that was fun to watch. Also keep in mind, we had a ridiculous volume of injuries up front that might have forced their hand to use alignments they wouldn't consider if we were reasonably healthy.
It does take time for younger players like you alluded to. Having said that, a guy like Shelton is an absolute film junkie and student of the game on top of how smart he is. I expect him to get this pretty quickly. Defense always seems to come quicker to players than offense for some reason. That said, look how quickly guys like Mack, Thomas and Bitonio picked our offense as rookies.
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The point I've been trying to harp over and over is how many on this board are hung up on '34' and '43' and the players that they believe are to be pigeon holed into spots.
Defense doesn't work that way in Pettine and O'Neil's mind(s). Which I can appreciate - the only problem is that the defense itself can be very complex. I'd expect to see some growing pains out of Shelton and Orchard in the very early going. Hell, don't be surprised if there are some busted plays at their spots in the pre-season.
That said, all the early word is that Danny is absorbing the calls like a sponge and having a great showing.
That's an insightful post Tia. We often get caught up in the traditional sense of we're either a 34 or a 43. But situational football and matchups from Mike Pettine's staff use mutiple fronts that you and Mud did a nice job of reminding us about throughout the offseason. They used some 52 looks (and some other alignments) that prolly traced back Pettine's dad's defenses considering our DC (O'Neill) and LBer Coach (Driesbach) have roots there as well. I also liked how they changed up the techniques across the line. Sometimes after an opponent like Houston dashed and gashed us up front - they tightened our dline splits inside the next week. They did some innovative stuff that was fun to watch. Also keep in mind, we had a ridiculous volume of injuries up front that might have forced their hand to use alignments they wouldn't consider if we were reasonably healthy.
It does take time for younger players like you alluded to. Having said that, a guy like Shelton is an absolute film junkie and student of the game on top of how smart he is. I expect him to get this pretty quickly. Defense always seems to come quicker to players than offense for some reason. That said, look how quickly guys like Mack, Thomas and Bitonio picked our offense as rookies.
That's an insightful post Tia. We often get caught up in the traditional sense of we're either a 34 or a 43. But situational football and matchups from Mike Pettine's staff use mutiple fronts that you and Mud did a nice job of reminding us about throughout the offseason. They used some 52 looks (and some other alignments) that prolly traced back Pettine's dad's defenses considering our DC (O'Neill) and LBer Coach (Driesbach) have roots there as well. I also liked how they changed up the techniques across the line. Sometimes after an opponent like Houston dashed and gashed us up front - they tightened our dline splits inside the next week. They did some innovative stuff that was fun to watch. Also keep in mind, we had a ridiculous volume of injuries up front that might have forced their hand to use alignments they wouldn't consider if we were reasonably healthy.
It does take time for younger players like you alluded to. Having said that, a guy like Shelton is an absolute film junkie and student of the game on top of how smart he is. I expect him to get this pretty quickly. Defense always seems to come quicker to players than offense for some reason. That said, look how quickly guys like Mack, Thomas and Bitonio picked our offense as rookies.
The 34 is the 52, only difference is your ends are now in a 2pt look. The difference between those schemes is negligible against the run (unless of course you want your OLB's doing some crazy shit)
The injuries are certainly not lost on anyone here. The rough part is that players who were extensively injured, example being Big Phil - can't really offer the insight and knowledge into the scheme that comes only from playing time. That is a hindrance to themselves and our younger group. Sure he might have the X's and O's down, but when you're in a live game and you get a check from your field general, communication, sliding, the proper rotation has to be second nature otherwise you're now a larger step behind the opposing offense.
All in all, I'm very pleased with the approach our coaching staff has with our defense. Nothing is off the table and no combination of personnel will be ignored or at the very least experimented with. Although my largest gripe is how O'Neil took Winn, asked him to put on weight and defeated the natural, scheme versatile ally he had. That said, Cooper has an even faster first step than Billy did with any additional 10lbs his rookie season. I pray the coaching staff understands just how big of a matchup nightmare Xavier can become as long as they continuously strive to improve his strength and technique while letting him stay at his normal weight. Then Cooper would become the player I hoped Pettine would allow Winn to be.
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Day 6 D-line News: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/5-observations-from-Day-6-of-Cleveland-Browns-training-camp/4c632933-2894-419b-94dc-fce282a696a9
Shelton started getting 1st team reps:
"Danny Shelton saw extensive action with the first-team, and was a mammoth at times. Pettine always talks about defensive linemen who can take two players on at the point of attack – and Shelton is excelling at this concept."
Couple D-line are getting FB work in goal-line O:
"You weren’t seeing things Wednesday when linebacker Scott Solomon and defensive lineman Dylan Wynn took turns as lead-blocking fullbacks during a goal-line session. Pettine said he’s in favor of having at least one player who can be a “crossover” guy to include in his game plan.
“You always like to have a crossover guy defensively, especially if the way that you are building your offense is more of a hybrid fullback than heavier guy that can get it done in goal line and short yardage,” Pettine said.
An interesting note: Wynn actually participated in fullback drills during his Pro Day at Oregon State to show his flexibility as an athlete."
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Day 6 D-line News: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/5-observations-from-Day-6-of-Cleveland-Browns-training-camp/4c632933-2894-419b-94dc-fce282a696a9
Shelton started getting 1st team reps:
"Danny Shelton saw extensive action with the first-team, and was a mammoth at times. Pettine always talks about defensive linemen who can take two players on at the point of attack – and Shelton is excelling at this concept."
Couple D-line are getting FB work in goal-line O:
"You weren’t seeing things Wednesday when linebacker Scott Solomon and defensive lineman Dylan Wynn took turns as lead-blocking fullbacks during a goal-line session. Pettine said he’s in favor of having at least one player who can be a “crossover” guy to include in his game plan.
“You always like to have a crossover guy defensively, especially if the way that you are building your offense is more of a hybrid fullback than heavier guy that can get it done in goal line and short yardage,” Pettine said.
An interesting note: Wynn actually participated in fullback drills during his Pro Day at Oregon State to show his flexibility as an athlete."
Shelton started getting 1st team reps:
"Danny Shelton saw extensive action with the first-team, and was a mammoth at times. Pettine always talks about defensive linemen who can take two players on at the point of attack – and Shelton is excelling at this concept."
you mean our 1st round pick actually showed up.....AND is playing well?......get outta dodge!
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Blind hog? Only this time the acorn is wearing a lava-lava...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Posted 19 June 2015 - 12:59 PM
Flounder? Tour*************************
(lol)
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Couple excerpts from a little, Monday blurb on Big Phil...
Cleveland Browns DL Phil Taylor methodically working his way back
Phil Taylor’s not the easiest guy to miss on the football field, and Mike Pettine made that clear Monday after the Browns defensive line took a big step in the right direction.
Taylor, who was been rehabbing for months in his recovery from a knee injury, saw his most work yet Monday in 11-on-11 drills. The 335-pound nose tackle worked in the middle alongside Randy Starks and Desmond Bryant in sessions against the first-team offense. Rookie Danny Shelton rotated in and out behind him.
Perhaps the biggest thing motivating Taylor to return are the players around him. He described Shelton’s on- and off-field energy to be infectious, while the offseason addition of Starks and return of injured players such as John Hughes and Armonty Bryant have provided more capable bodies in the defensive line room than Taylor’s ever seen.
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Any word on Xavier Cooper? I haven't heard about how he is doing.
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Any word on Xavier Cooper? I haven't heard about how he is doing.
Any word on Xavier Cooper? I haven't heard about how he is doing.
He's been using his greatest asset - great quickness to win battles. However his technique and counter moves are what the coaching staff is working on, it takes some time.
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It hard to get excited about 4 preseason games but with this rotation and no more red jersey's I am there. interested to see 3rd and run D and 3rd and passing down. personnel units that wants to step up and win on 3rd down?
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It hard to get excited about 4 preseason games but with this rotation and no more red jersey's I am there. interested to see 3rd and run D and 3rd and passing down. personnel units that wants to step up and win on 3rd down?
It hard to get excited about 4 preseason games but with this rotation and no more red jersey's I am there. interested to see 3rd and run D and 3rd and passing down. personnel units that wants to step up and win on 3rd down?
I love to watch the preseason games. There's guys trying to win starting jobs, situational reps or simply make the team. When fans say they don't care because there's a lot of vanilla in the game plans - there's reasons why our staff prolly likes some vanilla. Sometimes a DC doesn't want to slant or stunt up front so he can check out something like a 2 gap skill set from the dlinemen. Sometimes a DC likes to evaluate how his CBs can cover in an exhibition without using his best situational pass rushers or use of a blitz. For example, I think we had a preseason game or 2 last year where our corners got frequently flagged for a lot of grabbing and holding. After that went on film, our defensive staff worked very diligently to clean that stuff up. It also helped them decide who we should keep and who we shouldn't (ie; McFadden). When I recently watched our 2014 year in review - I was reminded our secondary had an elite number of pass breakups despite the reality we weren't elite at sacking the QB.
There were other goodies to check out too like how did Joel Bitonio look at his new position OG matching up with guys trying to start on Defense for other teams. Vanilla or not, it was on. Guys are trying to prove themselves knowing they may only have and from 1-2 series to possibly 1-2 quarters of action.
This is also a time of year you get to see an undrafted gem like a Taylor Gabriel emerge or a QB like Connor Shaw pleasantly surprising people. Something like that is always fun. On top of that, if we really want to take the next step - the competition to make the bottom of the active roster needs to be fierce and impressive. I want to see this unfold and see who rises to the occasion. It's just fun to see guys competing whether it is to start or make our favorite team.
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It hard to get excited about 4 preseason games but with this rotation and no more red jersey's I am there. interested to see 3rd and run D and 3rd and passing down. personnel units that wants to step up and win on 3rd down?
I love to watch the preseason games. There's guys trying to win starting jobs, situational reps or simply make the team. When fans say they don't care because there's a lot of vanilla in the game plans - there's reasons why our staff prolly likes some vanilla. Sometimes a DC doesn't want to slant or stunt up front so he can check out something like a 2 gap skill set from the dlinemen. Sometimes a DC likes to evaluate how his CBs can cover in an exhibition without using his best situational pass rushers or use of a blitz. For example, I think we had a preseason game or 2 last year where our corners got frequently flagged for a lot of grabbing and holding. After that went on film, our defensive staff worked very diligently to clean that stuff up. It also helped them decide who we should keep and who we shouldn't (ie; McFadden). When I recently watched our 2014 year in review - I was reminded our secondary had an elite number of pass breakups despite the reality we weren't elite at sacking the QB.
There were other goodies to check out too like how did Joel Bitonio look at his new position OG matching up with guys trying to start on Defense for other teams. Vanilla or not, it was on. Guys are trying to prove themselves knowing they may only have and from 1-2 series to possibly 1-2 quarters of action.
This is also a time of year you get to see an undrafted gem like a Taylor Gabriel emerge or a QB like Connor Shaw pleasantly surprising people. Something like that is always fun. On top of that, if we really want to take the next step - the competition to make the bottom of the active roster needs to be fierce and impressive. I want to see this unfold and see who rises to the occasion. It's just fun to see guys competing whether it is to start or make our favorite team.
I love to watch the preseason games. There's guys trying to win starting jobs, situational reps or simply make the team.
This is also a time of year you get to see an undrafted gem like a Taylor Gabriel emerge or a QB like Connor Shaw pleasantly surprising people. Something like that is always fun. On top of that, if we really want to take the next step - the competition to make the bottom of the active roster needs to be fierce and impressive. I want to see this unfold and see who rises to the occasion. It's just fun to see guys competing whether it is to start or make our favorite team.
Im with you.....LOVE preseason football!
Especially watching the unknowns...the Gabes and Shaws(as mentioned)......and the Crows too. One explosive Preseason game got him a roster spot.....and now.....he is possibly our #1 back coming out of camp....
Super eager to see JFF...Bowe....Mayle....Johnson I.....Johnson II....Gilbert....McCown.....etc etc etc.....
aND, I think if we beat the Skins on Thurs.....well........SUPER BOWL!
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Any word on Xavier Cooper? I haven't heard about how he is doing.
Any word on Xavier Cooper? I haven't heard about how he is doing.
Coopers looking good, eh?......3 sacks in 2 games, so far.....
And we definitely stopped the run last night.....with the LB's showing up to help this time.....
but the DL did their job....collapsed the pocket....good pressure on the QB.....held their RB's to less than 2 yds a carry..
Now THATS what Im talkin about....
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For all the fanfare about the Bills' D-line, ours is no joke either... If we can avoid the injuries, they are going to make things very difficult for any offense we play... Adding Starks, Cooper, and Shelton was monumental and we will see much-improved play from that unit this year...
Plus, the true strength of our D is the secondary (when they are healthy), and we haven't even gotten to see them play as a whole unit. When Haden and Gipson are in there, we'll be causing fits...
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