The Unofficial... Off-Season... O-line Thread
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Update from Camp...
Day 5 from http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/8/4/9096469/cleveland-browns-training-camp-report-day-5
4. A Peek at the Offensive Line:
If things have been going hot for NT Danny Shelton, they haven't been so hot for the team's other first-round pick, OL Cameron Erving. The Browns continue using Erving at right guard with the second-team offense. He isn't struggling in camp by any means, but his primary competition right now is RG John Greco, and there haven't been any signs of a change coming with the first-team offensive line. My projection right now is that Erving starts the season as a backup, but would be the first player to enter the game is an injury should occur.
Here is what offensive line coach Andy Moeller said about Greco after practice:
"Last year, John did a great job for us. John really exceeded my expectations a year ago. He has played well this fall. He is a competitive guy. He is a veteran. He knows how to play. He is smart. John is obviously an important guy, and I like the way he has played so far."
Moeller also talked about OL Michael Bowie, who has lost 40 pounds since February. Moeller praised his effort to get in shape, but also noted that he needs to be more consistent. The language Moeller used didn't seem to indicate that Bowie is any form of a threat to Mitchell Schwartz' starting job this camp.
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turned on WKNR yesterday and they were talking to someone about OL......the guy was uber intelligent and spoke so eloquently and with a thorough knowledge of the OL, their assignments and gave a good assessment of the players....and I was thinking this HAS to be Andy Moeller or DeLione.....but it wasnt....it was Mitchell Schwartz
Very impressive to hear him speak.....sounds like he really has a grip on the game and his role with the team......and a great sense of humor about being the worst guy on the best line.....wish I had a link to post, cause it was a great interview....
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Doesn't an offensive lineman have a lot more to learn than a defensive lineman?
I don't get the idea that Irving isn't a big a talent as Shelton just because he hasn't stepped
in and locked up a starting postion on the oline. Maybe it's just me.....
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Schwartz is known as the oracle, for his smarts, I believe?
could be....I always hear how smart our O line guys are, though wasnt aware it was Schwartz.....
Ive only heard him a few times commenting after games, as its rare that he speaks(usually Thomas or Mack)....but he sounds like a freaking brain surgeon...ha!
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http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&r=17&post_id=38311
The Oracle (Mitchell Schwartz)
“We call him the Oracle because he’s so smart, he knows everything,” said Joe Thomas.
“He knows all and sees all,” said John Greco. “He’s the ever-knowing being. And our big thing is he’s never wrong. But even if he is, he convinces you that you’re wrong and he’s right.”
Schwartz accepts the nickname as a badge of honor.
“It’s a cool nickname,” Schwartz said. “I don’t like being wrong. In this job, you can be out of a job just as easily for mental errors as you can for physical ones. I always try to be on top of everything.
“I do have a good memory for specific plays a year or two ago, or like a scheme we did last year against a certain team. I just have a good memory for that stuff.”
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http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&r=17&post_id=38311
The Oracle (Mitchell Schwartz)
“We call him the Oracle because he’s so smart, he knows everything,” said Joe Thomas.
“He knows all and sees all,” said John Greco. “He’s the ever-knowing being. And our big thing is he’s never wrong. But even if he is, he convinces you that you’re wrong and he’s right.”
Schwartz accepts the nickname as a badge of honor.
“It’s a cool nickname,” Schwartz said. “I don’t like being wrong. In this job, you can be out of a job just as easily for mental errors as you can for physical ones. I always try to be on top of everything.
“I do have a good memory for specific plays a year or two ago, or like a scheme we did last year against a certain team. I just have a good memory for that stuff.”
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&r=17&post_id=38311
The Oracle (Mitchell Schwartz)
“We call him the Oracle because he’s so smart, he knows everything,” said Joe Thomas.
“He knows all and sees all,” said John Greco. “He’s the ever-knowing being. And our big thing is he’s never wrong. But even if he is, he convinces you that you’re wrong and he’s right.”
Schwartz accepts the nickname as a badge of honor.
“It’s a cool nickname,” Schwartz said. “I don’t like being wrong. In this job, you can be out of a job just as easily for mental errors as you can for physical ones. I always try to be on top of everything.
“I do have a good memory for specific plays a year or two ago, or like a scheme we did last year against a certain team. I just have a good memory for that stuff.”
Thanks for that.....The Oracle....ha!
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here's the podcast.....
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=476&f=4699363
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Doesn't an offensive lineman have a lot more to learn than a defensive lineman?
I don't get the idea that Irving isn't a big a talent as Shelton just because he hasn't stepped
in and locked up a starting postion on the oline. Maybe it's just me.....
Doesn't an offensive lineman have a lot more to learn than a defensive lineman?
I don't get the idea that Irving isn't a big a talent as Shelton just because he hasn't stepped
in and locked up a starting postion on the oline. Maybe it's just me.....
In a sense you could say oline requires a bit more situatonal awareness and quick thinking. However on the flip side you have to be just as quick as well.
Ultimately I'd yield to Oline as being the more cerebral group of the two.
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As far as cerebral I don't think there's any doubt. Rarely see a DL that sounds much smarter than Retard, but for OL it's the norm.
As for which has more to learn....yeah that's OL too.
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http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&r=17&post_id=38311
The Oracle (Mitchell Schwartz)
“We call him the Oracle because he’s so smart, he knows everything,” said Joe Thomas.
“He knows all and sees all,” said John Greco. “He’s the ever-knowing being. And our big thing is he’s never wrong. But even if he is, he convinces you that you’re wrong and he’s right.”
Schwartz accepts the nickname as a badge of honor.
“It’s a cool nickname,” Schwartz said. “I don’t like being wrong. In this job, you can be out of a job just as easily for mental errors as you can for physical ones. I always try to be on top of everything.
“I do have a good memory for specific plays a year or two ago, or like a scheme we did last year against a certain team. I just have a good memory for that stuff.”
Thanks for that.....The Oracle....ha!
Thanks for that.....The Oracle....ha!
I've heard "The Schwartz" on a couple of interviews last year, and you're right the dude is cerebral.
You gotta think that after his playing days are over, a coaching spot could be in his future.
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I've heard "The Schwartz" on a couple of interviews last year, and you're right the dude is cerebral.
You gotta think that after his playing days are over, a coaching spot could be in his future.
JT must have an OL coaching job for life in cleveland - heck, he's probably already doing the job. Being his position coach must be like being Peyton's OC.
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http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&r=17&post_id=38311
The Oracle (Mitchell Schwartz)
“We call him the Oracle because he’s so smart, he knows everything,” said Joe Thomas.
“He knows all and sees all,” said John Greco. “He’s the ever-knowing being. And our big thing is he’s never wrong. But even if he is, he convinces you that you’re wrong and he’s right.”
Schwartz accepts the nickname as a badge of honor.
“It’s a cool nickname,” Schwartz said. “I don’t like being wrong. In this job, you can be out of a job just as easily for mental errors as you can for physical ones. I always try to be on top of everything.
“I do have a good memory for specific plays a year or two ago, or like a scheme we did last year against a certain team. I just have a good memory for that stuff.”
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&r=17&post_id=38311
The Oracle (Mitchell Schwartz)
“We call him the Oracle because he’s so smart, he knows everything,” said Joe Thomas.
“He knows all and sees all,” said John Greco. “He’s the ever-knowing being. And our big thing is he’s never wrong. But even if he is, he convinces you that you’re wrong and he’s right.”
Schwartz accepts the nickname as a badge of honor.
“It’s a cool nickname,” Schwartz said. “I don’t like being wrong. In this job, you can be out of a job just as easily for mental errors as you can for physical ones. I always try to be on top of everything.
“I do have a good memory for specific plays a year or two ago, or like a scheme we did last year against a certain team. I just have a good memory for that stuff.”
Well, he is a deity: "May The Schwartz be with you".
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ok....eye opening article on Joe Thomas(who has NEVER missed a snap in his 8 years of nfl ball) and his knee bump the other day.....
According to Thomas, he has torn his MCL 3 times and suffered 2 high ankle sprains(the worst kind)....yet, he plays on....
One of the main reasons why Thomas was so confident it wasn’t serious? He’s had serious knee issues before, most of which he’s discretely played through during his eight-years-and-counting run as the Browns’ cornerstone left tackle.
Thomas said he’s torn his MCL three times and suffered two high ankle sprains over the past eight seasons.
How’s he done it?
“You suck it up. You’re a lineman,” Thomas said. “The great part about being a lineman is you need to be quick and fast, but you don’t need to be that quick and fast. If you lose a little bit because you’re hurting, you can make it up with technique.”
Wow....I now have even more admiration for his legacy(if thats possible)......
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gotta say...of all the things that bothered me from the Washington game, the play of the 2nd team OL bothered me most.
Honestly, they were terrible. Seymour - Painter - Barton picked up right were they left off last season.....(getting beat).....Bowie wasn't good either.....(Ima give Cam a pass, even though he had a rough game, simply because hes had barely any reps at OT)
So....#1) praying to avoid injury on the OL.....#2) Hoping they dont carry too many of these 2nd tier OL guys(if any) in lieu of some better skilled players at other spots.....
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I think we are in for no major injuries on the OL this year but we will have multiple starters miss a game here or there, which is the norm for most teams. I mentioned it the other day Mud but I'll just reiterate, you can't expect 4 guys to not miss a snap again. We got lucky with that (or maybe our luck was neutral given Mack's injury, whatever). But I was definitely disappointed in Bowie too.
You going to practice tomorrow?
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Yeah...I dont expect it....though I have grown accustomed to uber reliable guys.....Schwartz and Thomas have never missed a snap.....ever.....and, until last season, Mack had never missed a snap either...so having 3 back ups on the active roster makes no sense to me, as its been years since we needed that many...
So, while I understand that anyone can go down on any play, historically this group has proven to be as reliable as any. And if we have a couple guys who can play several positions, Id say a couple back ups are enough to start. These other OL guys can be stashed on the PS and brought up if needed or just waived and resigned later(or maybe we sign someone better??).....etc etc....
Was gonna go to practice on sat, but now have another engagement I gotta go to....kinda bummed Ill miss it....oh well
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My injury crystal ball is in the shop... What I think I know though is that the ZBS is less line health friendly than other O's. Whole lotta beef on the move behind you as it slides in your direction.
I honestly think Erving got tired in the 2nd half. His technique, such as it is, all but disappeared in the 4th. Both his conditioning and technique will improve, but I am not sure the latter will ever rise to LT worthiness.
Joe's greatness makes him indispensable, but I still maintain that our best back up LT is our starting LG. It's equally possible that our best back up RT is our starting RG.
At any rate... we are one player deeper this year than we were last... and that's called improvement.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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