laurinaitis coming in
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oldcow1945 said:
In the last 5 years The SEC and Big Ten have each had 21 D-Linemen drafted in the first four rounds.This isn't necessarily because Big Ten players are just as fast, but they've got other qualities that make them good. That argument is completely shallow and wrong.
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Do you remember how Derrick Harvey made our offensive linemen look? Or are you like all other OSU fans and just block out that game? I'm not being influenced by ESPN, I'm being influenced by watching college football. You are being influenced, once again, by your scarlett and grey glasses.
Just another bitter, blindly loyal OSU fan.
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oldcow1945 said:
In the last 5 years The SEC and Big Ten have each had 21 D-Linemen drafted in the first four rounds.This isn't necessarily because Big Ten players are just as fast, but they've got other qualities that make them good. That argument is completely shallow and wrong.
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Do you remember how Derrick Harvey made our offensive linemen look? Or are you like all other OSU fans and just block out that game? I'm not being influenced by ESPN, I'm being influenced by watching college football. You are being influenced, once again, by your scarlett and grey glasses.
Just another bitter, blindly loyal OSU fan.
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin" -
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
This debate seems to be going in circles, so let me interject with a suggestion: if you list the 20 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys, I'll look up their Combine times and give you a mean time for each. That'll give us a better idea about any potential difference in speed.
Better yet: have mercy on me and limit it to the last four drafts
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A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.
The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.
Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.
As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.
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oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.
The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.
Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.
As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.
Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.
The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.
Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.
As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.
I love it....you spelled 'genius' incorrectly.
I'm just responding to your point. You said the SEC is known for speed and the Big Ten is known for size and strength. Yet now you say Speed isn't everything.
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Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.
Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?
You are right when you say speed isn't everything. It isn't. Being a football players is what counts. The NFL has chosen almost as many Big Ten players so how can you say the conference in inferior?
Which is it? Combine speed or Game speed?
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin" -
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
- Average time:
-
Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?
You are right when you say speed isn't everything. It isn't. Being a football players is what counts. The NFL has chosen almost as many Big Ten players so how can you say the conference in inferior?
Which is it? Combine speed or Game speed?
oldcow1945 said:
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?I did not mean the conference was inferior. I simply meant the conference was not as fast overall as, say, the SEC. That doesn't mean they're inferior.
When I said subpar competition, I meant games against YSU, Akron, and such.
You still don't get it. I'm not saying speed is everything, and I'm not saying the Big Ten is weak. I'm saying the Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences. That's it. Take it for what it is.
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I would rather have big , moderately fast players than smaller speedster types that cant do all jobs expected .
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oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
- Average time:
-
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
oldcow1945 said:
Corners takenSEC 17
Big Ten 15
I counted 18 apiece, with 14 SEC guys and 12 Big Ten guys running at the Combine.
- Average times:
- SEC: 4.4078
- Ten: 4.4442
- Average times:
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Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Speed wise, he does. As Aloysius is currently in the process of proving.
But I know that doesn't matter. Even though all I've said is "The Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences," you'll keep twisting it as much as you have to because you can't admit that it is, despite the proof.
OSU fag.
- Average time:
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Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Speed wise, he does. As Aloysius is currently in the process of proving.
But I know that doesn't matter. Even though all I've said is "The Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences," you'll keep twisting it as much as you have to because you can't admit that it is, despite the proof.
OSU fag.
OSU fag.
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin" -
oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.
I'm ROTFL here!
- Average time:
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oldcow1945 said:
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.
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Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Now he says he meant that only the non conference games were inferior. Not the games in the Big Ten.
Even though he said JL played "a lot games against inferior competition" and "In a notoriously slow conference"
I guess "A lot" means 3 of their 12 games. And five one hundreds of a second is "notoriously slow"
- Average time:
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oldcow1945 said:
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.
Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.
Name callers always show their true colors. They're generally the most bitter posters, and rarely do they have anything good to say about anything.
Overall unhappy people who can't coexist on a message board. Normal people don't call people names to their face very often over a football discussion.
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Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
It's more likely a kid from Ohio or Minnesota is going to head to Florida or South Carolina v. the other kids heading up north.
That is why when you compare the conferences, you really need to look at the bottom tier schools in each...and that is where the big difference occurs, and what in the end most of the time makes the top teams slightly better...they play better, deeper teams week after week.
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Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
It's more likely a kid from Ohio or Minnesota is going to head to Florida or South Carolina v. the other kids heading up north.
That is why when you compare the conferences, you really need to look at the bottom tier schools in each...and that is where the big difference occurs, and what in the end most of the time makes the top teams slightly better...they play better, deeper teams week after week.
Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.
One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)
The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.
Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio
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