Jonathan Paul Manziel
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and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
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Tour, rewatching those plays.
I have to disagree on the first scramble. It wasn't phantom pressure. A late block upended a middle blitz, and 55 was about to destroy Johnny. I agree he might have been able to get it to Hartline, but he would've taken a huge hit after release.
The second was a bit phantom, but the pocket was starting to give way up the middle. I agree in general that he tends to take off too soon, but with him, that can lead to huge plays.
One thing that still looks good, though is his accuracy, even on the run. He puts it where the receiver can run with it.
The biggest mistake was when he stared down the receiver and the ball got batted down. Hopefully he starts to use his eyes better.
Such is the life of a QB, there are times when you'll have to stand tall in the face of pressure and make a throw knowing you might get hit.
It's a double edge sword with taking off early. He will get tracked down by ends and backers not trying to push up field. Defenses won't look to push the pocket so much as just putting a fence up and waiting for Johnny to come to them.
Overall what I saw last night I expected last year. So by this time next year with continued emphasis on improvement I'd expect to see a near starting caliber QB.
Such is the life of a QB, there are times when you'll have to stand tall in the face of pressure and make a throw knowing you might get hit.
It's a double edge sword with taking off early. He will get tracked down by ends and backers not trying to push up field. Defenses won't look to push the pocket so much as just putting a fence up and waiting for Johnny to come to them.
Overall what I saw last night I expected last year. So by this time next year with continued emphasis on improvement I'd expect to see a near starting caliber QB.
All true. Here's a little piggyback here that I want to make some aware of if they aren't already. There's also times when this offense bootlegs a QB to one side of the field opposite the play action flow for a waggle pass. It's not from a QB panicking or getting flushed out - it's the design of the play. For example, 1st play of a series in the 2nd quarter with 6:25 to go with 1st and 10 from our 24 yard line. Manziel did his playaction fake to the left and rolled out right and hit Bibbs on a short pass. It was a design but he had to throw it quick and we gained 4-5 yards. If we're running well to either side of formation this year - this can set up nice.
Manziel has been getting the ball out quicker; but there's been occasions of inexperience interrupting things. Weeden still didn't understand he could throw the ball out of bounds at 31 years of age; so I'm glad this first round pick knows enough to do that at 22 years of age.
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and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
Wow! That's too bad but it'll help us protect him.
I always thought Gomer's Pile was the got milk look above a Steelhead smile.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
So Shaw will get shelved, Thad will be the last cut with his agent's phone # saved under "QB Emergency" and Pryor will probably stick to roster and act as third QB.
Z
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and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
Wow! That's too bad but it'll help us protect him.
I always thought Gomer's Pile was the got milk look above a Steelhead smile.
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and, in oh so surprising fashion, connor shaw sustained a thumb injury that will require some surgery and time on the injury list....
In the famous words of one Mr. Gomer Pyle......surprise, surprise, surprise.....
So Shaw will get shelved, Thad will be the last cut with his agent's phone # saved under "QB Emergency" and Pryor will probably stick to roster and act as third QB.
Z
Zombo said:
So Shaw will get shelved, Thad will be the last cut with his agent's phone # saved under "QB Emergency" and Pryor will probably stick to roster and act as third QB.
Ding ding ding....
Only better move would have been a 2-fer announcing that, "Shaw and Mayle were thumb-wrestling when..."
There's also times when this offense bootlegs a QB to one side of the field opposite the play action flow for a waggle pass. It's not from a QB panicking or getting flushed out - it's the design of the play.
I pray that this enlightened no one here...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Zombo said:
So Shaw will get shelved, Thad will be the last cut with his agent's phone # saved under "QB Emergency" and Pryor will probably stick to roster and act as third QB.
Ding ding ding....
Only better move would have been a 2-fer announcing that, "Shaw and Mayle were thumb-wrestling when..."
There's also times when this offense bootlegs a QB to one side of the field opposite the play action flow for a waggle pass. It's not from a QB panicking or getting flushed out - it's the design of the play.
I pray that this enlightened no one here...
I pray that this enlightened no one here...
I hear ya man. Unfortunately, I've read enough Manziel posts to warrant the need to type such a thing.
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I hear ya man. Unfortunately, I've read enough Manziel posts to warrant the need to type such a thing.
Ah... you must mean the Aggies... Did not think about them...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
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Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
where the fuck did you come from? can you get back on your plane train or automobile and do a Uey?
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Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
where the fuck did you come from? can you get back on your plane train or automobile and do a Uey?
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It's apparent he isn't full of beans....
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So many things wrong with tacos post, hard to know where to start. But here goes.
1. McCown is better than Hoyer.
2. McCown knows and can run the offense.
3. Johnny is 22. Just because he wasn't all-pro his rookie season doesn't mean he sucks for life. He was really bad last year, he's better this year, do you recognize a trend?
4. McCown isn't meant to be the long-term answer, part of his job is mentoring Johnny, which by all accounts is working perfectly.
It doesn't help that the AFC North is the toughest division in football either. But I still think the Browns can make the playoffs this year.
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Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
The bottom line is our QB situation is atrocious NOW? When was it not atrocious? What's your point? What would you do if you were MP?Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
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Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
McCown's career rating is higher than any Browns QB for the last decade.
Your argument is done. Moving on.
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Yes, JM did look better in this preseason action. But what gets me is this: JM is currently the backup qb, and the starter is someone who IS TERRIBLE. And has BEEN TERRIBLE FOR OVER A DECADE. The guy has been in the nfl for 13 years(mostly as a backup, but enough playing time) and in those THIRTEEN YEARS he has only had one little stretch of good play(the 8 games with the bears, and even in those its misleading due to game pace, game situation, etc). The bottom line is that there is every reason to expect:
1) Josh Mccown is a terrible qb. We have 13 years of terrible play(save for one 8 game stretch) to base that on. Even more importantly, his most recent performance completely blew goats just like 95% of his career, so there is no reason to believe that brief 8 game stretch is reproducable
2) Josh Mccown will be TERRIBLE this year as qb. Simply because he's been terrible all his whole career. I'll laugh if by game 3 or whatever you guys are disappointed and frustrated by terrible qb play by Mcown. What else would you expect?
So my concerns about our qb situation and Manziel going forward is that if he cant beat out Mclown(a terrible qb!), what does that mean? Worse, he's apparently not even close to beating out mclown!! How bad does one have to suck if MP is thinking "he's not even close to as good right now as a really really bad 13 year journeyman".....
So either MP and the staff are incredibly stupid and poor evaluators, or JM really really really sucks(since Mclown really really sucks)
The bottom line is that are qb situation is absolutely atrocious now. We're competing with the Jets and maybe a couple of other teams for dead last in terms of our qb situation. Although honestly Kirkpatrick is probably a touch better than McClown.
McCown's career rating is higher than any Browns QB for the last decade.
Your argument is done. Moving on.
McCown's career rating is higher than any Browns QB for the last decade.
Your argument is done. Moving on.
Well, overall, I am on your side of this argument. I think he will be really good this year.
But his career rating is 76.1
Hoyer, 76.8 ... 77.6 with the Browns
Campbell, 81.7 ... 76.9 with the Browns
McCoy, 78.2 ... but only 74.8 with the Browns
Garcia 87.5 ... 76.7 with the Browns
Holcomb 79.2 ... 83.3 with the Browns
So ... no.
Zombo
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McCown's career rating is higher than any Browns QB for the last decade.
Your argument is done. Moving on.
Well, overall, I am on your side of this argument. I think he will be really good this year.
But his career rating is 76.1
Hoyer, 76.8 ... 77.6 with the Browns
Campbell, 81.7 ... 76.9 with the Browns
McCoy, 78.2 ... but only 74.8 with the Browns
Garcia 87.5 ... 76.7 with the Browns
Holcomb 79.2 ... 83.3 with the Browns
So ... no.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, overall, I am on your side of this argument. I think he will be really good this year.
But his career rating is 76.1
Hoyer, 76.8 ... 77.6 with the Browns
Campbell, 81.7 ... 76.9 with the Browns
McCoy, 78.2 ... but only 74.8 with the Browns
Garcia 87.5 ... 76.7 with the Browns
Holcomb 79.2 ... 83.3 with the Browns
So ... no.
Zombo
A mobile Google search returns his rating as an 84.5, which is what I was basing my post off of.
It seems that may be just his career rating as a starter, I guess.
I'm actually not sure what structured data Google is pulling for their report. Whatever the variables are, they have McCown with a higher career rating than any other Browns QB in a long time.
Now, to do some digging...
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So apparently slight differences in quarterback rating are not really reliable predictors of success in the NFL. Fair to say?
WSS
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Zombo said:
Well, overall, I am on your side of this argument. I think he will be really good this year.
But his career rating is 76.1
Hoyer, 76.8 ... 77.6 with the Browns
Campbell, 81.7 ... 76.9 with the Browns
McCoy, 78.2 ... but only 74.8 with the Browns
Garcia 87.5 ... 76.7 with the Browns
Holcomb 79.2 ... 83.3 with the Browns
So ... no.
Zombo
A mobile Google search returns his rating as an 84.5, which is what I was basing my post off of.
It seems that may be just his career rating as a starter, I guess.
I'm actually not sure what structured data Google is pulling for their report. Whatever the variables are, they have McCown with a higher career rating than any other Browns QB in a long time.
Now, to do some digging...
A mobile Google search returns his rating as an 84.5, which is what I was basing my post off of.
It seems that may be just his career rating as a starter, I guess.
I'm actually not sure what structured data Google is pulling for their report. Whatever the variables are, they have McCown with a higher career rating than any other Browns QB in a long time.
Now, to do some digging...
Ya, could be his rating as a starter versus other Browns as starters. suffice to say, none of them are too hot. I went back to 99 nad Holcomb's 83.3 was tops, but his best efforts were probably in relief as well.
We haven't had an above average startng QB in 16 years. Not sure we've had too many "average" ones. The bar is not high.
Zombo
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