Jonathan Paul Manziel
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can the media lay off him?
The answer, mik, is "No, they can't."
Media will do all it can to revive JFF. Christ... in the build up to the Bills' game they were using JM's image to frame the game. When is the last time a 2nd-string QB was used to try to raise viewership?
And you had to know a "QB Controversy" was going to be the topic of the week (weak?). I'm tired of it already...
But my reaction does not matter...
There's only one that does...
Keep your head down and keep working Johnny-boy!
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I'd love to see Johnny sit this year, get better, learn the offense, and build up the arm like Drew Brees did for several years.
The players who have disappointed so far are: Mayle, The RB's, The TE's except Bibbs, and Cam Erving.
It's water under the bridge but I can see The Ravens TE Maxx Williams being the next Gronk, he was the guy I wanted in the 2nd
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NFL Network and others have been labeling it a QB competition since McCown was signed despite the coach continually saying McCown is the starter and Johnny is a wait-and-see.
JFF never left, except on the swans--hopefully.
NFL Network and others have been labeling it a QB competition since McCown was signed despite the coach continually saying McCown is the starter and Johnny is a wait-and-see.
JFF never left, except on the swans--hopefully.
I know it's press vs. reality (not reality TV), but the real JFF went to rehab, emerged as JM, then stayed out of sight and unavailable until well into TC.
As for the competition... again it's a reality vs. press situation. In reality there is no competition. Pet has finally gotten that right.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'd love to see Johnny sit this year, get better, learn the offense, and build up the arm like Drew Brees did for several years.
The players who have disappointed so far are: Mayle, The RB's, The TE's except Bibbs, and Cam Erving.
It's water under the bridge but I can see The Ravens TE Maxx Williams being the next Gronk, he was the guy I wanted in the 2nd
I'd love to see Johnny sit this year, get better, learn the offense, and build up the arm like Drew Brees did for several years.
The players who have disappointed so far are: Mayle, The RB's, The TE's except Bibbs, and Cam Erving.
It's water under the bridge but I can see The Ravens TE Maxx Williams being the next Gronk, he was the guy I wanted in the 2nd
I think Manziel would benefit, and the coaching staff, from seeing him get some reps with the 1s vs. Tampa. It isn't a competition, and he may very well not be ready for the job--most likely--but the org can learn a lot from seeing where he's at. McCown should start Week 1, but those reps are important for long-term. I don't see McCown being all that great this season, and if JM isn't ready, that's just going to be how things go. He'll help himself much more by getting those reps in a more meaningful game situation than against backups. He's looking better, but still like a rookie because last year was a wash. Important to remember he's still 22 and wont turn 23 until the end of the season.
As for Maxx Williams, while I did like him a lot during the draft process, I don't think he'll end up anywhere near Gronk status a few years down the road. A good TE, but not the type of athlete that Gronk or Jimmy G are.
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NFL Network and others have been labeling it a QB competition since McCown was signed despite the coach continually saying McCown is the starter and Johnny is a wait-and-see.
JFF never left, except on the swans--hopefully.
I know it's press vs. reality (not reality TV), but the real JFF went to rehab, emerged as JM, then stayed out of sight and unavailable until well into TC.
As for the competition... again it's a reality vs. press situation. In reality there is no competition. Pet has finally gotten that right.
I know it's press vs. reality (not reality TV), but the real JFF went to rehab, emerged as JM, then stayed out of sight and unavailable until well into TC.
As for the competition... again it's a reality vs. press situation. In reality there is no competition. Pet has finally gotten that right.
This says it all
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the media can only F manziel at this point. if it starts creeping in his head that he is the UBER shit QB and everyone loves him i think it could mess with his head to a point of breaking his sobriety.
just from someone that has seen it happen first hand.
don't want him on 'the porch' with gordon and blackmon drinking purple drank and smoking blunts. he's come too far.
(damn, where's my weed man at??)
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the media can only F manziel at this point. if it starts creeping in his head that he is the UBER shit QB and everyone loves him i think it could mess with his head to a point of breaking his sobriety.
just from someone that has seen it happen first hand.
don't want him on 'the porch' with gordon and blackmon drinking purple drank and smoking blunts. he's come too far.
(damn, where's my weed man at??)
the media can only F manziel at this point. if it starts creeping in his head that he is the UBER shit QB and everyone loves him i think it could mess with his head to a point of breaking his sobriety.
just from someone that has seen it happen first hand.
don't want him on 'the porch' with gordon and blackmon drinking purple drank and smoking blunts. he's come too far.
(damn, where's my weed man at??)
The real test will be if he gets his game back...plays GREAT.....and becomes Johnny Football again....
Hopefully, he keeps his head on straight and doesnt get too full of himself......or turn back into jerk.....
But thats something Id definitely like to find out!!!!!
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I know it's press vs. reality (not reality TV), but the real JFF went to rehab, emerged as JM, then stayed out of sight and unavailable until well into TC.
As for the competition... again it's a reality vs. press situation. In reality there is no competition. Pet has finally gotten that right.
This says it all
Where you been at? Get locked up in TJ?
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Where you been at? Get locked up in TJ?
Where you been at? Get locked up in TJ?
Z put me on an extended vacation and I forgot the URL.
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Where you been at? Get locked up in TJ?
Z put me on an extended vacation and I forgot the URL.
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the media can only F manziel at this point. if it starts creeping in his head that he is the UBER shit QB and everyone loves him i think it could mess with his head to a point of breaking his sobriety.
just from someone that has seen it happen first hand.
don't want him on 'the porch' with gordon and blackmon drinking purple drank and smoking blunts. he's come too far.
(damn, where's my weed man at??)
The real test will be if he gets his game back...plays GREAT.....and becomes Johnny Football again....
Hopefully, he keeps his head on straight and doesnt get too full of himself......or turn back into jerk.....
But thats something Id definitely like to find out!!!!!
The real test will be if he gets his game back...plays GREAT.....and becomes Johnny Football again....
Hopefully, he keeps his head on straight and doesnt get too full of himself......or turn back into jerk.....
But thats something Id definitely like to find out!!!!!
What we want is the JF that plays the game on a highly competitive level but is able to handle it as JM once the game is over. We see signs that this is in process of becoming reality on both accounts. You have to admit that when he's back there on a real excellent drive, he is very entertaining to watch operating as JFF. The media can't let that go any more than they could Tebow Time. And truthfully none of us really does when it's really clicking on all 8 with the crowd right there behind them. Damn it's fun to watch. Nothing more fun than yelling, "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO............Holy Shit how'd you do that you little fucker?" That long pass on the run to his left to set up the TD is a great example. There was another guy open much closer, but he went for all the marbles with a pro catch on the other end of it by Jennings.
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i was liking manziel until he made some typical 'johnny' mistakes. man if we only had some WRs that could out-jump the defenders.......(HMMM)
nothing has changed. mccown will be the starter and until manziel out performs in practice, on the field, or in the film room that's the way it'll be barring injury.
what we really need to talk about is the RB position......
but that's for another thread.
i was liking manziel until he made some typical 'johnny' mistakes. man if we only had some WRs that could out-jump the defenders.......(HMMM)
nothing has changed. mccown will be the starter and until manziel out performs in practice, on the field, or in the film room that's the way it'll be barring injury.
what we really need to talk about is the RB position......
but that's for another thread.
Mik, you've had some really good posts in this thread. In particular, I like how honest you are with seeing progress in Manziel on and off the field while understanding he's still a work in progress. There's only 1 small nitpick/disagreement I have with you; but I'm probably the one swimming against the current of popular opinion on it (not you). I actually like a QB with the gonads to trust his athletes on the perimeter to go up and make a play on the ball especially IF there's been a history of success. Some decisions that look like head scratchers to us fans aren't to QBs that want/need to learn what they can and can't do at this level. Peyton Manning threw 28 INTs as a rookie while Brett Favre was called Wild Thing for the INTs the first year he started. Brees' 3rd NFL season was only 10 or 11 TD passes to 15 INTs. Part of potty training includes dirty diapers.
I watched some of the ESPN pregame where the Suzy Kolber, Cris Carter, Mike Ditka and Me-shawn Johnson focused more on how many different front offices, HCs, QBs, OCs and bad draft picks Cleveland has had in the last decade Then they dug deeper with their dysfunction angle pointing out Haslam's early mistakes, Manziel's 10 week rehab, Farmer's suspension, letting Hoyer go for McCown, and Josh Gordon choosing marijuana over football again. All true; but such a collective stance conveniently leaves out this franchise got off to a 6-3 start (and then 7-4) in 2014 coming off 4-12 the previous year in spite of an outrageous injury volume. While Cleveland almost doubled its wins - they also had 2nd half leads or tie scores on the following teams they lost to: Pittsburgh (opener), Balt twice, Buffalo, Carolina, and Indy (all playoff teams except Buffalo who sported a playoff caliber D). If that doesn't show someone doing research a much improved competitive level here - they're not researching very diligently at all. That's what I've come to expect from national media that isn't dialed into this team year round. Props to Mike Tirico for showing me someone from ESPN felt like researching the Cleveland team he was talking about to a national audience.
I totally get and understand the concern people in here have about Manziel and the media moving forward or how he would handle success when/if achieved. Having said that, our leadership couldn't have handled the Manziel situation any better in 2015 beginning with whoever got him to look in the mirror for the come to Jesus moment. The story unfolding here reminds me a lot of Brett Favre going from Happy Hours in Atlanta as a rookie to an organization that knew they had to surround him with the right people at all different layers. The addiction didn't start with vicodin - it actually began with what took place before a very serious car accident that almost killed Favre at So Miss. Once these guys learn the hard way they aren't invincible to the extent of some humility - that can work in their favor moving forward. The key is what they are surrounded by; and our organization seems committed to understanding that like GB needed to be for Favre.
I like how Pettine is taking the pressure off of both his QBs in almost a "you have nothing to lose" mentality. Very masterfully, he's dangling this type of carrot to Manziel: "You're not being asked or expected to unseat a Joe Montana here. All you have to do is put the preparation in; and let the chips fall where they may. America tells us we're out of our minds; but we prefer to let Manziel define Manziel and we're not sorry about that at all today. You have nothing to lose while Josh is committed to helping you and us." As Pettine noticed considerable progress on the practice field - he told reporters it's fun to watch Manziel experience some success that his hard work is enabling. Now, one of his biggest previous critics (Joe Thomas) can't help but commenting on how fun he is to watch when he takes things this seriously. Joe also added it's fun to watch teammates feel the same way.
Meanwhile, McCown has continued to read he was the pond scum of FA QBs available so however long he can start before Manziel comes of age is gravy. Pettine is clever enough to play this up for both his QBs while reminding them we will have a good running game to lean on. Pettine has a lot of fun proving the national media wrong like that 7-4 start nobody but Pettine had in mind for this franchise in 2014.
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Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
Good reply.
I heard some analyst say this about Kirk Cousins, so I'll apply it here.
If Manziel is succeeding versus the 2s and 3s, doesn't that mean it's possible he's a 1?
Hmm
Good reply.
I heard some analyst say this about Kirk Cousins, so I'll apply it here.
If Manziel is succeeding versus the 2s and 3s, doesn't that mean it's possible he's a 1?
Hmm
Thanks! I definitely liked seeing him move our 2s and 3s against their 2s and 3s. I'd be a whole lot less enthusiastic if he couldn't.
It looks like you were on this board in the past so welcome back! Stick around. As this thread shows, there's a lot of passionate fans that give you good stuff to read in here.
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Manziel, on the other hand was playing against guys that probably won't even make an NFL roster. the only thing more worthless than preseason football is 4th quarter preseason football. We all know Manziel is good against college level talent. I want to see what he has against NFL starters.
Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
I certainly want to see Manziel succeed and am happy that he is committing himself but like I said: we know he is good against college level players, and at tamu he played WITH lot of college level players. He had Mike Evans but most of the guys who played offense with Manziel are nowhere near an NFL roster. Mccown was being pressured by guys like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus, Johnny was being pressured by guys that will be working as bouncers in the flats this September.
Not saying John Manziel can't be a franchise guy, I'm saying he needs to show it to me while playing real football games against real NFL players.
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Let's not take it all too far out of context. If you're gonna stand firmly behind Johnny's performance was against backups and scrubs - you need to acknowledge who he was throwing to, handing off to and being protected by up-front. As I said at the bottom of the previous page of this thread - the progress looks encouraging while there's always room for young QBs to improve in this league. Most of his mistakes can be corrected with film, coaching and reps.
There were some worthwhile things to evaluate like accuracy of throws, arm strength, pocket patience/presence, play action fakes, etc. That bootleg to the left absolutely froze that outside pass rusher making it easy to get around him to complete the throw. I don't think that McCown looked any more patient in the pocket than Manziel did vrs Buffalo. That said, I'm not going to waste much time worrying about it just yet.
We have a 22 year old QB that should be a red shirt senior looking like the exciting football player/QB Joe Thomas described. The best way for the game to slow down for him is via the preparations we've been reading about and reps/experience.
I certainly want to see Manziel succeed and am happy that he is committing himself but like I said: we know he is good against college level players, and at tamu he played WITH lot of college level players. He had Mike Evans but most of the guys who played offense with Manziel are nowhere near an NFL roster. Mccown was being pressured by guys like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus, Johnny was being pressured by guys that will be working as bouncers in the flats this September.
Not saying John Manziel can't be a franchise guy, I'm saying he needs to show it to me while playing real football games against real NFL players.
I certainly want to see Manziel succeed and am happy that he is committing himself but like I said: we know he is good against college level players, and at tamu he played WITH lot of college level players. He had Mike Evans but most of the guys who played offense with Manziel are nowhere near an NFL roster. Mccown was being pressured by guys like Mario Williams and Marcell Dareus, Johnny was being pressured by guys that will be working as bouncers in the flats this September.
Not saying John Manziel can't be a franchise guy, I'm saying he needs to show it to me while playing real football games against real NFL players.
I agree with your last point above. That said, he's only had 2 NFL starts at age 21 so we're pretty much on the second sentence of the introduction page of his story. If they cut Troy Aikman, Drew Brees, Steve Young, Aaron Rodgers, Steve McNair, Tom Brady (who wore blue jeans to his first 16 NFL games), Warren Moon, Joe Theisman based on the lack of accomplishments before age 22 - we're gonna erase a ton of Pro Bowl QBs from the history of this league. It would have been nice to see John Elway's NFL career end after his rookie year because that told us absolutely nothing about who he was going to be. Not saying this is you; but I don't know why some guys can't wait to remind us they predicted Manziel would struggle or not make it at all. Is that something new about rookie QBs in Cleveland?
Before I go any further Royce - you're definitely not the only fan that thinks "yeah, but he only did it against backups." I'm just using your post as an ideal opportunity to clarify something about that. Some of our first paragraph above is only addressing 50% of the picture. I'm fully aware of who was defending McCown just like I'm aware he had starters to throw to, hand off to and protect him upfront. What you keep choosing to miss is Manziel was protected by and throwing to backups, practice squad hopefuls and guys that will be cut. The good news is he played well with that especially considering the guys that tend to mess up routes/blitz adjustments, backfield protections and just assignments in general are newbies and inexperienced players. You want your QB to be able to get the ball to the hands of the receivers. One guy dropped a couple while others caught the ball and increased their chances of making the team.
I think Joe Thomas got it right when he talked about how fun/exciting it was to watch. That's a credible team leader giving hard work and preparation a stamp of approval. Since you bring up college - Manziel never really had to spend time in the film room to ace the gig so is it conceivable we may be looking at a bigger ceiling if he remains studious while the game slows down? I hope so. Also, Gruden said at one point Rex had Buffalo blitzing Manziel on every play and I liked how he handled it so people can't break out the "he only did it against vanilla" excuse. There's still a lot of work to be done for this 22 year old work in progress and we agree on that.
A&M had a decent volume offensive guys drafted. They had LTs drafted in upper round 1 in back to back drafts. Ryan Swope was also drafted by Miami but a couple more concussions ended his NFL career before it ever got off the ground. At the time, Manziel was only doing this against college players - wasn't A&M warned that the caliber of the SEC opponents they were now going to face was stockpiling the NFL draft at much higher rates than any other conference? It's a good thing they showed up to their games anyway because what other team was going to beat Nick Saban's National Champions in Alabama? That was my first impression of a QB that I thought was being over-hyped beforehand. What I remembered most was a QB elevating everyone's game around him enough to beat an opponent they weren't supposed to beat (using Swope as his weapon of mass destruction that day). Kind of like Kosar beating Nebraska or Rodgers beating USC or Montana beating Texas. If a guy is going to be drafted by a team that went 4-12 - it's nice to see he's already been beating more talented teams he wasn't supposed to.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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Just to add to Flugel's comments about the level of play and elevating those around him, Nick Saban himself told JM he was the most competitive person he had ever seen in the game of football regardless of level, including HS, College and NFL. I'd say that is a pretty damn good endorsement. Roger Staubach said something in a similar vein. I believe seeing the light and doing something about it in rehab is very much a part of that personality trait. Same goes for deciding his game needs changing. He's changing for the better week to week and none of has us a real clue as to how far that will take him yet.
I do know that as he gets better the level of play around him will go up accordingly. One of the keys to his success in college was teaching his teammates not to watch the "show" behind them, but to keep right on with their blocking and/or attempts to get open until the whistle blew, because often he would come back by them again still looking for receivers downfield. One of the things I liked most about the TD drive Thursday was watching how his teammates responded to him when it was completed. You could see they loved being a part of that whether they were on the field or not.
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