Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Well....Hoyer just got named as the starter by Obrien.....so good for him....!
However, I do find it ironic that he left here because he couldnt take the pressure of having someone pressing behind him and he didnt like being in a QB competition....yet, he went to a team that offered both......just kind of weird....
I do wish him the best.....though, if he does well, I suspect we'll have to hear about it all year long ......
I'd clearly say that isn't accurate based on not only signing with the Texans, but beating out Mallet.
I'd clearly say that isn't accurate based on not only signing with the Texans, but beating out Mallet.
Well....cant say definitively either way....but it was my impression that he didnt like it and it got in his head......and he said, in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to sign with a team where he would start....his words, not mine.....thus the irony.....
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McCown has a sore hand
Manziel has an issue with his elbow (strained?)
Shaw's out with thumb surgery
Leaves us with Thad Lewis or possibly Pryor waiting in the wings.
Not a cheerful outlook to start the Season.
I agree.....it's not a cheerful outlook .....considering both McCown and Manziel are fine(just sore) and will practice and play this week.....
...the gloom and doom parade already has us down to the 4th and 5th stringer cause a couple of guys are sore? ....sheesh....
Arent you the same guy that told us Shelton was out for the season with a knee injury just a couple of weeks ago?......
I agree.....it's not a cheerful outlook .....considering both McCown and Manziel are fine(just sore) and will practice and play this week.....
...the gloom and doom parade already has us down to the 4th and 5th stringer cause a couple of guys are sore? ....sheesh....
Arent you the same guy that told us Shelton was out for the season with a knee injury just a couple of weeks ago?......
Really. Whoever heard of getting sore in a contact sport?
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i'm still hoping for some ray farmer 'nothing up my sleeve' back-room QB grab. not to say i'm whining about our QBs (never been a huge t. lewis fan though) but if there's any possible way to upgrade at any position i think farmer is always looking....
some of these kids that came out a couple of years ago that i would take a serious look at is one, mettneberger and then the other is the kid that played for PITT tom savage. both have cannons and you need that in cleveland come the winter time.
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I'd clearly say that isn't accurate based on not only signing with the Texans, but beating out Mallet.
Well....cant say definitively either way....but it was my impression that he didnt like it and it got in his head......and he said, in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to sign with a team where he would start....his words, not mine.....thus the irony.....
Well....cant say definitively either way....but it was my impression that he didnt like it and it got in his head......and he said, in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to sign with a team where he would start....his words, not mine.....thus the irony.....
I guess it's my interpretation that he would want a fair chance to start. Not someone who would start over him based on draft position or expectations Ala Manziel.
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Speaking of Hoyer, his whole ascent to a starting NFL position began when, as a undrafted F/a in 2009 he beat out Patriots third round pick ... Kevin O'Connell, Browns current QB coach.
I think it would be awesome to add him to the roster and suit him up Saturday if Johnny can't go.
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I agree with those who recognize the importance of who was up front of them having a huge impact on a QB's ratings. If you are already running for your life inside 2 seconds even Superman would suffer. At the moment I am a little worried about ours. I know they were going against one of the best D lines in Buffalo, but they were porous and it affected McCown's decisions. He started looking like.................Cutler. Or Romo before they improved the front drastically.
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Well....cant say definitively either way....but it was my impression that he didnt like it and it got in his head......and he said, in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to sign with a team where he would start....his words, not mine.....thus the irony.....
I guess it's my interpretation that he would want a fair chance to start. Not someone who would start over him based on draft position or expectations Ala Manziel.
I guess it's my interpretation that he would want a fair chance to start. Not someone who would start over him based on draft position or expectations Ala Manziel.
yes....he eventually changed his tune to that(just wnting a fair chance)......cause no one was gonna offer him a starting role just because.....
Id say he had fair chance here too.....didnt he?......yet he implied otherwise several times......and, maybe you dont remember, but he hesitated big time as soon as he found out Texas had picked up Mallett.....doubled down to rethink things and have another meeting before agreeing to sign......
In the end.....its just my opinion, but me thinks he has confidence issues.....and they will reappear if/when things dont go well.....
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I say this Tom: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoJo01.htm
49 starts in 12 years in the league. 61\59 td- int, 76 career qbr. So if you want to tell me the exception proves the rule- be my guest. Journeyman mentor to JF, nothing more. If he was anything better than that- he'd have more than an average of 4 starts a year. Not realistic to expect him to pull a 109 qbr out of his 36 year old ass. Pettine is wishin' and a hopein'.
Be generous- maybe 25 or so.
This is the one and only time I'll say this -- McCown is no better/worse than Hoyer. They're both below average players who can flash at times, but eventually come back down to mean. Why are people here/everywhere dismissing him, but were clinging onto Hoyer last year at this time? Is it the hometown thing, or was it the small sample size that made people want to believe Hoyer was better?
This is the one and only time I'll say this -- McCown is no better/worse than Hoyer. They're both below average players who can flash at times, but eventually come back down to mean. Why are people here/everywhere dismissing him, but were clinging onto Hoyer last year at this time? Is it the hometown thing, or was it the small sample size that made people want to believe Hoyer was better?
Both of the above. Hoyer looked decent until he blew out his knee against the Bills. Admittedly, he regressed badly later in the season last year. Could he have not been fully recovered from that ACL? We'll find out this year. It's second nature with Browns fans to want the hometown kid to succeed.
Sad that LeCharles Bentley and Joe Jurevicius had their careers ended by injury.
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I agree with those who recognize the importance of who was up front of them having a huge impact on a QB's ratings. If you are already running for your life inside 2 seconds even Superman would suffer. At the moment I am a little worried about ours. I know they were going against one of the best D lines in Buffalo, but they were porous and it affected McCown's decisions. He started looking like.................Cutler. Or Romo before they improved the front drastically.
I agree with those who recognize the importance of who was up front of them having a huge impact on a QB's ratings. If you are already running for your life inside 2 seconds even Superman would suffer. At the moment I am a little worried about ours. I know they were going against one of the best D lines in Buffalo, but they were porous and it affected McCown's decisions. He started looking like.................Cutler. Or Romo before they improved the front drastically.
the most painful thing i watched outside of 'fear the walking dead' was the inept redskin OL and the once again downfall of RG3.
he should demand a trade. yikes.
and so much for the gruden coaching tree. it was hilarious to see john gruden back pedal so fast on his comments from a year ago about manziel. dude is a phony.
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I agree with those who recognize the importance of who was up front of them having a huge impact on a QB's ratings. If you are already running for your life inside 2 seconds even Superman would suffer. At the moment I am a little worried about ours. I know they were going against one of the best D lines in Buffalo, but they were porous and it affected McCown's decisions. He started looking like.................Cutler. Or Romo before they improved the front drastically.
the most painful thing i watched outside of 'fear the walking dead' was the inept redskin OL and the once again downfall of RG3.
he should demand a trade. yikes.
and so much for the gruden coaching tree. it was hilarious to see john gruden back pedal so fast on his comments from a year ago about manziel. dude is a phony.
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i'm still hoping for some ray farmer 'nothing up my sleeve' back-room QB grab. not to say i'm whining about our QBs (never been a huge t. lewis fan though) but if there's any possible way to upgrade at any position i think farmer is always looking....
some of these kids that came out a couple of years ago that i would take a serious look at is one, mettneberger and then the other is the kid that played for PITT tom savage. both have cannons and you need that in cleveland come the winter time.
i'm still hoping for some ray farmer 'nothing up my sleeve' back-room QB grab. not to say i'm whining about our QBs (never been a huge t. lewis fan though) but if there's any possible way to upgrade at any position i think farmer is always looking....
some of these kids that came out a couple of years ago that i would take a serious look at is one, mettneberger and then the other is the kid that played for PITT tom savage. both have cannons and you need that in cleveland come the winter time.
I would love to see either in brown.
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curious- how many of you guys actually watched mcclown play last year? He played 80% or so of the season, and he was terrible. Atrocious. Unfortunately, as bad as he was it wasn't that far below his typical performance all throughout his career(in 11/12 seasons). Why is this year going to be any different?
I don't have anything against the guy....he is what he is. I also don't have anything against colt McCoy, weeden, Jason Campbell, etc.....I'm actually defending the guy, because when he plays for us EXACTLY LIKE HE HAS DONE IN >90% OF HIS CAREER, I'm going to be the one saying "why are you down on the guy? He's playing as well as he has the vast majority of his career".
He's a placeholder QB, much like Hoyer. I really enjoy his approach, and his game isn't that bad as long as his pocket doesn't collapse quickly. That shouldn't be even nearly as big a problem as it has been in the past for him -- Tampa and Chicago both had really poor pass-blocking lines when he played in both places. I don't think anyone has any delusions that McCown is going to become an All Pro, well other than Dwayne Bowe.
The veteran receiver, in his first season with the team, dropped an A-bomb of positivity on Friday, starting with signal-caller Josh McCown. "He's showing all the potential of being a top-five quarterback in the NFL," Bowe said of the 36-year-old passer, per The Plain Dealer
He's a placeholder QB, much like Hoyer. I really enjoy his approach, and his game isn't that bad as long as his pocket doesn't collapse quickly. That shouldn't be even nearly as big a problem as it has been in the past for him -- Tampa and Chicago both had really poor pass-blocking lines when he played in both places. I don't think anyone has any delusions that McCown is going to become an All Pro, well other than Dwayne Bowe.
Well... some stud QB has to throw Bowe all those passes he thinks he is going to catch.
The difference between Hoyer and McCown is that McCown accepts the role you describe.
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
Expect is a bit strong, but certainly the circumstances in CLE are going to be closer to those in CHI than they were in TB. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the results to be closer to those in CHI.
Garner, Parmalee, Mayle, Jennings, Wynn, and Olsen aren't second string though.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there. Connor Shaw was more studious last preseason so he seemed to be where Manziel is this year - pleasantly surprising people.
So our scrubs were worse than their scrubs? Even if true, I'm not sure how that applies to my comment on the Defense slowing down.
Not that it'll be enough, but we agree on the bottom line, i.e., JM looks better than last year.
I suspect JM is showing enough progress that before this season is over they will likely throw him into the fire and see exactly what they have over a longer period of time.
Personally I hope McCown takes us to a lot of wins...
Your hope and your suspicion are in direct conflict. But such is the life of an Aggie Browns Fan...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I will get flamed for this, however I feel Hoyer would have been the best intermediate answer for the next 2-4 years. Sadly there was no deal or extension. While I believe McCown will suffice ok for certain things, I do not believe he handles pressure like Brian.
Now McCown may be more willing to impart his knowledge upon young Johnny, however that's the front office hinging their hopes he may yet become a complete QB. I will also say, I don't believe that day will come. Should the Browns happen to have one of the top 3 QB's in next class available to them when our pick is up - Im certain they would do just that.
I will get flamed for this, however I feel Hoyer would have been the best intermediate answer for the next 2-4 years. Sadly there was no deal or extension. While I believe McCown will suffice ok for certain things, I do not believe he handles pressure like Brian.
Now McCown may be more willing to impart his knowledge upon young Johnny, however that's the front office hinging their hopes he may yet become a complete QB. I will also say, I don't believe that day will come. Should the Browns happen to have one of the top 3 QB's in next class available to them when our pick is up - Im certain they would do just that.
Not going to flame, but will disagree. Mentally BH could not handle JM behind him and even the new, improved JM would not be satisfied to sit and learn behind BH. That well had been poisoned...
Not sure what "pressure" you are referring to since I see McCown as both more secure and more mobile.
As for the FO... no doubt they still believe. Also no doubt that belief is based upon what they have seen. It's not a blind belief. And it's not as if they've been satisfied that all is well and have now closed their eyes. The evaluation is incomplete and therefore continues. Drafting a 2016 QB is one potential outcome.
Well....Hoyer just got named as the starter by Obrien.....so good for him....!
However, I do find it ironic that he left here because he couldnt take the pressure of having someone pressing behind him and he didnt like being in a QB competition....yet, he went to a team that offered both......just kind of weird....
Agree... good for BH... not surprised tho. The surprise in HOU is Savage's progress.
However, I don't agree that the HOU situation is analogous to CLE a year ago. Mallet is not a "phenom". And HOU is not the home-town, "dream job" CLE was.
... and he said, in no uncertain terms, that he wanted to sign with a team where he would start....
... and he did...
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Meanwhile back on JM...
This second elbow flare up bothers me. Gotta guess tendonitis... I'd hate to see the kid get his head straight only to have his body betray him.
Flip's saying it's a consequence of camp work load and JM's 3/4 delivery. Here's hoping that's all...
Johnny Manziel's elbow soreness because of ingrained 3/4 release, Browns OC says
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/08/johnny_manziels_elbow_soreness.html
Article includes some good comments on JM's progress, improved accuracy, etc.
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He's a placeholder QB, much like Hoyer. I really enjoy his approach, and his game isn't that bad as long as his pocket doesn't collapse quickly. That shouldn't be even nearly as big a problem as it has been in the past for him -- Tampa and Chicago both had really poor pass-blocking lines when he played in both places. I don't think anyone has any delusions that McCown is going to become an All Pro, well other than Dwayne Bowe.
Well... some stud QB has to throw Bowe all those passes he thinks he is going to catch.
The difference between Hoyer and McCown is that McCown accepts the role you describe.
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
Expect is a bit strong, but certainly the circumstances in CLE are going to be closer to those in CHI than they were in TB. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the results to be closer to those in CHI.
Garner, Parmalee, Mayle, Jennings, Wynn, and Olsen aren't second string though.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there. Connor Shaw was more studious last preseason so he seemed to be where Manziel is this year - pleasantly surprising people.
So our scrubs were worse than their scrubs? Even if true, I'm not sure how that applies to my comment on the Defense slowing down.
Not that it'll be enough, but we agree on the bottom line, i.e., JM looks better than last year.
I suspect JM is showing enough progress that before this season is over they will likely throw him into the fire and see exactly what they have over a longer period of time.
Personally I hope McCown takes us to a lot of wins...
Your hope and your suspicion are in direct conflict. But such is the life of an Aggie Browns Fan...
Your hope and your suspicion are in direct conflict. But such is the life of an Aggie Browns Fan...
Yes, they are. I prefer McCown to play well for a couple/three years while JM learns the pro game a la Young, Rodgers, etc. He needs time and throwing him in too soon could ruin him for good. He is getting there but he's not there well enough yet to just jump in the deep end again. My concern is that the line may not be quite as good as everyone thinks for the kind of O we are trying to run. And if that is true then anyone behind them is going to struggle unless they are patient in allowing the D to hold the fort while not trying to overplay it on O.
What was that phrase you used? First, do no harm?
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McCown has a sore hand
Manziel has an issue with his elbow (strained?)
Shaw's out with thumb surgery
Leaves us with Thad Lewis or possibly Pryor waiting in the wings.
Not a cheerful outlook to start the Season.
I agree.....it's not a cheerful outlook .....considering both McCown and Manziel are fine(just sore) and will practice and play this week.....
...the gloom and doom parade already has us down to the 4th and 5th stringer cause a couple of guys are sore? ....sheesh....
Arent you the same guy that told us Shelton was out for the season with a knee injury just a couple of weeks ago?......
I agree.....it's not a cheerful outlook .....considering both McCown and Manziel are fine(just sore) and will practice and play this week.....
...the gloom and doom parade already has us down to the 4th and 5th stringer cause a couple of guys are sore? ....sheesh....
Arent you the same guy that told us Shelton was out for the season with a knee injury just a couple of weeks ago?......
Yep, that was the story going around, just passing it along.
McCown, other than the sore hand it was also reported that he'd been limping around.
He's not exactly a Spring Chicken, so it does cast a specter over things.
As for Manziel, he's been wearing an Icepack on his arm for some time now.
The elbow sounds like it could be Tendonitis, no small concern there if that's truely the case.
Doom & Gloom ?
Sure, why not, I've drunk quite a bit of the Koolaid they've been passing out over the years.
Heck, I even thought Gilbert was going to turn it around this year after all the work he's put in the Off-Season with Haden - that one didn't turn out too well though . . .
One thing I'm wondering about is where this top paid Front 7 Defense is.
Guess they're all on IR like our RBs and WR's
Hey, I called for 8 - 8 this year.
That's an improvement with our schedule this year . . . guess there's still a little Koolaid left over
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I agree with those who recognize the importance of who was up front of them having a huge impact on a QB's ratings. If you are already running for your life inside 2 seconds even Superman would suffer. At the moment I am a little worried about ours. I know they were going against one of the best D lines in Buffalo, but they were porous and it affected McCown's decisions. He started looking like.................Cutler. Or Romo before they improved the front drastically.
the most painful thing i watched outside of 'fear the walking dead' was the inept redskin OL and the once again downfall of RG3.
he should demand a trade. yikes.
and so much for the gruden coaching tree. it was hilarious to see john gruden back pedal so fast on his comments from a year ago about manziel. dude is a phony.
the most painful thing i watched outside of 'fear the walking dead' was the inept redskin OL and the once again downfall of RG3.
he should demand a trade. yikes.
and so much for the gruden coaching tree. it was hilarious to see john gruden back pedal so fast on his comments from a year ago about manziel. dude is a phony.
RG3 sucks. Guy was a wasted draft pick.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Meanwhile back on JM...
This second elbow flare up bothers me. Gotta guess tendonitis... I'd hate to see the kid get his head straight only to have his body betray him.
Flip's saying it's a consequence of camp work load and JM's 3/4 delivery. Here's hoping that's all...
Johnny Manziel's elbow soreness because of ingrained 3/4 release, Browns OC says
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/08/johnny_manziels_elbow_soreness.html
Article includes some good comments on JM's progress, improved accuracy, etc.
Meanwhile back on JM...
This second elbow flare up bothers me. Gotta guess tendonitis... I'd hate to see the kid get his head straight only to have his body betray him.
Flip's saying it's a consequence of camp work load and JM's 3/4 delivery. Here's hoping that's all...
Johnny Manziel's elbow soreness because of ingrained 3/4 release, Browns OC says
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/08/johnny_manziels_elbow_soreness.html
Article includes some good comments on JM's progress, improved accuracy, etc.
5 foot 11 quarterback with a 3/4 release ... when does this nightmare end?
Just glad it's not related to the vaginal strain that ended his season last year.
Z
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the most painful thing i watched outside of 'fear the walking dead' was the inept redskin OL and the once again downfall of RG3.
he should demand a trade. yikes.
and so much for the gruden coaching tree. it was hilarious to see john gruden back pedal so fast on his comments from a year ago about manziel. dude is a phony.
RG3 sucks. Guy was a wasted draft pick.
RG3 sucks. Guy was a wasted draft pick.
Yes he was, but he had some of the most smartest and bestest guys on the interwebs and planet tell everybody just how great he was going to be.....over and nauseatingly over.
I bet McCoy starts more games than him this year. Either him or Cousins or both.
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I agree.....it's not a cheerful outlook .....considering both McCown and Manziel are fine(just sore) and will practice and play this week.....
...the gloom and doom parade already has us down to the 4th and 5th stringer cause a couple of guys are sore? ....sheesh....
Arent you the same guy that told us Shelton was out for the season with a knee injury just a couple of weeks ago?......
Yep, that was the story going around, just passing it along.
McCown, other than the sore hand it was also reported that he'd been limping around.
He's not exactly a Spring Chicken, so it does cast a specter over things.
As for Manziel, he's been wearing an Icepack on his arm for some time now.
The elbow sounds like it could be Tendonitis, no small concern there if that's truely the case.
Doom & Gloom ?
Sure, why not, I've drunk quite a bit of the Koolaid they've been passing out over the years.
Heck, I even thought Gilbert was going to turn it around this year after all the work he's put in the Off-Season with Haden - that one didn't turn out too well though . . .
One thing I'm wondering about is where this top paid Front 7 Defense is.
Guess they're all on IR like our RBs and WR's
Hey, I called for 8 - 8 this year.
That's an improvement with our schedule this year . . . guess there's still a little Koolaid left over
Yep, that was the story going around, just passing it along.
McCown, other than the sore hand it was also reported that he'd been limping around.
He's not exactly a Spring Chicken, so it does cast a specter over things.
As for Manziel, he's been wearing an Icepack on his arm for some time now.
The elbow sounds like it could be Tendonitis, no small concern there if that's truely the case.
Doom & Gloom ?
Sure, why not, I've drunk quite a bit of the Koolaid they've been passing out over the years.
Heck, I even thought Gilbert was going to turn it around this year after all the work he's put in the Off-Season with Haden - that one didn't turn out too well though . . .
One thing I'm wondering about is where this top paid Front 7 Defense is.
Guess they're all on IR like our RBs and WR's
Hey, I called for 8 - 8 this year.
That's an improvement with our schedule this year . . . guess there's still a little Koolaid left over
Curious to know where this insider info is coming from regarding McCown.
I get insider info and listen to pretty much everybody in the Cleveland media with access to the team. Have not heard any of that. Not saying you are wrong, just wondering where it is coming from.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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