Jonathan Paul Manziel
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He's a placeholder QB, much like Hoyer. I really enjoy his approach, and his game isn't that bad as long as his pocket doesn't collapse quickly. That shouldn't be even nearly as big a problem as it has been in the past for him -- Tampa and Chicago both had really poor pass-blocking lines when he played in both places. I don't think anyone has any delusions that McCown is going to become an All Pro, well other than Dwayne Bowe.
Well... some stud QB has to throw Bowe all those passes he thinks he is going to catch.
The difference between Hoyer and McCown is that McCown accepts the role you describe.
If you toss out his one aberration year in Chicago- McCown is a low 70s qbr quarterback. I'm not expecting him to recapture the magic.
Expect is a bit strong, but certainly the circumstances in CLE are going to be closer to those in CHI than they were in TB. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect the results to be closer to those in CHI.
Garner, Parmalee, Mayle, Jennings, Wynn, and Olsen aren't second string though.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there. Connor Shaw was more studious last preseason so he seemed to be where Manziel is this year - pleasantly surprising people.
So our scrubs were worse than their scrubs? Even if true, I'm not sure how that applies to my comment on the Defense slowing down.
Not that it'll be enough, but we agree on the bottom line, i.e., JM looks better than last year.
I suspect JM is showing enough progress that before this season is over they will likely throw him into the fire and see exactly what they have over a longer period of time.
Personally I hope McCown takes us to a lot of wins...
Your hope and your suspicion are in direct conflict. But such is the life of an Aggie Browns Fan...
So our scrubs were worse than their scrubs? Even if true, I'm not sure how that applies to my comment on the Defense slowing down.
Would I really be typing all over this thread how good it was to see Manziel elevating the play of those around him if I thought such a thing?
You're comment was "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable." This was my reply:
Garner, Parmalee, Mayle, Jennings, Wynn, and Olsen aren't second string though. Gruden actually made it a point to say Buffalo was blitzing Manziel on almost every play at 1 point. It's often said NFL offenses are behind the defenses in training camp and early on in preseason. Now let's factor in how much easier it is to play fast when the only thing you have to think about is sic em.
Furthermore, many of the offensive guys trying to make this roster from the 3rd and 4th strings include many undrafted rookies. They not only had to know our playbook but they also had to recognize the defense and adjust appropriately whether it's a RB like Parmalee picking up a blitz to protect his QB or knowing how to get open to be useful. WRs also have to know how to adjust their routes accordingly and be on the same page with their 22 year old QB. In spite of how much room for error we had - there was actually evidence of 3rd and 4th string WRs being on the same page with Manziel. Jennings and Wynn made some plays while Mayle exhibited a little stage fright.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Curious to know where this insider info is coming from regarding McCown.
I get insider info and listen to pretty much everybody in the Cleveland media with access to the team. Have not heard any of that. Not saying you are wrong, just wondering where it is coming from.
Some of it's from Twitter feeds, some from Radio, and some from Articles around the Net . . . basically all over the place, though I don't get as much info as I used too.
The McCown limp info was from one of the scrimmages with the Bills last week, and the hand issue happened in the game and was reported post-game and is now mentioned as soreness (it was a finger jam initially).
I know a lot of the stuff I post seems to have a negative slant to it, unfortunately the Browns tend to breed more of that than the good (Gordon, Gilbert, Manziel, injuries, and so forth).
I know a lot of the stuff I post seems to have a negative slant to it, unfortunately the Browns tend to breed more of that than the good (Gordon, Gilbert, Manziel, injuries, and so forth).
it's easy to be that way. we all could slide to the dark side considering the browns' record in the past years....
take away all the nonsense that is preseason and TC i think this team will do alright. let's let them hit the field and play an actual game before the hearses start rolling down main street.
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Sore arm worries me. It's not going to get any better thru the season. Sad that that is the by-product of the extra work he's been reported to be doing.
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These guys don't throw the ball near as much once camp ends, which makes Grossi's quote the other day about November sort of asinine. Here is Flip:
On if he is concerned about QB Johnny Manziel’s elbow:
“I’m not, I’m not. Johnny’s probably got what 30 to 40 percent of the other quarterbacks in the league have right now, sore elbow, sore shoulders. There’s a lot of wear and tear on those guys in terms of their arm. Those guys have been throwing footballs since they’ve been young guys. I’m not too concerned about it. If Joe Sheehan and the doctors come up to me and say’ Hey, this is something that’s going to be a chronic issue’ then there’s going to be some concern and we have to watch it but I’m not too concerned about Johnny right now, no. He’s doing fine.”
On if rest will take care of it:
“Once training camp is over and the volume of throws goes down usually that has a way of clearing up itself, it really doesn’t. I’ve been around guys before with elbow and shoulder issues that once they get out of camp and break camp after that first week. Your throw count goes down, there’s not as many receivers, you don’t get as many reps in the (individuals), your periods are cut shorter. You have a way of that calming down a little bit in the elbow and the shoulder.”
On if Manziel will practice today:
“I like to leave all injury issues to the head coach, just out of respect. I’m going to leave that to Coach Pettine.”
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So our scrubs were worse than their scrubs? Even if true, I'm not sure how that applies to my comment on the Defense slowing down.
Would I really be typing all over this thread how good it was to see Manziel elevating the play of those around him if I thought such a thing?
You're comment was "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable." This was my reply:
Garner, Parmalee, Mayle, Jennings, Wynn, and Olsen aren't second string though. Gruden actually made it a point to say Buffalo was blitzing Manziel on almost every play at 1 point. It's often said NFL offenses are behind the defenses in training camp and early on in preseason. Now let's factor in how much easier it is to play fast when the only thing you have to think about is sic em.
Furthermore, many of the offensive guys trying to make this roster from the 3rd and 4th strings include many undrafted rookies. They not only had to know our playbook but they also had to recognize the defense and adjust appropriately whether it's a RB like Parmalee picking up a blitz to protect his QB or knowing how to get open to be useful. WRs also have to know how to adjust their routes accordingly and be on the same page with their 22 year old QB. In spite of how much room for error we had - there was actually evidence of 3rd and 4th string WRs being on the same page with Manziel. Jennings and Wynn made some plays while Mayle exhibited a little stage fright.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there.
Would I really be typing all over this thread how good it was to see Manziel elevating the play of those around him if I thought such a thing?
You're comment was "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable." This was my reply:
Ah... so you think 3rd and 4th team UDFA WRs are running option routes. Got it...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sore arm worries me. It's not going to get any better thru the season. Sad that that is the by-product of the extra work he's been reported to be doing.
Sore arm worries me. It's not going to get any better thru the season. Sad that that is the by-product of the extra work he's been reported to be doing.
Tim Couch used to get tendinitis in training camp from all the reps; but I don't remember it ever getting in the way of him starting regular season games. I think this is something the trainers and can treat and get under control.
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Would I really be typing all over this thread how good it was to see Manziel elevating the play of those around him if I thought such a thing?
You're comment was "NFL 2nd teams slow down just enough to make QBs comfortable." This was my reply:
Ah... so you think 3rd and 4th team UDFA WRs are running option routes. Got it...
Ah... so you think 3rd and 4th team UDFA WRs are running option routes. Got it...
Really?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Sore arm worries me. It's not going to get any better thru the season. Sad that that is the by-product of the extra work he's been reported to be doing.
Tim Couch used to get tendinitis in training camp from all the reps; but I don't remember it ever getting in the way of him starting regular season games. I think this is something the trainers and can treat and get under control.
Tim Couch used to get tendinitis in training camp from all the reps; but I don't remember it ever getting in the way of him starting regular season games. I think this is something the trainers and can treat and get under control.
Good to know. I guess Johnny was too busy last year to get a sore arm.
Hah!! I made a Johnny joke!!
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Tim Couch used to get tendinitis in training camp from all the reps; but I don't remember it ever getting in the way of him starting regular season games. I think this is something the trainers and can treat and get under control.
Good to know. I guess Johnny was too busy last year to get a sore arm.
Hah!! I made a Johnny joke!!
Good to know. I guess Johnny was too busy last year to get a sore arm.
Hah!! I made a Johnny joke!!
I'm pretty sure he had hoisters wrist inflammation last year at some point.
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the most painful thing i watched outside of 'fear the walking dead' was the inept redskin OL and the once again downfall of RG3.
he should demand a trade. yikes.
and so much for the gruden coaching tree. it was hilarious to see john gruden back pedal so fast on his comments from a year ago about manziel. dude is a phony.
RG3 sucks. Guy was a wasted draft pick.
RG3 sucks. Guy was a wasted draft pick.
Jokes on Synder and Washington, because it sure as hell wasn't ONE pick they wasted on RG3.
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Washington: RG3
StL: Cornerback Janoris Jenkins, defensive tackle Michael Brockers, running back Zac Stacy, wide receiver Stedman Bailey, offensive tackle Greg Robinson and linebacker Alec Ogletree
Yeah, I'd say StLouis won that trade.
[this includes StL trading the 2013 first acquired in this trade to ATL on draft day in 2013 for 3 picks. ATL moved up for Trufant.]
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Really?
Yes, really... your last couple responses have been as if I was baiting you... I'm not. My reply that prompted the above was after a reread of your post. I do not know how else to interpret this part:
Furthermore, many of the offensive guys trying to make this roster from the 3rd and 4th strings include many undrafted rookies. They not only had to know our playbook but they also had to recognize the defense and adjust appropriately... WRs also have to know how to adjust their routes accordingly and be on the same page with their 22 year old QB.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there.
And, again, I still agree with last line.
However, it would surprise me if option routes were being run by Wynn and Jennings. I can't recall seeing evidence of option routes at all this pre-season, i.e., times when the ball is thrown to an empty area followed by the WR and QB staring at each other. I can recall sight adjustments, e.g., a quick slant to Benji, a couple bubble screens to Hawk, but they are 1's... and those are sight adjustments.
Am I forgetting some evidence?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Washington: RG3
StL: Cornerback Janoris Jenkins, defensive tackle Michael Brockers, running back Zac Stacy, wide receiver Stedman Bailey, offensive tackle Greg Robinson and linebacker Alec Ogletree
Yeah, I'd say StLouis won that trade.
[this includes StL trading the 2013 first acquired in this trade to ATL on draft day in 2013 for 3 picks. ATL moved up for Trufant.]
Washington: RG3
StL: Cornerback Janoris Jenkins, defensive tackle Michael Brockers, running back Zac Stacy, wide receiver Stedman Bailey, offensive tackle Greg Robinson and linebacker Alec Ogletree
Yeah, I'd say StLouis won that trade.
[this includes StL trading the 2013 first acquired in this trade to ATL on draft day in 2013 for 3 picks. ATL moved up for Trufant.]
There's no doubt that will go down as one of the worst draft day trades in history. Maybe only the Hershel Walker trade tops it.
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Washington: RG3
StL: Cornerback Janoris Jenkins, defensive tackle Michael Brockers, running back Zac Stacy, wide receiver Stedman Bailey, offensive tackle Greg Robinson and linebacker Alec Ogletree
Yeah, I'd say StLouis won that trade.
[this includes StL trading the 2013 first acquired in this trade to ATL on draft day in 2013 for 3 picks. ATL moved up for Trufant.]
There's no doubt that will go down as one of the worst draft day trades in history. Maybe only the Hershel Walker trade tops it.
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Washington: RG3
StL: Cornerback Janoris Jenkins, defensive tackle Michael Brockers, running back Zac Stacy, wide receiver Stedman Bailey, offensive tackle Greg Robinson and linebacker Alec Ogletree
Yeah, I'd say StLouis won that trade.
[this includes StL trading the 2013 first acquired in this trade to ATL on draft day in 2013 for 3 picks. ATL moved up for Trufant.]
There's no doubt that will go down as one of the worst draft day trades in history. Maybe only the Hershel Walker trade tops it.
There's no doubt that will go down as one of the worst draft day trades in history. Maybe only the Hershel Walker trade tops it.
Or who was given away for Ricky Williams to wed Mike Ditka? His entire draft that year methinks. That sure went up in (mj) smoke.
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Really?
Yes, really... your last couple responses have been as if I was baiting you... I'm not. My reply that prompted the above was after a reread of your post. I do not know how else to interpret this part:
Furthermore, many of the offensive guys trying to make this roster from the 3rd and 4th strings include many undrafted rookies. They not only had to know our playbook but they also had to recognize the defense and adjust appropriately... WRs also have to know how to adjust their routes accordingly and be on the same page with their 22 year old QB.
To me, this looked better than it did last year with Manziel in there.
And, again, I still agree with last line.
However, it would surprise me if option routes were being run by Wynn and Jennings. I can't recall seeing evidence of option routes at all this pre-season, i.e., times when the ball is thrown to an empty area followed by the WR and QB staring at each other. I can recall sight adjustments, e.g., a quick slant to Benji, a couple bubble screens to Hawk, but they are 1's... and those are sight adjustments.
Am I forgetting some evidence?
Yes, really... your last couple responses have been as if I was baiting you... I'm not. My reply that prompted the above was after a reread of your post. I do not know how else to interpret this part:
And, again, I still agree with last line.
However, it would surprise me if option routes were being run by Wynn and Jennings. I can't recall seeing evidence of option routes at all this pre-season, i.e., times when the ball is thrown to an empty area followed by the WR and QB staring at each other. I can recall sight adjustments, e.g., a quick slant to Benji, a couple bubble screens to Hawk, but they are 1's... and those are sight adjustments.
Am I forgetting some evidence?
Well, you have to ask yourself how often this preseason, or any preseason for that matter, we had an announcer (Gruden) saying the opponent is now blitzing us on virtually every play at 1 point. I don't ever like to use "option routes" when I'm talking about inexperienced players adjusting to the blitz. I prefer blitz adjustment (or as you said sight adjustment) anticipating the coverage leverage (inside vrs outside) and re-routing in accordance. Quick slants or out routes can work just fine. You can also audible to a 7 or 9 route or whatever you have in your passing route tree that'll work. Veterans are the type of guys that can sit down in a vacated zone or find a tendency on film which way a DC likes to rotate/roll his coverages when blitzing so he can backdoor it. For example, the first time I ever noticed Benjamin could sit down in a vacated zone vrs a zone blitz was when we played Horton's D in Nashville. That was an example of an option route and it required experience beyond his 1st or 2nd season. I suppose it can be done by wide eyed rookies but not as early as the 2nd preseason game. I don't even know if they game plan tendencies or watch film of opponents in preseason.
Manziel was getting the ball out of his hands quickly and he seemed to be on the same page with his receivers and TE late in the game. The pass protection wasn't bad at times either. Maybe you're right and there wasn't any blitz adjustments late. Either way, I was very impressed with the offensive unit we watched the last 2-3 times we had the ball. I say that considering how much could have gone wrong with all the inexperience and lack of time together for any chemistry.
Now why would I want to point all this out? To tell people that playing QB for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th units isn't as easy as some were making it sound. Yes, there was no Mario Williams to worry about but it wasn't like we had Thomas, Mack, Bitonio protecting the QB either while there's a lot that can go wrong. All I wanted to do was point out that despite how much could go wrong - I was pleasantly surprised at how exciting I found that last quarter when we had the ball.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
We would have had RG3 instead of Tbitch Weeds Mingo and Gordon.praise god it wasnt us.......cause it almost was.......
whew!!!
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We would have had RG3 instead of Tbitch Weeds Mingo and Gordon.
Mingo is still a decent LB [we'll see about the pass rush this year] and Gordon has a chance to be great next year.. as for RG3, he'll lose the job midseason - or whenever his vag starts hurting, whichever comes first.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
We would have had RG3 instead of Tbitch Weeds Mingo and Gordon.
My math is a little different....based upon what Wash gave......
2012 1st & 2nd :
T. Richardson...(who was traded for JFF)
M. Schwartz
2013 1st:
Mingo
2014 1st:
Shelton
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We would have had RG3 instead of Tbitch Weeds Mingo and Gordon.
My math is a little different....based upon what Wash gave......
2012 1st & 2nd :
T. Richardson...(who was traded for JFF)
M. Schwartz
2013 1st:
Mingo
2014 1st:
Shelton
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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