Jonathan Paul Manziel
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that and a truck load of stupid self-inflicted penalties close to record setting status..
dray makes that first catch from mccown things would be MUCH different. mccown healthy and we win by 20.
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A lot of the penalties were bullshit if you ask me. Fucking refs were amateurs.
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I would also disagree that the INT was "horrible". Bad throw yes but he took a chance in 1v1 and threw it in a bad spot. Horrible Int's were the ones he threw last year-those were bush league.
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that and a truck load of stupid self-inflicted penalties close to record setting status..
dray makes that first catch from mccown things would be MUCH different. mccown healthy and we win by 20.
that and a truck load of stupid self-inflicted penalties close to record setting status..
dray makes that first catch from mccown things would be MUCH different. mccown healthy and we win by 20.
I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment... Josh looked GREAT in that opening drive and everything seemed to be clicking on offense.. I wish I could go back in time and pay one of our Oline men to trip Josh before he even tried such a stupid run!!
That was exactly what he WASN'T supposed to do! He was supposed to be the level headed journeyman that realized that an 8 minute opening drive and 3 points is a great fucking start to the game..
It all fell apart after that run. Which goes to show you how poorly coached the team was! We should have bounced back from that but we never seemed to get back into stride even after the great pitch and catch from Johnny to Benjamin for the TD.
Robert
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I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
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I would also disagree that the INT was "horrible". Bad throw yes but he took a chance in 1v1 and threw it in a bad spot. Horrible Int's were the ones he threw last year-those were bush league.
I would also disagree that the INT was "horrible". Bad throw yes but he took a chance in 1v1 and threw it in a bad spot. Horrible Int's were the ones he threw last year-those were bush league.
I see your point, but it was a bad throw AND OR a bad read by either Johnny or the Receiver.. Johnny went inside on the throw and the receiver was looking for it on the outside making for an easy Pick....
But yes, NOTHING like the ducks he was tossing up last year.. Even when he was throwing into double coverage he was putting it low and hard and only where the WR could get it, that showed a lot of growth..
Also he stood in the pocket on at least 3 occasions that I remember where it seemed like it was going to collapse but it didn't.. He showed patience in not running...
His runs seemed more deliberate after checking down 2 maybe even 3.. He just needs that last bit of patience to check down to numbers 3 and 4 solidly before bolting the pocket.
Overall not horrible.. Maybe even Ehhhh.. Possibly as good as, "wow that didn't suck".. ROFL
Robert
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I would also disagree that the INT was "horrible". Bad throw yes but he took a chance in 1v1 and threw it in a bad spot. Horrible Int's were the ones he threw last year-those were bush league.
I would also disagree that the INT was "horrible". Bad throw yes but he took a chance in 1v1 and threw it in a bad spot. Horrible Int's were the ones he threw last year-those were bush league.
If you're talking a 1on1 shot, the throw needs to be rather precise. Can't claim it isn't horrible, then say it was placed in a bad spot.
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Manziel gets the benefit of excuse after exvuse after excuse. Some guy named Tyrod Taylor QB'd a good game without the benefit of a so called top 3 OL.
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I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
I agree that JM missed the throw to hawkins, but If hawkins isn't micro sized thats a perfectly placed pass.
βIt is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.β -
I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
Yea, no doubt I am making excuses.. It's like watching a movie that just sucked beyond all belief and then they make a sequel.
For some reason you go and see the sequel and it actually is a just a tiny bit entertaining and you say "WOW, that didn't suck nearly as bad as I thought it was going to"....
This was the level I expected out of him LAST YEAR! Had he gone through this learning curve at the end of last year, instead of being a self absorbed party boy, he might have started this season as the number 1 and actually be making real progress towards being an actual NFL QB...
Instead he is a 1st year rookie again.. Good thing for him he is still so young and after this outing he has proven he at least is good enough to be a BACKUP QB in the NFL... Now we will have a few games to see if he goes anywhere with it.
Robert
I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
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I know Josh should have went down and not taken the hit on the goal line but how can you fault someone for a wrong split second decision where they are giving 100 percent effort?
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I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
I agree that JM missed the throw to hawkins, but If hawkins isn't micro sized thats a perfectly placed pass.
I agree that JM missed the throw to hawkins, but If hawkins isn't micro sized thats a perfectly placed pass.
That's true, but would still like to see him make the toss.
I mean, if you made a list of everything that was wrong with the team yesterday - QB wouldn't be #1, maybe that's progress lol.
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Yea, no doubt I am making excuses.. It's like watching a movie that just sucked beyond all belief and then they make a sequel.
For some reason you go and see the sequel and it actually is a just a tiny bit entertaining and you say "WOW, that didn't suck nearly as bad as I thought it was going to"....
This was the level I expected out of him LAST YEAR! Had he gone through this learning curve at the end of last year, instead of being a self absorbed party boy, he might have started this season as the number 1 and actually be making real progress towards being an actual NFL QB...
Instead he is a 1st year rookie again.. Good thing for him he is still so young and after this outing he has proven he at least is good enough to be a BACKUP QB in the NFL... Now we will have a few games to see if he goes anywhere with it.
Robert
I understand the excuses of "well let's see him get 1st team reps" and "and the play calling was bad." It's true pretty much the whole team was bad too...
The 10-minute sample of McCown was great. Obviously the guys not the future - and he may implode like many of his predecessors, but for winning now he's still our best bet.
To me, Manziel looked like he may be good enough to be a backup at some point. Not sure where the praise is coming from. He had some ups, but mostly downs (Yea I understand the excuses "1st team reps" and blah, but we've seen very little positive from Johnny overall).
I hope he succeeds and leads us to wins, and I will drink and cheer on every weekend. But I'm not particularly optimistic.
He was low a lot, and missed the easy toss to hawkins in the end zone. The throw to hawkins may be a tough throw for me, but for an NFL QB it should have been an easy 6.
Yea, no doubt I am making excuses.. It's like watching a movie that just sucked beyond all belief and then they make a sequel.
For some reason you go and see the sequel and it actually is a just a tiny bit entertaining and you say "WOW, that didn't suck nearly as bad as I thought it was going to"....
This was the level I expected out of him LAST YEAR! Had he gone through this learning curve at the end of last year, instead of being a self absorbed party boy, he might have started this season as the number 1 and actually be making real progress towards being an actual NFL QB...
Instead he is a 1st year rookie again.. Good thing for him he is still so young and after this outing he has proven he at least is good enough to be a BACKUP QB in the NFL... Now we will have a few games to see if he goes anywhere with it.
Robert
I thought you were a Bot.
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I know Josh should have went down and not taken the hit on the goal line but how can you fault someone for a wrong split second decision where they are giving 100 percent effort?
I know Josh should have went down and not taken the hit on the goal line but how can you fault someone for a wrong split second decision where they are giving 100 percent effort?
I want to agree with you, but I can't.. He wasn't diving for a playoff spot or the superbowl, it was the opening drive of the first game of the season.. There are a hundred reasons I just loved that he tried and all of them are emotion based reasons.
He was brought on to this team to be a game manager and to make the smart and statistically reasonable decisions.... There was no reason to try and make that TD like he did.. It was an AMAZING 1st drive of the first game of the season.. He chewed up literally 2/3rds of the first quarter with that drive and it was a chip shot 3 pointer.
Instead the whole game momentum swung and never really came back into our favor..
Robert
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I would also disagree that the INT was "horrible". Bad throw yes but he took a chance in 1v1 and threw it in a bad spot. Horrible Int's were the ones he threw last year-those were bush league.
If you're talking a 1on1 shot, the throw needs to be rather precise. Can't claim it isn't horrible, then say it was placed in a bad spot.
If you're talking a 1on1 shot, the throw needs to be rather precise. Can't claim it isn't horrible, then say it was placed in a bad spot.
I guess what I'm saying is it was a bad throw but not a bad read. Taking a chance on man coverage like that isn't a horrible decision to throw the ball, he just made a bad throw. What I consider horrible is the ones he had last year when he threw across his body into coverage-those are throws that can't ever be made.
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I know Josh should have went down and not taken the hit on the goal line but how can you fault someone for a wrong split second decision where they are giving 100 percent effort?
I want to agree with you, but I can't.. He wasn't diving for a playoff spot or the superbowl, it was the opening drive of the first game of the season.. There are a hundred reasons I just loved that he tried and all of them are emotion based reasons.
He was brought on to this team to be a game manager and to make the smart and statistically reasonable decisions.... There was no reason to try and make that TD like he did.. It was an AMAZING 1st drive of the first game of the season.. He chewed up literally 2/3rds of the first quarter with that drive and it was a chip shot 3 pointer.
Instead the whole game momentum swung and never really came back into our favor..
Robert
I want to agree with you, but I can't.. He wasn't diving for a playoff spot or the superbowl, it was the opening drive of the first game of the season.. There are a hundred reasons I just loved that he tried and all of them are emotion based reasons.
He was brought on to this team to be a game manager and to make the smart and statistically reasonable decisions.... There was no reason to try and make that TD like he did.. It was an AMAZING 1st drive of the first game of the season.. He chewed up literally 2/3rds of the first quarter with that drive and it was a chip shot 3 pointer.
Instead the whole game momentum swung and never really came back into our favor..
Robert
I understand what you are saying and not disagreeing but we are looking at this with 20/20 hindsight. What would have happened if he had scored and not got a concussion on the play? A lot of what ifs? If he took a slide on the one and we lose the game by 3 points would we look back and say "if he only had gone for the touchdown?". Logically you are right though and I know Pettine has stressed to Josh the importance of him staying healthy and not taking any unnecessary chances.
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That int was on manziel no question, that ball has to be thrown to the outside. But other than that, that was the only glaring mistake. I don't put any of those fumbles on him really, he was flushed out of a collapsing pocket and got the ball stripped/knocked by a convergence of 300lb men. There was really only one other pass that was an inc that he really threw behind a crossing route, and not by much either. He didn't look bad, not great, but if he plays like that we have at least chance in a lot of games.
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That int was on manziel no question, that ball has to be thrown to the outside. But other than that, that was the only glaring mistake. I don't put any of those fumbles on him really, he was flushed out of a collapsing pocket and got the ball stripped/knocked by a convergence of 300lb men. There was really only one other pass that was an inc that he really threw behind a crossing route, and not by much either. He didn't look bad, not great, but if he plays like that we have at least chance in a lot of games.
That int was on manziel no question, that ball has to be thrown to the outside. But other than that, that was the only glaring mistake. I don't put any of those fumbles on him really, he was flushed out of a collapsing pocket and got the ball stripped/knocked by a convergence of 300lb men. There was really only one other pass that was an inc that he really threw behind a crossing route, and not by much either. He didn't look bad, not great, but if he plays like that we have at least chance in a lot of games.
He certainly would have started over Hoyer this year.
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They tried that in Cincinnati, changing the entire scheme when Johnny came in. I'd like to see him play in the scheme that everyone has been running all through practice and once in a while throw a curve ball into the mix.
WSS
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Johnny didn't look as bad as last year, but he still looked bad.
He made a couple nice throws and some nice scrambles, but when you're holding on to the ball past 3 seconds you're just begging to get your linemen called for holding.
Another thing is, you can't blame the online when Johnny is carrying the ball one handed like a loaf of bread, that's just begging to get stripped. He's got to learn to protect the ball better, hell man one of those fumbles was from Johnny running into his own guy.
He's either not seeing the field or he just can't read the field. He looked like a rookie qb, like what he should have looked like last year.
Maybe at this rate he'll be ready to start when he's 30.
He's got a lot of work to do.
3 seasons until our new head coach, let's hope they get it right this time.
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