My Take from Game 1
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Some tweets from @dan_labbe today show the isses you have as team when Johnny is your QB. This stuff is in Johnny's DNA, he's never going to change.
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I think the first turnover was a total killer. 90-yard 10 minute drive only to lose the ball (and starting QB). The fumbled interception another killer that they scored after, and the third one was a bad decision by johnny early in the 3rd quarter, when we were still in the ball game (probably the last nail).
I disagreed with many holding calls, holding happens on every play so unless the arms are extended I don't think a flag should be thrown.
Johnny played better in the first half. He was calmer, less happy feet. But there was plenty of bad (that you may make excuses for, but lets assume we aren't). Missing the wide open touch down pass in the red zone (to a short Andrew Hawkins, which doesn't help) is a play I think he should have made - I think in the same situation, same play call McCown gets the touch down there.
Many times he held the ball too long, more so in the 2nd half he got back to panicking after the 1st and 1/2 reads weren't there (even though he had time), sometimes he was entirely unaware in the pocket, and many times he'd chuck 100% with his arm instead of stepping into the throw when there wasn't significant pressure.
You can make the excuse of lack of reps, rest of the team sucked (they did, and probably quit), but regardless McCown will surely get the nod if he gets cleared this week.
I don't think we should even really be talking about the refs though:
- We couldn't have had a worse running game. Who's to blame? Probably a lot of people.
- Our defense got bullied and embarassed by Chris Ivory. How many other defenses does Chris Ivory bully and embarass? Not that many.
- Brandon Marshall seemed to be Fitz's favorite target, and Haden couldn't keep up.
- Donte Whitner was a non-factor, more of missed tackles, hesitation, and missed assignments. I still miss TJ Ward.
- The one catch on the sidelines that put the jets in or near the red zone, to Marshall. It was not a catch as Marshall bobbled it out of bounds, mistake by Pettine not to throw the flag.
- The first drive of the game was pretty much the McCown show. He did an excellent job, and is by far the biggest reason the offense had success at all on that drive. I'm sure it's not easy, with everybody dropping passes and the running game not working - but McCown made it work, which is nice. I appreciate the effort to get the TD after the long, 10 minute drive - because driving for 10 minutes and scoring 7 in the 1st Q would have set the tone, but the mistake - very browns-like - nullified everything good about that drive.
- The catch by hartline on his knees, one arm across his body - has to be one of the best plays all week.
Anyway, we'll see what happens next week. Hopefully it looks better.
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I will be interested to see tour's analysis of line play the second half compared to the first. It was my impression they were collapsing much faster, thus forcing a lot more running from JM. Also it did not seem our receivers were separating very well either compared to the first half.
For a "running team" we absolutely sucked and presented no threat at all.
I will be interested to see tour's analysis of line play the second half compared to the first. It was my impression they were collapsing much faster, thus forcing a lot more running from JM. Also it did not seem our receivers were separating very well either compared to the first half.
For a "running team" we absolutely sucked and presented no threat at all.
The pass pro was fine throughout the game. Johnny took off too soon ALOT. I am pissed about the run blocking too though.
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Since bottlegate, the refs have hated the Browns:
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Maybe it was the bright orange pants... got the refs attention... Just my theory...
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I think the first turnover was a total killer. 90-yard 10 minute drive only to lose the ball (and starting QB). The fumbled interception another killer that they scored after, and the third one was a bad decision by johnny early in the 3rd quarter, when we were still in the ball game (probably the last nail).
I disagreed with many holding calls, holding happens on every play so unless the arms are extended I don't think a flag should be thrown.
Johnny played better in the first half. He was calmer, less happy feet. But there was plenty of bad (that you may make excuses for, but lets assume we aren't). Missing the wide open touch down pass in the red zone (to a short Andrew Hawkins, which doesn't help) is a play I think he should have made - I think in the same situation, same play call McCown gets the touch down there.
Many times he held the ball too long, more so in the 2nd half he got back to panicking after the 1st and 1/2 reads weren't there (even though he had time), sometimes he was entirely unaware in the pocket, and many times he'd chuck 100% with his arm instead of stepping into the throw when there wasn't significant pressure.
You can make the excuse of lack of reps, rest of the team sucked (they did, and probably quit), but regardless McCown will surely get the nod if he gets cleared this week.
I don't think we should even really be talking about the refs though:
- We couldn't have had a worse running game. Who's to blame? Probably a lot of people.
- Our defense got bullied and embarassed by Chris Ivory. How many other defenses does Chris Ivory bully and embarass? Not that many.
- Brandon Marshall seemed to be Fitz's favorite target, and Haden couldn't keep up.
- Donte Whitner was a non-factor, more of missed tackles, hesitation, and missed assignments. I still miss TJ Ward.
- The one catch on the sidelines that put the jets in or near the red zone, to Marshall. It was not a catch as Marshall bobbled it out of bounds, mistake by Pettine not to throw the flag.
- The first drive of the game was pretty much the McCown show. He did an excellent job, and is by far the biggest reason the offense had success at all on that drive. I'm sure it's not easy, with everybody dropping passes and the running game not working - but McCown made it work, which is nice. I appreciate the effort to get the TD after the long, 10 minute drive - because driving for 10 minutes and scoring 7 in the 1st Q would have set the tone, but the mistake - very browns-like - nullified everything good about that drive.
- The catch by hartline on his knees, one arm across his body - has to be one of the best plays all week.
Anyway, we'll see what happens next week. Hopefully it looks better.
Missing the wide open touch down pass in the red zone (to a short Andrew Hawkins, which doesn't help) is a play I think he should have made - I think in the same situation, same play call McCown gets the touch down there.
i think in the same situation again, same play call Johnny gets the touchdown there. Mike Evans woulda caught that ball. not making excuses but McCown is in his 12th season and Johnny just turned 22. just my opinion but i bet he's gonna factor receiver's height into the equation moving forward.
good points otherwise and i agree with your takes on their performance.
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I will be interested to see tour's analysis of line play the second half compared to the first. It was my impression they were collapsing much faster, thus forcing a lot more running from JM. Also it did not seem our receivers were separating very well either compared to the first half.
For a "running team" we absolutely sucked and presented no threat at all.
The pass pro was fine throughout the game. Johnny took off too soon ALOT. I am pissed about the run blocking too though.
the pass pro wasn't anywhere near a shining moment. it was more like acne, boils, and warts on the elephant man. as Garcia said, the lesser of two evils is still an evil.The pass pro was fine throughout the game. Johnny took off too soon ALOT. I am pissed about the run blocking too though.
rewatch it. wanna see stellar pass pro? key in on the Jets OL yesterday.
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Who can argue with such phenomenal analysis
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I didn't see the whole game, just highlights, BUT
It seems that the whole game changed when McCown goes down. From 7-0 up to 0-0 and no starting qb is a huge mental hurdle for a team to overcome, especially including all the drama surrounding the backup qb...
If McCown gets down after getting the first down, then the guys get a td,, the whole game is different. Then the interception-turned-fumble just added to it, and things just snowballed.
On holding... yes, holds occur every play. Since 1978 O-line have been permitted to place their open hands on defenders, it's been a fact of NFL life. But the principles that separate the calls from non-calls are pretty simple: position, duration and effect.
- If you grab the outside of your opponent's frame... you are more likely to be flagged.
- If you pull an opponent to either yourself or the ground... you get flagged.
- If you prevent an opponent from disengaging from you... you get flagged.
It's the last one that bites teams with scrambling QBs. When latched onto an opponent trying his damned best to rush through you, it is unnatural to "give up" control when he suddenly tries to pull away from you.
On the Hartline catch... can we agree that the pass was not intended for him, but rather it was an overthrow of (I believe) a TE about 10-yards upfield?
It seems that the whole game changed when McCown goes down. From 7-0 up to 0-0 and no starting qb is a huge mental hurdle for a team to overcome, especially including all the drama surrounding the backup qb...
Could be that we are underestimating the early loss of an acknowledged team leader. But we did not collapse, rather we were ground down.
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On holding... yes, holds occur every play. Since 1978 O-line have been permitted to place their open hands on defenders, it's been a fact of NFL life. But the principles that separate the calls from non-calls are pretty simple: position, duration and effect.
- If you grab the outside of your opponent's frame... you are more likely to be flagged.
- If you pull an opponent to either yourself or the ground... you get flagged.
- If you prevent an opponent from disengaging from you... you get flagged.
It's the last one that bites teams with scrambling QBs. When latched onto an opponent trying his damned best to rush through you, it is unnatural to "give up" control when he suddenly tries to pull away from you.___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Good point Tour and explains why an O line would be making a big adjustment from a qb like McCown to a scrambler like Manziel.
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Am I the only person asking for a helmet hit on McCowan? Clearly leading with the head on the tackle. Not saying it was dirty - but why wasn't it a penalty? I expect any helemt to helmet hit on a QB to be a flag. What am I missing?
Once he tucks and runs he becomes a ball carrier, not subject to the QB protections.
Once he tucks and runs he becomes a ball carrier, not subject to the QB protections.
Neither McCown or Manziel "tucks" the ball, they carry it like a loaf of bread. You can't be that careless with the football, that's one of the main reasons why we lost.
The other main reason IMHO is sub par LB play. Nobody out on the edge to make a tackle.
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VesnaKociper said:
My take is the same as it has been since 1999, and despite all this goofy horse-shit analysis by all you "experts"
- The LBs and DBs aren't covering the corners
- If (this) didn't happen, and (that) didn't happen, and if we just made (that play) we have a chance to win that game
- We need more Offensive Linemen
Man, it's ALL the same fucking nonsense with you dick-heads year in and year out.
No QB - No TDs, a defense that gets exhausted, injured and demoralized
No WRs - No TDs, a defense and OL that gets exhausted, injured and demoralized
No RB's - Dito
Weak TE's - Ditto
The Browns consistently have some of the worse talent at the positions that matter most, and asshole fans waste time every year analyzing all this bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with why the Browns suck cow cocks.
If I owned the Browns I would trade the entire team for offensive linemen. Holy shit, you ass-clowns would cum in your pants, you would be so happy.
When will Manziel be ready? LMAO.
man we need to replace greco. OL first pick next year......
if we do that i'm moving in with you. hope there's enough room in the basement. wait..do trailers come with basements nowadays?
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VesnaKociper said:
My take is the same as it has been since 1999, and despite all this goofy horse-shit analysis by all you "experts"
- The LBs and DBs aren't covering the corners
- If (this) didn't happen, and (that) didn't happen, and if we just made (that play) we have a chance to win that game
- We need more Offensive Linemen
Man, it's ALL the same fucking nonsense with you dick-heads year in and year out.
No QB - No TDs, a defense that gets exhausted, injured and demoralized
No WRs - No TDs, a defense and OL that gets exhausted, injured and demoralized
No RB's - Dito
Weak TE's - Ditto
The Browns consistently have some of the worse talent at the positions that matter most, and asshole fans waste time every year analyzing all this bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with why the Browns suck cow cocks.
If I owned the Browns I would trade the entire team for offensive linemen. Holy shit, you ass-clowns would cum in your pants, you would be so happy.
When will Manziel be ready? LMAO.
man we need to replace greco. OL first pick next year......
if we do that i'm moving in with you. hope there's enough room in the basement. wait..do trailers come with basements nowadays?
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VesnaKociper said:
My take is the same as it has been since 1999, and despite all this goofy horse-shit analysis by all you "experts"
- The LBs and DBs aren't covering the corners
- If (this) didn't happen, and (that) didn't happen, and if we just made (that play) we have a chance to win that game
- We need more Offensive Linemen
Man, it's ALL the same fucking nonsense with you dick-heads year in and year out.
No QB - No TDs, a defense that gets exhausted, injured and demoralized
No WRs - No TDs, a defense and OL that gets exhausted, injured and demoralized
No RB's - Dito
Weak TE's - Ditto
The Browns consistently have some of the worse talent at the positions that matter most, and asshole fans waste time every year analyzing all this bullshit that has absolutely nothing to do with why the Browns suck cow cocks.
If I owned the Browns I would trade the entire team for offensive linemen. Holy shit, you ass-clowns would cum in your pants, you would be so happy.
When will Manziel be ready? LMAO.
man we need to replace greco. OL first pick next year......
if we do that i'm moving in with you. hope there's enough room in the basement. wait..do trailers come with basements nowadays?
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