Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Shocker here we are page 4(nailed it) of 72. Yes Drew Brees and R. Wilson have proven one thing that JM can't prove yet but don't give up hope with him now serious about NFL football. It's called passing windows between the lineman that a short QB must learn to get threw the window with accuracy on the pass to his receiver to make a short QB a good Pocket passer in this league. Watch Brees. see ya next chapter. It's not easy and time will tell..
Perhaps its also worth noting that another reason Breesy and Wilson can play from the pocket and utilize these windows is that they have a nice, high release. Very prototypical of an NFL QB. Johnny's is a 3/4 and that makes a TON of difference.
Perhaps its also worth noting that another reason Breesy and Wilson can play from the pocket and utilize these windows is that they have a nice, high release. Very prototypical of an NFL QB. Johnny's is a 3/4 and that makes a TON of difference.
In batted balls? Yes... In vision? No...
Hey guys havent posten in a while.
Yeah... What's up with that?
I dunno, guys... watching the tape and I'm getting depressed.
About the line...
About our backs...
Even about our lil' QB... not seeing the progress I thought I saw in the game. Here are two plays...
The TD Pass...
I originally thought it was a great read of a WR even with a DB ("If you're even, you're open") and a better throw to the outside that redirected a WR who was drifting towards the single-high Safety closing from the middle.
After further review I see a "WTF-an-INT-is-as-good-as-a-punt" throw on 3rd and 19. Crowmartie was tight to the line, but rather than press he almost immediately turned and ran two-yards in front of Benji matching him stride for stride for 10 yards. That's where he was as JM began his throw.
Crom was actually looking at JM as the throw began and slowed. Why? Don't know for sure... playing for the back shoulder? Expecting inside help? Forgot the down and distance? All? Regardless JM's shoulder angle said anything but "here come a hard low throw". What I do know is that there was no way to anticipate Crom slowing.
When Crom slowed, Benji broke to the inside making the outside the wrong side. Doesn't make it a bad play... it was 3rd and 19 after all... just does not make it the great play that I thought I saw originally.
The missed, 2Q, TD passes... yes, passes...
We all know about missing Hawk wide to the left after being flushed left out of the pocket. That was on 2nd and goal from the 5. As executed the pass was wide left and drew Hawk OB. It did not need to be quite so wide, but it did get easier the wider it was thrown so the conservatism is understandable and appreciated.
What bothered me more upon review is that the pass was thrown from 10-yds behind the line. The more JM presses the line, putting the lone DB between he and Hawk in a run-pass quandary, the easier the pass becomes. This would seem to be the type of opportunity JFF would immediately recognize and grasp.
Next came a delay of game... a time out might have been advisable, but set that aside for now.
On third and goal from the 10 JM missed a fade set up with Benji on Buster. The throw to the back pylon was there and JM did not pull the trigger. Positives of the play was JM had stared the Safety into being a statue in the middle prior to coming off him, and JM was stepping up and left away from minor, but real, pressure. As he stepped up Benji was one step from the CB, who was still squatted facing JM.
There was a sight/throwing lane and JM moved into it so I've no question the read could have been made. It was literally a split-second read, but one a good NFL QB must make. Especially since a throw to the pylon gave only a Benji a chance to catch the ball.JM's just not up to that speed. Instead JM bailed with zero chance to score and gained 3 yards.
JM made other good throws and varied throws. From a sweet, Q2 swing pass to Benji on Flip's best designed play of the game to a 3rd and 8, rifle shot to Hart in Q3 through a 5-yd wide throwing lane. Both were clearly first reads.
Still have a qtr-and-a-half to go...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We all know there are many TV analysts that just hate Johnny - some for good reason, others, like dickbag Merrill Hoge, for who-knows-why.
Ron Jawarski has always been pretty critical. This morning on Mike n Mike, he said he liked what he saw, for the most part, from Johnny. This gave me some hope, and remembering it is his 4th NFL game, is refreshing to hear from someone who really knows the position.
If he just continues to improve, and gets rid of the huge mistake plays, there is hope.
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We all know there are many TV analysts that just hate Johnny - some for good reason, others, like dickbag Merrill Hoge, for who-knows-why.
Ron Jawarski has always been pretty critical. This morning on Mike n Mike, he said he liked what he saw, for the most part, from Johnny. This gave me some hope, and remembering it is his 4th NFL game, is refreshing to hear from someone who really knows the position.
If he just continues to improve, and gets rid of the huge mistake plays, there is hope.
We all know there are many TV analysts that just hate Johnny - some for good reason, others, like dickbag Merrill Hoge, for who-knows-why.
Ron Jawarski has always been pretty critical. This morning on Mike n Mike, he said he liked what he saw, for the most part, from Johnny. This gave me some hope, and remembering it is his 4th NFL game, is refreshing to hear from someone who really knows the position.
If he just continues to improve, and gets rid of the huge mistake plays, there is hope.
Yes, you keep believing that.
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We all know there are many TV analysts that just hate Johnny - some for good reason, others, like dickbag Merrill Hoge, for who-knows-why.
Ron Jawarski has always been pretty critical. This morning on Mike n Mike, he said he liked what he saw, for the most part, from Johnny. This gave me some hope, and remembering it is his 4th NFL game, is refreshing to hear from someone who really knows the position.
If he just continues to improve, and gets rid of the huge mistake plays, there is hope.
Yes, you keep believing that.
Yes, you keep believing that.
Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Keep being an internet cool guy, though, with your one line sarcasms that add nothing to the discussion.
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Perhaps its also worth noting that another reason Breesy and Wilson can play from the pocket and utilize these windows is that they have a nice, high release. Very prototypical of an NFL QB. Johnny's is a 3/4 and that makes a TON of difference.
In batted balls? Yes... In vision? No...
Hey guys havent posten in a while.
Yeah... What's up with that?
I dunno, guys... watching the tape and I'm getting depressed.
About the line...
About our backs...
Even about our lil' QB... not seeing the progress I thought I saw in the game. Here are two plays...
The TD Pass...
I originally thought it was a great read of a WR even with a DB ("If you're even, you're open") and a better throw to the outside that redirected a WR who was drifting towards the single-high Safety closing from the middle.
After further review I see a "WTF-an-INT-is-as-good-as-a-punt" throw on 3rd and 19. Crowmartie was tight to the line, but rather than press he almost immediately turned and ran two-yards in front of Benji matching him stride for stride for 10 yards. That's where he was as JM began his throw.
Crom was actually looking at JM as the throw began and slowed. Why? Don't know for sure... playing for the back shoulder? Expecting inside help? Forgot the down and distance? All? Regardless JM's shoulder angle said anything but "here come a hard low throw". What I do know is that there was no way to anticipate Crom slowing.
When Crom slowed, Benji broke to the inside making the outside the wrong side. Doesn't make it a bad play... it was 3rd and 19 after all... just does not make it the great play that I thought I saw originally.
The missed, 2Q, TD passes... yes, passes...
We all know about missing Hawk wide to the left after being flushed left out of the pocket. That was on 2nd and goal from the 5. As executed the pass was wide left and drew Hawk OB. It did not need to be quite so wide, but it did get easier the wider it was thrown so the conservatism is understandable and appreciated.
What bothered me more upon review is that the pass was thrown from 10-yds behind the line. The more JM presses the line, putting the lone DB between he and Hawk in a run-pass quandary, the easier the pass becomes. This would seem to be the type of opportunity JFF would immediately recognize and grasp.
Next came a delay of game... a time out might have been advisable, but set that aside for now.
On third and goal from the 10 JM missed a fade set up with Benji on Buster. The throw to the back pylon was there and JM did not pull the trigger. Positives of the play was JM had stared the Safety into being a statue in the middle prior to coming off him, and JM was stepping up and left away from minor, but real, pressure. As he stepped up Benji was one step from the CB, who was still squatted facing JM.
There was a sight/throwing lane and JM moved into it so I've no question the read could have been made. It was literally a split-second read, but one a good NFL QB must make. Especially since a throw to the pylon gave only a Benji a chance to catch the ball.JM's just not up to that speed. Instead JM bailed with zero chance to score and gained 3 yards.
JM made other good throws and varied throws. From a sweet, Q2 swing pass to Benji on Flip's best designed play of the game to a 3rd and 8, rifle shot to Hart in Q3 through a 5-yd wide throwing lane. Both were clearly first reads.
Still have a qtr-and-a-half to go...
The TD Pass...
I originally thought it was a great read of a WR even with a DB ("If you're even, you're open") and a better throw to the outside that redirected a WR who was drifting towards the single-high Safety closing from the middle.
After further review I see a "WTF-an-INT-is-as-good-as-a-punt" throw on 3rd and 19. Crowmartie was tight to the line, but rather than press he almost immediately turned and ran two-yards in front of Benji matching him stride for stride for 10 yards. That's where he was as JM began his throw.
Crom was actually looking at JM as the throw began and slowed. Why? Don't know for sure... playing for the back shoulder? Expecting inside help? Forgot the down and distance? All? Regardless JM's shoulder angle said anything but "here come a hard low throw". What I do know is that there was no way to anticipate Crom slowing.
When Crom slowed, Benji broke to the inside making the outside the wrong side. Doesn't make it a bad play... it was 3rd and 19 after all... just does not make it the great play that I thought I saw originally.
It's incredible how many different ways one play can be looked at, depending on agenda.
Bill "qb guru" O'Brien just said starting Hoyer was mistake, FYI.
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Where was that? I saw Hoyer was expected to start.
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Yes, you keep believing that.
Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Keep being an internet cool guy, though, with your one line sarcasms that add nothing to the discussion.
Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Yes, I do. He is not the most reliable guy out there and why should i take his advice.
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Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Yes, I do. He is not the most reliable guy out there and why should i take his advice.
Yes, I do. He is not the most reliable guy out there and why should i take his advice.
This is where I love to remind folks that Jaws was the same dude who said Brandon Weeden would be a "rock solid starter" to back you up.
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Yes, I do. He is not the most reliable guy out there and why should i take his advice.
This is where I love to remind folks that Jaws was the same dude who said Brandon Weeden would be a "rock solid starter" to back you up.
This is where I love to remind folks that Jaws was the same dude who said Brandon Weeden would be a "rock solid starter" to back you up.
He is just another one of those ESPN guys that loves to hear himself talk. Frankly, I don't care much for any of them.
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Perhaps its also worth noting that another reason Breesy and Wilson can play from the pocket and utilize these windows is that they have a nice, high release. Very prototypical of an NFL QB. Johnny's is a 3/4 and that makes a TON of difference.
In batted balls? Yes... In vision? No...
Hey guys havent posten in a while.
Yeah... What's up with that?
I dunno, guys... watching the tape and I'm getting depressed.
About the line...
About our backs...
Even about our lil' QB... not seeing the progress I thought I saw in the game. Here are two plays...
The TD Pass...
I originally thought it was a great read of a WR even with a DB ("If you're even, you're open") and a better throw to the outside that redirected a WR who was drifting towards the single-high Safety closing from the middle.
After further review I see a "WTF-an-INT-is-as-good-as-a-punt" throw on 3rd and 19. Crowmartie was tight to the line, but rather than press he almost immediately turned and ran two-yards in front of Benji matching him stride for stride for 10 yards. That's where he was as JM began his throw.
Crom was actually looking at JM as the throw began and slowed. Why? Don't know for sure... playing for the back shoulder? Expecting inside help? Forgot the down and distance? All? Regardless JM's shoulder angle said anything but "here come a hard low throw". What I do know is that there was no way to anticipate Crom slowing.
When Crom slowed, Benji broke to the inside making the outside the wrong side. Doesn't make it a bad play... it was 3rd and 19 after all... just does not make it the great play that I thought I saw originally.
The missed, 2Q, TD passes... yes, passes...
We all know about missing Hawk wide to the left after being flushed left out of the pocket. That was on 2nd and goal from the 5. As executed the pass was wide left and drew Hawk OB. It did not need to be quite so wide, but it did get easier the wider it was thrown so the conservatism is understandable and appreciated.
What bothered me more upon review is that the pass was thrown from 10-yds behind the line. The more JM presses the line, putting the lone DB between he and Hawk in a run-pass quandary, the easier the pass becomes. This would seem to be the type of opportunity JFF would immediately recognize and grasp.
Next came a delay of game... a time out might have been advisable, but set that aside for now.
On third and goal from the 10 JM missed a fade set up with Benji on Buster. The throw to the back pylon was there and JM did not pull the trigger. Positives of the play was JM had stared the Safety into being a statue in the middle prior to coming off him, and JM was stepping up and left away from minor, but real, pressure. As he stepped up Benji was one step from the CB, who was still squatted facing JM.
There was a sight/throwing lane and JM moved into it so I've no question the read could have been made. It was literally a split-second read, but one a good NFL QB must make. Especially since a throw to the pylon gave only a Benji a chance to catch the ball.JM's just not up to that speed. Instead JM bailed with zero chance to score and gained 3 yards.
JM made other good throws and varied throws. From a sweet, Q2 swing pass to Benji on Flip's best designed play of the game to a 3rd and 8, rifle shot to Hart in Q3 through a 5-yd wide throwing lane. Both were clearly first reads.
Still have a qtr-and-a-half to go...
Yeah... What's up with that?
Exited the miltary after 7 years. Moved to NY. Finishing up a bachelors. Things happnin. Ill be around to watch the game this weekend. You cant find it at the bars out here. Giants or GTFO... lol
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Larry.. He struggles to see over his line.. I'm just not buying it with this kid..He's not even calculating like a Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers (players with a chess board mentality).. I'm just not seeing it from him.
LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters? You do know Brees is now 36 years old, right? And why does the shorter Brees see over the lines better than the 1 inch taller JM? Sorry, not buying any of your logic on JM. He's a rookie with last year as given trash. You expect a 28-30 year old player out of a 22 year old. Not gonna happen overnight. Growing pains for a fan base extremely short on patience (understandably so). But JM is NOT responsible for all that has happened since the Browns came back home. He IS responsible for last year and all indications are he is not only owning up to it, but trying his best to become an asset to Cleveland. Start trying to find what he does right and how he improves from week to week.
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
Brees didn't sit the bench long in San Diego, was all-pro by his third year and it was a shoulder injury that lead to him being traded to N.O.LOL! And how long did Brees and Rodgers sit on the bench before they became starters?
There is a reason the term Monday morning quarterbacking came into being.
Aaron Rodgers sat behind a Hall of Famer before he started. There's a difference between sitting behind Brett Favre vs sitting behind Hoyer and "Helicopter" McCown.
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Yes, you keep believing that.
Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Keep being an internet cool guy, though, with your one line sarcasms that add nothing to the discussion.
Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Keep being an internet cool guy, though, with your one line sarcasms that add nothing to the discussion.
Also, if you want to prove your intelligence over me by writing a book, feel free. I will continue with my one liners.
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Umm, it's not just me. That's the point.
Do you think Jawarski would say he was encouraged by some of the things Johnny did if there were no hope at all? No, he would say there's no hope at all.
Yes, I do. He is not the most reliable guy out there and why should i take his advice.
Yes, I do. He is not the most reliable guy out there and why should i take his advice.
Dawg2, I agree with this comment. I still choose to hold out hope that Jaws knows what he's talking about in this instance, but he has said some dumb things before. Again, johnny's only really played 9 quarters of NFL football. Maybe a liitle more time is warranted before we bury Johnny.
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Jaws is the guy who said Manziel wouldn't be drafted in the 1st 3 rounds, wouldn't be a starter, and is now commenting on his improvement?
"All in all, I saw improvement."
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/show/_/showId/mikeandmike/postId/13675762/video-highlights
This is the same guy who all the people that were against drafting Manziel were honking because of his negativity about the kid. Now he notes that he has seen improvement, and yet those same people are saying it isn't happening.
Full-on weird stuff happening. Larry/Hoorta is a lot smarter than I thought, because even though he was against the pick, he's not denying what is happening because of his ego. Can't believe I just wrote that.
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The TD Pass...
I originally thought it was a great read of a WR even with a DB ("If you're even, you're open") and a better throw to the outside that redirected a WR who was drifting towards the single-high Safety closing from the middle.
After further review I see a "WTF-an-INT-is-as-good-as-a-punt" throw on 3rd and 19. Crowmartie was tight to the line, but rather than press he almost immediately turned and ran two-yards in front of Benji matching him stride for stride for 10 yards. That's where he was as JM began his throw.
Crom was actually looking at JM as the throw began and slowed. Why? Don't know for sure... playing for the back shoulder? Expecting inside help? Forgot the down and distance? All? Regardless JM's shoulder angle said anything but "here come a hard low throw". What I do know is that there was no way to anticipate Crom slowing.
When Crom slowed, Benji broke to the inside making the outside the wrong side. Doesn't make it a bad play... it was 3rd and 19 after all... just does not make it the great play that I thought I saw originally.
It's incredible how many different ways one play can be looked at, depending on agenda.
Bill "qb guru" O'Brien just said starting Hoyer was mistake, FYI.
It's incredible how many different ways one play can be looked at, depending on agenda.
Bill "qb guru" O'Brien just said starting Hoyer was mistake, FYI.
You have an agenda???
Awesome detailed counterpoint as usual... *yawn*
Odd how googling "O'Brien Hoyer mistake" turns up no support for your claim. Regardless slug away with Bryan all you want. He was still the better choice for most of 2014. When he went south he went south quickly and I jumped off that bandwagon.
Not that you would know that as you were on your well-earned "vacation" from here...
Starting to plan your next one?
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Exited the miltary after 7 years. Moved to NY. Finishing up a bachelors. Things happnin. Ill be around to watch the game this weekend. You cant find it at the bars out here. Giants or GTFO... lol
Well, welcome home, congrats on your exit and good luck with your GI Bill aided (I assume) Bach pursuit...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"Gosh Wally, I don't think Johnny Manziel is playing Quarterback very well for the Browns, do you"
"That's right Beav. It sure is up in the air if he will be any good in the future either. I guess we just have to wait and see."
(Conversation overheard in the Cleaver household in the Cleveland suburb of Mayfield)
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"Gosh Wally, I don't think Johnny Manziel is playing Quarterback very well for the Browns, do you"
"That's right Beav. It sure is up in the air if he will be any good in the future either. I guess we just have to wait and see."
(Conversation overheard in the Cleaver household in the Cleveland suburb of Mayfield)
"Gosh Wally, I don't think Johnny Manziel is playing Quarterback very well for the Browns, do you"
"That's right Beav. It sure is up in the air if he will be any good in the future either. I guess we just have to wait and see."
(Conversation overheard in the Cleaver household in the Cleveland suburb of Mayfield)
"Eddie Haskell" ? What do you think about Johnny Football ?
"well......I THINK HE SUCKS" !
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"Gosh Wally, I don't think Johnny Manziel is playing Quarterback very well for the Browns, do you"
"That's right Beav. It sure is up in the air if he will be any good in the future either. I guess we just have to wait and see."
(Conversation overheard in the Cleaver household in the Cleveland suburb of Mayfield)
"Eddie Haskell" ? What do you think about Johnny Football ?
"well......I THINK HE SUCKS" !
"Eddie Haskell" ? What do you think about Johnny Football ?
"well......I THINK HE SUCKS" !
And that, my friend, is about the sum and substance of about 100 pages of discussion on this subject here.
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