Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Well, the Browns had 5 turnovers.....and I don't mean the cherry/blueberry type. And yes, while JFF was responsible for some of those.....we have to see how this team does without TOs....because they won't win anything with that record.
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tia,
Forget JFF.... it's now JMM... Johnny "Mindreader" Manziel...
When JMM launches the ball the D is two yards deeper than his WR yet he knows that the CB is going to pull up short on 3rd and 19...
Apparently you can make this kind of stuff up.
Also made up... "in stride"...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Nevertheless tour, it would be nice if the D lived up to the billing and not allow a go ahead score just before halftime or an answering TD after we score the first TD.
There was so much invested about our "top 5" D, that I actually began to buy it. I have significantly lowered those expectations.
Same goes for this "running team" behind our "top 5" O line. Where the hell was it?
I won't try to say JM had a good 2nd half because he didn't. But no one can tell me our D was stellar or that the OL was opening holes for the running game either. Lines win football. Ours did not.
Nevertheless tour, it would be nice if the D lived up to the billing and not allow a go ahead score just before halftime or an answering TD after we score the first TD.
There was so much invested about our "top 5" D, that I actually began to buy it. I have significantly lowered those expectations.
Same goes for this "running team" behind our "top 5" O line. Where the hell was it?
I won't try to say JM had a good 2nd half because he didn't. But no one can tell me our D was stellar or that the OL was opening holes for the running game either. Lines win football. Ours did not.
And our D was handed short fields on their own 28 and 24...
It's a team game... I get that.
I want to see a D that stuffs the run, sacks the QB and doesn't INT only to then fumble the ball right back.
I also want to see a QB that does not miss 2 TDs on the same play before settling for a FG.
But I'll settle for an absence of blaming the D for his lack of competitive control...
Deal?
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Well....here is how Johnny should view this: Mano a Mano vs. Mariota. Heisman winner vs. Heisman winner.
Well, CBS certainly got the game it wanted. Another Heisman battle. The problem is that I'm sure that this was the contest the Titans actually wanted this week. Manziel is still learning basic quarterback discipline. The Titans were awful on defense last year but Manziel has never played against a Dick Lebeau led defense. I'm sure that he will have some interesting things dialed up for him. I'm sure he'll try to flush him out of the pocket which Manziel likes to do, making him likely for the big play...or the big mistake.
Mariota can take off like Manziel...but he's shown he won't until he goes through his reads or if the pocket completely collapses. He has shown he can move with the pocket...Manziel tends to run from the pocket. Mariota should have a harder time against the Browns defense, which is much better than the Bucs. But Mariota doesn't seem to make a lot of mistakes, limiting his chances of turning the ball over. Mariota likely won't have the leading receiver on the Titans, TE Delanie Walker who still has a sprained wrist. And our best corner Jason McCourty is still out with a groin injury.
Should be fun to watch.
Well, CBS certainly got the game it wanted. Another Heisman battle. The problem is that I'm sure that this was the contest the Titans actually wanted this week. Manziel is still learning basic quarterback discipline. The Titans were awful on defense last year but Manziel has never played against a Dick Lebeau led defense. I'm sure that he will have some interesting things dialed up for him. I'm sure he'll try to flush him out of the pocket which Manziel likes to do, making him likely for the big play...or the big mistake.
Mariota can take off like Manziel...but he's shown he won't until he goes through his reads or if the pocket completely collapses. He has shown he can move with the pocket...Manziel tends to run from the pocket. Mariota should have a harder time against the Browns defense, which is much better than the Bucs. But Mariota doesn't seem to make a lot of mistakes, limiting his chances of turning the ball over. Mariota likely won't have the leading receiver on the Titans, TE Delanie Walker who still has a sprained wrist. And our best corner Jason McCourty is still out with a groin injury.
Should be fun to watch.
Mariotta is going to be welcomed to the NFL.
He will be our bitch, mark my words.
Zombo
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tia,
Forget JFF.... it's now JMM... Johnny "Mindreader" Manziel...
When JMM launches the ball the D is two yards deeper than his WR yet he knows that the CB is going to pull up short on 3rd and 19...
Apparently you can make this kind of stuff up.
Also made up... "in stride"...
After I posted and long before I had even seen that excuse I knew it was going to be used.tia,
Forget JFF.... it's now JMM... Johnny "Mindreader" Manziel...
When JMM launches the ball the D is two yards deeper than his WR yet he knows that the CB is going to pull up short on 3rd and 19...
Apparently you can make this kind of stuff up.
Also made up... "in stride"...
Now there is an incredibly small dose of truth. Bailing on coverage with 3rd and forever will tell the WR/QB to break off the route at the sticks or a shorter distance. That takes rep after rep to perfect.
However that wasn't the call here. Even if it was, I'm almost certain didn't see the safety nor try to look him off. He assumed that being in the box he would be a non factor with the go call.
That same concept bit Bridgwater in the ass Monday night. Show a single high, shift to a 2 man - you either throw at a bad read or eat the sack.
When Johnny starts his windup Benji isn't even with Crow. He was going that way the whole time.
Edit: Again, if the boundary safety even looks at Manziel instead of trying to rob the #3, he has very little ground to close on the throw.
I remember that exact same look being thrown at Manning when he was with Indy. Needless to say, Ed Reed made Peyton his bitch that game.
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Ag, that's gonna get old real fast...
Just sayin'...
OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
For the record the RB's had 46 yds on 20 carries and the QB's (excluding the call backs) had 58 yds on 8 carries. What's wrong with this picture?
OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
Thanks and my apologies in advance if you've not yet read my reply in the other thread...
Yes... for either QB to succeed a run game they can Play-Action off of is paramount.
And FWIW McCown's play-action execution was awful half-hearted stuff.
JM's was far superior including carrying out fakes after actually handing off... something fairly rare at the Pro level.
Will add that the Jets were unbelievably disciplined... against our PAP.
Crow needs holes to run through, there weren't a hell of a lot of them that I could see, but I didn't study the tapes so to speak. What do you say Tour?
Ton of "buttfor" plays...
but for one block here...
but for a wrong cut there.
Plenty of times there were no holes. More times than not it was a single OL being beaten or not fulfilling his assignment.
But there were also times when a hole was not hit. It's possible the RBs were stunned to see one.
And there were a couple times when a hand tripped or an armed tackled an RB about to reach the open field. Duke in particular went down pretty easy twice.
Bottom line: The poor run game was mostly on the O-line, but was a Team effort...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks for your appraisal Tour. Let's hope everyone on the team learned from it and changes everything for the better on Sunday. I still think this team has all the potential in the world but needs one of those breakout wins for confidence going forward. Here is an opportunity.
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Tour-no problem-see my reply other thread.
Only the thing most upsetting about the D unrelated to JM was not setting the edge against the run and our All-Pro CB being beaten like a red-headed stepchild. Both caught me totally by surprise. I still can't wrap my brain around either one of those things with our D. I suspect neither can the D players themselves.
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OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
Thanks and my apologies in advance if you've not yet read my reply in the other thread...
Yes... for either QB to succeed a run game they can Play-Action off of is paramount.
And FWIW McCown's play-action execution was awful half-hearted stuff.
JM's was far superior including carrying out fakes after actually handing off... something fairly rare at the Pro level.
Will add that the Jets were unbelievably disciplined... against our PAP.
Crow needs holes to run through, there weren't a hell of a lot of them that I could see, but I didn't study the tapes so to speak. What do you say Tour?
Ton of "buttfor" plays...
but for one block here...
but for a wrong cut there.
Plenty of times there were no holes. More times than not it was a single OL being beaten or not fulfilling his assignment.
But there were also times when a hole was not hit. It's possible the RBs were stunned to see one.
And there were a couple times when a hand tripped or an armed tackled an RB about to reach the open field. Duke in particular went down pretty easy twice.
Bottom line: The poor run game was mostly on the O-line, but was a Team effort...
Ton of "buttfor" plays...
but for one block here...
but for a wrong cut there.
Plenty of times there were no holes. More times than not it was a single OL being beaten or not fulfilling his assignment.
But there were also times when a hole was not hit. It's possible the RBs were stunned to see one.
And there were a couple times when a hand tripped or an armed tackled an RB about to reach the open field. Duke in particular went down pretty easy twice.
Bottom line: The poor run game was mostly on the O-line, but was a Team effort...
Tour your analyst has nailed it again!! Did it seem to you the timing of the backs out of sync timing any holes? I see both, But that Jets D front was just Quicker and powered our OL?
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Can't wait to see what a 'true' stud rookie QB looks like.....
Marriota is the real deal....been saying it for 2 years.
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Can't wait to see what a 'true' stud rookie QB looks like.....
Marriota is the real deal....been saying it for 2 years.
Can't wait to see what a 'true' stud rookie QB looks like.....
Marriota is the real deal....been saying it for 2 years.
Fuck you. You're just some fan of another team, not the Browns thats for dam sure.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
I will preface this with I have never been a Johnny fan, at least pre rehab. I think with a full week of prep, a game plan tailored to him and IF he protects the ball he will look better than many think. He can certainly get as much with his legs as Mariotta. He showed nice touch on that long pass to Benji last week as well.
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I hope flip does away with the pistol sets. Good lord it's painful to watch.
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Should go uptempo and use shotgun a lot where JM is comfortable... Open up with 3-4 wide a lot and then get the ground game going if we can get ahead...
If we get behind early, it'll be a long Sunday...
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Concussion protocol, just the way it goes.
I have no doubt McCown gives us the better chance to win, but the NFL doesn't mess around with any head injuries anymore.
People are overly excited for Manziel and I'm not sure why. Hopefully he tears it up and we get a W at home though. I'll probably be tailgating @ the muni lot.
People want to see how he will do in his first full game.....after a year under his belt.....after rehab.
I don't know that overly excited is the right term. (perhaps for a few Johnny fanboys).
Overly curious is more like it.
He is, after all, right now, THE starting Quarterback of the Cleveland Browns.....and we want anyone holding that position to do well.
If it were Austin Davis, I would be equally curious.
If things turn bad....we may see Ausome Austin in there, no?
I am fully not looking forward to him starting this week, tbh, if that changes anything. I have to prep myself for vile comments about him on this board, and a bunch of idiotic, ignorant comments about the Browns, Flip, Pettine, our receivers, our offensive line, our defense, and the city of Cleveland on the A&M board. I hope that, as it has this week, most of the discussion at least here is level-headed.People want to see how he will do in his first full game.....after a year under his belt.....after rehab.
I don't know that overly excited is the right term. (perhaps for a few Johnny fanboys).
Overly curious is more like it.
He is, after all, right now, THE starting Quarterback of the Cleveland Browns.....and we want anyone holding that position to do well.
If it were Austin Davis, I would be equally curious.
If things turn bad....we may see Ausome Austin in there, no?
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OK tour (and others). I'll switch to that OL. No run game. No offense. That's how it works.for running teams. You want an effective QB, then give him a running game that is a real threat. It did not show up in game 1.
Thanks and my apologies in advance if you've not yet read my reply in the other thread...
Yes... for either QB to succeed a run game they can Play-Action off of is paramount.
And FWIW McCown's play-action execution was awful half-hearted stuff.
JM's was far superior including carrying out fakes after actually handing off... something fairly rare at the Pro level.
Will add that the Jets were unbelievably disciplined... against our PAP.
Crow needs holes to run through, there weren't a hell of a lot of them that I could see, but I didn't study the tapes so to speak. What do you say Tour?
Ton of "buttfor" plays...
but for one block here...
but for a wrong cut there.
Plenty of times there were no holes. More times than not it was a single OL being beaten or not fulfilling his assignment.
But there were also times when a hole was not hit. It's possible the RBs were stunned to see one.
And there were a couple times when a hand tripped or an armed tackled an RB about to reach the open field. Duke in particular went down pretty easy twice.
Bottom line: The poor run game was mostly on the O-line, but was a Team effort...
Thanks for the analysis. Always money. I had a real feeling that he was playing about the same as he did against the Bengals last year, it's just that the team around him actually performed for him. I know most of this board isn't willing to acknowledge it, but Johnny had very little help in that Bengals game. And hey, I (and he neither) am not going to hold a grudge over it. The guys didn't respect him. He didn't earn it. It happens. That's what this offseason for Johnny fixed. So I'm not here to complain about the team and I wanna make that clear.Thanks and my apologies in advance if you've not yet read my reply in the other thread...
Yes... for either QB to succeed a run game they can Play-Action off of is paramount.
And FWIW McCown's play-action execution was awful half-hearted stuff.
JM's was far superior including carrying out fakes after actually handing off... something fairly rare at the Pro level.
Will add that the Jets were unbelievably disciplined... against our PAP.
Ton of "buttfor" plays...
but for one block here...
but for a wrong cut there.
Plenty of times there were no holes. More times than not it was a single OL being beaten or not fulfilling his assignment.
But there were also times when a hole was not hit. It's possible the RBs were stunned to see one.
And there were a couple times when a hand tripped or an armed tackled an RB about to reach the open field. Duke in particular went down pretty easy twice.
Bottom line: The poor run game was mostly on the O-line, but was a Team effort...
But the fact of the matter is PFF actually graded Johnny higher in that game than they did Shaw against the Ravens. You wouldn't know it reading the comments here. Against the Bengals, Joe was not good (you can check your own grades and confirm/deny). Additionally, our receivers dropped some critical balls. These were the guys that helped make Hoyer look solid all year so they had the ability to help make or break Johnny, IMO.
Sorry for the long preface, but I say all that to say this: Johnny played about the same last Sunday as he did in that Bengals game. He just had receivers actually making plays for him and some better protection (although still not up to this unit's standard and I think they would tell you that too). And to boot, his PFF grade was nearly identical to the Bengals game.
And about that, I am quite disappointed, but, as noted, there are a ton of reasons he could have a ton more success this week than he did last. I am an eternal optimist. And FTR, Flip was very adamant yesterday that Johnny played a lot better than he did in his starts last year so he's either just taking advantage of a narrative to instill confidence or my analysis is totally flawed.
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none of our rbs did anything impressive last week. i was screaming about crowell. for a big guy he sure goes down like a powder puff. i don't see him making it big for the browns unless he suddenly sees 'the light'. too much TR in his game for me to like.
i expect an upgrade next year in the draft....and i'm not talking about a 4th rounder.
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LOL! Send this on to Famous Jameis. He'll be happy to know he is the reason they suck.
On second thought send it to Carr, twatwater and Bortles too. They all obviously suck.
except for carr they all pretty much do suck.
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After I posted and long before I had even seen that excuse I knew it was going to be used.tia,
Forget JFF.... it's now JMM... Johnny "Mindreader" Manziel...
When JMM launches the ball the D is two yards deeper than his WR yet he knows that the CB is going to pull up short on 3rd and 19...
Apparently you can make this kind of stuff up.
Also made up... "in stride"...
Now there is an incredibly small dose of truth. Bailing on coverage with 3rd and forever will tell the WR/QB to break off the route at the sticks or a shorter distance. That takes rep after rep to perfect.
However that wasn't the call here. Even if it was, I'm almost certain didn't see the safety nor try to look him off. He assumed that being in the box he would be a non factor with the go call.
That same concept bit Bridgwater in the ass Monday night. Show a single high, shift to a 2 man - you either throw at a bad read or eat the sack.
When Johnny starts his windup Benji isn't even with Crow. He was going that way the whole time.
Edit: Again, if the boundary safety even looks at Manziel instead of trying to rob the #3, he has very little ground to close on the throw.
I remember that exact same look being thrown at Manning when he was with Indy. Needless to say, Ed Reed made Peyton his bitch that game.
When Johnny starts his windup Benji isn't even with Crow. He was going that way the whole time.
... and that's the point. Unless you're prepared for a possible negative outcome you do not make that throw to a WR trailing his cover by two-yards. But it's 3rd and 19 on your own 45, so even an INT inside the 20 is as good as a punt.
I'm happy Crom guessed wrong and we got the score, but let's at least be realistic about what happened and not involve the Psychic Hot Line...
Tour-no problem-see my reply other thread.
Only the thing most upsetting about the D unrelated to JM was not setting the edge against the run and our All-Pro CB being beaten like a red-headed stepchild. Both caught me totally by surprise. I still can't wrap my brain around either one of those things with our D. I suspect neither can the D players themselves.
You are most gracious, Sir... in kind please accept my modifications to my original post.
And D-wise we want the exact same thing...
... for many of the same reasons...
... with perhaps slightly different emphasis on some.
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Just finished O-line grades a bit ago and one of the RB conclusions I reached is that they were not patient enough Week 1. Granted they could still be waiting for a hole on some plays, and the lack of good lanes has to make them "anxious", but there were plays to be had had they been a little more patient. Duke was offender #1, but Crow was not far behind and he knows better... at least he did last year.
You glide behind a ZBS until it is time to go.... and then you plant and get gone. There's a big difference between TR's or even West's dancing and gliding like Crow did last year and Arien Foster makes a living doing.
I hope flip does away with the pistol sets. Good lord it's painful to watch.
Amen, brother tia... JM flashed real PAP skill Game 1 and two things the Pistil kills are the run game and PAP. I think we may need both.
Should go uptempo and use shotgun a lot where JM is comfortable... Open up with 3-4 wide a lot and then get the ground game going if we can get ahead...
We did not put 4 WRs on the field at the same time in Week 1. Why would we start now?
I would not start up-tempo, especially if we are on D first, but later... yeah. Whatever we can do to maximize the chances of our QB being successful... I'm for it.
Maybe even a little zone read? We are going to see some...
I am fully not looking forward to him starting this week, tbh, if that changes anything. I have to prep myself for vile comments about him on this board, and a bunch of idiotic, ignorant comments about the Browns, Flip, Pettine, our receivers, our offensive line, our defense, and the city of Cleveland on the A&M board. I hope that, as it has this week, most of the discussion at least here is level-headed.
Level-headed here or there...
In other words you have the worst of both worlds... I do not envy you. All you can do is keep it real... and you're good at doing that.
Besides... maybe it'll end up a best of both worlds week.
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