Jonathan Paul Manziel
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fuck! i got roped into helping my best friend's son move "a handful pieces of furniture". said furniture was 3 flights down from a top floor apt. dollied or carried 50 yards to his new split level condo and it turned out to be his whole basement and attic just going to his attic. in between WAS the dive bar where we used to hang out and met all these people. doors are shut. cable off. BUT ice machine worked and there just so happened to be buried booze where only someone like me could smell it out.
didn't see one second of the game except for a redzone update showing someone bum rushing mariota and stripping the ball out of his hands with less than 50 secs left.
will leave my comments until i get the rewind.
but from what i saw and hanging out with people who's team's sucked eggs........great fucking win!!!!
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Tour, crazy day and a half so I put this reply off.
Don't know how you got their grade at 3.6?
I'm surprised they're not independent as well, but as for your Olympic system, I think PFF only has three guys that look at the film, so to toss out the high and low would leave you with just one guy.
Your analysis is more in depth than mine, for now. I post on my grades thread the total grades for each player, the run blocking grade, and the pass blocking grade. Then how many positive and negative plays they had (like PFF, 0 is the most common grade). I also state how many positive and negative plays they had as a unit. I don't know if I could ever break down each play on the post. I'm already at 5+ hours per game so that would take forever for me. Looking at your post tells me I need to start counting and recording the box numbers on each play. On A&M's bye week coming up I may go ahead and grade the Browns just for fun and to see how we compare.
I know the code you posted is merely an example and I know you said you don't even look at it anymore, but I'm curious why you even did in the first place? Is there a significant effect on line grading based on the distribution of the 5 non-QB/OL players outside of when the TE or back is blocking?
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Man, when Tour's leaning more towards starting Johnny than I am I know I've become too hard on the kid. Certainly, even if Josh DOES get the nod, today gave the staff the comfort to cut Josh's leash by about 80%. Prior to these last two games I don't think they would have benched Josh until he strung together about 3 pretty bad games in a row. Basically the same as Hoyer. Now, 2 bad quarters and he's probably out (that's IF he even starts).
Some say that only leads to bad outcomes. Usually I agree, but our situation is different because Josh knows his role and doesn't have huge ambitions and Johnny is also completely trusting of the staff's decisions one way or the other (at least I think/hope so). The attitude improvement in our top two QBs from 2014 to 2015 is jaw-dropping.
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I am no JFF fanboy, I am just calling it like I see it.. McCown looked really good in that opening drive.. There is no doubt he is a leader and he was very poised and the offense seemed to respond to him.
But here is the problem and it was what I was afraid of going into this season.... He is old and I was afraid he was going to get injured.. It is a given that as a Browns QB at this point in our growth that the QB is going to get hit or he is going to have to be mobile and avoid getting hit..
Josh was Stupid/Admirable to make that run at the end zone, but he runs like a freaking Giraffe with a sprained ankle. He can cover ground pretty fast but he just look like he is one good hit away from going out of the game(and that is exactly what happened).. He was sacked or hit earlier in that drive(can't remember which) and he came up limping a bit and that got me worried.
Chances are that Josh will be out for 2 to 3 weeks if they follow most concussion protocols. He took a really good hit to the head(which should have been a penalty in my opinion regardless if he is a runner at that point)... So this means that Johnny is the man for now..
Manziel showed a lot of growth and to be honest he looked damn good in the first half and into the beginning of the second half... He stood in the pocket when he had to, and I need to say that for the first 2/3'rds of the game our OLine did a great job giving both QB's time!! But when things broke down he scrambled very well and gained two HUGE chunks of yardage. But both were called back on holding penalties that did absolutely nothing to spring him loose...
The interception was HORRIBLE and was entirely his fault...
But the play calling never changed when Josh went out and Johnny came in.. I have to say that we lost this game because the offensive play calling was fucking awful.... Run up the middle on 1st, even though it didn't work all game.. We were down by 14 point going into the 3rd and we made NO adjustments to the play calling.. 2nd and long, short dump pass and get 2 or 3.. Leaveing Johnny with 3rd and 9.. PENALTY!! Now its 3rd and 14...
By the middle of the 3rd quarter it was obvious we were desperate and yet the play calling stayed the fucking same.. This was when Johnny started to try and take it on all himself because he is not one to just lie down.. That is when he fumbled the ball when he bounced off one of our linemen and he got stripped..
I think with Johnny getting 1st team reps in practice this week, the linemen will learn to stop being an impediment to his running game.. He is MUCH faster this year and seems to have a better grasp of the team..
He will likely suck BIG TIME this year, but I see growth potential that wasn't there last year AT ALL! He looks like a rookie ready to step up as opposed to last year where he just looked like a 5 year old being chased by teen agers wanting to beat him up and take his lunch money... He is in the game now.. Only a year of 1st team reps are going to tell us whether it is worth investing any more time on him.....
Robert
He looks like a rookie ready to step up as opposed to last year where he just looked like a 5 year old being chased by teen agers wanting to beat him up and take his lunch money... He is in the game now.
I agree with this completely, you also say that Mccown looked like he had the offense running well on that first drive. Who do you start if Mccown is cleared?
I give the edge to Mccown right now, however, I think Johnny should come in later this year. I dont know exactly how to effectively groom a qb on a bench in todays NFL, though. Aaron rodgers ran the scout team offense for a while and sat behind farve a couple years. That seemed to work lol. Honestly this is a tough decision. Its obvious Manziel needs live reps to give us a clear picture of his potential, but Mccown is running a fluid offense.
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Don't know how to answer that.... Can anyone give some stats on how QB's do when they are groomed versus tossing them in and letting them learn while they play?
You threw out Rodgers.. I didn't know he sat behind Farve for a length of time.. A few others I can think of is Montana and Young...
But it seems that most great QB's(and even average QB's) have done it the hard way, and that is playing and taking the hard knocks.... After watching him in the game today, he seemed a lot more aware of taking hits.. He slid under that big hit on the slide in the first quarter...
Other than that I don't remember him taking any hits the rest of the game....
Robert
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The two fumbles seemed nearly identical, too long in the pocket without the internal clock saying, "Get ready to eat one." I'll watch the game again later today and see if that is accurate, but that was my "live" take on it. So the question is do the Browns have a "fumble play" for the OL when they get beat to the QB?
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I really don't see how you can bench Johnny now? It would be a huge blow to his confidence if they did.
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He's the backup? Apart from a couple of long heave TD passes (where Benjamin was wide open), he was, what, 6-13 for about 70 yards and a couple of fumbles (again)? He had a nice game in parts, but he's got a long way to go before he's a starting quality quarterback in this league.
That being said he definitely showed his potential, his ability to make lemonade when the play breaks down, and that given time he could be the guy for us. I'm not saying definitely don't start him, I'm just saying the completing 8 passes doesn't make you the saviour.
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When you don't have time to set up because the offensive line is losing I'd say that was the problem. Brian Bitonio got his ass handed to him all game. Mack was also not looking good.
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I'm waiting for Tour's analysis but Mack was suspect today. Apart from a couple of penalties, Bitonio looked good. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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I really don't see how you can bench Johnny now? It would be a huge blow to his confidence if they did.
That's how I see it. And I like Josh McCown but there's no doubt as to why he was brought in. If your first round quarterback is the guy of the future he has to start playing sometime. Did Carr or Bortles or Bilgewater sit on the bench and learn?I really don't see how you can bench Johnny now? It would be a huge blow to his confidence if they did.
Nope, they were in there almost immediately. Win or lose.
WSS
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I'm conflicted on this. On the one hand I see major improvement last week to this week in JM, but on the other hand I never want to see a guy who was playing well lose his job to an injury if he is recovered and ready to go. For the team's sake I tend to go for Josh. Sends a clear message that if you are playing well and giving it all up for the Browns then we got your back. JF would understand it if it was put to him that way. Plus, those fumbles in the 3rd are still bothersome to me.
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I think the fumbles are along the lines of Manziel learning sometimes you just gotta take a sack. Both of them were him trying to extend the play when the pocket collasped (and 2 of 3 last week were the same thing). I'm all for extending a play don't get me wrong (see the icer TD) but even then sometimes you just gotta realize when it's not there. I think he can figure that out though.
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I've been as critical of Sideshow Johnny as anyone on here. But I have to admit he's starting to grow on me a little. We have a favorable matchup next week against Oakland that I believe would be a perfect fit for Manziel to take advantage of. I'd start him again to build his confidence and see if we have a trend starting. I think we all have to admit, the little fucker played like a Brown yesterday.
GO BROWNS !!!
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Manziel came into the league totally delusional. He was going to stroll in without doing any hard work and game preparation and be a good NFL quarterback. Maybe 30-40 years ago a quarterback could do that but not in today's NFL. Manziel is a smart guy and made the adjustments. He has worked hard and we see the results on the field. He is only going to get better with the work ethic and attitude he has now.
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Mack's head is already elsewhere if you ask me
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I'm starting to lead toward you start Johnny at Oakland. Since Oakland sucks, it should give you your answer on him one way or the other. Either he blows it and you know he needs more time developing on the bench, or he is solid and benefits from that last tuneup game before the meat of our schedule.
On the other hand, we're trying to have a good season, and on paper IMO, that required winning 2 of these first 3 games. It's not as much of a must win as yesterday was, but it's still kind of a must win.
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I'm waiting for Tour's analysis but Mack was suspect today. Apart from a couple of penalties, Bitonio looked good. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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The two fumbles seemed nearly identical, too long in the pocket without the internal clock saying, "Get ready to eat one." I'll watch the game again later today and see if that is accurate, but that was my "live" take on it. So the question is do the Browns have a "fumble play" for the OL when they get beat to the QB?
The two fumbles seemed nearly identical, too long in the pocket without the internal clock saying, "Get ready to eat one." I'll watch the game again later today and see if that is accurate, but that was my "live" take on it. So the question is do the Browns have a "fumble play" for the OL when they get beat to the QB?
He needs to just stand behind 5 cones (and maybe one shorter come with dreads). Have a buzzer go off. Then have a pugil stick whack him after 3.5 seconds. He'll know.
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