Jonathan Paul Manziel
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It has worked well in the past - like when the Browns played the steelers last year...
Hoyer ran the pistol last year?
*looks at 2014 game notes*
Son of a gun... he did... 13 times or so in 2014 Week 1... and many in second half as we came storming back from a 24 point halftime deficit.
Week 6 rematch? I see one "PSTL".
Not a lot worked 2015 week 1, cal, so agree with your point that it was not a good basis for evaluating the 2015 "Flipstol", but I don't think tia and I were doing that... at least I know I wasn't. We only used it 4 times in week 1 and all were runs for -2, 0, +8, +1. The +8 was the last play before the half.
Similarly rolling up some 2014 yards and points after trailing big and early does not strike me as a valid basis for touting it's success.
I simply don't like the formation. It seems to me to be a compromise.
I think it hurts both the run and play action compared to going under center.
I think it delays the post-snap read compared to the ShotGun.
On the Pistol's side:
Post snap reads can faster than under center and the drop can be completed faster than starting under center.
It offers a stronger run threat than the gun.
To me it's a matter of what you value more and what areas your QB needs the most help.
I value Play Action. I don't see a QB that needs the limited crutch it offers.
Just my opinion...
Hoyer ran the pistol last year?
*looks at 2014 game notes*
Son of a gun... he did... 13 times or so in 2014 Week 1... and many in second half as we came storming back from a 24 point halftime deficit.
Week 6 rematch? I see one "PSTL".
Not a lot worked 2015 week 1, cal, so agree with your point that it was not a good basis for evaluating the 2015 "Flipstol", but I don't think tia and I were doing that... at least I know I wasn't. We only used it 4 times in week 1 and all were runs for -2, 0, +8, +1. The +8 was the last play before the half.
Similarly rolling up some 2014 yards and points after trailing big and early does not strike me as a valid basis for touting it's success.
I simply don't like the formation. It seems to me to be a compromise.
I think it hurts both the run and play action compared to going under center.
I think it delays the post-snap read compared to the ShotGun.
On the Pistol's side:
Post snap reads can faster than under center and the drop can be completed faster than starting under center.
It offers a stronger run threat than the gun.
To me it's a matter of what you value more and what areas your QB needs the most help.
I value Play Action. I don't see a QB that needs the limited crutch it offers.
Just my opinion...
The Pistol is good for nothing but getting your QB killed.
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The two fumbles seemed nearly identical, too long in the pocket without the internal clock saying, "Get ready to eat one." I'll watch the game again later today and see if that is accurate, but that was my "live" take on it. So the question is do the Browns have a "fumble play" for the OL when they get beat to the QB?
The two fumbles seemed nearly identical, too long in the pocket without the internal clock saying, "Get ready to eat one." I'll watch the game again later today and see if that is accurate, but that was my "live" take on it. So the question is do the Browns have a "fumble play" for the OL when they get beat to the QB?
Those fumbles can only be corrected by seeing live game action. When you go through all of last year, plus this offseason without being hit you don't realize how important ball security actually is. It takes a few live hits to get the "internal clock" and understand when to tuck the ball and take the sack. In practice and TC, he didn't have to worry about that b/c he knew he wasn't actually going to get hit...
Other than those 2 fumbles, he did everything we want from him. I think he'll still be inconsistent and make some poor decisions, but it appears the ceiling is MUCH higher than if we play McCown. With McCown we're hoping for 8-8. With Manziel we're hoping for 10-6, but could easily end up 4-12...
It's risk vs. reward. The reward of playing Manziel from this point forward, IMHO, outweighs the risk, while on-the-other-hand, playing the lesser risk McCown seems like less chance of reward...
Manziel is currently our biggest playmaker, sans Benjamin, and I just don't see how we can keep him on the bench. He is also a ruthless competitor and seems to have that "cutthroat" mentality where he is able to "will" his team to victory.
I'm not saying he's the next great thing, but I just have a feeling this is the best time to get him out there and let him continue to adjust to the NFL game. He looks ready to make plays... not without the growing pains that you see with young QBs... but I think he could have a good season if Flip puts him in the right position to succeed.
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. with the TN game graded and the OAK scouting reports in... the staff likely has a pretty good feel of its size.
Of course....leaving the whole QB thing out of it and looking only at strategy....
1) I would wait as long as possible to announce who the starter is...let Oakland prepare for both....
2) There is now 2 Johnny games on tape and only a few drives of Josh on tape....sooo.....maybe Josh would have the upper hand there....?
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No offense bro, but if he has seen it all and knows how to counter it, how come he has been traded so much? DH
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No offense taken - good question - I guess it is because he has limited skills vs an elite qb that
teams eventually get. Look at the teams he has been with -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McCown
Note - some cool stuff about Josh - he occasionionally played slot reciever for Detroit !
And, when he was with Miami...sorry Josh, but I laughed:
Miami Dolphins[edit]On February 29, 2008, McCown signed a two-year contract with the Miami Dolphins.[8] Prior to training camp in July, McCown needed six stitches in his throwing hand's index finger. He suffered the injury holding firewood as his brother Luke chopped it.[9]
Coming into the preseason, McCown was listed on the Dolphins depth chart as their starting quarterback over John Beck. Following the signing of free agent quarterback Chad Pennington,[10]McCown failed to appear in the team's final three preseason games. He was traded to the Carolina Panthers on August 29.[11]
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Waiting to hear how all the good plays Manziel made today weren't really good plays. I'll be back later
Actually, I'll be the first to say they were good plays.
You guys beat us fair and square today. We began the game extremely undisciplined, committing penalty after penalty. That led to two quick scores on your part, and we never were really in the contest again. But the real story was your defensive line, which imposed their will on our O-line and made what looked like a solid group last week into a bunch of stiffs. Mariota got hit enough for four NFL games back there. Seven sacks? 11 QB hits? All recipes for disaster. It's amazing he still got the two TD passes he did.
And even Johnny Freaking Football managed to beat us, which was our plan all along. Make him actually beat us and he did. He did what he does best which is improvising and our D-line never really caught up with him when it really mattered...on the big play.
So congrats and here's to a good season.
Actually, I'll be the first to say they were good plays.
You guys beat us fair and square today. We began the game extremely undisciplined, committing penalty after penalty. That led to two quick scores on your part, and we never were really in the contest again. But the real story was your defensive line, which imposed their will on our O-line and made what looked like a solid group last week into a bunch of stiffs. Mariota got hit enough for four NFL games back there. Seven sacks? 11 QB hits? All recipes for disaster. It's amazing he still got the two TD passes he did.
And even Johnny Freaking Football managed to beat us, which was our plan all along. Make him actually beat us and he did. He did what he does best which is improvising and our D-line never really caught up with him when it really mattered...on the big play.
So congrats and here's to a good season.
You should feel good knowing you got the best QB in this year's draft without having the first pick. He took a pounding and yet he brought his team back far enough to make the score too close for comfort for a little while. The coaching staff finally helped him when they decided to try to run the ball enough to get us out of pin your ears back mode.
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Different opponent, different game plan. You did notice they didn't just play the Jets again,
this week, right, Tiam?
If the pistol sets didn't work, maybe the Browns just weren't ready to play, like the offense
wasn't ready for certain things and matchups ...
It has worked well in the past - like when the Browns played the steelers last year...
"The Browns had great success picking up the pace on offense, and they also operated well out of “Pistol” sets,"Maybe you should stop reaching for patting yourself on your back so much. You could get arthritis.Different opponent, different game plan. You did notice they didn't just play the Jets again,
this week, right, Tiam?
If the pistol sets didn't work, maybe the Browns just weren't ready to play, like the offense
wasn't ready for certain things and matchups ...
It has worked well in the past - like when the Browns played the steelers last year...
"The Browns had great success picking up the pace on offense, and they also operated well out of Pistol sets,"
Maybe you should stop reaching for patting yourself on your back so much. You could get arthritis.
What in the flippity fuck? Does the word 'sarcasm' mean nothing to you?
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I say you play Johnny so you know what you have in him. If he stinks it up over the course of the season, you know what you are facing in the draft. If he works out, you can use the picks on getting some talent around Johnny.
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Well this has been fun for a day, but time to move on from the win and discuss Oakland and the return of our other JM. My guess is that if he clears protocol by tomorrow, then he gets his job back on Sunday. JF will prepare for the game as if he might be needed on very short notice since one concussion often quickly leads to the next with far less of a hit needed.
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
I will never forget being at the Mo. game in 2012 with the Heisman on the line he went down with a knee injury just before halftime. The crowd went absolutely silent while he was down and then started the chant in unison, "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny" until he got up and slowly limped off the field. He returned with a knee brace and put on a show of TD's like I have never experienced "live" before.
Now on to the next game.
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Sure, but you are so engrossed in your ego, your
"sarcasm" is tough to pick up on.
I'm no football experte', and I really appreciate honest, smart
answers like Tour above, and other guys, like Flugels, etc,
do.
You do too much attempted self-glorifying - it clouds up your "sarcasm".
You seem to know a good bit - to no avail on the board, imho.
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Ah, the reverse jinx-that should be good for a win over Oakland. Keep it going mik.
jinx on double jinx infinity.
now what?
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BTW, it occured to me, that Bernie Kosar was a great fan of being aggressive
on offense.
He would take the first series, and throw a bomb just to let the defense
know that it's "all on the table".
That was a great move - it set the stage for the rest of the half vs Tenn.
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
I will never forget being at the Mo. game in 2012 with the Heisman on the line he went down with a knee injury just before halftime. The crowd went absolutely silent while he was down and then started the chant in unison, "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny" until he got up and slowly limped off the field. He returned with a knee brace and put on a show of TD's like I have never experienced "live" before.
Now on to the next game.
The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
I will never forget being at the Mo. game in 2012 with the Heisman on the line he went down with a knee injury just before halftime. The crowd went absolutely silent while he was down and then started the chant in unison, "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny" until he got up and slowly limped off the field. He returned with a knee brace and put on a show of TD's like I have never experienced "live" before.
Now on to the next game.
Well, we should require that you stay here for the next 49 years....as I have for the last 49....and sit quietly and learn and pay your dues.....before we should accept you into the fold.
But we won't be quite that harsh on allowing you to build up equity.
How long do you think you should wait?
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Ah, the reverse jinx-that should be good for a win over Oakland. Keep it going mik.
jinx on double jinx infinity.
now what?
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Johnny's ass looks a lot better after yesterdays win.
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The fact that some of the most wait and see long time posters/mods here enjoyed the real Johnny Football...............................is exactly why I came to this board. Regardless of where it goes it is one hell of a carnival ride and when it all goes right you find yourself saying things like "amazing, holy shit, where'd that come from, didn't see that coming" etc. It brings the fun back into football for a fan base long on patience and short of having fun watching the game.
Yeah, there might be a wrong turn here and there, but no one can ever take away the joy of watching that little fucker escape a sure hard hit sack and thrown a dagger into the heart of the opponent at the perfect time in the game. Glad you all got to feel it.
I will never forget being at the Mo. game in 2012 with the Heisman on the line he went down with a knee injury just before halftime. The crowd went absolutely silent while he was down and then started the chant in unison, "Johnny, Johnny, Johnny" until he got up and slowly limped off the field. He returned with a knee brace and put on a show of TD's like I have never experienced "live" before.
Now on to the next game.
Well, we should require that you stay here for the next 49 years....as I have for the last 49....and sit quietly and learn and pay your dues.....before we should accept you into the fold.
But we won't be quite that harsh on allowing you to build up equity.
How long do you think you should wait?
Well, we should require that you stay here for the next 49 years....as I have for the last 49....and sit quietly and learn and pay your dues.....before we should accept you into the fold.
But we won't be quite that harsh on allowing you to build up equity.
How long do you think you should wait?
What is the record (not counting Methuselah) for the longest living human being? I'm willing to accommodate.
PS-I waited from age 10 in 1957 when we got our first Heisman until 2012 when we got our second. So at least old dog does not have to learn a new trick.
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So, this is kind of a fun battle. Carr is the QB who could have been, while Manziel is the QB who might just be.
There were many here that were absolutely in love with Carr...I was not one of those people. He absolutely blew me away last year, but it seems like he's coming down a bit this year.Carr won 2014 hands down, but their 2015's are a little closer. As it stands now, Carr has the upper hand ever so slightly, mostly due to the fact the Oakland has been airing the ball out over the last two games (30 att. per game vs. Johnny's 20 att. per game).
Honestly, people are shitting over missing out on Bridgewater, but Carr is physically the quintessential QB and we wouldn't have had to trade up to get him. I was anti-Carr, but he's showing that he might be a pretty good NFL QB. After last week, I have high hopes for Manziel as well, but I'll temper them for a few more weeks.
Regardless, it's kind of cool to see the stats between the two laid out visually.
As a side note, I've been using this tool for my daily fantasy leagues. There's some holes in it for sure, but it's a decent little tool to help with roster decisions. It's also free as shit.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Sure, but you are so engrossed in your ego, your
"sarcasm" is tough to pick up on.
I'm no football experte', and I really appreciate honest, smart
answers like Tour above, and other guys, like Flugels, etc,
do.
You do too much attempted self-glorifying - it clouds up your "sarcasm".
You seem to know a good bit - to no avail on the board, imho.
Sure, but you are so engrossed in your ego, your
"sarcasm" is tough to pick up on.
I'm no football experte', and I really appreciate honest, smart
answers like Tour above, and other guys, like Flugels, etc,
do.
You do too much attempted self-glorifying - it clouds up your "sarcasm".
You seem to know a good bit - to no avail on the board, imho.
I'd encourage you to put me on ignore.
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Beat the Raiders by offensive ball control when we have it to keep him from getting into any rhythm with his team. The more extended the drives we have the better off we will be in keeping him in check. And if the D can do a repeat of making life miserable, he may do some of those happy feet throws. I'd like to see a repeat of Sunday regardless of who runs our show at QB.
This game is key to a very good season if we can continue along that path were the D is sure the O will help when given the opportunity and vice versa. It's what makes all great teams win.
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I recall very few that were in love with Carr here. PoeticG being the biggest advocate.
Stats aside, I think Carr, Teddy, and Bortles all have a decent chance of becoming quality franchise guys for awhile. Hopefully Manziel fits in too, but we haven't seen enough yet.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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