Joe Scarborough
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Norway has the highest standard of living in the World and are socialists.
So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!
So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?
Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...
That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.
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So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!
So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?
Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...
That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.
So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?
It makes their application irrelevant to the US. There is nothing we can do to make our economy as dependent on natural resources as theirs. And there is nothing we can do to shrink our population down to the size of Phoenix. Am I wrong about that? Do you have a plan to implement either of those proposals?Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...
That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.
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So all we need to do is export as much oil as Saudi Arabia and shrink our population by 99%, and we can have a higher standard of living? Who's in?!! Yeah!
So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?
Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...
That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.
So how is our overbalanced consumerism working for us Tupa? You denigrate another country because they have a small population and are a net exporter as a basis of a counter argument?
Imagine that a culture that instead of practicing unbalanced credit based consumerism vs what they produce and manufacture domestically has a higher standard of living...
That makes their appilcation of socialism invalid..... sure sounds logical.
I don't think Toop denigrated anyone.
Just explaining how a tiny and ancient country with huge natural resource income might be OK as socialists.
And who will be the morality csar to tell us what we can and cant have in America?
You?
Jante law?
WSS
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Just because they have a small population and a net exporter does not mean the socialistic application they use is invalid nor the theory of its application on how it compared to our version of socialistic applications.
Two different sets of rescources and populations/cultures are never going to be Exactly the same in comparison. There standard of living according to the formula used to measure each respective country is high. Yes the system is not stressed because the net income versus population service numbers is on the positive side because of net exporting of oil.
We can not conclude where the "stress" point is financially that has a correlary population number. NO system will be perfect, that factor by itself does not invalidate socialistic applications in government.
We ALREADY DO PRACTICE socialism, our tax system and medicare, etc are all forms of social capital redistribution meaning SOCIALISM. the broad brush that is negatively painted about that word is odd to say the least. Almost ALL forms of government practice some sort of socialistic application in order to deal with the squalor and poverty factor. That is how governments stay in power, keeping some sort of control on the unhappy poorer sections of each system. Well maybe not Medieval France and others.... but they were eventually Beheaded by the population....
I am not for a centralized system like communism or something like Chavez is trying in Venezuela and others. There is nothing wrong and really everything right to apply SOME social redistribution in our system. Without that well EVERY government system is brought down low by the unhappy poorer class.
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Thanks for the 9th grade civics lesson, but I never said all social programs were evil or that we should avoid them. My only point was that Norway is not a strong example of anything relevant to this discussion. If the point is that Socialism doesn't necessarily result in doom, then I agree. Otherwise, I dont see how it applies. And from your post, it seems like we agree.
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Thanks for the 9th grade civics lesson, but I never said all social programs were evil or that we should avoid them. My only point was that Norway is not a strong example of anything relevant to this discussion. If the point is that Socialism doesn't necessarily result in doom, then I agree. Otherwise, I dont see how it applies. And from your post, it seems like we agree.
Thanks for the 9th grade civics lesson, but I never said all social programs were evil or that we should avoid them. My only point was that Norway is not a strong example of anything relevant to this discussion. If the point is that Socialism doesn't necessarily result in doom, then I agree. Otherwise, I dont see how it applies. And from your post, it seems like we agree.
most of that "civics lesson was not pointed toward you Tupa".
Yes we do agree.
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Just because they have a small population and a net exporter does not mean the socialistic application they use is invalid nor the theory of its application on how it compared to our version of socialistic applications.
Two different sets of rescources and populations/cultures are never going to be Exactly the same in comparison. There standard of living according to the formula used to measure each respective country is high. Yes the system is not stressed because the net income versus population service numbers is on the positive side because of net exporting of oil.
We can not conclude where the "stress" point is financially that has a correlary population number. NO system will be perfect, that factor by itself does not invalidate socialistic applications in government.
We ALREADY DO PRACTICE socialism, our tax system and medicare, etc are all forms of social capital redistribution meaning SOCIALISM. the broad brush that is negatively painted about that word is odd to say the least. Almost ALL forms of government practice some sort of socialistic application in order to deal with the squalor and poverty factor. That is how governments stay in power, keeping some sort of control on the unhappy poorer sections of each system. Well maybe not Medieval France and others.... but they were eventually Beheaded by the population....
I am not for a centralized system like communism or something like Chavez is trying in Venezuela and others. There is nothing wrong and really everything right to apply SOME social redistribution in our system. Without that well EVERY government system is brought down low by the unhappy poorer class.
Just because they have a small population and a net exporter does not mean the socialistic application they use is invalid nor the theory of its application on how it compared to our version of socialistic applications.
No shit professor.
Nor does it make the fact that Norway is a rare success story a great example of the virtues of Socialism.
Does it?
WSS
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Steve...... socialism and its MANY different aspects and applications has been successful for our species since the dawn of time.
Redistribution of rescources for the collective is what gives us the ability to work in large groups in the first place. Socialism as it applies toward formal government theories and structures has been successful in almost ALL systems.
Communism and other totaliarian forms of TOTAL rescource allocation to a central government is what has not been successful in larger populated states. Too much corruption and distance from the society by administrators along with stress on the system to work adequately and efficiently to service large populations has been proven to be unmanegable.
Norway is a low density state so therefore its centralized rescource allocation stemming from oil profits does not stress the system enough and allows for some ineffiencies and corruption without too much loss of service. that was Tupa's point about how the system is not applicable to our country (not to mention geographical size has and effect on delivery of efficient services from a centralized power base)
We already do perform limited socialism, I would never want us to move toward a more centralized government controlled economy like communism or some quasi system like China has.
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Then it isn't socialism. The lack of private ownership for the good of all, is what socialism is.
It isn't federal programs.
Whatever... Obama is heading down a very, very bad road. Bad for all of us.
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Steve...... socialism and its MANY different aspects and applications has been successful for our species since the dawn of time.
Redistribution of rescources for the collective is what gives us the ability to work in large groups in the first place. Socialism as it applies toward formal government theories and structures has been successful in almost ALL systems.
Communism and other totaliarian forms of TOTAL rescource allocation to a central government is what has not been successful in larger populated states. Too much corruption and distance from the society by administrators along with stress on the system to work adequately and efficiently to service large populations has been proven to be unmanegable.
Norway is a low density state so therefore its centralized rescource allocation stemming from oil profits does not stress the system enough and allows for some ineffiencies and corruption without too much loss of service. that was Tupa's point about how the system is not applicable to our country (not to mention geographical size has and effect on delivery of efficient services from a centralized power base)
We already do perform limited socialism, I would never want us to move toward a more centralized government controlled economy like communism or some quasi system like China has.
Steve...... socialism and its MANY different aspects and applications has been successful for our species since the dawn of time.
We already do perform limited socialism, I would never want us to move toward a more centralized government controlled economy like communism or some quasi system like China has.
Yes we all know that Sev.
Aside from the fact that you think it makes you seem smart to change the subject and then expound on governmental systems and practice (and there is NO pure form of ANY system on earth) Norway is successful mostly because they are rich and small.
Every system of government is prone to corruption and greed.
And no system og government is inherently good or evil.
I personbally don't think the US wants to scale hback the consumerism you bitch about.
I also think the competetive human nature will most often trump egalitarian platitudes.
ps I don't think you're an idiot.
I do think you play the red herring card often.
<G>
WSS
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