Is Haden Washed Up?

Mike H

I had this two years ago. Haden has been overrated for two-plus years now, and I was told I was crazy even with plenty of ammo to back it up.

Homers gonna homer... Lazy national media gonna lazy.

"Lockdown" Joe Haden gonna get bbq'ed by Cecil Shorts to lose the game

ColumbusKing

@vagitron said:
What was the score of that game? Remind me. How many times did kaep go down? Then you can check how many tackles shazier had that game. If he's occupying lineman and freeing up the linebackers he's doing fine. Criticizing Heyward is hilarious. He's one of the top 34 ends in the nfl.

Expect last week you played the Rams.... Two weeks ago you played kaep.....

bbedward

If Joe Haden was playing well life would be great in our backfield, with Tramon and a healthy K'waun.

I hope the "slow start defense" is accurate, but I have my doubts. He shouldn't have gotten a pass on pre-season play.

Mudfly

I dont know that Haden always starts slow.....but he definitely did last season. Was off for the first 3 games(same as this year), then played lights out for the balance.....and then Pro-Bowl....a quick look back and found these exact "Haden Sucks" type of threads after games 1 & 3 last season.....

You guys are turble....attacking one of our best....immediately.....then, probably, licking his balls a few games later.....

Here's one from Sept 22(same week last year, btw) called Haden Got smoked again....by walter , of course....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30353&hl=haden

Here's one called "Haden LOL".....by Walter(again)....this is from 10-5....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30474&hl=haden

And on 10-6(one day later)....here's one suddenly crying cause he's hurt...(Walter again....the next day....sheez)

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30494&hl=haden

And then, of course, he's the one announcing he's in the ProBowl(again)....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31440&hl=haden

And, ironically, here's one complaining that he wasnt selected All Pro....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31550&hl=haden

So, in summary.....we've went down this same road just last season.....whining and bitching about one of our very best after just a few games.....seriously......smh....

Im nowhere near ready to claim he's "washed up"....holy cow....dude is in the prime of his career.... Is he the best in the league???....I doubt it....but he's better than most and Im glad he's on our team......if we attack a guy like Haden for few bad games, then we dont deserve good players....

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mudfly said:

I dont know that Haden always starts slow.....but he definitely did last season. Was off for the first 3 games(same as this year), then played lights out for the balance.....and then Pro-Bowl....a quick look back and found these exact "Haden Sucks" type of threads after games 1 & 3 last season.....

You guys are turble....attacking one of our best....immediately.....then, probably, licking his balls a few games later.....

Here's one from Sept 22(same week last year, btw) called Haden Got smoked again....by walter , of course....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30353&hl=haden

Here's one called "Haden LOL".....by Walter(again)....this is from 10-5....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30474&hl=haden

And on 10-6(one day later)....here's one suddenly crying cause he's hurt...(Walter again....the next day....sheez)

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30494&hl=haden

And then, of course, he's the one announcing he's in the ProBowl(again)....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31440&hl=haden

And, ironically, here's one complaining that he wasnt selected All Pro....

http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31550&hl=haden

So, in summary.....we've went down this same road just last season.....whining and bitching about one of our very best after just a few games.....seriously......smh....

Im nowhere near ready to claim he's "washed up"....holy cow....dude is in the prime of his career.... Is he the best in the league???....I doubt it....but he's better than most and Im glad he's on our team......if we attack a guy like Haden for few bad games, then we dont deserve good players....

If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.

If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.

Furious Styles

Washed up would imply lacking skills and no longer useful. Haden would be picked up by any other NFL team and excel.

Washed up ? GTFOHWTBS !

Mike H

@furious-styles said:

Washed up would imply lacking skills and no longer useful. Haden would be picked up by any other NFL team and excel.

Washed up ? GTFOHWTBS !

You're right, he's a good player and can play in the NFL, but he hasn't lived up to his billing as an "elite" cornerback. "Shutdown" or "lockdown" never, save a game or two against AJ Green that his name is still living off to this day (don't forget that one game he shut down Calvin Johnson on one knee!).

Mudfly

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

If we glorify players based on what they've done rather Han what they're doing, we don't deserve to win.

If he turns it around, hey I'm psyched. But, until he does, I have a right to question his play. Same with any of the other 52 players we have.

Glorify vs support...there is a difference...

And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....

I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....

So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!

Mike H

@mudfly said:

Glorify vs support...there is a difference...

And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....

I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....

So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!

What exactly did you show, other than Haden was inconsistent last year (and he was pretty bad the year before)?

I don't see what you're talking about.

Has nothing to do with "supporting" the Browns, we're trying to objectively look at a football team. Just because you don't choose to do that, doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to enjoy their team in that way.

Joe Haden is and has been overrated for awhile.

Mudfly

@mike-h said:

What exactly did you show, other than Haden was inconsistent last year (and he was pretty bad the year before)?

I don't see what you're talking about.

Has nothing to do with "supporting" the Browns, we're trying to objectively look at a football team. Just because you don't choose to do that, doesn't mean other people aren't allowed to enjoy their team in that way.

Joe Haden is and has been overrated for awhile.

I showed that he was bad the first 3 games last year.....and showed people bitched and moaned then.....and I showed he then played great and made the Pro Bowl...and I showed the people all changed their tune....(so, that is what I was talking about)

I dont know you from Adam, but Im usually fairly objective....and try to be a more pragmatic voice when evaluating players....which means not too far either way....like completely freaking out when someone plays a few bad games....I dont see how knee jerk reactions are "enjoyable" and they definitely dont = objective....though they are very common here....

Does overrated = washed up....?.....Cause I said he was a good player(and so did you....2 posts back)....so, how is it being objective to say a good player is washed up or suddenly turned to crap, based only on a few games....?

And I definitely didnt say y'all cant enjoy tearing players down....have at it bub....there are 20 neg head thread going right now and I aint stopping any of them....just remember I have an equal right to post my opinions too.....even if they dont meet yours....

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mudfly said:

Glorify vs support...there is a difference...

And, sure, you can question anyone anytime....thats your right....Im just showing that we've went down this same road last year and all the whiners were wrong then....

I just think its kind of fast for someone who's produced the whole time he's been here....lots of other players who aren't even close to Haden in production, who are more deserving of this, I guess....

So, as things go here, the plan will be to go after all players who have a bad game or 2.....way to support your team man!!!!

Support != relentless adoration.

I can support Haden and still call him out when he's garbage. I can support a family member and still tell him he's an insufferable douchebag failure. If I didn't "support" him, I wouldn't give a fuck how good or bad he was. I couldn't tell you the exact production of Xavier Rhodes compared to last year, because I don't support Minnesota.

The "plan" is to discuss the Browns and how they are playing - good or bad. Haden, right now, is bad. Kruger, right now is bad. The only good I'm seeing, right now, is Shelton and Starks, because they are both being asked to play 2-gap while our inside linebackers aren't doing shit to fill, leaving Shelton and Starks to both occupy AND attempt to make a play at the line.

Haden's troubles can be directly attributed to this, yes. However, he looked absolutely outmatched on Sunday regardless of the pass rush, which is making me question how "elite" he is. A good corner, sure. Elite, I'm not positive.

Mudfly

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Support != relentless adoration.

I can support Haden and still call him out when he's garbage. ........A good corner, sure. Elite, I'm not positive.

Like I already said....you can say whatever you want.....(but im allowed to counter, right?).....

Though, Id point out that "good corner, not elite".... doesnt equal washed up.....

And Im game to say he hasnt played well....hell, most of the team isnt playing well.....but Im not down with instantly declaring them shit because of it(and thats not adoration).....

But, hey, maybe your right.....maybe Haden completely sucks all of a sudden....we should just cut chase and move on.....

calfoxwc

EXACTLY what Mud said below. Mike H has been known to do that so much in the past - he screwed up the board

with the arrogant knee jerk hate analysis crap of his. Joe Haden just so happens to be one of the very best cb's in

the NFL, and the entire NFL knows it. And x-rays often don't show minute fractures - that's why he apparently is going to have an MRI.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/28/cleveland-browns-joe-haden-rib-injury-undergo-mri?xid=si_nfl

You were washed up around here once, Mike H. And Mike H. - you're no Joe Haden with a rib injury.

@mudfly said:

I showed that he was bad the first 3 games last year.....and showed people bitched and moaned then.....and I showed he then played great and made the Pro Bowl...and I showed the people all changed their tune....(so, that is what I was talking about)

I dont know you from Adam, but Im usually fairly objective....and try to be a more pragmatic voice when evaluating players....which means not too far either way....like completely freaking out when someone plays a few bad games....I dont see how knee jerk reactions are "enjoyable" and they definitely dont = objective....though they are very common here....

Does overrated = washed up....?.....Cause I said he was a good player(and so did you....2 posts back)....so, how is it being objective to say a good player is washed up or suddenly turned to crap, based only on a few games....?

And I definitely didnt say y'all cant enjoy tearing players down....have at it bub....there are 20 neg head thread going right now and I aint stopping any of them....just remember I have an equal right to post my opinions too.....even if they dont meet yours....

calfoxwc

Support != relentless adoration.

I can support Haden and still call him out when he's garbage. I can support a family member and still tell him he's an insufferable douchebag failure TCPO

**************************************************

well, isn't the obvious question - if your family member fell off a ladder, and broke ribs?...

and tried to bowl that night, and was an excellent bowler...

you dismiss them as a failure and garbage?

Come on, man !

Mike H

@mudfly said:

I showed that he was bad the first 3 games last year.....and showed people bitched and moaned then.....and I showed he then played great and made the Pro Bowl...and I showed the people all changed their tune....(so, that is what I was talking about)

I dont know you from Adam, but Im usually fairly objective....and try to be a more pragmatic voice when evaluating players....which means not too far either way....like completely freaking out when someone plays a few bad games....I dont see how knee jerk reactions are "enjoyable" and they definitely dont = objective....though they are very common here....

Does overrated = washed up....?.....Cause I said he was a good player(and so did you....2 posts back)....so, how is it being objective to say a good player is washed up or suddenly turned to crap, based only on a few games....?

And I definitely didnt say y'all cant enjoy tearing players down....have at it bub....there are 20 neg head thread going right now and I aint stopping any of them....just remember I have an equal right to post my opinions too.....even if they dont meet yours....

Played great is an opinion. The Pro Bowl is not the best measure of success. He had a poor 2013 season too, if you remember.

It's not knee-jerk for me to say Haden is overrated, because I've been saying it for two years. Like you said, you don't know me or my opinion on him, but now you do.

I wouldn't consider him washed up, because I think he'll even out and have another "good" but not "great" season.

Complaining != criticizing.

America

Alkid3

Really? Some of these threads in here. Has one bad game and he's washed up. Wr are going to catch footballs. He will be washed up when he falls outta top 10.

nickers

If Haden is suddenly washed up , it wouldnt be the first time...(I wonder about the MRI) but just for shits n giggles.. I think we all remember how quickly Carlos Baerga fizzled.

I was thinking maybe Haden smoked a little too much pot the night before.

Mudfly

@mike-h said:

Played great is an opinion(yes it is....am I allowed?...or just you). The Pro Bowl is not the best measure of success. He had a poor 2013 season too, if you remember.(no, I dont remember that)

It's not knee-jerk for me to say Haden is overrated(didnt say it was....said it was knee jerk to declare him washed up....pay attention), because I've been saying it for two years(well, arent you the bees knees). Like you said, you don't know me or my opinion on him, but now you do.(never asked and dont care...and now you know too)

I wouldn't consider him washed up, because I think he'll even out and have another "good" but not "great" season.(which was my whole point that you just chose to debate...keep up the good work!)

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@mudfly said:

Like I already said....you can say whatever you want.....(but im allowed to counter, right?).....

Though, Id point out that "good corner, not elite".... doesnt equal washed up.....

And Im game to say he hasnt played well....hell, most of the team isnt playing well.....but Im not down with instantly declaring them shit because of it(and thats not adoration).....

But, hey, maybe your right.....maybe Haden completely sucks all of a sudden....we should just cut chase and move on.....

Washed up, to me, is when you're being paid more than your worth. Haden is currently being paid what some people would call "the fourth highest average contract for CB's" but is currently ranked what some would call "121st" in passes defended.

Slow start? I'd say so. The NFL is a business, and when you're overpaid/underperforming, you're hurting the team in more ways than one. 3 games does not a trend make, but after 6 or 7, those talks should probably start gaining some traction.

@calfoxwc said:

EXACTLY what Mud said below. Mike H has been known to do that so much in the past - he screwed up the board

with the arrogant knee jerk hate analysis crap of his. Joe Haden just so happens to be one of the very best cb's in

the NFL, and the entire NFL knows it. And x-rays often don't show minute fractures - that's why he apparently is going to have an MRI.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/28/cleveland-browns-joe-haden-rib-injury-undergo-mri?xid=si_nfl

You were washed up around here once, Mike H. And Mike H. - you're no Joe Haden with a rib injury.

I wouldn't say "very best in the NFL". Maybe one of the top 8, sometimes top 5. Currently top 121.

@calfoxwc said:

Support != relentless adoration.

I can support Haden and still call him out when he's garbage. I can support a family member and still tell him he's an insufferable douchebag failure TCPO

**************************************************

well, isn't the obvious question - if your family member fell off a ladder, and broke ribs?...

and tried to bowl that night, and was an excellent bowler...

you dismiss them as a failure and garbage?

Come on, man !

If I were paying him $11 million this year and $50 million over the next 4 years after that, and there was another good bowler on my team who has consistently played just as good as him throughout his career and is currently playing better than him, and there were other good, young bowlers on my team that were sat because this guy HAD to bowl, and he was never necessarily "excellent" to begin with but just decently above average with some glimpses of excellence, and I could move him to another team in exchange for the chance to draft another good bowler for much cheaper...yeah, I would have to contemplate "dismiss"ing him.

Canton Dawg

Name a better CB than Haden that is currently on the roster?